Bush, Walker, Trump criticise gun ban in recruiting offices

[Lite Beer]

Bush, Walker, Trump criticise gun ban in recruiting offices
By MICHELLE RINDELS and CATHERINE LUCEY

CARSON CITY, Nev. (AP) — Republican presidential candidates Jeb Bush, Scott Walker and Donald Trump called Friday for an end to a ban on service members carrying guns in military recruiting offices.

The ban became an issue after a man killed four Marines and wounded a sailor and another Marine on Thursday at a pair of military facilities in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

"It seems to me that if you have military bases or recruiting offices, these are symbols of American might, they're targets," Bush said after a town hall-style event in Carson City, Nevada.

"This is how you garner attention. You go to places where there's vulnerability, and it's a very powerful symbolic attack on our country," said Bush, a former governor of Florida.

Walker, Wisconsin's governor, echoed Bush's position while campaigning in Iowa.

"I think with ISIS now and the threats that we have not only abroad, but domestically, when our military in particular is potentially a target, we need to make sure that in places like this, a recruiting facility, they're able to be armed so our heroes are protected," Walker said.

Attending a state GOP fundraiser in Hot Springs, Arkansas, Trump said the Chattanooga shooting showed the need for ending "gun-free zones" at military facilities.

"This sick guy had guns and shot them down," the businessman and reality TV star told reporters. "These are decorated people. These are people who could have handled guns very easily. They would have had a good chance if they had a gun. ... If these Marines yesterday, the four of them, had guns they probably, at least some of them, would be with us today."

Bush said the attacks should prompt the U.S. to heighten national security and "deal with the rest of the world in a more aggressive way." He said Congress would need to act for the gun ban at recruitment centers to be repealed.

"If the Marines were armed, I think people would've known that, and if they had known it, maybe they wouldn't have come in," he said. "Who knows. I just think it ought to be reviewed, for sure."

On Friday, Gen. Ray Odierno, chief of staff of the Army, said that security at military recruiting and reserve centers would be reviewed but that it was too early to say whether the facilities should have security guards or other increased protection. He told reporters that arming troops in those offices could cause more problems than it might solve.

___

Lucey reported from Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Associated Press writer Andrew DeMillo in Hot Springs, Arkansas, contributed to this report.

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-07-17

[Berkshire]

Typical GOP response...MORE GUNS! Whether it's recruiting offices, schools, movie theaters, malls, any shooting occurs, MORE GUNS!

I will say that if intelligence indicates military personnel are being targeted, extra precaution must be taken, including being armed if warranted.

[Seastallion]

Typical GOP response...MORE GUNS! Whether it's recruiting offices, schools, movie theaters, malls, any shooting occurs, MORE GUNS!

I will say that if intelligence indicates military personnel are being targeted, extra precaution must be taken, including being armed if warranted.

Yep...and using twisting weasel words to do it..."If these Marines yesterday, the four of them, had guns they probably, at least some of them, would be with us today.""

The ban on guns is at recruitment centers...nobody died at the recruitment center.

[sirineou]

There are guns in military bases because they are military bases, that is why they also have military police there.
Recruiting offices are in public places and public places are protected by civilian law.
There is a little thing called the Posse Comitatus act that I guess these Republican Presidential candidates are not familiar with or would like to repeal. Which leads me to wonder what else they are not familiar with?

[Thakkar]

If more guns were the answer, Libya and Yemen would be the most peaceful places on earth.

T

[Thakkar]

I've posted this elsewhere before, but it's worth reminding gun advocates of the ridiculousness of their arguments. It's worth watching in full.

http://youtu.be/HZFLk5L70MQ

T

[geriatrickid]

The GOP candidates don't have much common sense or understanding of their own voting base.

1. There are a large number of Americans who see a conspiracy in everything and who would freak out at the sight of armed US military personnel off base. These are the wackos who follow the Alex Jones - Info Wars & Tea Party lunatics. Recently, Americans were treated to claims of the US military planning a coup because there was a large scale training exercise in Texas and in Alberta.

2. Guns in a recruiting center would upset the sales image the military recruiters try to project. Join up for the education, training, opportunity to travel etc. Bothing is mentioned about coming back in a body bag. Parents often accompany their teenagers to the recruiting offices. Some parents might have second thoughts when seeing open carry weapons.

3. Having weapons might result in more violence, particularly when people lose their tempers.

4. Recruiting offices are usually in high traffic in retail spaces. Most mall owners forbid visible carry weapons on their premises.(Some of the most important recruiting regions are CA, WA, IL, NJ, NY, MA and there are licensing requirements. Recruiters are not law enforcement and they would need to obtain licenses.

Having guns would not have helped. The assailant did not enter the premises. He fired and ran.

Edited July 18, 2015 by geriatrickid

[Steely Dan]

The issue boils down to one key question. Are recruitment offices for the military considered legitimate targets to terrorists? If the answer is yes then having arms present there seems like a common sense precaution. The handicapping of a nations defense forces does seem to be a longstanding progressive tradition, sadly this seems to extend even to centers of recruiting, though it gives ample warning of what to expect by way of restrictive rules of engagement in war zones.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Steely Dan

[bendejo]

I love this stuff. Competing to be the greater fool, courting the whacko vote.

Has Obama completed the Federal occupation of Texas yet, or are they still camped out in those tunnels connecting the Walmarts?

[JDGRUEN]

My opinion for what it is worth...

Absolute insanity ... and has been since before the Ft. Hood killings, then again at the Virginia Navy Yard.

There is no justification for leaving military personnel unarmed. They are trained in arms for heavens sake.

Back in the day... The Army paymaster often a 2nd Lieutenant carried .45 Army issue pistol holstered on his hip. The jeep driver often has a rifle and the paymasters assistant carried a side arm. The same for the rotating CQ - -Charge of Quarters in an Army Barracks or important office such as the Personnel Office where Administrative disagreements could possibly arise. The MP's at the gate were armed with rifles -- if not loaded the ammo was very nearby .

There was no reason for the change - just political will of the namby pamby set. These rules are obviously risking the lives of our military.

Considering the open ISIS threats to kill U.S. Military personnel - it is now IMO a CRIMINAL act to continue to prevent our military from defending themselves.

It doesn't take a wholesale allowance of all military personnel to become armed to solve this problem. But each military installation should have a quick reaction center or many centers where arms and ammo are stored. Plus select military personnel should be positioned in each office -- even recruiting offices - if not with open carry weapons - at least with concealed carry weapons. These people could be reviewed, vetted and given training on proper behavior and when to use armed force. Most already know... There are thousands of Concealed Carry trainers with training materials who could be brought in to update the training and instruction on cautionary use of guns.

I strongly suspect when a Conservative or other sensible person wins the White House all this idiocy will change. A President Trump or Cruz will see to it.

Right now -- Obama and his Administration just stand by and watch our military get shot and killed in America - year after year and do nothing to allow the military to even be selectively armed... nothing.

But the Arkansas Governor is doing something .... (Note -- the National Guard and Military Reserves have many full time military to run the part time program.)

Ark. Governor authorizes National Guard to "arm full-time military personnel"

http://www.kait8.com/story/29575959/ark-governor-authorizes-national-guard-to-arm-full-time-military-personnel

[chuckd]

Typical GOP response...MORE GUNS! Whether it's recruiting offices, schools, movie theaters, malls, any shooting occurs, MORE GUNS!

I will say that if intelligence indicates military personnel are being targeted, extra precaution must be taken, including being armed if warranted.

Yep...and using twisting weasel words to do it..."If these Marines yesterday, the four of them, had guns they probably, at least some of them, would be with us today.""

The ban on guns is at recruitment centers...nobody died at the recruitment center.

"The ban on guns is at recruitment centers...nobody died at the recruitment center.

The ban on guns is at any federal DOD facility, including military bases and recruitment facilities.

Department of Defense (DOD) directive 5210.56 issued on 25 February 1992 states only the following are permitted to carry weapons on military bases:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Authorizes DoD personnel to carry firearms while engaged

in law enforcement or security duties, protecting personnel,

vital Government assets, or guarding prisoners.

The DOD Directive is here: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a272176.pdf#page=3

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[MaxYakov]

If more guns were the answer, Libya and Yemen would be the most peaceful places on earth.

T

Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Afghanistan, Israel ... too many to list, huh?

[MaxYakov]

The issue boils down to one key question. Are recruitment offices for the military considered legitimate targets to terrorists? If the answer is yes then having arms present there seems like a common sense precaution. The handicapping of a nations defense forces does seem to be a longstanding progressive tradition, sadly this seems to extend even to centers of recruiting, though it gives ample warning of what to expect by way of restrictive rules of engagement in war zones.

You lost me with the "... considered legitimate targets for terrorists?". Are there any "illegitimate targets for terrorists"?

It wouldn't surprise me if he was ordered by ISIS to attack those recruitment centers, based on intelligence they had and what they thought the he could reasonably accomplish and to specifically both attempt to terrorize US servicemen and women and as a revenge for the air campaign. They had only one individual with limited weaponry (allegedly an AK-47) so they selected soft targets.

IMHO, these people are psychotic and don't think like we do (most of us, that is). They send murderers on suicide missions akin to the Kamikazis of WW II.

Desperation.

Edited July 18, 2015 by MaxYakov

[Publicus]

Well I unsuccessfully tried to publish an AP photo of the recruiting center in Times Square NYC guarded full time by four NYPD cops and dog but somehow it is deemed not suitable for this community. I can say the civil police security in the AP photo looks good to any American, if not to foreigners abroad.

So here for anyone who might be interested is the link to the AP photo and the photo caption: http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2015/07/17/army-chief-security-at-recruiting-posts-will-be-reviewed Officers with the NYPD anti-terrorism unit guard a military recruiting station in Times Square, Friday, July 17, 2015, in New York. Security at military recruiting and reserve centers will be reviewed in the aftermath of a deadly shooting in Tennessee. (AP Photo/Bebeto Matthews)

In a small town with few local cops the PD could put an auxiliary cop across the street in rotation or some such. A city such as Chattanooga, where I myself had spent some time while in Atlanta, could put a cop at the recruiting center or closeby full time.

This is in a sharp contrast to the Ozark governor of Arkansas who said today places in the United States without guns are the most dangerous places of all. Does this governor welcome visitors to his office with a shotgun set in his bosom? This guy sounds like he can't be too safe

Problems do arise such as the recruiting center in San Diego which is next to a bakery, noodle shop, hair stylist. And what does a military recruiter do if there's a bank across the street being robbed....the Posse Comitatus Act says he can do nothing.

The Posse Comitatus Act puts the county sheriff in charge anyway while it specifically says the military cannot be used for domestic law enforcement without authorization of the Congress and POTUS and very specifically, narrowly, in the circumstance of a national emergency, and for a limited purpose; period of time.

My Army daze (sic) permanent duty station was in the middle of built up Arlington County VA across the Potomac from Washington and next to the Pentagon where no one on post carried a firearm, to include the MPs at the gates which were constantly flowing with civilian and military traffic that the MPs had to keep moving given the highway outside the two main gates. Post access was unrestricted.

Then there are the isolated Army outposts such as Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri (Fort Lost in the Woods Misery) a terrorist couldn't find with GPS and a helicopter. General Ray Odierno the Army chief of staff (its commanding general) who had been US commander in Iraq suggests he doesn't want the cities in the United States with recruiters in 'em to look like the streets of Fallujah.

Sounds right.

[sirineou]

It is absolutely hilarious that the Gun-nutters/conservative-un-conservatives want their guns/toys to defend against tyrannical government, then in the same breath they want to repeal/ subvert, the Posse Comitatus act

But that does not surprise me much, schizophrenia seems to be Modus Operandi of the far right, they want less power to the Federal government and less interference in our daily lives, and then they want the government involved, in who marries whom, reproductive rights, end of life rights , etc

sad very sad

[up-country_sinclair]

Two service members in every recruitment office should be armed. Firstly to defend against attacks like the one mentioned in the original post and secondly, having two armed would be a good defense if one went crazy and started shooting people.

[beechguy]

Typical GOP response...MORE GUNS! Whether it's recruiting offices, schools, movie theaters, malls, any shooting occurs, MORE GUNS!

I will say that if intelligence indicates military personnel are being targeted, extra precaution must be taken, including being armed if warranted.

Yep...and using twisting weasel words to do it..."If these Marines yesterday, the four of them, had guns they probably, at least some of them, would be with us today.""

The ban on guns is at recruitment centers...nobody died at the recruitment center.

True, nobody died at the Recruitment Center, but it wasn't from lack of trying. Look at the location of the shell casings, the only reason nobody died, is that it was a poorly executed attack. Police estimate 25-30 rounds were fired.

[beechguy]

It is absolutely hilarious that the Gun-nutters/conservative-un-conservatives want their guns/toys to defend against tyrannical government, then in the same breath they want to repeal/ subvert, the Posse Comitatus act

But that does not surprise me much, schizophrenia seems to be Modus Operandi of the far right, they want less power to the Federal government and less interference in our daily lives, and then they want the government involved, in who marries whom, reproductive rights, end of life rights , etc

sad very sad

Nobody said anything about subverting Posse Comitatus act, but I suppose that's what happens when you don't understand it.

If anyone is being dishonest, it would be the Liberal liars on the left. They claim not to have a problem with gun owners who are trained, and have submitted to background checks. I can't think of anyone more trained than military veterans, and yes, they most certainly do submit to background checks. People wonder why we can't have better gun control laws, it's because the Looney Left can't be depended on, to keep their word, and they will always go for more.

I just read that a fifth victim has died, condolences to all of their families, and friends.

[sirineou]

It is absolutely hilarious that the Gun-nutters/conservative-un-conservatives want their guns/toys to defend against tyrannical government, then in the same breath they want to repeal/ subvert, the Posse Comitatus act

But that does not surprise me much, schizophrenia seems to be Modus Operandi of the far right, they want less power to the Federal government and less interference in our daily lives, and then they want the government involved, in who marries whom, reproductive rights, end of life rights , etc

sad very sad

Nobody said anything about subverting Posse Comitatus act, but I suppose that's what happens when you don't understand it.

If anyone is being dishonest, it would be the Liberal liars on the left. They claim not to have a problem with gun owners who are trained, and have submitted to background checks. I can't think of anyone more trained than military veterans, and yes, they most certainly do submit to background checks. People wonder why we can't have better gun control laws, it's because the Looney Left can't be depended on, to keep their word, and they will always go for more.

I just read that a fifth victim has died, condolences to all of their families, and friends.

"The original Posse Comitatus Act referred essentially to the United States Army. The United States Air Force was added in 1956, and the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps have been included by a regulation of the United States Department of Defense. This law is often relied upon to prevent the Department of Defense from interfering in domestic law enforcement."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

We see how well it worked out for Thailand and other countries when the military is allowed from interfering in domestic law enforcement. The US has adequate law enforcement agencies to protect it's citizens, we don't need to arm the military in civilian places. If the military does not feel that civilian law enforcement agencies and or the national guard can keep them safe, , they need to conduct their business in army basses or National Guard armories.

Edited July 18, 2015 by sirineou

[bendejo]

Two service members in every recruitment office should be armed. Firstly to defend against attacks like the one mentioned in the original post and secondly, having two armed would be a good defense if one went crazy and started shooting people.

When a military establishment has to be concerned that their own may freak out and start killing people (outside of a battle environment) then there is something very wrong in the organization.

[Andaman Al]

Two service members in every recruitment office should be armed. Firstly to defend against attacks like the one mentioned in the original post and secondly, having two armed would be a good defense if one went crazy and started shooting people.

When a military establishment has to be concerned that their own may freak out and start killing people (outside of a battle environment) then there is something very wrong in the organization.

Exactly!

God forbid they both go crazy Up-Country

[Thorgal]

Perhaps the Posse Comitatus Act can be superseded by the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) who was created in 2012 under Obama administration.

The Act gives US governors the ability to request the help of military reservists in the event of a terrorist attack, or other disaster.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012

I'm surprised that the military anti-terrorism drill Jade Helm 15 active in other states -who started one day before the attack- didn't interact or took position in this case...

Even so, the 3 amigos from OP should be aware of the extend of Jade Helm 15 in the future without changing any gun law extent.

A lot will change after 15th of September 2015 in the US...

Edited July 18, 2015 by Thorgal

[sirineou]

Perhaps the Posse Comitatus Act can be superseded by the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) who was created in 2012 under Obama administration.

The Act gives US governors the ability to request the help of military reservists in the event of a terrorist attack, or other disaster.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012

I'm surprised that the military anti-terrorism drill Jade Helm 15 active in other states -who started one day before the attack- didn't interact or took position in this case...

it can be suspended in response to an individual act in a particular situation,

For instance if there was an event that civilian agencies were unable to deal with. and when this event was resolved it goes back to status quo .

Protecting armed forces personal at a requiting office located in a mall firstly can be accomplished my existing civilian agencies. Arming military personal to deal with this would be an open ended event with no foreseeable end.

How about Paul Bart? he could do the job

[chuckd]

It is absolutely hilarious that the Gun-nutters/conservative-un-conservatives want their guns/toys to defend against tyrannical government, then in the same breath they want to repeal/ subvert, the Posse Comitatus act

But that does not surprise me much, schizophrenia seems to be Modus Operandi of the far right, they want less power to the Federal government and less interference in our daily lives, and then they want the government involved, in who marries whom, reproductive rights, end of life rights , etc

sad very sad

Nobody said anything about subverting Posse Comitatus act, but I suppose that's what happens when you don't understand it.

If anyone is being dishonest, it would be the Liberal liars on the left. They claim not to have a problem with gun owners who are trained, and have submitted to background checks. I can't think of anyone more trained than military veterans, and yes, they most certainly do submit to background checks. People wonder why we can't have better gun control laws, it's because the Looney Left can't be depended on, to keep their word, and they will always go for more.

I just read that a fifth victim has died, condolences to all of their families, and friends.

"The original Posse Comitatus Act referred essentially to the United States Army. The United States Air Force was added in 1956, and the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps have been included by a regulation of the United States Department of Defense. This law is often relied upon to prevent the Department of Defense from interfering in domestic law enforcement."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

We see how well it worked out for Thailand and other countries when the military is allowed from interfering in domestic law enforcement. The US has adequate law enforcement agencies to protect it's citizens, we don't need to arm the military in civilian places. If the military does not feel that civilian law enforcement agencies and or the national guard can keep them safe, , they need to conduct their business in army basses or National Guard armories.

If the service members are armed and protecting their own lives, it would hardly be called Posse Comitatus.

It's called self defense.

Saving your own life would not be classified as interfering in domestic law enforcement.

[beechguy]

It is absolutely hilarious that the Gun-nutters/conservative-un-conservatives want their guns/toys to defend against tyrannical government, then in the same breath they want to repeal/ subvert, the Posse Comitatus act

But that does not surprise me much, schizophrenia seems to be Modus Operandi of the far right, they want less power to the Federal government and less interference in our daily lives, and then they want the government involved, in who marries whom, reproductive rights, end of life rights , etc

sad very sad

Nobody said anything about subverting Posse Comitatus act, but I suppose that's what happens when you don't understand it.

If anyone is being dishonest, it would be the Liberal liars on the left. They claim not to have a problem with gun owners who are trained, and have submitted to background checks. I can't think of anyone more trained than military veterans, and yes, they most certainly do submit to background checks. People wonder why we can't have better gun control laws, it's because the Looney Left can't be depended on, to keep their word, and they will always go for more.

I just read that a fifth victim has died, condolences to all of their families, and friends.

"The original Posse Comitatus Act referred essentially to the United States Army. The United States Air Force was added in 1956, and the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps have been included by a regulation of the United States Department of Defense. This law is often relied upon to prevent the Department of Defense from interfering in domestic law enforcement."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

We see how well it worked out for Thailand and other countries when the military is allowed from interfering in domestic law enforcement. The US has adequate law enforcement agencies to protect it's citizens, we don't need to arm the military in civilian places. If the military does not feel that civilian law enforcement agencies and or the national guard can keep them safe, , they need to conduct their business in army basses or National Guard armories.

I'm very well aware of that, unfortunately, you still don't comprehend it, even after posting the link.

As to my earlier comment, about the Liberal liars from the left.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/political/la-na-gun-law-20150718-story.html#

I do not have a problem with restricting people from being able to own guns. I do have a problem, with the government running the program. After all, look at Veterans Affairs, IRS, etc. hardly shining examples of success.

Edited July 18, 2015 by beechguy

[Publicus]

 

It is absolutely hilarious that the Gun-nutters/conservative-un-conservatives want their guns/toys to defend against tyrannical government, then in the same breath they want to repeal/ subvert, the Posse Comitatus act

But that does not surprise me much, schizophrenia seems to be Modus Operandi of the far right, they want less power to the Federal government and less interference in our daily lives, and then they want the government involved, in who marries whom, reproductive rights, end of life rights , etc

sad very sad

Nobody said anything about subverting Posse Comitatus act, but I suppose that's what happens when you don't understand it.

If anyone is being dishonest, it would be the Liberal liars on the left. They claim not to have a problem with gun owners who are trained, and have submitted to background checks. I can't think of anyone more trained than military veterans, and yes, they most certainly do submit to background checks. People wonder why we can't have better gun control laws, it's because the Looney Left can't be depended on, to keep their word, and they will always go for more.

I just read that a fifth victim has died, condolences to all of their families, and friends.

 

Trying to sell the wild concoction that liberals are guilty for the 300-plus million guns in the US and for gun violence in general sounds like it came from the 1950s cheap scifi movie "Plan Nine From Outer Space." The bogus claim against liberals is simultaneously laughable and pathetic, a truly alien notion.

It is also the case not everyone is immune from shooting himself in the foot in this way or whatever.

Department of the Navy confirmed yesterday another shooting incident near Chattanooga, in suburban Atlanta, where a recruiter accidentally shot himself in the leg with his personal 45 pistol while he was talking about the Chattanooga shooting with a recent recruit.

The official report said the recruiter showed the visiting newbe sailor the unloaded gun, then reloaded it and inadvertently fired it off as he was putting it back in his holster.

So it could seem the Navy recruiter might have to wait until he's a veteran per se to necessarily become competent and qualified in the handling and use of firearms. It remains unclear what the Navy might think of the recruiter taking a firearm to his duty station in the community, or at all and anywhere.

http://www.usnews.co...ill-

Department of Homeland Security btw has said right wing extremism is at least equal to domestic terrorism as a threat to the national security.

What no one in Washington will say is however that they are aware the far out wacko right believes Posse Comitatus gives local counties the right to secede under the authority of right wing sheriffs and that it's a matter of time and timing as to when secessions will begin in hundreds of counties, if not a thousand of 'em or possibly more. (Keep in mind we're talking about the wacko bird loony far out extreme, such as the teabaggers among others. Secession by states turned out disastrously for the hardest core militants so it looks now that it's down to counties.)

Edited July 18, 2015 by Publicus

[sirineou]

It is absolutely hilarious that the Gun-nutters/conservative-un-conservatives want their guns/toys to defend against tyrannical government, then in the same breath they want to repeal/ subvert, the Posse Comitatus act

But that does not surprise me much, schizophrenia seems to be Modus Operandi of the far right, they want less power to the Federal government and less interference in our daily lives, and then they want the government involved, in who marries whom, reproductive rights, end of life rights , etc

sad very sad

Nobody said anything about subverting Posse Comitatus act, but I suppose that's what happens when you don't understand it.

If anyone is being dishonest, it would be the Liberal liars on the left. They claim not to have a problem with gun owners who are trained, and have submitted to background checks. I can't think of anyone more trained than military veterans, and yes, they most certainly do submit to background checks. People wonder why we can't have better gun control laws, it's because the Looney Left can't be depended on, to keep their word, and they will always go for more.

I just read that a fifth victim has died, condolences to all of their families, and friends.

"The original Posse Comitatus Act referred essentially to the United States Army. The United States Air Force was added in 1956, and the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps have been included by a regulation of the United States Department of Defense. This law is often relied upon to prevent the Department of Defense from interfering in domestic law enforcement."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

We see how well it worked out for Thailand and other countries when the military is allowed from interfering in domestic law enforcement. The US has adequate law enforcement agencies to protect it's citizens, we don't need to arm the military in civilian places. If the military does not feel that civilian law enforcement agencies and or the national guard can keep them safe, , they need to conduct their business in army basses or National Guard armories.

I'm very well aware of that, unfortunately, you still don't comprehend it, even after posting the link.

As to my earlier comment, about the Liberal liars from the left.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/political/la-na-gun-law-20150718-story.html#

I do not have a problem with restricting people from being able to own guns. I do have a problem, with the government running the program. After all, look at Veterans Affairs, IRS, etc. hardly shining examples of success.

"This law is often relied upon to prevent the Department of Defense from interfering in domestic law enforcement."

it sounds pretty unambiguous to me but I concede that I am not very bright, so if you could please explain it o me , it would be highly appreciated.

[sdanielmcev]

It is absolutely hilarious that the Gun-nutters/conservative-un-conservatives want their guns/toys to defend against tyrannical government, then in the same breath they want to repeal/ subvert, the Posse Comitatus act
But that does not surprise me much, schizophrenia seems to be Modus Operandi of the far right, they want less power to the Federal government and less interference in our daily lives, and then they want the government involved, in who marries whom, reproductive rights, end of life rights , etc
sad very sad

Nobody said anything about subverting Posse Comitatus act, but I suppose that's what happens when you don't understand it.

If anyone is being dishonest, it would be the Liberal liars on the left. They claim not to have a problem with gun owners who are trained, and have submitted to background checks. I can't think of anyone more trained than military veterans, and yes, they most certainly do submit to background checks. People wonder why we can't have better gun control laws, it's because the Looney Left can't be depended on, to keep their word, and they will always go for more.

I just read that a fifth victim has died, condolences to all of their families, and friends.

"The original Posse Comitatus Act referred essentially to the United States Army. The United States Air Force was added in 1956, and the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps have been included by a regulation of the United States Department of Defense. This law is often relied upon to prevent the Department of Defense from interfering in domestic law enforcement."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

We see how well it worked out for Thailand and other countries when the military is allowed from interfering in domestic law enforcement. The US has adequate law enforcement agencies to protect it's citizens, we don't need to arm the military in civilian places. If the military does not feel that civilian law enforcement agencies and or the national guard can keep them safe, , they need to conduct their business in army basses or National Guard armories.

I'm very well aware of that, unfortunately, you still don't comprehend it, even after posting the link.

As to my earlier comment, about the Liberal liars from the left.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/political/la-na-gun-law-20150718-story.html#

I do not have a problem with restricting people from being able to own guns. I do have a problem, with the government running the program. After all, look at Veterans Affairs, IRS, etc. hardly shining examples of success.

"This law is often relied upon to prevent the Department of Defense from interfering in domestic law enforcement."

it sounds pretty unambiguous to me but I concede that I am not very bright, so if you could please explain it o me , it would be highly appreciated.

The act prohibits any organized military action in apprehending criminals on US soil, including foreign persons suspected of criminal activity.. However, it does not prevent any individual attempts by military persons from apprehending or assisting police actions, as an individual citizen on the US.

[sdanielmcev]

 

It is absolutely hilarious that the Gun-nutters/conservative-un-conservatives want their guns/toys to defend against tyrannical government, then in the same breath they want to repeal/ subvert, the Posse Comitatus act

But that does not surprise me much, schizophrenia seems to be Modus Operandi of the far right, they want less power to the Federal government and less interference in our daily lives, and then they want the government involved, in who marries whom, reproductive rights, end of life rights , etc

sad very sad

Nobody said anything about subverting Posse Comitatus act, but I suppose that's what happens when you don't understand it.

If anyone is being dishonest, it would be the Liberal liars on the left. They claim not to have a problem with gun owners who are trained, and have submitted to background checks. I can't think of anyone more trained than military veterans, and yes, they most certainly do submit to background checks. People wonder why we can't have better gun control laws, it's because the Looney Left can't be depended on, to keep their word, and they will always go for more.

I just read that a fifth victim has died, condolences to all of their families, and friends.

 

Trying to sell the wild concoction that liberals are guilty for the 300-plus million guns in the US and for gun violence in general sounds like it came from the 1950s cheap scifi movie "Plan Nine From Outer Space." The bogus claim against liberals is simultaneously laughable and pathetic, a truly alien notion.

It is also the case not everyone is immune from shooting himself in the foot in this way or whatever.

Department of the Navy confirmed yesterday another shooting incident near Chattanooga, in suburban Atlanta, where a recruiter accidentally shot himself in the leg with his personal 45 pistol while he was talking about the Chattanooga shooting with a recent recruit.

The official report said the recruiter showed the visiting newbe sailor the unloaded gun, then reloaded it and inadvertently fired it off as he was putting it back in his holster.

So it could seem the Navy recruiter might have to wait until he's a veteran per se to necessarily become competent and qualified in the handling and use of firearms. It remains unclear what the Navy might think of the recruiter taking a firearm to his duty station in the community, or at all and anywhere.

http://www.usnews.co...ill-

Department of Homeland Security btw has said right wing extremism is at least equal to domestic terrorism as a threat to the national security.

What no one in Washington will say is however that they are aware the far out wacko right believes Posse Comitatus gives local counties the right to secede under the authority of right wing sheriffs and that it's a matter of time and timing as to when secessions will begin in hundreds of counties, if not a thousand of 'em or possibly more. (Keep in mind we're talking about the wacko bird loony far out extreme, such as the teabaggers among others. Secession by states turned out disastrously for the hardest core militants so it looks now that it's down to counties.)

Lose your tin foil hat again? The US was born from secession. And, except for Timothy McViegh, it has been the leftists that have been the most violent. Guys like Kaczynski. It's all there. Just stop reading thru liberal lenses.

[Publicus]

 

Perhaps the Posse Comitatus Act can be superseded by the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) who was created in 2012 under Obama administration.

The Act gives US governors the ability to request the help of military reservists in the event of a terrorist attack, or other disaster.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012

I'm surprised that the military anti-terrorism drill Jade Helm 15 active in other states -who started one day before the attack- didn't interact or took position in this case...

Even so, the 3 amigos from OP should be aware of the extend of Jade Helm 15 in the future without changing any gun law extent.

A lot will change after 15th of September 2015 in the US...

 

Probably the weather mostly, and most anywhere.

These are the Army's Louisiana Maneuvers redux, of 1940-1941 and 1992 respectively.

The original 1940-41 'peacetime' LAM of 16 Army divisions were conducted throughout the US South to learn to move and maneuver large units of forces in preparation to fight the Nazis in Europe. Discovered during the exercises were then LTC Dwight Eisenhower as an organizer and planner, then 2-star Gen George S Patton as a brilliant tank commander and several other military luminaries of World War II.

The second LAM were conducted in the US South in 1992 to test design a post Gulf War Army, the Air-Land military force (succeeded as of 2010 by the Air-Sea military force).

Their current equivalent, Operation Jade Helm 15 has a different name but the same essential purpose as the two LAM, to prepare the Army for large unit warfare, i.e., at the level of brigade, division, corps, army groups. In short, state to state warfare.

Jade Helm 15 is however more limited in its geographic scope, operating in five states instead of the 15 states of the LAM (TX, TN, LA, NC, SC). I guess this would be definitive proof to the looney lunar crackpot right that it is indeed a massive Obama conspiracy to.....whatever....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/Louisiana_Maneuvers_Kinder%2C_Louisiana_479.JPG/330px-Louisiana_Maneuvers_Kinder%2C_Louisiana_479.JPG'>

Edited July 18, 2015 by Publicus