Becoming something other than an English teacher

[ev1lchris]

I love Thailand so much.

I'm in the States right now and am considering coming back.

The thing is I don't want to stay an English teacher. I'm willing to do it for a year or two, but I really want to move on to something better. Ideally a computer coder.

Are there decent prospects for working in marketing or doing something else either for a company or my own?

[Hornyskunk]

I came from the US to Thailand 6 months ago and tried desperately to avoid teaching, as the salary is way too low for me. For 6 months, I was unemployed, living off savings, and I made a small income of around 15k baht per month writing research papers for college students.

Interestingly, if I had actually tried, this could have been a viable freelance job in the long-term, as I made around 15k baht per month writing 3-4 papers based on other people's research. All my customers were from two departments at one university. If I had devoted my time to it and sought customers at other universities, I'm sure I could have at least tripled my income.

To do this, however, you would need to be a good writer and to have already published some research papers on your own

[MatteoBassini]

If you do not have Thai citizenship then unfortunately your options are very, VERY, limited. Companies can easily hire Thai computer coders on 20,000 baht a month. The managers only speak Thai. If they hire you, they're going to need to hire translators or try to find Thai managers who speak English. And when sending out memos they have to be in English too. Since the people who write these memos don't speak English, they have to hire translators or try to find Thais who speak English. And it's all just for that one farang in the office. It all becomes a chain reaction of inconvinience.

And marketing? Nope. Same story as computer coding but even worse. Other than what I stated above, 99% of advertisements in this country are only aimed at Thai people. Just look at billboards, brochures and TV commercials; they're ALL written in Thai with a Thai voiceover. To be honest, I've NEVER seen an advertisement in this country that is aimed at foreigners.

And I know marketing isn't only about advertising, but unless you're working alone or only working with other foreigners (which isn't possible because it's against the law to only hire foreigners) then you're going to need to speak Thai AND have Thai citizenship.

Don't take this personal, I'm just stating the reality behind the job market for foreigners in Thailand.

Edited July 12, 2015 by MatteoBassini

[thrilled]

There are so many jobs that the Thai government will not allow A farang to do.You either have to stay teaching.Start your own business.With that you'll have to hire Thai's.Good chance you won't be able to work at your business.Or if not that go back to

Your own country.

[zierf1]

I cannot be a teacher. I simply don't have the personality. Wanted to live in Thailand just like you. Took me several hard years to figure out how to earn a living 100% online. I was eating 5 baht noodle packs and living in a sweaty fan room while I worked from sun up to sun down on my laptop. Hardest part is getting to that $1,000 a month figure. If you can reach just half of that, you can live in Thailand as a digital nomad, albeit not luxuriously.

[blackcab]

There are prospects and it can be done. As has been stated though the odds are stacked against you.

I would teach so that you have an income and then apply for everything you're remotely interested in and capable of just to get your feet in the door.

Once you have a job then getting the next one will be easier.

[DogNo1]

This has been discussed hundreds of times previously but for most people Thailand is not a good place to make money. The best solution is to work somewhere that the pay is good and save enough to retire in Thailand. In the intervening years, you could vacation in Thailand as you can afford it. This called delayed gratification. Good luck.

[ev1lchris]

This thread is really depressing me.

I've met some people who were able to move on from teaching, but not many.

[ev1lchris]

If you do not have Thai citizenship then unfortunately your options are very, VERY, limited. Companies can easily hire Thai computer coders on 20,000 baht a month. The managers only speak Thai. If they hire you, they're going to need to hire translators or try to find Thai managers who speak English. And when sending out memos they have to be in English too. Since the people who write these memos don't speak English, they have to hire translators or try to find Thais who speak English. And it's all just for that one farang in the office. It all becomes a chain reaction of inconvinience.

And marketing? Nope. Same story as computer coding but even worse. Other than what I stated above, 99% of advertisements in this country are only aimed at Thai people. Just look at billboards, brochures and TV commercials; they're ALL written in Thai with a Thai voiceover. To be honest, I've NEVER seen an advertisement in this country that is aimed at foreigners.

And I know marketing isn't only about advertising, but unless you're working alone or only working with other foreigners (which isn't possible because it's against the law to only hire foreigners) then you're going to need to speak Thai AND have Thai citizenship.

Don't take this personal, I'm just stating the reality behind the job market for foreigners in Thailand.

I have met people who run online services in Thailand that are foreigners. I don't know if it's legal but they had a mix of Thai and foreign workers.

[rwdrwdrwd]

If you do not have Thai citizenship then unfortunately your options are very, VERY, limited. Companies can easily hire Thai computer coders on 20,000 baht a month. The managers only speak Thai. If they hire you, they're going to need to hire translators or try to find Thai managers who speak English. And when sending out memos they have to be in English too. Since the people who write these memos don't speak English, they have to hire translators or try to find Thais who speak English. And it's all just for that one farang in the office. It all becomes a chain reaction of inconvinience.

This isn't really the case, I know of two different organisations right now (Infinity Levels and Agoda) that are actively seeking senior developers for the 50 - 120k a month mark and that are open to non Thai speakers. Openings at other places come around reasonably regularly.

That said, the level of coders they seek can simply work remotely for western orgs and easily double the higher end of that rate.

OP to be successful at that, and to be able to get employed on anything like a decent rate, you need to put 5 years minimum into it on a daily basis, I would suggest doing so back in the west.

Edited July 13, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[DividendGuy]

DogNo1, has the right answer for you. I know you want to live and work in Thailand at a job other than teaching English, but the hard cold facts are...it is hard to get what you want here in Thailand. That is why you need to earn the higher salaries in the West, invest it in getting passive incomes from your salary and after several years you might be financially secure to live here on a permanent basis.

It is possible to do it this way, but as with everything it requires long-term planning, hard work and the ability to learn about passive investing to get your wish. In order to be successful in any endeavor, you need to put together a plan on how to get to where you want to go in life so start putting a plan together now and you just might succeed.

[blackcab]

Or just arrive and sort it out when you're here. It's OK to do that, and if you get a break then it will be worth it.

Give yourself a year and if you get nowhere at least you tried. I'm guessing you're young enough to be able to do that.

[BlackArtemis]

I felt the same way so I became a certified biology teacher. I am 7-12 Biology, 7-12 General Science, and 4-8 middle grades science. I could tack on 7-12 Earth Sciences if need be. I endued up coming back and working at a job that started off 1/2 science / maths and ended up being full maths. I had a blast and made 3x what I did as an uncertified ESL teacher (just had an undergrad degree). If you enjoyed the teaching aspect of your time, have you considered a maths/science/computer cert and then aim for the international schools that pay well?

I am back in the US for the foreseeable future and am teaching 9th grade biology in the MYP at an IB world school. I know when I come back to Thailand this experience will land me a nice position in a well paying school.

Living here has also let me get some funds together to begin acquiring income property as well, This would supplement the teaching salary.

Find something you love doing and see if it can turn a profit, wish you the best.

[ecline]

Can you find work in the Thai IT industry? Absolutely you can. Pay levels may not be as high as in the west, but they are high enough that you can make a very good living here. Qualified coders and analysts are in demand everywhere, regardless of nationality. I know this because I have worked in IT here in Thailand for over 20 years.

Twenty eight years ago I was teaching English here for a pittance and quickly decided that was not what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I set out to re-learn how to code. Got myself a computer, installed an early version of Linux and spent a couple of years learning shell scripting, C, Perl, etc. Then landed a job making not great money, but way better than teaching. From there things just got better. Now I am a data analyst/bioinformatician working in the molecular genetics lab at a company producing vegetable seeds. Also working on my PhD in computational science at Mae Fah Luang University in Chiang Rai.

How far you can go, not just in Thailand, depends only on how hard you are willing to work. Both in upgrading your skillset and on the job. If you want to get into coding/IT, the hot field now is "big-data" analytics. This will continue to be a big field for the foreseeable future. Data scientists are in demand everywhere. You don't need a PhD to be effective in this area. But you do need skills and experience.

I would recommend to anyone looking to get their feet wet in this field to start taking free-online courses on the edX or coursera websites. There are plenty of intro level computer science, programming and analytics courses to choose from, all for free. It's a good place to start. Of course, this is not s quick fix to breaking out of English teaching. It takes time and motivation, but it can be done.

EDIT

Or, like BlackArtemis above, upgrade your teaching qualifications and branch out away from language teaching. Get a couple of years experience and try to land a job at the international schools here. Some of them pay very well. I envy some of my friends with teaching jobs there. Can't beat the holiday package they get!

Edited July 14, 2015 by ecline

[camble]

I moved here in 2004. Spent a year hanging out in Pattaya before hooking up with a gems dealer. I did all the software for his online business.

[SGX]

I trade and earn AUD and USD , so my conversion back to baht is nice thing . Only problem for me is the hours I keep.

[ev1lchris]

If you do not have Thai citizenship then unfortunately your options are very, VERY, limited. Companies can easily hire Thai computer coders on 20,000 baht a month. The managers only speak Thai. If they hire you, they're going to need to hire translators or try to find Thai managers who speak English. And when sending out memos they have to be in English too. Since the people who write these memos don't speak English, they have to hire translators or try to find Thais who speak English. And it's all just for that one farang in the office. It all becomes a chain reaction of inconvinience.

This isn't really the case, I know of two different organisations right now (Infinity Levels and Agoda) that are actively seeking senior developers for the 50 - 120k a month mark and that are open to non Thai speakers. Openings at other places come around reasonably regularly.

That said, the level of coders they seek can simply work remotely for western orgs and easily double the higher end of that rate.

OP to be successful at that, and to be able to get employed on anything like a decent rate, you need to put 5 years minimum into it on a daily basis, I would suggest doing so back in the west.

I've been going at Python on Codecademy. I'm going to focus on that language.

[Katipo]

I came to Thailand 10+ years ago as a teacher. I was able to move on to other things thanks to luck, networking, and effort. 6 jobs and 4 companies later I am still here. Networking is key to finding work from within Thailand in my opinion, and although it isn't easy, it is possible to do.

Having said that, I have met dozens of coders looking for employment at networking events. You might like to expand your horizons as work isn't as easy to find here as it is at home, so we can't afford to be as fussy. This is not to say you won't find something you enjoy.

One last thing.... presentation is also very important. 'Farangs' in Thailand are judged an pigeon holed on how they look almost immediately.

Good luck

[gandalf12]

I think it is better to live in Thailand but earn your money elsewhere

[ev1lchris]

I came to Thailand 10+ years ago as a teacher. I was able to move on to other things thanks to luck, networking, and effort. 6 jobs and 4 companies later I am still here. Networking is key to finding work from within Thailand in my opinion, and although it isn't easy, it is possible to do.

Having said that, I have met dozens of coders looking for employment at networking events. You might like to expand your horizons as work isn't as easy to find here as it is at home, so we can't afford to be as fussy. This is not to say you won't find something you enjoy.

One last thing.... presentation is also very important. 'Farangs' in Thailand are judged an pigeon holed on how they look almost immediately.

Good luck

I look Japanese.

[mal129]

Can you find work in the Thai IT industry? Absolutely you can. Pay levels may not be as high as in the west, but they are high enough that you can make a very good living here. Qualified coders and analysts are in demand everywhere, regardless of nationality. I know this because I have worked in IT here in Thailand for over 20 years.

Twenty eight years ago I was teaching English here for a pittance and quickly decided that was not what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I set out to re-learn how to code. Got myself a computer, installed an early version of Linux and spent a couple of years learning shell scripting, C, Perl, etc. Then landed a job making not great money, but way better than teaching. From there things just got better. Now I am a data analyst/bioinformatician working in the molecular genetics lab at a company producing vegetable seeds. Also working on my PhD in computational science at Mae Fah Luang University in Chiang Rai.

How far you can go, not just in Thailand, depends only on how hard you are willing to work. Both in upgrading your skillset and on the job. If you want to get into coding/IT, the hot field now is "big-data" analytics. This will continue to be a big field for the foreseeable future. Data scientists are in demand everywhere. You don't need a PhD to be effective in this area. But you do need skills and experience.

I would recommend to anyone looking to get their feet wet in this field to start taking free-online courses on the edX or coursera websites. There are plenty of intro level computer science, programming and analytics courses to choose from, all for free. It's a good place to start. Of course, this is not s quick fix to breaking out of English teaching. It takes time and motivation, but it can be done.

EDIT

Or, like BlackArtemis above, upgrade your teaching qualifications and branch out away from language teaching. Get a couple of years experience and try to land a job at the international schools here. Some of them pay very well. I envy some of my friends with teaching jobs there. Can't beat the holiday package they get!

Excellent post. I too came to Thailand and taught English early in my stay. Soon after I began online marketing. It took me a couple years but I now earn a western full-time income. I am currently teaching myself to code and sky's the limit. Most are not willing to put in the work to success. If you are focused and disciplined, you can do it. Best of luck to you.

Edited July 14, 2015 by mal129

[ev1lchris]

Can you find work in the Thai IT industry? Absolutely you can. Pay levels may not be as high as in the west, but they are high enough that you can make a very good living here. Qualified coders and analysts are in demand everywhere, regardless of nationality. I know this because I have worked in IT here in Thailand for over 20 years.

Twenty eight years ago I was teaching English here for a pittance and quickly decided that was not what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I set out to re-learn how to code. Got myself a computer, installed an early version of Linux and spent a couple of years learning shell scripting, C, Perl, etc. Then landed a job making not great money, but way better than teaching. From there things just got better. Now I am a data analyst/bioinformatician working in the molecular genetics lab at a company producing vegetable seeds. Also working on my PhD in computational science at Mae Fah Luang University in Chiang Rai.

How far you can go, not just in Thailand, depends only on how hard you are willing to work. Both in upgrading your skillset and on the job. If you want to get into coding/IT, the hot field now is "big-data" analytics. This will continue to be a big field for the foreseeable future. Data scientists are in demand everywhere. You don't need a PhD to be effective in this area. But you do need skills and experience.

I would recommend to anyone looking to get their feet wet in this field to start taking free-online courses on the edX or coursera websites. There are plenty of intro level computer science, programming and analytics courses to choose from, all for free. It's a good place to start. Of course, this is not s quick fix to breaking out of English teaching. It takes time and motivation, but it can be done.

EDIT

Or, like BlackArtemis above, upgrade your teaching qualifications and branch out away from language teaching. Get a couple of years experience and try to land a job at the international schools here. Some of them pay very well. I envy some of my friends with teaching jobs there. Can't beat the holiday package they get!

Excellent post. I too came to Thailand and taught English early in my stay. Soon after I began online marketing. It took me a couple years but I now earn a western full-time income. I am currently teaching myself to code and sky's the limit. Most are not willing to put in the work to success. If you are focused and disciplined, you can do it. Best of luck to you.

You are doing exactly what I want to. Thanks for the inspirational post.

[Friendly Stranger]

This thread is really depressing me.

I've met some people who were able to move on from teaching, but not many.

Been there, done that. A couple of guys are making it, but it was luck, and I say, good for them. I day/swing trade online during the evenings when the North American markets are open. It's kind of exciting, trading while out partying.

Back to the topic, I always tell ppl to research things thouroughly, as it's not like they roll out the red carpet, for "Whitey", as you have to really be special to get something on your own outside of teaching or being stationed there by your company. Come with enough savings for a year if you want to hit the pavement or scheme (legally) for something that will at least cover costs. It can be depressing, but it's an experience.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Friendly Stranger

[Berkshire]

Can you find work in the Thai IT industry? Absolutely you can. Pay levels may not be as high as in the west, but they are high enough that you can make a very good living here. Qualified coders and analysts are in demand everywhere, regardless of nationality. I know this because I have worked in IT here in Thailand for over 20 years.

Twenty eight years ago I was teaching English here for a pittance and quickly decided that was not what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I set out to re-learn how to code. Got myself a computer, installed an early version of Linux and spent a couple of years learning shell scripting, C, Perl, etc. Then landed a job making not great money, but way better than teaching. From there things just got better. Now I am a data analyst/bioinformatician working in the molecular genetics lab at a company producing vegetable seeds. Also working on my PhD in computational science at Mae Fah Luang University in Chiang Rai.

How far you can go, not just in Thailand, depends only on how hard you are willing to work. Both in upgrading your skillset and on the job. If you want to get into coding/IT, the hot field now is "big-data" analytics. This will continue to be a big field for the foreseeable future. Data scientists are in demand everywhere. You don't need a PhD to be effective in this area. But you do need skills and experience.

I would recommend to anyone looking to get their feet wet in this field to start taking free-online courses on the edX or coursera websites. There are plenty of intro level computer science, programming and analytics courses to choose from, all for free. It's a good place to start. Of course, this is not s quick fix to breaking out of English teaching. It takes time and motivation, but it can be done.

EDIT

Or, like BlackArtemis above, upgrade your teaching qualifications and branch out away from language teaching. Get a couple of years experience and try to land a job at the international schools here. Some of them pay very well. I envy some of my friends with teaching jobs there. Can't beat the holiday package they get!

Impressive. Yes, it can be done, but as you demonstrate, it's not easy. A lot of guys are simply not as motivated as you to re-learn new skills. And it has to be marketable skills, not necessarily what one is personally interested in.

[Suradit69]

I came from the US to Thailand 6 months ago and tried desperately to avoid teaching, as the salary is way too low for me. For 6 months, I was unemployed, living off savings, and I made a small income of around 15k baht per month writing research papers for college students.

Interestingly, if I had actually tried, this could have been a viable freelance job in the long-term, as I made around 15k baht per month writing 3-4 papers based on other people's research. All my customers were from two departments at one university. If I had devoted my time to it and sought customers at other universities, I'm sure I could have at least tripled my income.

To do this, however, you would need to be a good writer and to have already published some research papers on your own

"you would need to be a good writer"

And presumably have the proper visa and work permit or else at some point explaining your source of funds to immigrations could be dicey.

[Suradit69]

This thread is really depressing me.

I've met some people who were able to move on from teaching, but not many.

Been there, done that. A couple of guys are making it, but it was luck, and I say, good for them. I day/swing trade online during the evenings when the North American markets are open. It's kind of exciting, trading while out partying.

Back to the topic, I always tell ppl to research things thouroughly, as it's not like they roll out the red carpet, for "Whitey", as you have to really be special to get something on your own outside of teaching or being stationed there by your company. Come with enough savings for a year if you want to hit the pavement or scheme (legally) for something that will at least cover costs. It can be depressing, but it's an experience.

'as it's not like they roll out the red carpet, for "Whitey"'

Interesting perception of the skills & qualifications you feel you have to offer ... a pale complexion.

Not too many countries throw open their employment doors to foreigners of any race unless they possess specialize skills & experience in demand or have money to invest/spend. Surprisingly, most countries expect anyone coming to work or holiday or reside within their borders to somehow benefit the country, not compete with their own nationals for work.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Suradit69

[seancbk]

I came to Thailand 10+ years ago as a teacher. I was able to move on to other things thanks to luck, networking, and effort. 6 jobs and 4 companies later I am still here. Networking is key to finding work from within Thailand in my opinion, and although it isn't easy, it is possible to do.

Having said that, I have met dozens of coders looking for employment at networking events. You might like to expand your horizons as work isn't as easy to find here as it is at home, so we can't afford to be as fussy. This is not to say you won't find something you enjoy.

One last thing.... presentation is also very important. 'Farangs' in Thailand are judged an pigeon holed on how they look almost immediately.

Good luck

I look Japanese.

I think Katipo mean't how they dress.

I see farangs in Bangkok dressed like vagrants. Granted they might be on holiday but personally I like to look smart (unless I'm actually on a beach).

[HooHaa]

If you do not have Thai citizenship then unfortunately your options are very, VERY, limited. Companies can easily hire Thai computer coders on 20,000 baht a month. The managers only speak Thai. If they hire you, they're going to need to hire translators or try to find Thai managers who speak English. And when sending out memos they have to be in English too. Since the people who write these memos don't speak English, they have to hire translators or try to find Thais who speak English. And it's all just for that one farang in the office. It all becomes a chain reaction of inconvinience.

This isn't really the case, I know of two different organisations right now (Infinity Levels and Agoda) that are actively seeking senior developers for the 50 - 120k a month mark and that are open to non Thai speakers. Openings at other places come around reasonably regularly.

That said, the level of coders they seek can simply work remotely for western orgs and easily double the higher end of that rate.

OP to be successful at that, and to be able to get employed on anything like a decent rate, you need to put 5 years minimum into it on a daily basis, I would suggest doing so back in the west.

exactly.

if the guy could actually code he would be doing it already.

every talented developer i know is printing money via freelance work or their own companies.

there are so many wannabes out there that talented coders have very little difficulty finding work through previous employers and word of mouth.

having worked for a number of major software companies, most people apply for jobs writing code, cannot code theirway through a simple task given at interview or draw up a simple data model when asked.

Edited July 14, 2015 by HooHaa

[Katipo]

I came to Thailand 10+ years ago as a teacher. I was able to move on to other things thanks to luck, networking, and effort. 6 jobs and 4 companies later I am still here. Networking is key to finding work from within Thailand in my opinion, and although it isn't easy, it is possible to do.

Having said that, I have met dozens of coders looking for employment at networking events. You might like to expand your horizons as work isn't as easy to find here as it is at home, so we can't afford to be as fussy. This is not to say you won't find something you enjoy.

One last thing.... presentation is also very important. 'Farangs' in Thailand are judged an pigeon holed on how they look almost immediately.

Good luck

I look Japanese.

I think Katipo mean't how they dress.

I see farangs in Bangkok dressed like vagrants. Granted they might be on holiday but personally I like to look smart (unless I'm actually on a beach).

Correct, as Sean said, I was referring to how you dress/present yourself.

"Fake it until you make it" ... or dress successfully and have a positive attitude

[SheungWan]

I cannot be a teacher. I simply don't have the personality. Wanted to live in Thailand just like you. Took me several hard years to figure out how to earn a living 100% online. I was eating 5 baht noodle packs and living in a sweaty fan room while I worked from sun up to sun down on my laptop. Hardest part is getting to that $1,000 a month figure. If you can reach just half of that, you can live in Thailand as a digital nomad, albeit not luxuriously.

'I simply don't have the personality' Well, this doesn't seem to be or been an obstacle for many, Why? Because their main objective is to live in Thailand. The career is just a means to an end. If on the other hand one makes the smart move then the career development comes first and that really means doing it somewhere else. Get oneself established and successful and then do the Thailand thing. Even those who manage to escape the dreaded teaching while in Thailand don't on the whole do fantastically better and finance wise are stuck with relatively poor savings and not much else. But hey! Thailand beckons! Life's a beach.......