Cuba 'under no illusions' regarding US ties: Cuban expert

[webfact]

Interview:

Cuba "under no illusions" regarding U.S. ties: Cuban expert
English.news.cn

HAVANA, July 22 (Xinhua) -- Cuba is taking a cautious and realistic approach to its renewed diplomatic ties with the United States, though the two on Monday reopened their respective embassies in each other's capital after more than 50 years of confrontation and animosity.

Esteban Morales, a Cuban writer, political observer and economist, believed that "Cuba is under no illusions regarding ... what is described as normal relations with the United States."

Reopening embassies will, for the moment, simply make it easier for the two once-alienated governments to communicate formally after five decades of hostility, said Morales, founder and honorary director of the University of Havana's Center for Hemispheric and U.S. Studies.

Washington "frequently flouts the rules," he warned, saying the history of the U.S.-Cuba ties is full of instances of the U.S. "disrespecting the norms of diplomacy."

In the absence of diplomatic ties, the two countries maintained so-called Interests Sections, which the United States used to distribute propaganda and recruit disaffected Cubans to take part in covert anti-government schemes, said Morales.

While the bilateral talks leading to restoring the ties have been marked by mutual respect, and the diplomatic agreements taking shape are in keeping with the Vienna Convention, an international agreement standardizing the conduct of diplomatic missions, said Morales, adding it is not enough.

"They should discuss relations as if between neighbors who respect their mutual sovereignty and independence," he said, especially since a much more complex and lengthy process lies ahead as the two work to normalize their ties.

Full story: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/22/c_134435378.htm

-- Xinhua 2015-07-22

[Jingthing]

It's a start. Don't knock it.

[impulse]

It's a start. Don't knock it.

Agreed. A long overdue step in the right direction.

I just hope the next administration doesn't screw it up- whoever that is.

[lovetotravel]

It's a start. Don't knock it.

Agreed. A long overdue step in the right direction.

I just hope the next administration doesn't screw it up- whoever that is.

I've been to Cuba a few times. The problems don't solely lie with the US government. The Cuban government is really messed up. About like the DR or Haiti!

[Jingthing]

I know lots of Americans are looking forward to visiting Cuba but from what I've read about how Cuban tourism is being managed as far as segregating tourists from locals it doesn't sound all that appealing. I will be more interested if they ever open up there.

[NeverSure]

This won't benefit the Cuban people much. As long as the Castros control and own the joint, the people will continue to be poor. This is one of the reasons that it isn't good to welcome dictatorships - especially communists - with open arms. The West managed to starve the USSR out (another debate for another time). The West has done biz with China but not to the benefit of most of its 1.3 billion people and certainly not to the benefit of the West. It takes fundamental change to benefit the people.

Cheers.

[Jingthing]

Autocratic regimes have a lot in common ... it's all about keeping the regime in total power. I think you're right. Americans will get Cuban cigars but Cubans in Cuba won't be seeing much change any time soon.

[willyumiii]

It's a start. Don't knock it.

Agreed. A long overdue step in the right direction.

I just hope the next administration doesn't screw it up- whoever that is.

A good reason to vote against those who would love to screw it up.

[willyumiii]

I know lots of Americans are looking forward to visiting Cuba but from what I've read about how Cuban tourism is being managed as far as segregating tourists from locals it doesn't sound all that appealing. I will be more interested if they ever open up there.

Just like Thailand has done in tourist areas like Krabi, Pattaya and Phuket??

My last trip down there, I saw damn few Thais, Heard no Thai music and Thai restaurants were the minority

.

Farangs and Chinese tourists,

and the workers were mostly from Myramar, or Burma as they called it..

There really isn't much "Thai" about it like there was years ago.

They give the tourist what they want.

Cuba will do the same.

[sdanielmcev]

Would be nice to see a wide open Cuba.

[bendejo]

Once things get set up and US tourists can land in Havana and get a visa/entry permit on arrival there will be a lot of guys going down there for weekend trips with the same intention as, let's say, tourist men who fly into Bangkok and stay at the Nana. I wonder if the US media will mention this, they'll probably cover it as cigar tourism.

Amusing how certain world media outlets (Xinhua, Al Jazeera) are portraying this new relationship between the countries as something doomed to fail from the get-go. The arguments are pretty empty, it doesn't take much to figure that out.

Remember back when W declared Cuba as part of an Axis of Evil? (My guess is Wolfowitz pulled that one out of his butt.) A lad at BBC decided he would visit each of those places to prove him wrong -- not that the kid had any real issues to stand on, it was just pure nay-saying, and he was going to show the world what great places they were. His dismay peaked when he found that most of the people he spoke with there were begging and telling him how tough life was. E.g. he walks out of his hotel and someone says "hey, those little bars of soap they give you -- can you give them to me?" He couldn't come up with anything more positive than how cool the old cars were.

(Best part of the series is when he goes to Iran and gets arrested shortly after arriving.)

Edited July 22, 2015 by bendejo

[FangFerang]

It's a start. Don't knock it.

Agreed. A long overdue step in the right direction.

I just hope the next administration doesn't screw it up- whoever that is.

I've been to Cuba a few times. The problems don't solely lie with the US government. The Cuban government is really messed up. About like the DR or Haiti!

I've been to Cuba a few times too, and your flag waving knew jerk nationalism is laughable. Patriots differentiate between acknowledging their government's mistakes and successes, while a nationalist says 'My country-love it or leave it!' (which is inane, uninformed, and in all ways being a meat puppet).

[lovetotravel]

I know lots of Americans are looking forward to visiting Cuba but from what I've read about how Cuban tourism is being managed as far as segregating tourists from locals it doesn't sound all that appealing. I will be more interested if they ever open up there.

I went with a friend who has a long lost relative living in Cuba. It was great as he spoke very good Spanish. Me? None! We took down a boom box to use on the beach and at this guys home, knowing they have absolutely nothing there. When we left, we gave it to him. He was on the train back home and was arrested. Why? They thought he stole it. They figured how could a poor guy like this afford a stereo like that. We even wrote a note in English and Spanish saying we gave it to him. With our phone numbers in the US on it. He spent some time in jail and they took the stereo from him.

Having spent about a month there, I've got lots of crazy stories like this. They 100% do segregate locals from tourists. And if a local is caught with a tourist, they are arrested. Great government.

[lovetotravel]

I've been to Cuba a few times. The problems don't solely lie with the US government. The Cuban government is really messed up. About like the DR or Haiti!

I've been to Cuba a few times too, and your flag waving knew jerk nationalism is laughable. Patriots differentiate between acknowledging their government's mistakes and successes, while a nationalist says 'My country-love it or leave it!' (which is inane, uninformed, and in all ways being a meat puppet).

You obviously know nothing about me. I'm far from a flag waving nationalist! Quite the opposite actually. I think the US government is terrible. But not much different that yours, probably.

You do know the history of Cuba, right? They've got a rough history, most of it their own making.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Cuba

In the 1950s, Cuba's gross domestic product (GDP) per capita was roughly equal to that of contemporary Italy, and significantly higher than that of countries such as Japan, although Cuba's GDP per capita was still only a sixth as large as that of the United States.^{%5B86%5D%5B90%5D} According to the United Nations at the time, "one feature of the Cuban social structure %5Bwas%5D a large middle class".^%5B90%5D Labour rights were also favourable – an eight-hour day had been established in 1933, long before most other countries, and Cuban workers were entitled to a months's paid holiday, nine days' sick leave with pay, and six weeks' holiday before and after childbirth.^%5B91%5D

Cuba also had Latin America's highest per capita consumption rates of meat, vegetables, cereals, automobiles, telephones and radios during this period.^{%5B87%5D%5B91%5D%5B92%5D:186} Cuba had the fifth-highest number of televisions per capita in the world, and the world's eighth-highest number of radio stations (160). According to the United Nations, 58 different daily newspapers operated in Cuba during the late 1950s, more than any Latin American country save Brazil, Argentina and Mexico.^%5B93%5D Havana was the world's fourth-most-expensive city at the time,^%5B81%5D and had more cinemas than New York.^%5B88%5D Cuba furthermore had the highest level of telephone penetration in Latin America, although many telephone users were still unconnected to switchboards.^%5B89%5D

Moreover, Cuba's health service was remarkably developed. By the late 1950s, it had one of the highest numbers of doctors per capita – more than in the United Kingdom at that time – and the third-lowest adult mortality rate in the world. According to the World Health Organization, the island had the lowest infant mortality rate in Latin America, and the 13th-lowest in the world – better than in contemporary France, Belgium, West Germany, Israel, Japan, Austria, Italy, Spain, and Portugal.^{%5B87%5D%5B94%5D%5B95%5D} Additionally, Cuba's education spending in the 1950s was the highest in Latin America, relative to GDP.^%5B87%5D Cuba had the fourth-highest literacy rate in the region, at almost 80% according to the United Nations – higher than that of Spain at the time.^{%5B93%5D%5B94%5D%5B95%5D}

Impressive! But:

Large income disparities arose due to the extensive privileges enjoyed by Cuba's unionized workers.^%5B96%5D Cuban labour unions had established limitations on mechanization and even banned dismissals in some factories.^%5B91%5D The labour unions' privileges were obtained in large measure "at the cost of the unemployed and the peasants".^%5B96%5D

Cuba's labour regulations ultimately caused economic stagnation. Hugh Thomas asserts that "militant unions succeeded in maintaining the position of unionized workers and, consequently, made it difficult for capital to improve efficiency."^%5B97%5D Between 1933 and 1958, Cuba increased economic regulation enormously.^%5B83%5D The regulation led to declining investment.^%5B83%5D The World Bank also complained that the Batista administration raised the tax burden without assessing its impact. Unemployment was high; many university graduates could not find jobs.^%5B83%5D After its earlier meteoric rise, the Cuban gross domestic product grew at only 1% annually on average between 1950 and 1958.^%5B89%5D

And then came Castro...end game. But yes, the US government was involved with Cuba. As was the UK, Russia, etc, etc.

[HerbalEd]

I know lots of Americans are looking forward to visiting Cuba but from what I've read about how Cuban tourism is being managed as far as segregating tourists from locals it doesn't sound all that appealing. I will be more interested if they ever open up there.

What you've "read" is inaccurate. When I was in Cuba I saw no such "segregation of tourists." Not at all.

[HerbalEd]

This won't benefit the Cuban people much. As long as the Castros control and own the joint, the people will continue to be poor. This is one of the reasons that it isn't good to welcome dictatorships - especially communists - with open arms. The West managed to starve the USSR out (another debate for another time). The West has done biz with China but not to the benefit of most of its 1.3 billion people and certainly not to the benefit of the West. It takes fundamental change to benefit the people.

Cheers.

I respectfully disagree. I think the best way too turn the Cuban people against communism is to open it up to American tourists. The more Cubans experience free-world people and culture, the more they'll realize what they have and don't have. I'd bet they'll choose free-world-ism over communism. The very big mistake the USA made was to disallow it's citizens to visit Cuba for 50 years. Had it not done so, the Castro brothers would have been gone a long time ago.

[HerbalEd]

Autocratic regimes have a lot in common ... it's all about keeping the regime in total power. I think you're right. Americans will get Cuban cigars but Cubans in Cuba won't be seeing much change any time soon.

Not that Cuba and Cubans don't have a long way to go towards full freedom, BUT they are already seeing some major changes. The biggest ones, IMO, are smartphones and the internet ... which is huge. With more and more information and experience of the outside world, there will be more and more positive changes in Cuba.

The Cuban people are starved for this and are already eating it up.

Edited July 23, 2015 by HerbalEd

[Jingthing]

Yeah I wish them the best but don't expect instant rapid change.

[HerbalEd]

It's a start. Don't knock it.

Agreed. A long overdue step in the right direction.

I just hope the next administration doesn't screw it up- whoever that is.

I've been to Cuba a few times. The problems don't solely lie with the US government. The Cuban government is really messed up. About like the DR or Haiti!

I've been to Cuba a few times too, and your flag waving knew jerk nationalism is laughable. Patriots differentiate between acknowledging their government's mistakes and successes, while a nationalist says 'My country-love it or leave it!' (which is inane, uninformed, and in all ways being a meat puppet).

Someone would have to be blind or stupid not to see that Cuba "is really messed up" in many ways.

I've traveled extensively throughout Latin America and the Caribbean, but have never seen anywhere as desolate as Cuba. In all the other countries there are many teeming food markets, lots of restaurants, and many many free-lancing vendors on the streets selling fresh juices, snacks, souvenirs, etc., etc. In Cuba I see shops with 80% of their shelves empty, and not-one person selling anything in the streets.

Of course, Cuba isn't all bad ... esp. if you like to ride in old vintage cars (taxis). ;-) And there are a "few" great music venues. But all in all, Cuba is stark and not that much fun.

[HerbalEd]

I know lots of Americans are looking forward to visiting Cuba but from what I've read about how Cuban tourism is being managed as far as segregating tourists from locals it doesn't sound all that appealing. I will be more interested if they ever open up there.

What you've "read" is inaccurate. When I was in Cuba I saw no such "segregation of tourists." Not at all.

I don't believe you. Sorry.

Also but saying "not at all" you have come out as either a pro Castro ideologue / ignorant / or both.

So, when some one disagrees with your opinion you immediately accuse them of lying and being a Castro ideologue? Instead of being so lazy intellectually and name calling, try using logical dialogue.

The fact remains that what I said above is indeed what I experienced. And in the week I was in Cuba I did not see any evidence of tourists and Cubans being kept apart. I didn't say it wasn't happening, but I saw no evidence nor experienced anything like it .... "not at all."

As to me being a Castro ideologue, try reading my other posts where I also write about the negatives of Cuba and Castro.

Not sure if you can grasp this idea, but I'll try. One can actually say "something" positive about someone or something and not necessarily be advocating that thing or person. Stating that Hitler pulled Germany out of a failing economy and build the autobahn does not automatically mean that person is a Hitler loving Nazi.

Edited July 23, 2015 by HerbalEd

[Jingthing]

Now he brings Hitler into a discussion having nothing to do with Hitler.

Means he lost the debate.

[HerbalEd]

Now he brings Hitler into a discussion having nothing to do with Hitler.

Means he lost the debate.

One part of of this so-called debate was/is a dictatorship, so using Hitler as an example is not such a stretch. But, alas, I can't counter such superior intellect, logic and debating skills as yours.

Edited July 23, 2015 by HerbalEd

[Jingthing]

Sarcasm. Ouch. Powerful. Didn't see that coming!

[HerbalEd]

Sarcasm. Ouch. Powerful. Didn't see that coming!

Suggestion: Don't try countering sarcasm with more of the same ... i.e., the pot calling the kettle black. Anyway, at least you know I wasn't serious about your superior intellect.

[kamahele]

I think this is a positive step for both countries. However the GOP candidates and climbing all over each other trying to be the most "anti" Cuban candidate they can be. All for the support a small group of Cuban Americans. Unfortunately, our politicians and the Cuban American population has helped keep the Castros in power through the embargo. Why are we still punishing this tiny country when we hold Saudi Arabia so close and have no such embargo on China?!

[lovetotravel]

This won't benefit the Cuban people much. As long as the Castros control and own the joint, the people will continue to be poor. This is one of the reasons that it isn't good to welcome dictatorships - especially communists - with open arms. The West managed to starve the USSR out (another debate for another time). The West has done biz with China but not to the benefit of most of its 1.3 billion people and certainly not to the benefit of the West. It takes fundamental change to benefit the people.

Cheers.

I respectfully disagree. I think the best way too turn the Cuban people against communism is to open it up to American tourists. The more Cubans experience free-world people and culture, the more they'll realize what they have and don't have. I'd bet they'll choose free-world-ism over communism. The very big mistake the USA made was to disallow it's citizens to visit Cuba for 50 years. Had it not done so, the Castro brothers would have been gone a long time ago.

There is definitely segregation of locals from tourists. NO locals are allowed into Varadero. At least when I was there several years ago. Plus, locals could not walk around with tourists or they'd get arrested. I was amazed at how well they are tuned into this. One moment they are walking along side you, the next, completely gone, then back again a few minutes later. They seem to know who's watching them. Bizarre.

100% agree that the best way to help this country is to open it up, but that's the decision of the Cuban government. Haiti has been open for years. As has every other Caribbean island. Not so for Cuba. 100% due to the government. Nothing any other government can do. You can kinda say the same thing for China. The great internet fire wall keeps the locals in the dark.

Cuba is open to travelers from all over the world. Just not the US. And the country is still a mess. #1 problem is the Castro brothers.

Grand Cayman is a stunning island. Bonaire is fantastic for diving. Nevis is beyond belief (and most people's pocketbooks!).

Haiti is a mess, as is the DR, Puerto Rico, Jamaica, etc.

All up to the local government. Unfortunately for many, can't blame the US for the ones in a mess.

[HerbalEd]

I think this is a positive step for both countries. However the GOP candidates and climbing all over each other trying to be the most "anti" Cuban candidate they can be. All for the support a small group of Cuban Americans. Unfortunately, our politicians and the Cuban American population has helped keep the Castros in power through the embargo. Why are we still punishing this tiny country when we hold Saudi Arabia so close and have no such embargo on China?!

The answer to your question is: It's to assure the vote of the anti-Castro Cubans living in Florida (mostly Miami area). Florida is a very key state needed to win the presidential election and if you don't win their vote you don't win the state. If Obama was running for president again (which he can't), most likely we wouldn't be seeing this new diplomatic relations with Cuba.

[Jingthing]

The majority of Florida Cuban Americans now support relations with Cuba. Especially younger ones.