Lightroom

[femi fan]

Hoping for some ideas and advice from lightroom users that reflects their personal and practical experiences...

I'm a mac user and have only used iphotos. I have an imac and macbook pro, but will shortly buy a mac book air to replace the pro. I'm not synched now, but would like to be since i will do a lot of work on the road, but wish to make my imac the main working station in general

I have several thousand photos in my iphoto library, and that's probably still true with the ones i have given five stars to separate my good ones out. I've been taking photos as a pastime on and off for 40 years. I'm about to make an effort at making money from them for the first time.

I feel i should purchase lightroom 6 or the CC version. One question i have is which way to go is recommended? What happens if i'm paying the monthly subscription for a while and then, for whatever reason, i wish to go for the perpetual licence version, or get out from lightroom altogether? Do i lose all my folders, ratings, and so on?

A second major question i have is how do i transition from my iphoto library to getting them onto the lightroom library? I have various folders albums and ratings and so on which i've done on iphoto, and i wonder if i will lose all that work? Perhaps i should take the opportunity to start again with ratings, weeding out my best shots, making new folders and albums and so on?

[femi fan]

A third question: could posters simply offer up their experiences in how lightroom works for them? What does lightroom do for you? From my research i see i can organise, edit, make books, and other things ('modes'?), but i'm hoping to hear people's practical experiences and application of these aspects of what lightroom does. This to me is more useful than reading up on reviews of software.

I'm particularly keen on being able to organise my library in intuitive and easily-findable ways! I'm also keen on producing my own books of photos with text. I would like to do work on my laptop while on the road, but then when i'm home simply continue with that work on my imac.

[femi fan]

A fourth question:

Will i find lightrooms tutorials well made and using language that is easy to follow? Or do posters have certain websites they recommend for me to learn how to use lightroom to my benefit?

My plan is to clear one whole day a week, at least, to doing photography work on my computer. I'm keen to go from beginner to an intermediate user of Lightroom, and happy to put the hours in, but it's such a bonus when you find learner-enabling tutorials rather than ones where the language used proves pretty inaccessible.

Many thanks in advance for any input to my questions which i've separated to make it easier to reply to.

[kestrel]

On the 4th question . . . check out Serge Ramelli on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/user/cmoeu

He's established, capable, popular & pretty much the best LR & PS guy offering quality video tutorials on the web.

[FracturedRabbit]

Which version to buy?

The Creative Cloud Subscription is 300 baht a month and gives you the latest version of Lightroom and Photoshop.

The stand-alone version can be purchased through the Adobe South East Asia on-line store and is around 5,000 baht (haven't looked recently).

If you buy stand-alone version 6, you can continue to receive updates to version 6; but when version 7 is released you will have to buy a new version.

If you buy CC, then you will continue to receive updates, including upgrades to the next version.

The catalogues that reference all you photos are independent of the actual Lightroom program; so you could change between the subscription and stand-alone service without any disruption to your data.

I have had Lightroom since it was first released and had the stand-alone version 5. I switched to CC because I wanted to dispense with my not entirely legal Photoshop. I am happy with CC and think it is worth 300 baht a month given I use it daily. Having a fresh, new, legal version of Photoshop is good too! Updates arrive on my Mac on a regular basis and installing those updates is painless. In addition, the CC version has some features in Lightroom that are not available in the stand-alone version and includes moblle solutions such a Lightroom on the iPad which can be synced to your Mac (so work on some photos while you are away and have those edits transferred to your desktop when you get home).

Which you choose? That's for you to decide! Here's a comparison article that might help:

http://laurashoe.com/2015/04/21/which-should-i-buy-lightroom-cc-2015-or-lightroom-6/

[FracturedRabbit]

Can I transfer iPhoto information to Lightroom?

Yes.

http://9to5mac.com/2014/10/16/adobe-lightroom-importer/

Some searching should provide other users' experiences and more specifics.

[FracturedRabbit]

How does Lightroom work for others?

For most users, there are two main features that are used, the Library module and the Develop module.

You first use the Library module when you import photos. Upon the initial import you define where the photos will be stored and what keyword(s) you want to associate with the batch. I use one of the Lightroom defaults to store each batch of photos by the date of import within a folder called photos. So if you look at my hard drive, all you will find within my photos folder are many sub-folders by date. There is no need to start naming folders to try and describe the contents; that is defined by the keyword.

For each import you can define one or more keywords for the batch. Once the batch is imported you can fine tune the keywords if required. All your keywords are listed down the right hand panel of the Library module so you can easily access your photos by keyword at any time.

Having imported your photos, there are many ways you can differentiate them in the library. For example you can go through your latest import and mark rejects for deletion by pressing the X key. The actual deletion of marked rejects happens via the menu at your convenience. For photos you want to keep, you can give them a rating by pressing 1-5; or mark them with a colour by pressing 6-9. For example, I mark the photos I particularly like by pressing 6, which puts a red frame around the photo in the Library module. You can build a Quick Collection of images by selecting with the B key; or build more permanent, nested collections.

I have around 60,000 photos in my main catalogue and find it very easy to keep track of them with the Library module. If you wish you can have more than one catalogue (Lightroom can only have one catalogue active at one time). I used to shoot Polo and kept all my polo photos (around 45,000) in a separate catalogue because I didn't want them held alongside my regular photos.

Whereas the Library module lets you work on many photos at one time, the Develop module is used to edit a single photo. You select one photo in the Library module and press D to go to the Develop module.

The Develop module allows me to do all I would ever want to do to 95% of my photos; with Photoshop only rarely being required. You can watch YouTube videos to learn about the Develop module; but the best way of learning is to get in there and play with it (download a trial and give it a go). The various sliders have become more refined over the years and they are now very powerful, but also subtle in the way they work. Personally, I would not want to work with anything else.

Something that is not obvious about the Develop module is the way it works without touching your images. Imagine you have made thirty separate adjustments to an image in the Develop module. Lightroom will show you what your image will look like with those edits applied; but that revised image does not actually exist. You can exit Lightroom at any time and those proposed edits are saved within Lightroom automatically; but there is no actual image that reflects those changes. To create an image with your adjustments you choose export, and then decide what file type, image size, name etc that you want to use. Only then will an image be generated. I use a temporary data folder for all my exports. Once I have used the export for the purpose I require (uploading to my blog, sending to a friend), it is no longer required; and every so often I delete the contents of my temporary folder. If I want a version of the photo again, I just export it from Lightroom. You can even create virtual copies in Lightroom of an image so you can try out different editing approaches. Again, no extra image is generated, just a revised set of rules in Lightroom working off the original image.

What this means in practice is that I have all original photos stored by import date in a photos folder; I have my Lightroom catalogue, and I have temporary folder for exported photos which is cleaned out on a regular basis. It's such a clean way of working. Of course you need to ensure that your photos and your catalogues are backed up regularly; but you have a Mac so Time Machine takes care of that.

The other modules I don't use so much. If you capture GPS data then the map module can be fun. The book module provides an easy way of ordering a book from your Lightroom collection; best to read some reviews and see what others think; there are many book printing options out there.

Slideshow is an easy way of showing off your photos to people.

I have never used the Print module.

The Web module produces quick and easy web galleries. I have used this a lot to generate galleries to share with people, but you do need somewhere to load them.

In summary, I think Lightroom is wonderful! The integration of powerful cataloging and extensive editing in a single program makes it hard to beat (for me).

Hope that's useful.

[FracturedRabbit]

Learning Lightroom:

1. Download a free trial http://www.adobe.com/sea/downloads.html

2. Play with it while watching training videos. There are hundreds out there and the Adobe offerings are a good start: https://blogs.adobe.com/jkost/lightroom-training-videos

[HarrySeaman]

I'm traveling so I can't give you links but Google for "B&H yahoo" then search for "Tim Grey".

Look for his Video tutorial on Organization in Lightroom 5 then on Optimazation in Lightroom 5.

I recommend organizing files in a top down structure, e.g. Photos - France -Paris - Louve 150623 where the photos would be in the last folder. 150623 is yymmdd.

Organize the LR collections the same way except you don't need a top level collection called Photos. Start with a Smart Collection called France then Smart Collection called Paris then a simple Collection called Louve. This way you get a sensible storage and Collections scheme that makes it easy to find photos.

[FracturedRabbit]

Why would you want to replicate what is held in the Lightroom database (and easily changed from within that database) with a physical file structure? Having a hierarchical file structure that attempts to organise photos is difficult to set up and maintain; and completely unnecessary given all the information held in Lightroom. Let's say you revisit the Louvre again; with some form of physical file structure you would have to hunt around to find the appropriate directory; by simply adding everything by date there is no thought required; just load up the photos and manage with Lightroom. And if you decide to re-organise the cataloguing of your photos, you can do it easily in Lightroom; but once you start moving around physical files in directories, you create a mess and lose the links into Lightroom.

I've got eight years of photos, all imported by date only and managed in Lightroom. I have never had the need to go back to the physical directories. Import the photos in the easiest manner possible and then forget about them; all the management happens in Lightroom.

[femi fan]

On the 4th question . . . check out Serge Ramelli on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/user/cmoeu

He's established, capable, popular & pretty much the best LR & PS guy offering quality video tutorials on the web.

Just watched a couple of his videos, nice. Thanks for the link! I'll watch more once i've got lightroom. MInd you, it just brought home to me how many things you can do in the develop module and how much one can alter a photo. I've always come from the angle of pretty much keeping the photo exactly as it is. Perhaps this lightroom might cause me a revolution of some sorts! I was also watching some anthony morganti which showed me the power of developing one's photos.

[femi fan]

Why would you want to replicate what is held in the Lightroom database (and easily changed from within that database) with a physical file structure? Having a hierarchical file structure that attempts to organise photos is difficult to set up and maintain; and completely unnecessary given all the information held in Lightroom. Let's say you revisit the Louvre again; with some form of physical file structure you would have to hunt around to find the appropriate directory; by simply adding everything by date there is no thought required; just load up the photos and manage with Lightroom. And if you decide to re-organise the cataloguing of your photos, you can do it easily in Lightroom; but once you start moving around physical files in directories, you create a mess and lose the links into Lightroom.

I've got eight years of photos, all imported by date only and managed in Lightroom. I have never had the need to go back to the physical directories. Import the photos in the easiest manner possible and then forget about them; all the management happens in Lightroom.

FR, many thanks for your considered replies, very useful. I do need to get my head around what you've said and make sure i completely understand things, so i'll return again if i may to clear up any confusions that i have left. There are some things i think i understand, but i don't want to be stuck with my assumptions! So just for now, taking your reply to Harry Seaman:

i) LR database and physical file structure - what is the difference? Do you mean by the physical file structure the main hard drive? But in any case, my understanding would be that i import all my photos into LR, and any organising into albums, folders, sub-folders, keywords etc etc i would simply do in LR. I would look at the LR library as if it was my harddrive structure and treat it as such, but obviously it's actually LR!

ii) I have always kept my main folders in iphotos (events) under the year and month date, eg 2015-08. I think this is what you're advocating for doing in LR, so if i was looking for the Louvre photos and couldn't remember when i took them, and therefore which date folder to look in, how would i find the pics in LR?

iii) Assumption: i always import my photos into LR and catalogue them there rather than on my hard drive. Some of those photos i like as is, some i develop and make changes to. My assumption is that the changes are kept in LR, and will not be listed anywhere on my hard drive. My further assumption is that my hard drive only has my intial photos without any LR changes. If, for example, i suddenly lost or got rid of LR, what would remain on my hard drive by way of my thousands of photos?

[femi fan]

The catalogues that reference all you photos are independent of the actual Lightroom program; so you could change between the subscription and stand-alone service without any disruption to your data.

What do you mean by 'independent' of? Am i not cataloguing everything on LR? By cataloguing i take this to mean my naming of folders and albums and directories and so on. Do you mean then that the catalogues i create are actually recorded in the main hard drive as opposed through specific software (ie LR)?

[FracturedRabbit]

Why would you want to replicate what is held in the Lightroom database (and easily changed from within that database) with a physical file structure? Having a hierarchical file structure that attempts to organise photos is difficult to set up and maintain; and completely unnecessary given all the information held in Lightroom. Let's say you revisit the Louvre again; with some form of physical file structure you would have to hunt around to find the appropriate directory; by simply adding everything by date there is no thought required; just load up the photos and manage with Lightroom. And if you decide to re-organise the cataloguing of your photos, you can do it easily in Lightroom; but once you start moving around physical files in directories, you create a mess and lose the links into Lightroom.

I've got eight years of photos, all imported by date only and managed in Lightroom. I have never had the need to go back to the physical directories. Import the photos in the easiest manner possible and then forget about them; all the management happens in Lightroom.

FR, many thanks for your considered replies, very useful. I do need to get my head around what you've said and make sure i completely understand things, so i'll return again if i may to clear up any confusions that i have left. There are some things i think i understand, but i don't want to be stuck with my assumptions! So just for now, taking your reply to Harry Seaman:

i) LR database and physical file structure - what is the difference? Do you mean by the physical file structure the main hard drive? But in any case, my understanding would be that i import all my photos into LR, and any organising into albums, folders, sub-folders, keywords etc etc i would simply do in LR. I would look at the LR library as if it was my harddrive structure and treat it as such, but obviously it's actually LR!

ii) I have always kept my main folders in iphotos (events) under the year and month date, eg 2015-08. I think this is what you're advocating for doing in LR, so if i was looking for the Louvre photos and couldn't remember when i took them, and therefore which date folder to look in, how would i find the pics in LR?

iii) Assumption: i always import my photos into LR and catalogue them there rather than on my hard drive. Some of those photos i like as is, some i develop and make changes to. My assumption is that the changes are kept in LR, and will not be listed anywhere on my hard drive. My further assumption is that my hard drive only has my intial photos without any LR changes. If, for example, i suddenly lost or got rid of LR, what would remain on my hard drive by way of my thousands of photos?

1. Yes, by the physical structure I mean what is held on the hard drive which, in my opinion, is unimportant as the Lightroom database is handling all the cataloguing. Your final sentence is correct, you do everything in Lightroom and any structures are built in LR.

2. That is what I am advocating. If you want specifics within a keyword (or any other variable), you can call up the metadata option in the Library module and sort on whatever you want. For example, I have 1822 photos taken at Nong Nooch Gardens. If I want to look at them by date, I go to Metadata and select date as one of the criteria. From this I can see I took 81 photos on Sunday 12th November 2006 (see image attached). You can sort metadata any way you wish. Want to see all shots you took at 1/125th second with a 100mm lens? No problem! Very useful on occasions.

3. Your assumptions are correct. Your hard drive contains your photos as originally imported, with no changes. If you got rid of LR, you would be left with your original photos. Of course, before getting rid of Lightroom, you could select all your photos and export all of them as full size photos in the format you want to a specified location, so you at least would have copies of all the work you had done. But if your were getting rid of Lightroom you would be presumably be using something else and would use some form of import facility (like iPhoto into Lightroom). But Lightroom is wonderful, you will want to use it for ever!

[FracturedRabbit]

The catalogues that reference all you photos are independent of the actual Lightroom program; so you could change between the subscription and stand-alone service without any disruption to your data.

What do you mean by 'independent' of? Am i not cataloguing everything on LR? By cataloguing i take this to mean my naming of folders and albums and directories and so on. Do you mean then that the catalogues i create are actually recorded in the main hard drive as opposed through specific software (ie LR)?

Sorry if I was not clear.

There are three components:

1. Your original images

2. The Lightroom application

3. The Lightroom catalogue which is a separate thing from the LR program. I actually keep my images, LR and application and LR catalogues on three separate hard drives.

The Lightroom program is either a stand-alone purchase or CC. I had the stand-alone version which accessed a catalogue I called "main". I then subscribed to CC which set up another version of the Lightroom application on my hard drive. I opened the Main catalogue in that version and deleted the stand-alone version of LR.

You only use on Lightroom application; but can, if you wish, have multiple catalogues, all of which are separate files on your computer.

Hope that helps.

[FracturedRabbit]

Probably some of my wording was misleading. When I say keywords, develop edits etc are held in Lightroom, they are actually held in a Lightroom catalogue file. The actual application that you see in your Mac application directory is not changed by the actions you carry out; everything is held in the catalogue which is a separate file. So, you do things in Lightroom, but everything you do is held in the catalogue.

Lightroom does give you the option to back up the catalogue at specified times. I never do this because the Mac Time Machine is saving the catalogue on a regular basis, so if the catalogue became corrupted (fingers crossed, it never has), then I can just load back an earlier version from Time Machine.

[tigerbeer]

great info in here guys. thanks for all those who contributed. I was looking to pay the 300 month usage for photoshop and lightroom but was also looking at ACDSEE pro 8 as a one time payment. how does LR and ACDSEE compare?

[sunshine51]

^^^ I use ACDSee as a photo management tool & very basic editor...for that it's quite good

whereas LR also has management utilities & for editing you can do much more with LR

than you can with ACDSee Ulitimate. That said ACDSee Ultimate is approaching LR...

but not yet there. I guess, in the end, it depends on what you want to do.

[samuijimmy]

Anyone else having problems with LightRoom? (6) All was fine, until yesterday and now I cannot upload with the Jeffrey plug in... for Picasa....

If I use Picasa direct the images will be too large for posting here !!! It says plug in is enabled.... but won't let anything upload....

I was going to try my Flickr account but that seems buggered too ????

Ideas anyone? I have read though trouble shooting but to no avail!

[samuijimmy]

Anyone else having problems with LightRoom? (6) All was fine, until yesterday and now I cannot upload with the Jeffrey plug in... for Picasa....

If I use Picasa direct the images will be too large for posting here !!! It says plug in is enabled.... but won't let anything upload....

I was going to try my Flickr account but that seems buggered too ????

Ideas anyone? I have read though trouble shooting but to no avail!

OK sorted! It a matter of coughing up more money !

Now I have numb bum ..... took hours to sort, and then finally upload images!

[samuijimmy]

I just want to say thank you to Tywais and Fimgirl, for sending me some info on how to get images to Flickr from LR...

I had a bit of success yesterday I did get ten images uploaded but it said I could not use an image extension when I tried to upload here, (Fimgirls last PM should help with that ) .... so I will work on it a bit more!!! .... maybe will get there yet!

Thanks guys!

[Beardog]

Try off of You tube anthonymorganti.com. He has a 50 part tutorial for Lightroom 5 & some of 6 or CC. I have all the Adobe classes & several other classrooms on Lightroom but I found Anthony Morganti's videos to be by far the best & he is interesting & really makes the learning curve much less to comprehend. Picasso is begginers 101 compared to lightroom. If you use with photoshop you can accomplish any post processing you need to do. Good luck. Takes a while to get down but sooooo worth it!