Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[Tony121]

I agree Tony that possibility of the 2 accused being on Yaba has merit. I to have thought about this possibility. Yaba in Thai means "crazy medicine". There must be a good reason why they call it that.

For one thing Yaba is cheaper to buy then alcohol, or so I was told. So if I was a poor Migrant Worker who wanted to get high, this may be a preferred choice as it cost less. It is known that Yaba is a problem among Bar Girls, as it helps them with there weight, gives them energy, and is cheap and plentiful to buy.

But one of the puzzles to me in this crime was what the 2 accused plus 1 witness said later and when they were not under pressure by anyone. They had gone to 7-11 to buy 3 beer (1 beer each). The also bought cigarettes, but I read in one media report they bought this at 7-11, and in another they went to a different shop nearby. So now I am unsure exactly where they bought the smokes.

Later on in the evening, while sitting on the beach playing the guitar, the witness wanted to go and see his girlfriend. He asked his friends and they to come also buy they said they wanted to stay longer on the beach and drink some more. The Media then reported he went and brought them 1 more beer each. It is assumed that he left right after that to be with his girlfriend, but not much detail on that. He did say he left them at about 1 am.

From a Media Report on their appearance in court, back in December I think, the 2 accused stated they did not do these crimes. This Media Report goes on to say that when asked who did this crime, to not be afraid to tell, they said they didn't know. They said they didn't see anything, and that they were drunk, and staggered home.

What puzzles me is how is it possible that the 2 accused men can get so drunk on just 2 bottles of beer? My Aunt Emma was a Teetotaler all her life and she could drink more than that. Surely if they went to buy more beer that to would be captured on CCTV at the 7-11 store. How many other shops in a village that would be open for selling beer at that time in the morning? If they had more beer at home then why stop at the 7-11 in the first place? Keep in mind that their friend gave them a full beer each and then left at 1 am. The Rape and Murders took place between the hours of 2 am and 4 am. They also never claimed they left the beach to buy more beer either.

So how is it possible that 2 men can get so screwed up in the head after only 2 beer, to the point they can hardly walk home and don't even know what time that was, that they never saw anything, and even rumors from a Media Report that they left their Guitar behind? Unless of course they were under the influence of another drug, like "crazy medicine". So I agree again with you that being on Yaba at the time of the murders has merit.

seriously guys, have you lived here at all, these two worked in a bar and had finished work as I understand it, is not possible that they had been getting drinks throughout the evening probably bought for them by customers, I know any bar I socialise in the staff are generally well taken care of by customers and quite often a few of them will buy a bottle of whiskey between them and consume throughout the evening, what is the point of this discussion - they could not have been drunk on 2x bottles of beer.....seriously

yes I have been visiting here for twenty years and been living here full time for 13 years, So as the scenario you have just given above, is it not possible that the B2 had drinks bought for them by david Hannah or Sean as you said they socialise with customers ? and if you have been living here that long do you not know that yaba is a very big problem here ?

Do a little research on meth murder rape and this crime scene fits, not some Hiso kid who has been turned down for sex

The problem with this meth theory is that it does not solve anything as it can be applied to any suspect or person of interest as a justification to say why they carried out this crime, so yes if the B2 took meth then this would not help their case, equally if the rich kid took it or if any other locals took it it would also then provide a reason. I personally think its clouding the debate

Yes anyone could be taking yaba but you are all looking for a motive right ? yaba explains the sexual side of the attack and the awful way they were killed.

where as your theory is some rich kid who can have what ever he wants gets turned down by a girl and commits such an act,

just because I don't follow the sheep and have an open mind does not mean I am clouding debate,

[SamuiLoner]

If you ignore the idea that there are strings being pulled from high above and return to basics - manipulating the crime scene.

There are some posters who seem to find this completely implausible, yet the world is awash with cases of planted evidence, mixed up DNA samples and various other unethical practices - google it. It is also noted that it is not difficult to do this. (Coffee cups and cigarette butts are a go to example in many articles, for crude evidence planting, incidentally).

Once more, let it be noted that it was the local cops, that started at the crime scene, plus other locals were tramping across it and, there was no forensic pathologist at the scene collecting the samples, as per protocol.

SO forget all the theories and stories, but what is so hard to understand about this??? I don't want you to say, "Ah ok, now i see, I change my stance",

but a SIMPLE ADMISSION that the manipulation of the crime scene is not so unbelievable or difficult to achieve, especially when the correct personnel were not even there to oversee it. Chain of custody as Thailandchili mentioned earlier.

Again, just a simple acknowledgement that the crime scene could easily have been tampered with and evidence could have been planted, as has happened in other instances, in the US for example. You don't need to change your stance.

Your concern would be more concerning if the two were already suspects when the evidence was gathered at the crime scene but they were not. So it is very implausible to think their semen was planted inside the victim along with other DNA collected from the scene only to have police make fools of themselves for weeks accusing others and making idiotic assumptions prior to catching one of this group leaving the island and questioning them.

If the motive was to not make them (police) look bad or to have Thailand look bad or tourism to the island be hurt then this would make no sense as the results were just the opposite and very controllable by police who could have pinned this on anyone early on if that was their goal or could have arrested these two immediately after if they were framing them from the get go.

The evidence (DNA) collected at the crime scene would have been run and reports shared with dozens of people on various computers and in various reports. The only way without them planting these two DNA at the scene initially to accomplish a frame up would be to get rid of all these original reports and eliminate all those with access (including all the techs at the labs) from being able to speak out.

Is there some other plausible theory that would get their semen inside the victim? A mismanaged crime scene or improper collection or contamination would not cause their semen to be found in the victim. Only thing I can think of is the police have lied and the prosecutors and labs are part of the lie in stating the it was their DNA / Semen that matched ... again another fairly vast conspiracy would need to take place.

Good Post John. As usual it make good logical sense, so probably why it will be attacked here.

I looked into the possibility of the conspiracy theory and having 2 scapegoats that many say took there place. But the one thing that stands out above the rest is "Why Bother?".

I mean that if there was even a shed of truth to this why bother to plant evidence, involving several people committing a criminal act to frame 2 poor migrant Workers? I mean a guy like Al Capone...maybe. But 2 Migrants Works who they could have accused the second day after the murders but it took 2 weeks to solve.

They could have swept this under the rug ages ago, if that is what they wanted. Say that they are sorry that they don't have a DNA Match so the culprits must have left the Island already. Case Closed! Just another Unsolved Murder Case which are many all over the world, and by now nobody would even be talking about it.

No! This does not make any logical sense to frame anyone here. It is far more Logical to bury this then frame 2 innocent men which many here have said they have done. Why I now will also get attacked to because it makes Good Logical Sense. ,

This Thai gentleman is pretty well known and has certainly put his "Wedding Tackle" on the line with the following statement. A statement, that I can only assume he knows will not bring a legal case of "Slander", because it would really open a "Can of Worms".

View it on YouTube (with English subtitles, by clicking on Settings and selecting) following; https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=17&v=peaD7E6cUso

[thailandchilli]

yes I have been visiting here for twenty years and been living here full time for 13 years, So as the scenario you have just given above, is it not possible that the B2 had drinks bought for them by david Hannah or Sean as you said they socialise with customers ? and if you have been living here that long do you not know that yaba is a very big problem here ?

Do a little research on meth murder rape and this crime scene fits, not some Hiso kid who has been turned down for sex

The problem with this meth theory is that it does not solve anything as it can be applied to any suspect or person of interest as a justification to say why they carried out this crime, so yes if the B2 took meth then this would not help their case, equally if the rich kid took it or if any other locals took it it would also then provide a reason. I personally think its clouding the debate

Yes anyone could be taking yaba but you are all looking for a motive right ? yaba explains the sexual side of the attack and the awful way they were killed.

where as your theory is some rich kid who can have what ever he wants gets turned down by a girl and commits such an act,

just because I don't follow the sheep and have an open mind does not mean I am clouding debate,

Sorry but read all my previous posts and my theory is not the rich kid. I have no particular theory other than knowing the prosecution case is seriously flawed and the historical evidence of the use of scapegoats in Thailand.

Any other theories I put forward are ones which I consider plausible, whether that includes the rich kid or not.

[GOLDBUGGY]

It has often been observed by researchers that the overwhelming majority of murders are committed by people who have a previous criminal record. For example, burglars become rapists and rapists become murderers and so on.

The B2 had no motive and have no previous record of being involved in any crime.

David had a violent struggle with his killers that is clear on the wounds to his body and hands where he was defending himself. It would have been impossible for the killer/killers not to have scratches and minor wounds also. If it were the B2 surely there should have been witnesses who would have revealed that they saw this on them.

Of course the same can be said about anyone else, Mon did not appear to have any scratches or wounds as we can see from the video and photos of him at the crime scene so I doubt he was directly involved in the killings themselves.

It's been mentioned (by his classmates?) that Nomsod may have had injuries from that weekend, but we'll never know. By the time cops found him, after he'd been evading authorities for about a week, he'd had time to clean himself up and get a haircut. Re; Mon and wounds. I admit, none can be seen on his face or hands, but again, cops don't check such things re; a VIP, particularly those they are buddies with (Mon has local cop friends). Also, clothes cover up such things. Then there are the tough guy friends of Mon (stingray man, bouncer at AC bar, guys who posed with hoes after the crime, and others) who could have been involved in the crime. At least one of them proudly sported a large sharks tooth ring prior to the crime. For obvious reasons, RTP hasn't even looked at those possible suspects. They're all connected to Mon, as is the 'Big Ears' policeman, so they're untouchable.

If this case takes a similar route to the case of the pretty farang girl who was murdered years ago in Bkk, then the following could happen:

The initial court case was found to be full of holes. A second trial was ordered, with a new slew of defendants. All of the new group were convicted, except the mastermind (she must have been rich and/or well connected) ...who ran off to Chiang Rai and is now incognito. The head cop of that investigation, when it was found he skewed evidence, was scheduled to appear before a disciplinary committee. Days before the meeting, he emptied his bank accounts and fled to Miami, where he is today. Thai authorities haven't even tried to extradite him. So it goes, round and round.

Yes! Many of Nomsod's Classmates did spread rumors of him doing it. From reading Forums and Facebook from people who spread these rumors and like were you found this information about him for example.Like here for example.

Nomsod was not required by the Police to give his DNA. He did this in the hopes these rumors would stop and he could get on with his business of studying, rather than having to answer 100 times a day that he did not do it. When they still didn't believe him anyway.

Who would believe him? You have seen what has happened here and how this spreads like wild fire. Even after his DNA proved Negative he was still not believed. You have also seen what happens here when someone even suggests he is innocent, like me. I am sure Nomsod faced that to at university every day and worst than here.

I am no Cop, or Criminal, but if I wanted to evade authorities the last place I would want to hide is in my Dorm at the University, and attend school. You must have read from this same Gossip Column his friends saw him at this University on September 16th. I am sure many people on the Island knew Nomsod goes to University in Bangkok. Just ask someone at his Father Bar.

So let me ask you this. In this massive Man Hunt in which Nomsod evaded the authorities for a week, not one cop thought of going to the University in Bangkok and ask for his home address, or his next class? Come On Man! You are smarted then that. Believe what you want but you are smarter than this.

[thailandchilli]

This Thai gentleman is pretty well known and has certainly put his "Wedding Tackle" on the line with the following statement. A statement, that I can only assume he knows will not bring a legal case of "Slander", because it would really open a "Can of Worms".

View it on YouTube (with English subtitles, by clicking on Settings and selecting) following; https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=17&v=peaD7E6cUso

Yes if anyone knows more about Thailand on these threads and the way these things work its this guy

Currently this is the most plausible explanation of some of the events that led to a coverup.

[smedly]

I agree with most of what you've said, and I do think it is more likely that David and Hannah were together before any attack took place. However, the highlighted section is an improbable initial motive. It doesn't fit any motivation scenario. Kill someone to be able to get to rape someone else? That's extreme, and involves two motivating factors - lust and anger - not one.

More plausible is that a confrontation took place that resulted in David getting attacked. The rest follows. Is it important? Yes, because the RTP assert it was lust that caused the B2 to attack David.

While no-one on here knows, the testimony of the UK crime scene expert could shed light on what could have happened.

yes and any forensic tests that were carried out in the UK, I am pretty sure this would have happened and samples taken logged and stored, DNA samples could then have been taken from the accused and tests run in the UK, a very risky thing for the defence to do if the B2 are actually guilty

Have the 2x bouncers (Mons right hand men) returned or are they still absent

[JLCrab]

Typing error on (now) post #2852 above. Didn't see what went into snip box. Apologies.

But as long as I'm here, according to this report, there are five separate families on Koh Tao alone.:

Spend any time living on the island or speak to long termers under normal circumstances and they will speak of the “five families” that inhabit the island. Three of these key families inhabit and control the main Sairee beach, while the other two have more power on the Chalok side of the Island.

These families, in typical Thai fashion, tend to be incredibly jealous of each other, and highly competitive for every tourist dollar

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

So the notion that there is just one big KT family that will in lock-step protect any member of that family come hell or high water, according to this report, does not hold. One of the other four families might just be happy to turn the kid in for causing them all this unnecessary bullsh-t.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Isn't it well know what type of power a Thai person, especially a VIP, has over their Burmese workers? I believe the B2 are scapegoats. But I don't believe they couldn't have been involved in some capacity. I hate even the thought of it, but they could be involved. I do not believe the B2 killed David and Hannah.. Whoever did that had a specific issue with Hannah, that you can be sure of.

I do agree with you last sentence but the other reason could be they were high on Yaba or ice.

http://www.treatmentsolutions.com/unspeakable-methamphetamine-crimes/

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/29398114/police-sartell-24-year-old-murdered-with-a-hammer-suspect-possibly-on-meth

I agree Tony that possibility of the 2 accused being on Yaba has merit. I to have thought about this possibility. Yaba in Thai means "crazy medicine". There must be a good reason why they call it that.

For one thing Yaba is cheaper to buy then alcohol, or so I was told. So if I was a poor Migrant Worker who wanted to get high, this may be a preferred choice as it cost less. It is known that Yaba is a problem among Bar Girls, as it helps them with there weight, gives them energy, and is cheap and plentiful to buy.

But one of the puzzles to me in this crime was what the 2 accused plus 1 witness said later and when they were not under pressure by anyone. They had gone to 7-11 to buy 3 beer (1 beer each). The also bought cigarettes, but I read in one media report they bought this at 7-11, and in another they went to a different shop nearby. So now I am unsure exactly where they bought the smokes.

Later on in the evening, while sitting on the beach playing the guitar, the witness wanted to go and see his girlfriend. He asked his friends and they to come also buy they said they wanted to stay longer on the beach and drink some more. The Media then reported he went and brought them 1 more beer each. It is assumed that he left right after that to be with his girlfriend, but not much detail on that. He did say he left them at about 1 am.

From a Media Report on their appearance in court, back in December I think, the 2 accused stated they did not do these crimes. This Media Report goes on to say that when asked who did this crime, to not be afraid to tell, they said they didn't know. They said they didn't see anything, and that they were drunk, and staggered home.

What puzzles me is how is it possible that the 2 accused men can get so drunk on just 2 bottles of beer? My Aunt Emma was a Teetotaler all her life and she could drink more than that. Surely if they went to buy more beer that to would be captured on CCTV at the 7-11 store. How many other shops in a village that would be open for selling beer at that time in the morning? If they had more beer at home then why stop at the 7-11 in the first place? Keep in mind that their friend gave them a full beer each and then left at 1 am. The Rape and Murders took place between the hours of 2 am and 4 am. They also never claimed they left the beach to buy more beer either.

So how is it possible that 2 men can get so screwed up in the head after only 2 beer, to the point they can hardly walk home and don't even know what time that was, that they never saw anything, and even rumors from a Media Report that they left their Guitar behind? Unless of course they were under the influence of another drug, like "crazy medicine". So I agree again with you that being on Yaba at the time of the murders has merit.

Either that or they are too scared to finger anyone or give even the slightest hint they know who did it in case of retribution.

Also, if they were high on yaba and had one beer each, they still wouldn't be paralytic as you suggest. if they could barely walk home, how did they commit a murder? Methamphetmine wires you, it doesn't make you drunk. So why would they say they were drunk? Because either they are gulity and its a poor excuse, or because they are scared of saying they know who did it.

Let me tell you honestly. If I was in a Thai Jail for 11 months, and was facing the Death Penalty I don't think anything else could scare me more than that. If I knew would did this crime I would squawk like a Chicken Hawk a long time ago. Especially in front of a Judge who told me not to be afraid and tell if I knew.

If they were so drunk they could barely walk home, is what the 2 accused said and not that I agreed to this. I questioned this with drinking only 2 beers each. By why would they say that? You answered your own question. If they were so drunk how could they commit these murders and rape? There is absolutely no proof they were drunk or on drugs. All you have is there say so.

So since they are probably more scared now than they would be if they knew and pointed out the murders, what do we have left. A poor excuse maybe?

[Darkknight666]

It has often been observed by researchers that the overwhelming majority of murders are committed by people who have a previous criminal record. For example, burglars become rapists and rapists become murderers and so on.

The B2 had no motive and have no previous record of being involved in any crime.

David had a violent struggle with his killers that is clear on the wounds to his body and hands where he was defending himself. It would have been impossible for the killer/killers not to have scratches and minor wounds also. If it were the B2 surely there should have been witnesses who would have revealed that they saw this on them.

Of course the same can be said about anyone else, Mon did not appear to have any scratches or wounds as we can see from the video and photos of him at the crime scene so I doubt he was directly involved in the killings themselves.

It's been mentioned (by his classmates?) that Nomsod may have had injuries from that weekend, but we'll never know. By the time cops found him, after he'd been evading authorities for about a week, he'd had time to clean himself up and get a haircut. Re; Mon and wounds. I admit, none can be seen on his face or hands, but again, cops don't check such things re; a VIP, particularly those they are buddies with (Mon has local cop friends). Also, clothes cover up such things. Then there are the tough guy friends of Mon (stingray man, bouncer at AC bar, guys who posed with hoes after the crime, and others) who could have been involved in the crime. At least one of them proudly sported a large sharks tooth ring prior to the crime. For obvious reasons, RTP hasn't even looked at those possible suspects. They're all connected to Mon, as is the 'Big Ears' policeman, so they're untouchable.

If this case takes a similar route to the case of the pretty farang girl who was murdered years ago in Bkk, then the following could happen:

The initial court case was found to be full of holes. A second trial was ordered, with a new slew of defendants. All of the new group were convicted, except the mastermind (she must have been rich and/or well connected) ...who ran off to Chiang Rai and is now incognito. The head cop of that investigation, when it was found he skewed evidence, was scheduled to appear before a disciplinary committee. Days before the meeting, he emptied his bank accounts and fled to Miami, where he is today. Thai authorities haven't even tried to extradite him. So it goes, round and round.

Yes! Many of Nomsod's Classmates did spread rumors of him doing it. From reading Forums and Facebook from people who spread these rumors and like were you found this information about him for example.Like here for example.

Nomsod was not required by the Police to give his DNA. He did this in the hopes these rumors would stop and he could get on with his business of studying, rather than having to answer 100 times a day that he did not do it. When they still didn't believe him anyway.

Who would believe him? You have seen what has happened here and how this spreads like wild fire. Even after his DNA proved Negative he was still not believed. You have also seen what happens here when someone even suggests he is innocent, like me. I am sure Nomsod faced that to at university every day and worst than here.

I am no Cop, or Criminal, but if I wanted to evade authorities the last place I would want to hide is in my Dorm at the University, and attend school. You must have read from this same Gossip Column his friends saw him at this University on September 16th. I am sure many people on the Island knew Nomsod goes to University in Bangkok. Just ask someone at his Father Bar.

So let me ask you this. In this massive Man Hunt in which Nomsod evaded the authorities for a week, not one cop thought of going to the University in Bangkok and ask for his home address, or his next class? Come On Man! You are smarted then that. Believe what you want but you are smarter than this.

You are conveniently leaving out the clear corruption of justice here, which shows me either you're very very dense, or you're a bonified shill.

if the leading cop tell the other cops that he is not to be investigated (which is what's happening in one way or another) of course he would go to his dorm, anything else would be out of the ordinary, No? You're belief only works if you know nothing about Thailand and how things work here.

Don't bother GB, I won't reply to you again.

[thailandchilli]

Typing error on (now) post #2852 above. Didn't see what went into snip box. Apologies.

But as long as I'm here, according to this report, there are five separate families on Koh Tao alone.:

Spend any time living on the island or speak to long termers under normal circumstances and they will speak of the “five families” that inhabit the island. Three of these key families inhabit and control the main Sairee beach, while the other two have more power on the Chalok side of the Island.

These families, in typical Thai fashion, tend to be incredibly jealous of each other, and highly competitive for every tourist dollar

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

So the notion that there is just one big KT family that will in lock-step protect any member of that family come hell or high water, according to this report, does not hold. One of the other four families might just be happy to turn the kid in for causing them all this unnecessary bullsh-t.

I wonder what family Prasit belonged to, the taxi driver who claimed the RTP beat him and tried to bribe him to be a witness. Mon was certainly not very happy with him and made it public on his facebook page, the post is still there but I cant give the link as its a Thai page

[Thesticle]

It has often been observed by researchers that the overwhelming majority of murders are committed by people who have a previous criminal record. For example, burglars become rapists and rapists become murderers and so on.

The B2 had no motive and have no previous record of being involved in any crime.

David had a violent struggle with his killers that is clear on the wounds to his body and hands where he was defending himself. It would have been impossible for the killer/killers not to have scratches and minor wounds also. If it were the B2 surely there should have been witnesses who would have revealed that they saw this on them.

Of course the same can be said about anyone else, Mon did not appear to have any scratches or wounds as we can see from the video and photos of him at the crime scene so I doubt he was directly involved in the killings themselves.

It's been mentioned (by his classmates?) that Nomsod may have had injuries from that weekend, but we'll never know. By the time cops found him, after he'd been evading authorities for about a week, he'd had time to clean himself up and get a haircut. Re; Mon and wounds. I admit, none can be seen on his face or hands, but again, cops don't check such things re; a VIP, particularly those they are buddies with (Mon has local cop friends). Also, clothes cover up such things. Then there are the tough guy friends of Mon (stingray man, bouncer at AC bar, guys who posed with hoes after the crime, and others) who could have been involved in the crime. At least one of them proudly sported a large sharks tooth ring prior to the crime. For obvious reasons, RTP hasn't even looked at those possible suspects. They're all connected to Mon, as is the 'Big Ears' policeman, so they're untouchable.

If this case takes a similar route to the case of the pretty farang girl who was murdered years ago in Bkk, then the following could happen:

The initial court case was found to be full of holes. A second trial was ordered, with a new slew of defendants. All of the new group were convicted, except the mastermind (she must have been rich and/or well connected) ...who ran off to Chiang Rai and is now incognito. The head cop of that investigation, when it was found he skewed evidence, was scheduled to appear before a disciplinary committee. Days before the meeting, he emptied his bank accounts and fled to Miami, where he is today. Thai authorities haven't even tried to extradite him. So it goes, round and round.

Yes! Many of Nomsod's Classmates did spread rumors of him doing it. From reading Forums and Facebook from people who spread these rumors and like were you found this information about him for example.Like here for example.

Nomsod was not required by the Police to give his DNA. He did this in the hopes these rumors would stop and he could get on with his business of studying, rather than having to answer 100 times a day that he did not do it. When they still didn't believe him anyway.

Who would believe him? You have seen what has happened here and how this spreads like wild fire. Even after his DNA proved Negative he was still not believed. You have also seen what happens here when someone even suggests he is innocent, like me. I am sure Nomsod faced that to at university every day and worst than here.

I am no Cop, or Criminal, but if I wanted to evade authorities the last place I would want to hide is in my Dorm at the University, and attend school. You must have read from this same Gossip Column his friends saw him at this University on September 16th. I am sure many people on the Island knew Nomsod goes to University in Bangkok. Just ask someone at his Father Bar.

So let me ask you this. In this massive Man Hunt in which Nomsod evaded the authorities for a week, not one cop thought of going to the University in Bangkok and ask for his home address, or his next class? Come On Man! You are smarted then that. Believe what you want but you are smarter than this.

You are conveniently leaving out the clear corruption of justice here, which shows me either you're very very dense, or you're a bonified shill.

if the leading cop tell the other cops that he is not to be investigated (which is what's happening in one way or another) of course he would go to his dorm, anything else would be out of the ordinary, No? You're belief only works if you know nothing about Thailand and how things work here.

Don't bother GB, I won't reply to you again.

I sometimes wonder if GB has ever been to Thailand. It is inconceivable that someone who spent time here would not know the realities of the everyday corruption that permeates the culture.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

I just woke up from a chilling nightmare and it is still vivid in my memory. The big heads with the PhD's say we dream and or have nightmares of events we are thinking about before we slip into sleep. Nightmare: I turn on my TV and it opens up to breaking news that the B2 were found guilty but no public announcement and their families not notified. Some reporter on was tipped off and was live streaming the executions in the jungle on Bali. 2 months later another man confesses to the Koh Tao murders. But there is no supporting evidence.That's when I woke up abruptly. Bizzare.

[smedly]

It has often been observed by researchers that the overwhelming majority of murders are committed by people who have a previous criminal record. For example, burglars become rapists and rapists become murderers and so on.

The B2 had no motive and have no previous record of being involved in any crime.

David had a violent struggle with his killers that is clear on the wounds to his body and hands where he was defending himself. It would have been impossible for the killer/killers not to have scratches and minor wounds also. If it were the B2 surely there should have been witnesses who would have revealed that they saw this on them.

Of course the same can be said about anyone else, Mon did not appear to have any scratches or wounds as we can see from the video and photos of him at the crime scene so I doubt he was directly involved in the killings themselves.

It's been mentioned (by his classmates?) that Nomsod may have had injuries from that weekend, but we'll never know. By the time cops found him, after he'd been evading authorities for about a week, he'd had time to clean himself up and get a haircut. Re; Mon and wounds. I admit, none can be seen on his face or hands, but again, cops don't check such things re; a VIP, particularly those they are buddies with (Mon has local cop friends). Also, clothes cover up such things. Then there are the tough guy friends of Mon (stingray man, bouncer at AC bar, guys who posed with hoes after the crime, and others) who could have been involved in the crime. At least one of them proudly sported a large sharks tooth ring prior to the crime. For obvious reasons, RTP hasn't even looked at those possible suspects. They're all connected to Mon, as is the 'Big Ears' policeman, so they're untouchable.

If this case takes a similar route to the case of the pretty farang girl who was murdered years ago in Bkk, then the following could happen:

The initial court case was found to be full of holes. A second trial was ordered, with a new slew of defendants. All of the new group were convicted, except the mastermind (she must have been rich and/or well connected) ...who ran off to Chiang Rai and is now incognito. The head cop of that investigation, when it was found he skewed evidence, was scheduled to appear before a disciplinary committee. Days before the meeting, he emptied his bank accounts and fled to Miami, where he is today. Thai authorities haven't even tried to extradite him. So it goes, round and round.

Yes! Many of Nomsod's Classmates did spread rumors of him doing it. From reading Forums and Facebook from people who spread these rumors and like were you found this information about him for example.Like here for example.

Nomsod was not required by the Police to give his DNA. He did this in the hopes these rumors would stop and he could get on with his business of studying, rather than having to answer 100 times a day that he did not do it. When they still didn't believe him anyway.

Who would believe him? You have seen what has happened here and how this spreads like wild fire. Even after his DNA proved Negative he was still not believed. You have also seen what happens here when someone even suggests he is innocent, like me. I am sure Nomsod faced that to at university every day and worst than here.

I am no Cop, or Criminal, but if I wanted to evade authorities the last place I would want to hide is in my Dorm at the University, and attend school. You must have read from this same Gossip Column his friends saw him at this University on September 16th. I am sure many people on the Island knew Nomsod goes to University in Bangkok. Just ask someone at his Father Bar.

So let me ask you this. In this massive Man Hunt in which Nomsod evaded the authorities for a week, not one cop thought of going to the University in Bangkok and ask for his home address, or his next class? Come On Man! You are smarted then that. Believe what you want but you are smarter than this.

GOLDBUGGY, everything you post here assumes that the police version of events is truthful and legit, on the other hand those that don't agree generally have no trust in RTP and are convinced they are telling lies about certain things

The Police say that NS and Mon's DNA does not match the samples taken from the victims, I am not going to take their word for that but you are, I need to see more because I simply don't trust them

These are the simple clash of opinions here when it comes to police and their so called tests and claimed results - some believe and some don't

[Linky]

It has often been observed by researchers that the overwhelming majority of murders are committed by people who have a previous criminal record. For example, burglars become rapists and rapists become murderers and so on.

The B2 had no motive and have no previous record of being involved in any crime.

David had a violent struggle with his killers that is clear on the wounds to his body and hands where he was defending himself. It would have been impossible for the killer/killers not to have scratches and minor wounds also. If it were the B2 surely there should have been witnesses who would have revealed that they saw this on them.

Of course the same can be said about anyone else, Mon did not appear to have any scratches or wounds as we can see from the video and photos of him at the crime scene so I doubt he was directly involved in the killings themselves.

It's been mentioned (by his classmates?) that Nomsod may have had injuries from that weekend, but we'll never know. By the time cops found him, after he'd been evading authorities for about a week, he'd had time to clean himself up and get a haircut. Re; Mon and wounds. I admit, none can be seen on his face or hands, but again, cops don't check such things re; a VIP, particularly those they are buddies with (Mon has local cop friends). Also, clothes cover up such things. Then there are the tough guy friends of Mon (stingray man, bouncer at AC bar, guys who posed with hoes after the crime, and others) who could have been involved in the crime. At least one of them proudly sported a large sharks tooth ring prior to the crime. For obvious reasons, RTP hasn't even looked at those possible suspects. They're all connected to Mon, as is the 'Big Ears' policeman, so they're untouchable.

If this case takes a similar route to the case of the pretty farang girl who was murdered years ago in Bkk, then the following could happen:

The initial court case was found to be full of holes. A second trial was ordered, with a new slew of defendants. All of the new group were convicted, except the mastermind (she must have been rich and/or well connected) ...who ran off to Chiang Rai and is now incognito. The head cop of that investigation, when it was found he skewed evidence, was scheduled to appear before a disciplinary committee. Days before the meeting, he emptied his bank accounts and fled to Miami, where he is today. Thai authorities haven't even tried to extradite him. So it goes, round and round.

Yes! Many of Nomsod's Classmates did spread rumors of him doing it. From reading Forums and Facebook from people who spread these rumors and like were you found this information about him for example.Like here for example.

Nomsod was not required by the Police to give his DNA. He did this in the hopes these rumors would stop and he could get on with his business of studying, rather than having to answer 100 times a day that he did not do it. When they still didn't believe him anyway.

Who would believe him? You have seen what has happened here and how this spreads like wild fire. Even after his DNA proved Negative he was still not believed. You have also seen what happens here when someone even suggests he is innocent, like me. I am sure Nomsod faced that to at university every day and worst than here.

I am no Cop, or Criminal, but if I wanted to evade authorities the last place I would want to hide is in my Dorm at the University, and attend school. You must have read from this same Gossip Column his friends saw him at this University on September 16th. I am sure many people on the Island knew Nomsod goes to University in Bangkok. Just ask someone at his Father Bar.

So let me ask you this. In this massive Man Hunt in which Nomsod evaded the authorities for a week, not one cop thought of going to the University in Bangkok and ask for his home address, or his next class? Come On Man! You are smarted then that. Believe what you want but you are smarter than this.

How do you know Monsod has his dna tested? He refused to allow the result be public. So, his dna test is just rumour and hearsay.

If he is so worried people dont believe him why not allow the so called test be looked at?

[Tony121]

At the moment there are 3 sets suspects first,

1)Mon and NS, background both extremely wealthy Mon a successful businessman and NS A university student. (Mon is on island NS whereabouts unknown)

2) Sean busker/ barman convictions for having kiddie porn (Meant to meet david on the night off the murder and claims he fell asleep)

3) B2 (who admit to being on the beach the night of the murders even before they were allegedly tortured, and were on cctv)

Then we have motive

1)That the attack was personal a grudge to settle, or loss off face something that made a normal person flip out and inflict such awful injuries.

2) Or that someone or group were on yaba (meth) and did this out of there minds.

[thailandchilli]

At the moment there are 3 sets suspects first,

1)Mon and NS, background both extremely wealthy Mon a successful businessman and NS A university student. (Mon is on island NS whereabouts unknown)

2) Sean busker/ barman convictions for having kiddie porn (Meant to meet david on the night off the murder and claims he fell asleep)

3) B2 (who admit to being on the beach the night of the murders even before they were allegedly tortured, and were on cctv)

Then we have motive

1)That the attack was personal a grudge to settle, or loss off face something that made a normal person flip out and inflict such awful injuries.

2) Or that someone or group were on yaba (meth) and did this out of there minds.

We also have shark tooth man who has allegations of rape before, then there is what looks to be a Thai man captured next to Hannah on the bar crawl the night before. Additionally we have a possible motor bike gang of 4 Thai guys who allegedly mugged two girls from the UK just the night before on the same stretch of beach. I'm afraid the suspect list is rather large and thats without the ones we may know nothing about presently.

[Thesticle]

Typing error on (now) post #2852 above. Didn't see what went into snip box. Apologies.

But as long as I'm here, according to this report, there are five separate families on Koh Tao alone.:

Spend any time living on the island or speak to long termers under normal circumstances and they will speak of the five families that inhabit the island. Three of these key families inhabit and control the main Sairee beach, while the other two have more power on the Chalok side of the Island.

These families, in typical Thai fashion, tend to be incredibly jealous of each other, and highly competitive for every tourist dollar

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

So the notion that there is just one big KT family that will in lock-step protect any member of that family come hell or high water, according to this report, does not hold. One of the other four families might just be happy to turn the kid in for causing them all this unnecessary bullsh-t.

I wonder what family Prasit belonged to, the taxi driver who claimed the RTP beat him and tried to bribe him to be a witness. Mon was certainly not very happy with him and made it public on his facebook page, the post is still there but I cant give the link as its a Thai page

Could you give us a quick translation of what mon said about the taxi driver since you can't post the Thai fb page. Cheers

[GOLDBUGGY]

Also, as we have gone over and over again GB, you talk about motive like this intelligent student planned it all out rationally, whereas there is no doubt this was a crime of the moment that probably got out of hand, so I am sure whoever did it wasn't thinking rationally about all the repercussions it would bring about.

There you go twisting things again.

I never said they planned it out. I believe what they said when they first confessed to this crime to be true. I never doubted that since then either.

The rationality comes in when I heard they just so happen to be drunk and didn't see anything, during the time of the murders. Or finding David's Mobile Phone on the night he was murdered. Like having there DNA match, and being set up by someone. Like having the bad luck of being on the beach at that time. Like having the cigarettes also found by the log matching the DNA with Hannah. Like not having an alibi. Like...the list goes on and on.

[thailandchilli]

Typing error on (now) post #2852 above. Didn't see what went into snip box. Apologies.

But as long as I'm here, according to this report, there are five separate families on Koh Tao alone.:

Spend any time living on the island or speak to long termers under normal circumstances and they will speak of the five families that inhabit the island. Three of these key families inhabit and control the main Sairee beach, while the other two have more power on the Chalok side of the Island.

These families, in typical Thai fashion, tend to be incredibly jealous of each other, and highly competitive for every tourist dollar

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

So the notion that there is just one big KT family that will in lock-step protect any member of that family come hell or high water, according to this report, does not hold. One of the other four families might just be happy to turn the kid in for causing them all this unnecessary bullsh-t.

I wonder what family Prasit belonged to, the taxi driver who claimed the RTP beat him and tried to bribe him to be a witness. Mon was certainly not very happy with him and made it public on his facebook page, the post is still there but I cant give the link as its a Thai page

Could you give us a quick translation of what mon said about the taxi driver since you can't post the Thai fb page. Cheers

My wife is not around today so in Google translate it says:

Blackie . Prasit what you do in the Social as of now you should review with notches in (head), you have enough left in it to make the island of us , you've come livelihood livelihoods had a favorable image . or more You will burn their houses burnt island , why would you create a rift in the island for nothing. With respect to you. ?

Sorry but blame Google

[JLCrab]

Typing error on (now) post #2852 above. Didn't see what went into snip box. Apologies.

But as long as I'm here, according to this report, there are five separate families on Koh Tao alone.:

Spend any time living on the island or speak to long termers under normal circumstances and they will speak of the “five families” that inhabit the island. Three of these key families inhabit and control the main Sairee beach, while the other two have more power on the Chalok side of the Island.

These families, in typical Thai fashion, tend to be incredibly jealous of each other, and highly competitive for every tourist dollar

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

So the notion that there is just one big KT family that will in lock-step protect any member of that family come hell or high water, according to this report, does not hold. One of the other four families might just be happy to turn the kid in for causing them all this unnecessary bullsh-t.

I wonder what family Prasit belonged to, the taxi driver who claimed the RTP beat him and tried to bribe him to be a witness. Mon was certainly not very happy with him and made it public on his facebook page, the post is still there but I cant give the link as its a Thai page

I don't have the slightest idea. Maybe you could check the phone records but of course all the phone records have been deleted per the Headman's instructions.

[GOLDBUGGY]

can anybody identify this person

noms.jpg

I see a young man having some fun and goofing off, just like I used to do at his age. Do you older guys remember hanging a moon? Or Streaking? How about Skinny Dipping? Okay, lets try Wood Stock.

What do you see from this?

[thailandchilli]

Typing error on (now) post #2852 above. Didn't see what went into snip box. Apologies.

But as long as I'm here, according to this report, there are five separate families on Koh Tao alone.:

Spend any time living on the island or speak to long termers under normal circumstances and they will speak of the “five families” that inhabit the island. Three of these key families inhabit and control the main Sairee beach, while the other two have more power on the Chalok side of the Island.

These families, in typical Thai fashion, tend to be incredibly jealous of each other, and highly competitive for every tourist dollar

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

So the notion that there is just one big KT family that will in lock-step protect any member of that family come hell or high water, according to this report, does not hold. One of the other four families might just be happy to turn the kid in for causing them all this unnecessary bullsh-t.

I wonder what family Prasit belonged to, the taxi driver who claimed the RTP beat him and tried to bribe him to be a witness. Mon was certainly not very happy with him and made it public on his facebook page, the post is still there but I cant give the link as its a Thai page

I don't have the slightest idea. Maybe you could check the phone records but of course all the phone records have been deleted per the Headman's instructions.

If you say so

[Thesticle]

Typing error on (now) post #2852 above. Didn't see what went into snip box. Apologies.

But as long as I'm here, according to this report, there are five separate families on Koh Tao alone.:

Spend any time living on the island or speak to long termers under normal circumstances and they will speak of the five families that inhabit the island. Three of these key families inhabit and control the main Sairee beach, while the other two have more power on the Chalok side of the Island.

These families, in typical Thai fashion, tend to be incredibly jealous of each other, and highly competitive for every tourist dollar

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

So the notion that there is just one big KT family that will in lock-step protect any member of that family come hell or high water, according to this report, does not hold. One of the other four families might just be happy to turn the kid in for causing them all this unnecessary bullsh-t.

I wonder what family Prasit belonged to, the taxi driver who claimed the RTP beat him and tried to bribe him to be a witness. Mon was certainly not very happy with him and made it public on his facebook page, the post is still there but I cant give the link as its a Thai page

Could you give us a quick translation of what mon said about the taxi driver since you can't post the Thai fb page. Cheers

My wife is not around today so in Google translate it says:

Blackie . Prasit what you do in the Social as of now you should review with notches in (head), you have enough left in it to make the island of us , you've come livelihood livelihoods had a favorable image . or more You will burn their houses burnt island , why would you create a rift in the island for nothing. With respect to you. ?

Sorry but blame Google

Although not a perfect translation I get the gist. Potentionaly this is pretty important information as it shows mon to be admonishing him perhaps for not towing the RTP line, thus showing his stance in truthfully co operating with the investigation. The fact that this alleged occurrence hasn't been more fully investigated is not really astounding. Do we really expect the RTP to investigate themselves over bribery allegations?

[Tony121]

At the moment there are 3 sets suspects first,

1)Mon and NS, background both extremely wealthy Mon a successful businessman and NS A university student. (Mon is on island NS whereabouts unknown)

2) Sean busker/ barman convictions for having kiddie porn (Meant to meet david on the night off the murder and claims he fell asleep)

3) B2 (who admit to being on the beach the night of the murders even before they were allegedly tortured, and were on cctv)

Then we have motive

1)That the attack was personal a grudge to settle, or loss off face something that made a normal person flip out and inflict such awful injuries.

2) Or that someone or group were on yaba (meth) and did this out of there minds.

We also have shark tooth man who has allegations of rape before, then there is what looks to be a Thai man captured next to Hannah on the bar crawl the night before. Additionally we have a possible motor bike gang of 4 Thai guys who allegedly mugged two girls from the UK just the night before on the same stretch of beach. I'm afraid the suspect list is rather large and thats without the ones we may know nothing about presently.

The thai bike gang could well be burmese there is no way your average holiday maker is going to tell the difference,

were the B2 caught on cctv on a bike ? how do they afford that ? they have money to buy packs of cigarettes, and beer and not the usual cheap stuff anyone know how much a pack of l&m are on koh tao at the moment ? they don't strike me as your stereotypical burmese migrant.

The burmese that come to the little shop at the end of my road have a shot of the local brew and buy a couple of very cheap brand cigarettes.

[minikev]

Also, as we have gone over and over again GB, you talk about motive like this intelligent student planned it all out rationally, whereas there is no doubt this was a crime of the moment that probably got out of hand, so I am sure whoever did it wasn't thinking rationally about all the repercussions it would bring about.

There you go twisting things again.

I never said they planned it out. I believe what they said when they first confessed to this crime to be true. I never doubted that since then either.

The rationality comes in when I heard they just so happen to be drunk and didn't see anything, during the time of the murders. Or finding David's Mobile Phone on the night he was murdered. Like having there DNA match, and being set up by someone. Like having the bad luck of being on the beach at that time. Like having the cigarettes also found by the log matching the DNA with Hannah. Like not having an alibi. Like...the list goes on and on.

It's such a shame all the CCTV camera's were out of action.

Would David and Hannah have had to walk past the log or was there a seperate entrance to the rocky area.?

[GOLDBUGGY]

Also, as we have gone over and over again GB, you talk about motive like this intelligent student planned it all out rationally, whereas there is no doubt this was a crime of the moment that probably got out of hand, so I am sure whoever did it wasn't thinking rationally about all the repercussions it would bring about.

Rape is a crime of violence?

No wonder I get a Boner every time I argue with my wife.

Come on Man! Rape is a Violent Crime, where perhaps taking over the control of a woman (or Man) and terrorizing them while having sex with them may be part of that pleasure. But this is different. The Motive for Rape is obvious!

[Tony121]

Typing error on (now) post #2852 above. Didn't see what went into snip box. Apologies.

But as long as I'm here, according to this report, there are five separate families on Koh Tao alone.:

Spend any time living on the island or speak to long termers under normal circumstances and they will speak of the “five families” that inhabit the island. Three of these key families inhabit and control the main Sairee beach, while the other two have more power on the Chalok side of the Island.

These families, in typical Thai fashion, tend to be incredibly jealous of each other, and highly competitive for every tourist dollar

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

So the notion that there is just one big KT family that will in lock-step protect any member of that family come hell or high water, according to this report, does not hold. One of the other four families might just be happy to turn the kid in for causing them all this unnecessary bullsh-t.

I wonder what family Prasit belonged to, the taxi driver who claimed the RTP beat him and tried to bribe him to be a witness. Mon was certainly not very happy with him and made it public on his facebook page, the post is still there but I cant give the link as its a Thai page

Going Back to motive did you read the section about drugs ?

[JLCrab]

Typing error on (now) post #2852 above. Didn't see what went into snip box. Apologies.

But as long as I'm here, according to this report, there are five separate families on Koh Tao alone.:

Spend any time living on the island or speak to long termers under normal circumstances and they will speak of the “five families” that inhabit the island. Three of these key families inhabit and control the main Sairee beach, while the other two have more power on the Chalok side of the Island.

These families, in typical Thai fashion, tend to be incredibly jealous of each other, and highly competitive for every tourist dollar

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

So the notion that there is just one big KT family that will in lock-step protect any member of that family come hell or high water, according to this report, does not hold. One of the other four families might just be happy to turn the kid in for causing them all this unnecessary bullsh-t.

I wonder what family Prasit belonged to, the taxi driver who claimed the RTP beat him and tried to bribe him to be a witness. Mon was certainly not very happy with him and made it public on his facebook page, the post is still there but I cant give the link as its a Thai page

I don't have the slightest idea. Maybe you could check the phone records but of course all the phone records have been deleted per the Headman's instructions.

If you say so

No -- Boomer said so.

[stephenterry]

Let me tell you honestly. If I was in a Thai Jail for 11 months, and was facing the Death Penalty I don't think anything else could scare me more than that. If I knew would did this crime I would squawk like a Chicken Hawk a long time ago. Especially in front of a Judge who told me not to be afraid and tell if I knew.

If they were so drunk they could barely walk home, is what the 2 accused said and not that I agreed to this. I questioned this with drinking only 2 beers each. By why would they say that? You answered your own question. If they were so drunk how could they commit these murders and rape? There is absolutely no proof they were drunk or on drugs. All you have is there say so.

So since they are probably more scared now than they would be if they knew and pointed out the murders, what do we have left. A poor excuse maybe?

In the days following the murders and before they were arrested, no doubt the B2 would have heard rumours, etc on the grapevine. As it didn't involve them, but Thais (IMO) they carried on working. Their alibi was as normal as it could be - spent a pleasant night on a beach near their lodgings, played guitar, had a couple of beers, then went home to bed.

Fast forward to when the judge asked them if they knew who the real killers were. They're now stuck in an unsafe jail - incriminate anyone, especially local Thais and they're history. Better to keep shtum, as I'm sure most sensible innocents would. Shake their heads, blame it on the alcohol, and say nowt. Hope the lawyers can get them off the hook.

What can they do to prove their innocence if a case is stacked up against them, but 'knowing' that it is false? How do they begin? And that's the reason why they could be convicted, because the RTP have said so, despite not having any DNA evidence against them that can be substantiated/verified/validated. Anyone with the same innocent alibi could be in the dock, even you, Mr Reader, and there's nothing you could do about it.

I'm now 100% convinced of their non-guilt (from a legal perspective) following the deliberate failure of the RTP to provide retestable DNA samples, using excuses that are frankly dishonest, or admitting that there was no adequate chain of custody in place.

Enough said.

[Rykbanlor]

Also, as we have gone over and over again GB, you talk about motive like this intelligent student planned it all out rationally, whereas there is no doubt this was a crime of the moment that probably got out of hand, so I am sure whoever did it wasn't thinking rationally about all the repercussions it would bring about.

There you go twisting things again.

I never said they planned it out. I believe what they said when they first confessed to this crime to be true. I never doubted that since then either.

The rationality comes in when I heard they just so happen to be drunk and didn't see anything, during the time of the murders. Or finding David's Mobile Phone on the night he was murdered. Like having there DNA match, and being set up by someone. Like having the bad luck of being on the beach at that time. Like having the cigarettes also found by the log matching the DNA with Hannah. Like not having an alibi. Like...the list goes on and on.

I didn't mean to twist anything - but you did say it was unlikely an intelligent uni student would have done it, and a how much it would upset his dads/uncles business. The point I want to make is those things are moot, when commiting such a crime in the heat of the moment. Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise, although I can see how you read that from my post.