Your Thainess Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 But... But... But... in Australia! And... Thaksin! Thaksin! Rice scam! Must have been involved... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halloween Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 So the guy has not been charged with anything. Absolutely no reason he should not be allowed to travel. Some are talking about australia, which has nothing to do with Thailand, but in Australia they have to apply to the court to give reasons for a travel ban and the person has an avenue to appeal such a decision. Aust govt cannot stop any witness from travelling, there is no proprty in witnesses so a witness does not belong to either defence or prosecution. Police may say not to leave town but cannot stop such travel. But that is off topic. So the junta have placed this ban on him just purely out of spite. Thats it in a nutshell. The DFAT link is posted above. if you took the time to read it, you will find there is no mention of courts. Appeal is made through the DoFA. There is also no mention of being charged. In fact 'reasonable suspicion' is quoted as a basis for refusal. if you think that police can't stop you leaving the country you are sadly mistaken. I quoted oz law as a comparison with which I am familiar. I expect Thailand has similar and probably more stringent laws. He claims the refusal is because of spite, trying to ignore the fact that he has been part of a criminal conspiracy for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halloween Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Watana has been involved in a number of cases such as the Bangkok firetruck purchase scam of 6.6 billion baht and the Ua-Athorn housing project corruption where 80 million baht was unexplained in his account. He's been in every Thaksin party since Thai Rak Thai and is long considered one of his highest right hand men in party politics. It's very revealing that so many pundits here are obviously unaware, unintentionally or intentionally, of this man's long checkered history. He's scum. . Has he been charged with anything? Is he being investigated for anything? Has any reason been given for his travel ban? I know in other countries a person can be banned from overseas travel for many reasons, but in the less oppressive countries a reason must be given. Will the UK suffice?passport refused/withdrawn from "a person whose past, present or proposed activities, actual or suspected, are believed by the Home Secretary to be so undesirable that the grant or continued enjoyment of passport facilities is contrary to the public interest." Edited July 17, 2015 by halloween Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkk75 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I would like to shake this man's hand. Good for him to have the guts to stand up to these hypocritical bullies, no matter what party he originated from. You're funny. Let's put back the red shirts so the master can make a return and continue to rape the country. Or put the yellows to keep the poor subservient. No matter which party rules neither is good for the country. I'd rather be under military rule to have stability then cycles of unrest that only frighten investors and divide the people. I suggest we use a proxy govt from Canada to install some checks and balance by revamping all laws and govt policies. Wait 200 years until Thais mature and understand balant corruption is no good for all. Then the people can have some form of democracy and be allowed to vote and respect those voted in power until their term ends or there is impeachment whichever comes first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrowsdawdle Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The junta really had the best opportunity that anyone before him have had in Thailand to finally end the poverty, raise the education levels, drastically increase road safety, much less political conflicts, lower the public sector`s debt, lower the private sector`s debt, increasing international trade, infrastructure, but he blew it. What a shame. It looked so promising when he talked in the beginning, but it`s just been talk. Thailand is living in an illusion. He have actually barely done anything, but instead getting Thailand and Thai`s into a decline with more debt from ridiculous "loan-favors" and new bailouts for farmers, when the reality is a more expensive currency, lower export demand, lower domestic market demand, lower demand from manufacturers, manufacturers are paying farmers less, increased retail prices, increased corporate taxes, losing industry-competition with other Asian countries and house and vehicle prices has increased even more. Thailand will sooner or later have to react, but the longer it take, the more suffering the people will have to go through. Why didn't he make everybody rich in 6 months? That should be easy compared to all the other problems you would like solved virtually overnight. You might try world news. There's a few other countries having economic problems at the moment. How intellectual to play the misery loves company card.....not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrowsdawdle Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Watana has been involved in a number of cases such as the Bangkok firetruck purchase scam of 6.6 billion baht and the Ua-Athorn housing project corruption where 80 million baht was unexplained in his account. He's been in every Thaksin party since Thai Rak Thai and is long considered one of his highest right hand men in party politics. It's very revealing that so many pundits here are obviously unaware, unintentionally or intentionally, of this man's long checkered history. He's scum. . Has he been charged with anything? Is he being investigated for anything? Has any reason been given for his travel ban? I know in other countries a person can be banned from overseas travel for many reasons, but in the less oppressive countries a reason must be given. Will the UK suffice?passport refused/withdrawn from "a person whose past, present or proposed activities, actual or suspected, are believed by the Home Secretary to be so undesirable that the grant or continued enjoyment of passport facilities is contrary to the public interest." That's different than being contrary to the illegal power grabber interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linky Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 So the guy has not been charged with anything. Absolutely no reason he should not be allowed to travel. Some are talking about australia, which has nothing to do with Thailand, but in Australia they have to apply to the court to give reasons for a travel ban and the person has an avenue to appeal such a decision. Aust govt cannot stop any witness from travelling, there is no proprty in witnesses so a witness does not belong to either defence or prosecution. Police may say not to leave town but cannot stop such travel. But that is off topic. So the junta have placed this ban on him just purely out of spite. Thats it in a nutshell. The DFAT link is posted above. if you took the time to read it, you will find there is no mention of courts. Appeal is made through the DoFA. There is also no mention of being charged. In fact 'reasonable suspicion' is quoted as a basis for refusal. if you think that police can't stop you leaving the country you are sadly mistaken. I quoted oz law as a comparison with which I am familiar. I expect Thailand has similar and probably more stringent laws. He claims the refusal is because of spite, trying to ignore the fact that he has been part of a criminal conspiracy for many years. It has judicial review as inherent in all oz laws, unless specified in the legislation which the abbott govt is wanting to do. Reasonable suspicion is only to do with national security. In criminal cases the police make a request through courts on having a travel ban, this is done in secret without the accused knowing. Tho i have personal experience in this regarding an ex gf and having worked for prosecution for a number of years. We became aware of her ban because a court officer put the notice on the court file and she had a right to see her own file In criminal cases the police cannot stop you travelling without that court order. If you have not been charged or are a witness you can go wherever you like regardless of what police tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
than Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Another corrupt politician who try to escape Justice........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrowsdawdle Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 And Watana thought he had got away with it, oh dear how sad, too bad, never mind. Got away with what? Huh? Much money! Probably dishonestly obtained. What is your considered opinion? Probably? Opinion not fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Watana has been involved in a number of cases such as the Bangkok firetruck purchase scam of 6.6 billion baht and the Ua-Athorn housing project corruption where 80 million baht was unexplained in his account. He's been in every Thaksin party since Thai Rak Thai and is long considered one of his highest right hand men in party politics. It's very revealing that so many pundits here are obviously unaware, unintentionally or intentionally, of this man's long checkered history. He's scum. . Has he been charged with anything? Is he being investigated for anything? Has any reason been given for his travel ban? I know in other countries a person can be banned from overseas travel for many reasons, but in the less oppressive countries a reason must be given. Will the UK suffice?passport refused/withdrawn from "a person whose past, present or proposed activities, actual or suspected, are believed by the Home Secretary to be so undesirable that the grant or continued enjoyment of passport facilities is contrary to the public interest." Does the UK suspend the passport without telling the person what suspected activities led to the suspension? The argument here seems to be that he was part of the PTP government and therefore dirty, no further details required. That's not how it works where rule of law is applied, but it does seem to be how things are done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Travelling is the birth right of every individual, said the former minister who then questioned the junta whether they were ever taught about human rights. He described as foolish the overseas travel ban simply because he criticized the junta. Birthright You tell that to any immigration office of any nation, that does not like your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Where has Watana been for the last year? If anything the Junta has been consistent in blantantly restricting people's liberties. Did Watana somehow miss the fact that the constitution was abolished along with Thai rights and liberties? I doubt the charged 14 anti-coup protest students would be allowed to leave the country. Why would Watana think he is different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegee Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 So now someone of questionable repute has stood up as well as some silly nongs. The Mickey Mice to the rescue with cheap food or take away... knock knock, who's there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorn Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Forgot to take your meds again? He was an appointed Commerce Minister in the PTP government (AFAIK he was never an MP) how could he NOT implicated in the scam? Well i have looked through all reports on the current rice scam, and there is not one single mention of him..... Is he standing trial? Perhaps there are other cases in process? Perhaps there are, but thats not what i was asking. Halloween, Animatic etc implied they were implicated in the rice scam and part of the Commerce ministry and he was held for malfeasance.. I stand to be corrected but i cannot see anything linking him to any of them. Perhaps a future Govt wants to stop X,Y and Z from travelling because there is some secretive case that only certain people know about.... i presume you would be okay with that to.... He was involved in the rice scam as Deputy and then actual Commerce Minister. No he is not facing trial yet nor does he need to be. I refer you to post #26. Governments have the right to refuse travel outside the country to their citizens, and other countries do so regularly. Convicted paedophiles, other criminals and radicalised muslim youth will/may not be issued passports by the Oz government. If the current Thai government want him to stay here because they believe that he may be charged or required as a witness, they have the right to do so. You left out the important part though. "These requests are called refusal/cancellation requests. Sections 12, 13, 14 and 16 of the Act set out the circumstances where a competent authority may make a refusal/cancellation request." Main relevant circumstances include there must be an arrest warrant out or they must believe stopping the person leaving will prevent injury/harm to another. Doesn't say those authorities can prevent whoever they feel like from travelling for as long as they want without any reason. Edited July 17, 2015 by Lorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorn Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Where has Watana been for the last year? If anything the Junta has been consistent in blantantly restricting people's liberties. Did Watana somehow miss the fact that the constitution was abolished along with Thai rights and liberties? I doubt the charged 14 anti-coup protest students would be allowed to leave the country. Why would Watana think he is different? Because they were arrested and are awaiting trial. He, as far as anyone has said so far, is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 He was involved in the rice scam as Deputy and then actual Commerce Minister. No he is not facing trial yet nor does he need to be. I refer you to post #26. Governments have the right to refuse travel outside the country to their citizens, and other countries do so regularly. Convicted paedophiles, other criminals and radicalised muslim youth will/may not be issued passports by the Oz government. If the current Thai government want him to stay here because they believe that he may be charged or required as a witness, they have the right to do so. But you are making that up..... he has been stopped for criticising the Govt..... Took you a long time to find anything as well, and well you found nothing so made something up. There are other clauses already quoted in this thread which tend to disagree with what you say. Maybe you can post your sources? he's been pulling stuff out his 4$$ in other threads, too - it's not new for him - he seems well practiced at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 He was involved in the rice scam as Deputy and then actual Commerce Minister. No he is not facing trial yet nor does he need to be. I refer you to post #26. Governments have the right to refuse travel outside the country to their citizens, and other countries do so regularly. Convicted paedophiles, other criminals and radicalised muslim youth will/may not be issued passports by the Oz government. If the current Thai government want him to stay here because they believe that he may be charged or required as a witness, they have the right to do so. But you are making that up..... he has been stopped for criticising the Govt..... Took you a long time to find anything as well, and well you found nothing so made something up. There are other clauses already quoted in this thread which tend to disagree with what you say. Maybe you can post your sources? he's been pulling stuff out his 4$$ in other threads, too - it's not new for him - he seems well practiced at it. Pot calling the kettle black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 If he says much more his movements may be restricted somewhat more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rametindallas Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 "the former minister said that stopping people to talk and to express their opinions through the barrel of the gun will not lead to sustainable peace" I bet Suthep is smirking when reading this. It is what the red shirts did to his protestors in 2013/14. Watana is right though as it does not lead to sustainable peace which is exactly why the military had to step in. Well done for inadvertently justifying the coup. Well done for proving once and for all what a brown shirt you are.... When you have nothing of any substance to say, Godwin the thread. LoL . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rametindallas Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 He is right, of course: the economic management has been a disaster ( and mostly unrelated to the issues in China). This will come as no surprise to those who have followed the Thai economy over the years. I have followed the Thai economy and the US and EU would dearly love to have a GDP growth rate anywhere near Thailand 3+%. Who are you trying to kid besides yourself? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZurf Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 He is right, of course: the economic management has been a disaster ( and mostly unrelated to the issues in China). This will come as no surprise to those who have followed the Thai economy over the years. I have followed the Thai economy and the US and EU would dearly love to have a GDP growth rate anywhere near Thailand 3+%. Who are you trying to kid besides yourself? . Thailand is a developing country. Any developing country wilt a growth rate of less than 3 % is basically a basket case. Thailand is not yet a basket case but it's heading there, fast. The EU and the US are developed countries. Achieving that kind of growth rate is much harder.......oh, why do I even bother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvr181 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 And Watana thought he had got away with it, oh dear how sad, too bad, never mind. Got away with what? Huh? Much money! Probably dishonestly obtained. What is your considered opinion? Probably? Opinion not fact. Totally correct and I never claimed it was a fact. Poster Baboon failed to recognise that, it seems. Perhaps I should have used more questions marks for those for whom English is not their first language? Rhetorical question this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 "the former minister said that stopping people to talk and to express their opinions through the barrel of the gun will not lead to sustainable peace" I bet Suthep is smirking when reading this. It is what the red shirts did to his protestors in 2013/14. Watana is right though as it does not lead to sustainable peace which is exactly why the military had to step in. Well done for inadvertently justifying the coup. Well done for proving once and for all what a brown shirt you are.... When you have nothing of any substance to say, Godwin the thread. LoL. Perhaps he meant brown nose? It would be equally as fitting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 The universal declaration of Human rights Article 13. (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state. (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country. Charles Manson will be happy to hear this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobb Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 One reason they might want his overseas travel ban is because he is guilty and want to visit Thansin for protection! e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Watana has been involved in a number of cases such as the Bangkok firetruck purchase scam of 6.6 billion baht and the Ua-Athorn housing project corruption where 80 million baht was unexplained in his account. He's been in every Thaksin party since Thai Rak Thai and is long considered one of his highest right hand men in party politics. It's very revealing that so many pundits here are obviously unaware, unintentionally or intentionally, of this man's long checkered history. He's scum. . Has he been charged with anything? Yes, he has. The lack of knowledge regarding this scum by a number of pontificators is staggering. Full of bluster that betrays their newness to Thailand politics. There are dozens of references to his antics right here on this board, although I did have to look for a number of them in the archived sections. Not sure why the forum does that, but they are found with a search of his name (note: various transliterations have been used over the years). "Yes, he has.", but you won't state what they are or provide links. Why is that? I did a search on his full name in the Thailand New forum, of the five topics that came up, this is the closest I came to finding a "charge": "Also yesterday, former commerce minister Watana Muangsook won an appeal against the BMA's demand that he pay an unspecified sum for allegedly amending regulations to make a barter agreement to pay for the fire trucks with chickens or other farm products. He was initially indicted on these charges by the National Anti-Corruption Commission. The judges said there was not enough evidence to prove the allegations." http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/722616-samaks-wife-pracha-ordered-by-court-to-pay-bt587-million-to-bma/page-2?hl=%2Bwatana+%2Bmuangsook#entry7759438 and: "BANGKOK: -- The Central Administrative Court Wednesday ruled in favour of former commerce minister Watana Muangsook, freeing him from the obligation to pay damages to the city administration over the controversial fire vehicle deal. Watana filed the lawsuit against the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration, arguing against the BMA's demand for him to pay compensation over the inflated prices of fire vehicles the BMA was told to purchase from Austria’s Steyr Daimler Puch Spezialfahrzeug. The court ruled that Watana had nothing to do with the order to have the BMA urgently sign purchase contract with the Austrian firm." http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/722464-thailand-live-wednesday-30-apr-2014/page-3?hl=%2Bwatana+%2Bmuangsook#entry7756674 Two charges, both dropped on appeal due to lack of evidence. Of course lack of evidence doesn't stop people on this forum from stating speculation as fact. I'm still looking for an explanation for the travel ban. Edited July 18, 2015 by heybruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwym Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Tsk tsk... Searching 101. Look up posts, not threads, of the 3 different transliterations of his first and last names in the archived and non-archived sections. It takes a little bit of time, but at least people won't look silly with their lack of knowledge covering the last 15 years of this scum's career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Tsk tsk... Searching 101. Look up posts, not threads, of the 3 different transliterations of his first and last names in the archived and non-archived sections. It takes a little bit of time, but at least people won't look silly with their lack of knowledge covering the last 15 years of this scum's career. Posts? People can post any BS they want. You, by posting claims without any evidence, are demonstrating that. Do you have any credible sources indicating there are charges against him? If so, provide links. If not, you have nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 "Ex-minister Watana faces bribe chargesWatana Muangsook, the former minister of social development and human security, and four groups of 10 suspects will face graft indictments relating to Bt82 million in bribes from the Ua Arthorn housing project. In a bribery scandal reminiscent of ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra's asset concealment case, Watana handled his illicit funds via an uncanny list of accomplices including a maid, a typist and a driver." http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/03/20/headlines/headlines_30029744.php A maid, a typist and a driver ? Sounds like your typical Shin-stained low-life that some posters (for one reason or another ???) like to spend all their spare time defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 "Two convicted and three acquitted in firetruck scandal" http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/two-convicted-and-three-acquitted-in-firetruck-scandal Lovely fellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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