US gay couple stuck in Thailand with baby, says surrogate won't sign papers

[Incobart]

I am sure it's been said but these Americans must be truly stupid.

no, the problem is that this guy and he's following likers are mostly the students that were in the first line to cause the mental torture to kids with a small difference...

[pigeonjake]

when this thread did the turn a few months ago, i stated that i dont think they told her they were gay,

and to all those PC people who support gays,

why was it that a couple in england who ran a guest house got fines because they didnt want a gay couple staying in there guest house, it was against there religion, but guess what they lost the case in the courts and had to pay this gay couple compensation,

the worlds gone mad,

gay people have more rights now then some couple who didnt want them to stay because of there religion,,

pc gone mad,

i hope the lady keeps HER baby

[DirtyDan]

May be her plan to marry both of them! So that she can get better income.

Another issue is why gays want baby, i am not sure the mentality of baby of raised by two men.

If had access to academic journals here, I could cite the actual science which supports children raised in families, regardless of the sex of the parents, turn out to be just a "normal" as "normal" people . Unfortunately, all I have is a quick google search:

"The new research, which looked at 19,000 studies and articles.." http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/23/us-usa-gaymarriage-study-idUSKBN0P32AM20150623

"researchers from the Columbia Law School examined 76 studies published after 1985 and found that only four of them concluded that children raised by gay couples faced additional adversity as a result of having same-sex parents." http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/06/29/science-clear-children-raised-same-sex-parents-are-no-disadvantage-0

"In a historic study of children raised by homosexual parents, sociologist Mark Regnerus of the University of Texas at Austin has overturned the conventional academic wisdom that such children suffer no disadvantages when compared to children raised by their married mother and father." http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research (I include this one for the sake of fair representation. However, I would really like to see the actual paper and not this analysis of it as it appears he's not comparing apples to apples...).

I too was raised in a sheltered-bigoted manner, but was able to do the reading necessary to evolve beyond the ignorance that was forced upon me.

I thought the government was going to clean up the surrogate situation after that Japanese guy had 16 babies made last year?

Edited July 29, 2015 by DirtyDan

[Friendly Stranger]

Is this the same story that was reported about a month back?

Tolerant Thailand, I guess only when it suits.

Let them have their baby, you get your cash and everyone is off on their merry way.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Friendly Stranger

[metisdead]

An inflammatory bigot post has been removed as well as the replies to that post.

[Bluespunk]

when this thread did the turn a few months ago, i stated that i dont think they told her they were gay,

and to all those PC people who support gays,

why was it that a couple in england who ran a guest house got fines because they didnt want a gay couple staying in there guest house, it was against there religion, but guess what they lost the case in the courts and had to pay this gay couple compensation,

the worlds gone mad,

gay people have more rights now then some couple who didnt want them to stay because of there religion,,

pc gone mad,

i hope the lady keeps HER baby

Nonsense.

[Tywais]

Commercial surrogacy was banned in Thailand in Feb this year. This may present a legal problem for the couple if the government decides to make it retroactive.

[Jingthing]

Commercial surrogacy was banned in Thailand in Feb this year. This may present a legal problem for the couple if the government decides to make it retroactive.

Does Thai law generally make laws retroactive because that sounds extraordinary to me?

When I first heard this story, I was not optimistic for the couple's chances.

Also it seems they don't have deep pockets.

[CapeThai]

Yet another good example of Thai ripping off Farang. Most probably only after more money.... Thai logic

[than]

Paying for have baby with surrogate mother is Human trafficking

US must look about his citizen comportment before class Thailand in Tier 3

[Doc46]

My honest opinion,,,Gay couples (male or female) should not be allowed children ,children must have a father and a mother unless one gets killed or they get divorced Get a pet.

[Jingthing]

I am sure it's been said but these Americans must be truly stupid.

One is a Spaniard.

Anyway, I reckon their cause isn't helped by the current strain in Thai-American relations.

[Jingthing]

My honest opinion,,,Gay couples (male or female) should not be allowed children ,children must have a father and a mother unless one gets killed or they get divorced Get a pet.

You get a pet.

Who do you think you are dictating the personal choices of other people you don't know?

Dude, intolerant opinions like yours are very common. We all know that. I don't see how that adds value to the discussion of this VERY SPECIFIC case where there are a lot of complex specific factors at play other than knee JERK morality judgments.

[smutcakes]

^{Did the surrogate know at the outset that she was doing this on behalf of a gay couple?}

^{If not, perhaps the part of the couple who she met did not inform her of this, and even misled her into thinking the baby would be taken by a normal family?}

^{​If that is the case, perhaps they also have to accept some of the blame, and perhaps the young lady's position is a little bit more understandable.}

[DirtyDan]

^{Did the surrogate know at the outset that she was doing this on behalf of a gay couple?}

^{If not, perhaps the part of the couple who she met did not inform her of this, and even misled her into thinking the baby would be taken by a normal family?}

^{​If that is the case, perhaps they also have to accept some of the blame, and perhaps the young lady's position is a little bit more understandable.}

What constitutes a "normal" family? How about specifically in the US, where two loving adults want this baby to be raised, where less than half of children are raised in a house by their biologic heterosexual parents still in their first marriage? (only 46% by 2014 Decennial Census data)

It takes a village to raise a child, as long as the sex of the villagers is equally 50% male and 50% female .

Edited July 29, 2015 by DirtyDan

[Jingthing]

^{Did the surrogate know at the outset that she was doing this on behalf of a gay couple?}

^{If not, perhaps the part of the couple who she met did not inform her of this, and even misled her into thinking the baby would be taken by a normal family?}

^{​If that is the case, perhaps they also have to accept some of the blame, and perhaps the young lady's position is a little bit more understandable.}

She claims she didn't know but that doesn't mean it is necessarily true that is the main reason for her resisting meeting her initial agreement. She may just have changed her mind and wants the baby and found a convenient plausible excuse that would gain her support. A baby which she has no biological connection to at all. At this point I suppose it's mostly a legal matter, and as we all know foreigners in Thailand are not in the strongest situation regarding legal matters that conflict with local's desires.

My sympathies of course are with the married couple and their persistence in not giving up is certainly admirable, but I wonder if it is starting to become foolish and self-destructive to the family that they are secure with.

A lot of foreigners make the mistake of thinking Thailand is a super tolerant and liberal place ... but so much of that is superficial, not to mention the weak position of foreigners here. I guess this couple fell into a Thai trap of sorts.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[spidermike007]

If money has already been paid, threaten to sue, and serve her with papers drawn up by an attorney. Scare her. If that does not work, just walk away. Adopt a baby. Get on with your lives.

[NextStationBangkok]

May be her plan to marry both of them! So that she can get better income.

Another issue is why gays want baby, i am not sure the mentality of baby of raised by two men.

If had access to academic journals here, I could cite the actual science which supports children raised in families, regardless of the sex of the parents, turn out to be just a "normal" as "normal" people . Unfortunately, all I have is a quick google search:

"The new research, which looked at 19,000 studies and articles.." http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/23/us-usa-gaymarriage-study-idUSKBN0P32AM20150623

"researchers from the Columbia Law School examined 76 studies published after 1985 and found that only four of them concluded that children raised by gay couples faced additional adversity as a result of having same-sex parents." http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/06/29/science-clear-children-raised-same-sex-parents-are-no-disadvantage-0

"In a historic study of children raised by homosexual parents, sociologist Mark Regnerus of the University of Texas at Austin has overturned the conventional academic wisdom that such children suffer no disadvantages when compared to children raised by their married mother and father." http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research (I include this one for the sake of fair representation. However, I would really like to see the actual paper and not this analysis of it as it appears he's not comparing apples to apples...).

I too was raised in a sheltered-bigoted manner, but was able to do the reading necessary to evolve beyond the ignorance that was forced upon me.

I thought the government was going to clean up the surrogate situation after that Japanese guy had 16 babies made last year?

I am not against gay, but i don't like them be hand to hand or kiss in public. They can do privately what they want. There is a natural phenomenal that wins always. There an invisible force between a man and women creates a good family. No one can simulate the environment that a father and a mother creates for children. Including love, care, daily fights, quarrels between couples, and many more. Especially for a Girl child the Thai lady is right, and she made a right decision. Those children missing real father and mother those will miss something in life. These gays can adopt some orphaned children in their care homes, and helping and supporting them financially while they are still in care houses. Or bring home some children and play with them on Sundays and treat them, and buy them which they cannot afford. There are many way they can help the society to by raising orphaned children and there are many need a care in world. It is really selfish to have a own baby when you are to be a gay!

[Jingthing]

If money has already been paid, threaten to sue, and serve her with papers drawn up by an attorney. Scare her. If that does not work, just walk away. Adopt a baby. Get on with your lives.

Easy to say that but one of them does have a biological connection with the baby, and as with any parents, it is "normal" to STRONGLY want to keep such a baby, It is starting to look tragic though. What a mess.

[NextStationBangkok]

If money has already been paid, threaten to sue, and serve her with papers drawn up by an attorney. Scare her. If that does not work, just walk away. Adopt a baby. Get on with your lives.

The biggest problem is money in Thailand. Thailand already banned the surrogacy for commercial gain. So, it is illegal to pay money now. Only way is to beg the lady to release the baby.

[spidermike007]

If money has already been paid, threaten to sue, and serve her with papers drawn up by an attorney. Scare her. If that does not work, just walk away. Adopt a baby. Get on with your lives.

Easy to say that but one of them does have a biological connection with the baby, and as with any parents, it is "normal" to STRONGLY want to keep such a baby, It is starting to look tragic though. What a mess.

I get the connection, but there is a point at which you just have to say is this worth it? Six months, and tens of thousands of dollars, and when do you say quit? Life is short, and who wants to live in that state of mind? Sometimes, by cutting your losses you come out a winner. And think of how amazing it would be to never have to see that witch again! Just go with adoption. The whole "my own genes" thing is a bit overblown.

[Jingthing]

Well, we don't know the details of the case. Maybe they know something the public doesn't know and they think there is still a chance. It has never looked good for them based on the news that has been published.

BTW, to those who have no sympathy to this gay married couple but WOULD be supportive of a straight married couple in the exact same situation, that is BIGOTRY plain and simple. I realize many people legitimately opposed all surrogacy ... that's different.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[smutcakes]

^{Did the surrogate know at the outset that she was doing this on behalf of a gay couple?}

^{If not, perhaps the part of the couple who she met did not inform her of this, and even misled her into thinking the baby would be taken by a normal family?}

^{​If that is the case, perhaps they also have to accept some of the blame, and perhaps the young lady's position is a little bit more understandable.}

She claims she didn't know but that doesn't mean it is necessarily true that is the main reason for her resisting meeting her initial agreement. She may just have changed her mind and wants the baby and found a convenient plausible excuse that would gain her support. A baby which she has no biological connection to at all. At this point I suppose it's mostly a legal matter, and as we all know foreigners in Thailand are not in the strongest situation regarding legal matters that conflict with local's desires.

My sympathies of course are with the married couple and their persistence in not giving up is certainly admirable, but I wonder if it is starting to become foolish and self-destructive to the family that they are secure with.

A lot of foreigners make the mistake of thinking Thailand is a super tolerant and liberal place ... but so much of that is superficial, not to mention the weak position of foreigners here. I guess this couple fell into a Thai trap of sorts.

She claims she did not know, this may be true it may not be. So until any finds out whether this is true or not if they ever do, i think it is only fair to take her at her word, i have not seen whether this is denied by the parent she met. I would of thought the parent she met would of told her of the situation at the outset, which would of been the open and transparent thing to do. Again perhaps he did, but we don't know.

She has no biological connection to? despite it growing in her womb?

[Jingthing]

No. She didn't know before. I think that's clear.

Correct. No biological connection. Not her egg. DUH!

A DNA test would show zero connection to her and definite connection to one of the Daddies unless of course someone really messed up in the lab!

Edited July 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[smutcakes]

No. She didn't know before. I think that's clear.

Correct. No biological connection. Not her egg. DUH!

A DNA test would show zero connection to her and definite connection to one of the Daddies unless of course someone really messed up in the lab!

I know little on the scientific front of that, but i find it difficult to believe that the baby which grows in her womb, has her blood in it etc has no biological connection to the surrogate.

[Jingthing]

No. She didn't know before. I think that's clear.

Correct. No biological connection. Not her egg. DUH!

A DNA test would show zero connection to her and definite connection to one of the Daddies unless of course someone really messed up in the lab!

I know little on the scientific front of that, but i find it difficult to believe that the baby which grows in her womb, has her blood in it etc has no biological connection to the surrogate.

So you think that changes the baby's DNA to the point where she is in ANY way a biological parent, is that it? Any biologists here to address that?

Anyway, that isn't part of her argument based on the press.

Clearly there is pain and suffering in birthing a baby but she agreed to be COMPENSATED for that.

Before she didn't agree to meet her end of the deal.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[Bluespunk]

No. She didn't know before. I think that's clear.

Correct. No biological connection. Not her egg. DUH!

A DNA test would show zero connection to her and definite connection to one of the Daddies unless of course someone really messed up in the lab!

I know little on the scientific front of that, but i find it difficult to believe that the baby which grows in her womb, has her blood in it etc has no biological connection to the surrogate.

There is almost no DNA from the surrogate in a case like this.

http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask420

[Jingthing]

Thanks. Assumed there wasn't. Even kissing people leaves traces though. Uh oh.

[marquess]

An inflammatory bigot post has been removed as well as the replies to that post.

Anything that is not P.C these days is often deemed inflammatory! Everyone either has to jump on the bandwagon and wave the flags or shut up!

[Bluespunk]

An inflammatory bigot post has been removed as well as the replies to that post.

Anything that is not P.C these days is often deemed inflammatory! Everyone either has to jump on the bandwagon and wave the flags or shut up!

If its the post I'm thinking of it deserved to be removed. It was a foul diatribe of hate, prejudice and bigotry.