National Park Scam?

[nidieunimaitre]

I'm really tired of the "double pricing in Europe too" nonsense.

First of all, in Europe it is exception, not rule.

The most common exception is this:

Locals get a reduced price for local musea or parks.

When I go to a museum in my home city I pay less than someone from a neighbouring city.

And my Thai wife gets the same price reduction, that I get. (and that inhabitants of neighbouring cities do not get).

One can argue about the merits of this double pricing, but at least it is applied in a fair and transparent way, and most definitely not based on racist prejudice.

So what countries are these?? Just so I know which ones to stay away from, I'll spend my money elsewhere. But, most places in the US have a Senior Citizen or US Military or Veteran reduction in prices, I can ride any buss going anywhere on Oahu for $30 a month with my Senior Citizen discount, so maybe I am guilty as well.........

OK that does it, thanks for the information, Oahu is off my bucket list.

[MartinL]

Just Curious.........what price was on your Ticket?? I came up with that same situation in Kao Yai, my ticket said Forty Baht, I paid forty baht and drove away..........a guy came after me waving the ticket, saying '400 baht, 400 baht!!" he had drew another zero on the ticket price.............I just said "My Mi Tang, Pohm mai hai suka baht eek" He turned around and drove back to his desk.

Oh, sorry for the barroom Thai, thats the only way I know to say "No Way Jose, I aint paying a single baht more"

Now a poster says the Thai Govt has directed the 10 times the price tickets?? I would like to see an decree to that effect.

I'm sure you know that the extra 360 baht would have gone straight into his pocket, not to the park.

If they insist on charging Foreigner Price and you're OK to pay that, make sure the ticket they give you quotes the price you pay - printed on, not just scribbled with a pen, preferably a different colour from Thias' tickets. Anything else means they've admitted a Thai and given a ticket as such. No record of a foreigner ever entering the park no record of the thieves price being demanded & paid..

[MyFriend You]

I think its often down to interpretation of rules and how much some people seem to think they can get away with, I have always paid the Thai price for National Parks, Thai DL seemed to do the job, but if they turned funny I would be prepared to walk away rather than be ripped off.

I can remember going to Global once and when I wanted to pay by foreign debit card they suddenly wanted to charge a 30bt surcharge, I presented the shopping to trolly to the employee in front of me and left. The scheme seemed to have been dropped sharpishly as there was no problems next time.

Always be prepared for the unexpected here.

I was in our local Global about a month ago and the cashier told me they would have to charge me 3% for using a foreign credit card. I'd never noticed them doing it before and thought it must be a mistake. I was in the builders' merchant area and after that I went into the regular area to buy some other stuff. When I came to pay there, with the same card, there was no mention of there being a 3% surcharge.

When I got out of the store I compared both bills and they both had a 3% surcharge, the only difference being one cashier told me about the charge and the other didn't.

Actually they have been doing this for years - wouldn't even accept my Amex Platimum, I called Amex and reported them and they put them and Home Pro on their black list. Home Pro tried to charge me 3% for my Visa, and when I showed the Amex they said 5% for Amex. I once bought a $11,000 motorcycle with my Amex in the US no questions asked.

Apple store in Bangkok Ploenchit, did not try to charge me 3% - when I asked they simply said "We don't do that here, its illegal"

[Johnsy]

I went in on the north entrance yesterday. The normal ticket booth was closed and the rangers were doing the tickets. Thai people free, farang 400. I paid it, we went in and had a great time. Shitty? Yes. Not right? Yes. What can you do? Not a damn thing.

You sir are an idiot!

"What can you do?"

You tell them it's inappropriate and racist that they charge a foreigner a different price to a Thai person and you demand Thai price in a very load and offended voice and if that doesn't work you walk away and do not pay! If everyone did that this double standards of pricing and BS will finish overnight. I refuse to pay a different price based on where I'm from or what color I am, in my country that is called discrimination and is a jail-able offense!

[nidieunimaitre]

There is only 1 reason why Parks and other businesses use double pricing, in Thailand or in Farangland.

It is because they can get away with it - or at least, they think they can get away with it.

All based on greed.

But but but....

Thais pay the taxes to finance the parks?

- VAT is paid by everybody, including tourists

- Income tax is NOT paid by poor Thais, or by rich Thais - it is paid only by middle class Thais and legally working foreigners

This is the free market?

- No it is not! As a matter of fact, the existence of double pricing (in Thailand or Farangland) is a clear proof that the market is not free.

Of course to understand that you have to know what a free market is, as opposed to monopolies and cartels.

That applies even to discounts for pensioners, students, handicapped, etc.

But farangs are rich?

- Some are, some are not. Same is true for Thais.

- Since when do rich people pay more for the same goods and services than poor people? Imagine supermarkets applying this system.

[chrissables]

I sometimes dont get it. How many people on here complain about the Thai's not enforcing the law and when they do some foreigners still complain. OP both you and your gf are foreigners and should pay B 800, that is the law. I don't like double pricing either and thus stay away from any national park. But if I should ask for the Thai price I am putting pressure on the Thai official to break the law. Your assumption on your length of stay and you qualifying for the Thai price is funny. You can stay here for a 100 years and still not be a Thai and thus will still need to pay the foreign price. If other Asians get away with the Thai price goodluck to them.

I can see you don't get it, sorry for confusing you.

Please tell me a reference to it being law, rather than a rule that is sometimes observed and sometimes not. When exactly was it passed into law?

As stated a few times now, they had no way of knowing what nationality my girlfriend was prior to demanding the Thai price.

Its not really funny riding a bike for many hours to decide to turn away due to excessive prices. Maybe i was wrong not to check, but as i have ALREADY stated, this is the first time this has happened to me. Always my Thai language skills (not too good) and my driving licence have been good enough.

Good luck to you if you are ok being taken for a ride with extreme double pricing. I was just trying to let people know.

[chrissables]

Just Curious.........what price was on your Ticket?? I came up with that same situation in Kao Yai, my ticket said Forty Baht, I paid forty baht and drove away..........a guy came after me waving the ticket, saying '400 baht, 400 baht!!" he had drew another zero on the ticket price.............I just said "My Mi Tang, Pohm mai hai suka baht eek" He turned around and drove back to his desk.

Oh, sorry for the barroom Thai, thats the only way I know to say "No Way Jose, I aint paying a single baht more"

Now a poster says the Thai Govt has directed the 10 times the price tickets?? I would like to see an decree to that effect.

I did not pay and did not get the ticket.

[recom273]

To all the 'holier than thou' supporters of dual pricing ..

At Thai Muang national park last week, there were 2 notice boards, one in Thai, one in English each had a different price.

If there is nothing to be ashamed of here - then write it on the notice board, no need to disguise the truth.

[mihalis]

Yea off course, Thai cant tell if a Thai lady is Filipino or not..........

[fish fingers]

link is here http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g303922-d454888-Reviews-Khao_Yai_National_Park-Suphan_Buri_Suphan_Buri_Province.html

I see a couple of people have already left stinky reviews about the pricing

Come on lets add loads more

[chiang mai]

Yea off course, Thai cant tell if a Thai lady is Filipino or not..........

But interestingly, Indonesians can't tell the difference between their own nationals and Thai's, in fact, most countries in SE, can't tell the difference between many if not most of the regions native residents.

[nidieunimaitre]

Yea off course, Thai cant tell if a Thai lady is Filipino or not..........

We are in Europe now.

My wife - Thai - regularly asks Thai looking people if they are Thai.

Most are from the Filipines.

So, no, a Thai can not tell the difference by just looking at them.

[fish fingers]

A double pricing thread yet again?

If you've been here 'a long time', you should have got over it by now.

Have another sanctimonious beer.

[ggt]

Not a scam...but a scheme...to charge so much money that you will take your outrage to the internet...and excite more tourist to come and see what the commotion is all about...

There is also the side-affect as no Chinese will be visiting the National Parks because they have to pay at all...and there will not be a need to hire more Thais to clean up the park grounds as the Chinese will not be using them as a toilet...

[Lissos]

Somebody asked if there was anywhere else in the world that does this. Plenty. Maybe some will disagree, but in my experience the 'worst' of it for a foreigner begins on the map in India and then East from there.

I also find it is at its worst (as in most official) in cultures without (or not originally) Abrahamic rooted cultures. So,that is your Hindus and Buddhists (as lay people in a mass, not monks etc). Chinese, Tibetans,too.

[nidieunimaitre]

Somebody asked if there was anywhere else in the world that does this. Plenty. Maybe some will disagree, but in my experience the 'worst' of it for a foreigner begins on the map in India and then East from there.

I also find it is at its worst (as in most official) in cultures without (or not originally) Abrahamic rooted cultures. So,that is your Hindus and Buddhists (as lay people in a mass, not monks etc). Chinese, Tibetans,too.

You forgot 1 important religion / culture - and they are Abrahamic..... they even practice double pricing in Europe, where they run night - open shops.

[whaleboneman]

I think its often down to interpretation of rules and how much some people seem to think they can get away with, I have always paid the Thai price for National Parks, Thai DL seemed to do the job, but if they turned funny I would be prepared to walk away rather than be ripped off.

I can remember going to Global once and when I wanted to pay by foreign debit card they suddenly wanted to charge a 30bt surcharge, I presented the shopping to trolly to the employee in front of me and left. The scheme seemed to have been dropped sharpishly as there was no problems next time.

Always be prepared for the unexpected here.

So after spending your time shopping you left it all behind because of 30 baht? Amazing.

[whaleboneman]

I went in on the north entrance yesterday. The normal ticket booth was closed and the rangers were doing the tickets. Thai people free, farang 400. I paid it, we went in and had a great time. Shitty? Yes. Not right? Yes. What can you do? Not a damn thing.

You sir are an idiot!

"What can you do?"

You tell them it's inappropriate and racist that they charge a foreigner a different price to a Thai person and you demand Thai price in a very load and offended voice and if that doesn't work you walk away and do not pay! If everyone did that this double standards of pricing and BS will finish overnight. I refuse to pay a different price based on where I'm from or what color I am, in my country that is called discrimination and is a jail-able offense!

You may not want to go to California where they have state resident discounts at many attractions.

[1BADDAT]

I went in on the north entrance yesterday. The normal ticket booth was closed and the rangers were doing the tickets. Thai people free, farang 400. I paid it, we went in and had a great time. Shitty? Yes. Not right? Yes. What can you do? Not a damn thing.

You sir are an idiot!

"What can you do?"

You tell them it's inappropriate and racist that they charge a foreigner a different price to a Thai person and you demand Thai price in a very load and offended voice and if that doesn't work you walk away and do not pay! If everyone did that this double standards of pricing and BS will finish overnight. I refuse to pay a different price based on where I'm from or what color I am, in my country that is called discrimination and is a jail-able offense!

You may not want to go to California where they have state resident discounts at many attractions.

Or Colorado..where the locals get discounted passes to the mountains for skiing or snowboarding.

[chrissables]

Yea off course, Thai cant tell if a Thai lady is Filipino or not..........

For sure not when wearing a motorbike helmet and by not talking to her!

It's a problem when we go out to a restaurant, or travel and look for hotels. Because i will start asking for things in Thai and without fail they ignore me and start talking to her in Thai.

My girlfriend just keeps saying "i am not Thai" until they get the message and talk with me.

[cruisemonkey]

I look at it this way -

They have a right to charge a price difference for foreigner tourists (we don't pay Thai taxes). However, the amount of the difference - 10x - is ludicrous and there's nothing worth paying 400 baht to see in any Thai national park... so I don't go.

Of course, if you're an ex-pat resident paying taxes, you should get the Thai price.

Simple.

[MartinL]

I look at it this way -

They have a right to charge a price difference for foreigner tourists (we don't pay Thai taxes). However, the amount of the difference - 10x - is ludicrous and there's nothing worth paying 400 baht to see in any Thai national park... so I don't go.

Of course, if you're an ex-pat resident paying taxes, you should get the Thai price.

Simple.

I am obliged to pay the same taxes as any non-working Thai person. My wife pays income tax, just as the spouse of a non-working Thai might.

[chrissables]

I look at it this way -

They have a right to charge a price difference for foreigner tourists (we don't pay Thai taxes). However, the amount of the difference - 10x - is ludicrous and there's nothing worth paying 400 baht to see in any Thai national park... so I don't go.

Of course, if you're an ex-pat resident paying taxes, you should get the Thai price.

Simple.

Sure they can charge what they like, but common sense says be fair if they want returning customers.

Actually anyone living or holidaying here pays taxes. The VAT is charged on everything we buy.

Most Thai do not pay taxes too except through VAT, only those working for legitimate company's and on a payroll will do so.

[MJKT2014]

It's not double pricing at NP's but 2000% pricing discrimination when a Thai pays 20THB and a foreigner 400THB on a weekday.

What is more annoying are the commercial outlets such as fun parks which are supposedly not a state run enterprise anyway, charging more based on race.

[BudRight]

I went in on the north entrance yesterday. The normal ticket booth was closed and the rangers were doing the tickets. Thai people free, farang 400. I paid it, we went in and had a great time. Shitty? Yes. Not right? Yes. What can you do? Not a damn thing.

You sir are an idiot!

"What can you do?"

You tell them it's inappropriate and racist that they charge a foreigner a different price to a Thai person and you demand Thai price in a very load and offended voice and if that doesn't work you walk away and do not pay! If everyone did that this double standards of pricing and BS will finish overnight. I refuse to pay a different price based on where I'm from or what color I am, in my country that is called discrimination and is a jail-able offense!

You may not want to go to California where they have state resident discounts at many attractions.

Or Colorado..where the locals get discounted passes to the mountains for skiing or snowboarding.

In Colorado local Thais would pay local prices. In Thailand it is based on race, not residency. It is indefensible.

[nidieunimaitre]

I look at it this way -

They have a right to charge a price difference for foreigner tourists (we don't pay Thai taxes). However, the amount of the difference - 10x - is ludicrous and there's nothing worth paying 400 baht to see in any Thai national park... so I don't go.

Of course, if you're an ex-pat resident paying taxes, you should get the Thai price.

Simple.

I pay VAT = Value added TAX.

I do not pay income tax, true, but how many Thais pay income tax?

[claffey]

By the way many countries charge double prices to foreigners.In Europe we also do it but we are more subtle.In the UK many of the top tourist destinations have ridiculous prices.They only sell yearly passes.In effect this is double pricing as foreigners on holidays for two weeks are not gonna have the opportunity to go again but residents will...Thailand is not subtle but at least we know they are doing it!!

Is this just some rubbish off the top of your head ?!

First this is about thialand not the world.

Second , which places in europe charge more for foreigners ? Easy to post usless wrong information if you do not name any places with double pricing in europe.

My wife has been to uk with me twice and we went all over uk and everywhere we went we were charged the same , ie alton towers , oakwood in wales , tower of london , london eye , madame tussauds , museums free for foreigners , library internet free for foreigners ,all national parks free for foreigners.

What yearly tourist attractions only have yearly passes ? I have never heard of one .Been to lots of water parks ,leisure centres always paid the same.

I have been to disneyland in paris and florida never seen dual pricing except i read something in florida that locals could get in cheaper as they have to put up with the hassle .

Always somebody to slag of uk to make thailand not seem so bad.

I will never pay more than my wife as when i went to koh samed a few years ago and they wanted 400 baht from me and 40 from my wife to keep the island clean i was told . The fact the thais make it dirty seemed to escape them , I got back on the boat with my wife and also 2 american women would not pay and the 4 of us went elsewhere and koh samed lost out. Grand palace wanted 800 baht from me , free for wife . I waited outside. Thai boxing match wanted 1600baht from me(800) for thai i never went in , siam waterworld 400 baht for wife 800 for me . Never went in and same with lots of places . I never get upset i just walk away and go some other place .

dazzz

Wow..All those family days out ruined by your principles.Hope it was worth it!!

[Tomtomtom69]

If they start charging me 10 X the price of a Thai, I will probably take a massive dump on the floor of their toilets, make em work for it! Greedy fools. Applying Western logic in this place can never apply, the way we Westerners (or at least me) used to look at it was, "Jesus are these people for real? They are going to kill the goose that laid the golden egg type of thing, they are hammering their income by overcharging scamming robbing the people that come here and spend money.

My personal opinion is that those in charge don't give a flying F$$K whether they lose income from foreigners in the least, they in many cases hate us and are embarrassed that they are not on the same social level as Western countries.

In a lot of ways, they would probably be happier if we all just left.

And given the current political situation, when they kick out all of the foreigners, they would be pretty happy to just behave like the Khmer Rouge, all of the peasants in their minds would be sent for re education or death camps. The problem as far as I see it is that they cannot quite balance the cash, they need international help, but as soon as they became truly independent or able to break away, this place would make North Korea look like Butlins!

Maybe you should tell them that if any of them ever come to your country, you will charge them more too compared to locals and will apply racial profiling to determine whether or not they are locals, just like is done here, tit for tat. I wonder what their reaction would be.

[Tomtomtom69]

By the way many countries charge double prices to foreigners.In Europe we also do it but we are more subtle.In the UK many of the top tourist destinations have ridiculous prices.They only sell yearly passes.In effect this is double pricing as foreigners on holidays for two weeks are not gonna have the opportunity to go again but residents will...Thailand is not subtle but at least we know they are doing it!!

Is this just some rubbish off the top of your head ?!

First this is about thialand not the world.

Second , which places in europe charge more for foreigners ? Easy to post usless wrong information if you do not name any places with double pricing in europe.

My wife has been to uk with me twice and we went all over uk and everywhere we went we were charged the same , ie alton towers , oakwood in wales , tower of london , london eye , madame tussauds , museums free for foreigners , library internet free for foreigners ,all national parks free for foreigners.

What yearly tourist attractions only have yearly passes ? I have never heard of one .Been to lots of water parks ,leisure centres always paid the same.

I have been to disneyland in paris and florida never seen dual pricing except i read something in florida that locals could get in cheaper as they have to put up with the hassle .

Always somebody to slag of uk to make thailand not seem so bad.

I will never pay more than my wife as when i went to koh samed a few years ago and they wanted 400 baht from me and 40 from my wife to keep the island clean i was told . The fact the thais make it dirty seemed to escape them , I got back on the boat with my wife and also 2 american women would not pay and the 4 of us went elsewhere and koh samed lost out. Grand palace wanted 800 baht from me , free for wife . I waited outside. Thai boxing match wanted 1600baht from me(800) for thai i never went in , siam waterworld 400 baht for wife 800 for me . Never went in and same with lots of places . I never get upset i just walk away and go some other place .

dazzz

Wow..All those family days out ruined by your principles.Hope it was worth it!!

No, his family days would have been ruined by the thought of getting racially discriminated going through his mind the entire time he were inside a national park or boxing match or wherever.

It is much better for one's health and sanity to stay away from dual pricing places and may perhaps get the authorities to one day "click" and say..."hey, wait a minute, maybe our dual pricing policy is keeping foreign visitors away". As a country dependant on tourism with an estimated 10% direct GDP contribution and perhaps up to 17% if indirect sources are included coming from tourism, according to a news report from Channel News Asia, Thailand can't really afford to shoot itself in the foot like this. Most foreigners going to the Grand Palace are oblivious to all of this as they probably assume everyone pays to enter, but once they know the reality they probably wish they didn't go in. Quite a number of backpackers staying at nearby Khao San road would never pay 800?! Baht to enter a temple. That 800 Baht might represent 2 nights at a hostel, or numerous bottles of beer. When I told my backpacker friends from Norway and Spain about the Grand Palace entrance fee being 500 Baht (I didn't know it had increased to 800 Baht?) they were SHOCKED and immediately crossed it off their list.

Personally I'd much rather go to the beach with my family, enjoying a picnic than waste my hard earned money on some overpriced, ordinary Thai tourist attraction. If I wanted to take the kids to an amusement park, there's always the water parks in Khon Kaen and Hua Hin that don't practice dual pricing, or otherwise I might as well head to Singapore and take them to Universal Studios...much more interesting than only staying in Thailand. If you're already living in Thailand you might as well spend your holidays in neighboring countries - there's so much to explore and it's much better value for money than travelling in Thailand. Not to mention that Thailand is such a small country you can be in Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar or Malaysia, depending on which part of Thailand you're in, in a matter of just a few hours at most or a 50-minute plane ride.

[Tomtomtom69]

Yea off course, Thai cant tell if a Thai lady is Filipino or not..........

For sure not when wearing a motorbike helmet and by not talking to her!

It's a problem when we go out to a restaurant, or travel and look for hotels. Because i will start asking for things in Thai and without fail they ignore me and start talking to her in Thai.

My girlfriend just keeps saying "i am not Thai" until they get the message and talk with me.

Depends how good your Thai is. I'm fluent in Thai and have often travelled in Thailand with my Vietnamese friend who neither lives here nor speaks more than 2 words of Thai. No one ever looks at him because my Thai is good enough so they just continue conversing only with me. Only in places like Myanmar or Cambodia where neither of us speak the local lingo do locals sometimes look at him first or assume he doesn't speak English and then speak Burmese/Khmer with him. I always point out that neither of us speak the language (in order to get across the point that it's quite possible for western foreigners to speak an Asian language while an Asian can't speak that language). After all, imagine if we all started asking Asians in our countries to explain why they can speak English so well? Similarly, it's possible to meet a Russian in Australia who speaks shitty English, while a Chinese-Australian speaks perfect English.

Unfortunately, back in 2005 on his first trip to Thailand and when my Thai was considerably less good than now, we both went to a national park in Lampang province. I was driving, he was sleeping. I asked for 2 tickets and got one foreigner ticket and one Thai ticket, which I had only noticed after driving on for a few meters. I was disappointed, and no I did not assume that they thought I was Thai and he was a foreigner. Back then I didn't have a Thai driver's licence either. Unfortunately, racial profiling was most likely at work and they made no attempt to find out if he was Thai by asking for his ID card. They charged me more than him, despite me being the Thai speaker (I believe my Thai pronunciation and fluency was already decent enough even at that time to do basic things like ask for directions and order food etc. so the national park office had no problem understanding me).