Briton dies on family road trip in Thailand, 11 injured

[Rimmer]

A couple of off topic posts have been removed

[MiKT]

Nighttime is the best time to drive , nice and cooler , no awful sun beating down on your windshield , shining in your eyes and the people in the back of the truck are not in the blistering heat. Far less trafic.

It makes sence to drive in the night and take the ferry in the morning to have the whole day for their holiday.

What a ridiculous comment. Are you Thai?

Come on, modern cars have air-conditioning and you won't even notice the outside heat when driving. Also, have you heard of a sun visor? It's that thing you pull down so the sun doesn't get in your face, but when is that ever a problem anyway? Only for like 20 mins in the morning if driving east or 20 mins in the evening if driving west.

It makes much more sense to start driving early morning then arriving in the evening perhaps somewhere close to the ferry pier, or if you start early enough it might even be possible to arrive in Koh Chang the same day.

People shouldn't really be sitting in the back of a truck, especially not for a 12-hour journey. But even if they do, well they should cover their bodies to avoid sunburn.

No its not ridiculous, its frequently much safer to drive late at night in Thailand as there is much less traffic, especially heavy lorries that are banned in many places at night and despite the not infrequent driver with no/low lights, especially motorcycles, it is generally easier to see others overtaking around bends, etc. If you are driving in an area where you know there are animals like elephants you need to take special care, but there are many less stray dogs around now than there were 15/20 years ago.You still get the odd very slow lorry and the dreaded unlit farm carts, but these are normally encountered in the evening. The poor family that are the subject of this post were surely tired trying to get to the ferry and probably had swapped drivers several times their long journey. Typical of right turn accidents in many countries. Very Sorry for all the kids, but its the only way for many poor families to get a holiday by packing everyone into the pickup.

especially heavy lorries that are banned in many places at night

I like driving at night, but the roads are full of trucks.

Thai roads are dangerous 24 hours a day.

Hello MiKT, there are actually MORE trucks driving at night, not less. Also, there is not much less traffic at night, especially not on the trunk routes. Ever been on Mittraphap highway up to Kaeng Khoi? There will always be a stream of trucks and buses crawling up what is not really a major incline at 30km/h and this causes major traffic woes. Even at 3am, there is as much traffic as at 9am or 3pm, there is really not much discernable difference. During holiday periods 1am tends to be a worse time to be travelling that road than 1pm! Only in Thailand hey!

While I try to avoid night time driving, many times have I found myself only getting to my destination around midnight (if I'm heading home) although if I'm stopping off along the way at a hotel I usually stop driving by 9 or 10pm. However, Thailand isn't that big so most of the time I manage to get to wherever I'm going in one day and arriving by early evening if I leave early enough that day. Typically I might drive to such places as Vientiane or Pakse in Laos in one day and they're no longer even in Thailand, so if that's possible, one should be able to reach most parts of Thailand in one day if you leave early enough, without needing to drive into the night.

And as far as elephants are concerned? LOL. Thailand has virtually no more wild elephants left. There are only a couple of places in Thailand I'd even be concerned about elephants: Khao Yai national park (now who would drive through there at night?!) and places like Sangkhlaburi near the Burmese border in Kanchanaburi. But the elephants there are no longer wild, they are domesticated and are used as work machines. So while you might find one or two along the road during the day, they will be working alongside their mahouts, but make a good photo op.

Ah, sorry about this, I tried to reply to your post and tommytuckers, but my reply ended up attached to an unrelated post on page 14. Such are the vagaries of small keyboards on telephones and big fingers. Oh well into each life a little rain etc. Main points, to put it bluntly. Bullshit if think there is less traffic in the day in Thailand and lorries can drive into KT at night, you must be on something good (and probably illegal). I hope I am never on the road when you are driving. Check out what I said about wild elephants. If you think there are none. Wait till one chases you and tell it it is a figment of my imagination. See if that helps. Get out and about, put up with the bad driving (sure you will improve with practice) put up with the inevitable accidents and scapes and see more of Thailand. Have a nice day. 555.

[MiKT]

I fail to see how stating the "bleedin' obvious" contributes i anyway to the discussion.

Anyone who has spent time in Thailand could write a litany of apparently dangerous aberrant behaviour exhibited on the roads of Thailand, but it seems that most people on this thread have no idea why these incidents occur or even any interest in learning about road safety.

To them it is just an opportunity to say something rude about the people of Thailand or make infantile, prejudiced judgements about their ability to drive; statements which, for the most part, are based on the false assumption that they the posters are vastly superior in their own motoring skills.

nothing could be further from the truth.

I fail to see how stating the "bleedin' obvious" contributes i anyway to the discussion.

LOL. IMO a lot of posters are on here because a/ we're addicted to the internet and muttering on TV is as good a way of being on it as any b/ because we have a lot of time to fill in and muttering on TV is as good a way to fill in time as any.

FGS does it really matter if someone makes an observation about how many people they've seen in a pickup? It's not like 99.9% of the threads are about life changing subjects.

I think we're on the same page here and both realise it is a totally facile comment.

What this does is underline how shallow the thinking and poor the knowledge of road safety is on this and other threads - - - people have no idea about the causes and effects of these tragic events and simply stating how many people they have seen in a pickup is meaningless without any real implications and ignores the personal and human side as well.

Best thing any driver can do is study defensive driving and put it into practice. I studied the British police defensive driving book- excellent.

However, in LOS surviving any trip is often down to pure luck, given the maniacs on the roads.

My serious accident happened when I was virtually stationary and a rider drove into me because he was looking over his shoulder and not where he was going. It's hard to take evasive action when you don't know which way the idiot is going to go if he actually looks in front of himself.

If you try true defensive driving in the los you will spend your entire life driving at 20kph behind a huge lorry. The only way to be safe here is 'more offensive driving than the maniac trying to kill you' - ie all Thai drivers. To very bady paraphrase Sir W. Churchill - Drive quietly and drive a BIG pick-up.

[cumgranosalum]

LOL. IMO a lot of posters are on here because a/ we're addicted to the internet and muttering on TV is as good a way of being on it as any b/ because we have a lot of time to fill in and muttering on TV is as good a way to fill in time as any.

FGS does it really matter if someone makes an observation about how many people they've seen in a pickup? It's not like 99.9% of the threads are about life changing subjects.

I think we're on the same page here and both realise it is a totally facile comment.

What this does is underline how shallow the thinking and poor the knowledge of road safety is on this and other threads - - - people have no idea about the causes and effects of these tragic events and simply stating how many people they have seen in a pickup is meaningless without any real implications and ignores the personal and human side as well.

Best thing any driver can do is study defensive driving and put it into practice. I studied the British police defensive driving book- excellent.

However, in LOS surviving any trip is often down to pure luck, given the maniacs on the roads.

My serious accident happened when I was virtually stationary and a rider drove into me because he was looking over his shoulder and not where he was going. It's hard to take evasive action when you don't know which way the idiot is going to go if he actually looks in front of himself.

If you try true defensive driving in the los you will spend your entire life driving at 20kph behind a huge lorry. The only way to be safe here is 'more offensive driving than the maniac trying to kill you' - ie all Thai drivers. To very bady paraphrase Sir W. Churchill - Drive quietly and drive a BIG pick-up.

It is clear from this post that the poster has no idea what "defensive driving" is. Read roadcraft to find out.

I will concede that it is in fact a rather poor expression that fails to fully get across the philosophy behind it.

[cumgranosalum]

Nighttime is the best time to drive , nice and cooler , no awful sun beating down on your windshield , shining in your eyes and the people in the back of the truck are not in the blistering heat. Far less trafic.

It makes sence to drive in the night and take the ferry in the morning to have the whole day for their holiday.

What a ridiculous comment. Are you Thai?

Come on, modern cars have air-conditioning and you won't even notice the outside heat when driving. Also, have you heard of a sun visor? It's that thing you pull down so the sun doesn't get in your face, but when is that ever a problem anyway? Only for like 20 mins in the morning if driving east or 20 mins in the evening if driving west.

It makes much more sense to start driving early morning then arriving in the evening perhaps somewhere close to the ferry pier, or if you start early enough it might even be possible to arrive in Koh Chang the same day.

People shouldn't really be sitting in the back of a truck, especially not for a 12-hour journey. But even if they do, well they should cover their bodies to avoid sunburn.

No its not ridiculous, its frequently much safer to drive late at night in Thailand as there is much less traffic, especially heavy lorries that are banned in many places at night and despite the not infrequent driver with no/low lights, especially motorcycles, it is generally easier to see others overtaking around bends, etc. If you are driving in an area where you know there are animals like elephants you need to take special care, but there are many less stray dogs around now than there were 15/20 years ago.You still get the odd very slow lorry and the dreaded unlit farm carts, but these are normally encountered in the evening. The poor family that are the subject of this post were surely tired trying to get to the ferry and probably had swapped drivers several times their long journey. Typical of right turn accidents in many countries. Very Sorry for all the kids, but its the only way for many poor families to get a holiday by packing everyone into the pickup.

especially heavy lorries that are banned in many places at night

I like driving at night, but the roads are full of trucks.

Thai roads are dangerous 24 hours a day.

Hello MiKT, there are actually MORE trucks driving at night, not less. Also, there is not much less traffic at night, especially not on the trunk routes. Ever been on Mittraphap highway up to Kaeng Khoi? There will always be a stream of trucks and buses crawling up what is not really a major incline at 30km/h and this causes major traffic woes. Even at 3am, there is as much traffic as at 9am or 3pm, there is really not much discernable difference. During holiday periods 1am tends to be a worse time to be travelling that road than 1pm! Only in Thailand hey!

While I try to avoid night time driving, many times have I found myself only getting to my destination around midnight (if I'm heading home) although if I'm stopping off along the way at a hotel I usually stop driving by 9 or 10pm. However, Thailand isn't that big so most of the time I manage to get to wherever I'm going in one day and arriving by early evening if I leave early enough that day. Typically I might drive to such places as Vientiane or Pakse in Laos in one day and they're no longer even in Thailand, so if that's possible, one should be able to reach most parts of Thailand in one day if you leave early enough, without needing to drive into the night.

And as far as elephants are concerned? LOL. Thailand has virtually no more wild elephants left. There are only a couple of places in Thailand I'd even be concerned about elephants: Khao Yai national park (now who would drive through there at night?!) and places like Sangkhlaburi near the Burmese border in Kanchanaburi. But the elephants there are no longer wild, they are domesticated and are used as work machines. So while you might find one or two along the road during the day, they will be working alongside their mahouts, but make a good photo op.

Ah, sorry about this, I tried to reply to your post and tommytuckers, but my reply ended up attached to an unrelated post on page 14. Such are the vagaries of small keyboards on telephones and big fingers. Oh well into each life a little rain etc. Main points, to put it bluntly. Bullshit if think there is less traffic in the day in Thailand and lorries can drive into KT at night, you must be on something good (and probably illegal). I hope I am never on the road when you are driving. Check out what I said about wild elephants. If you think there are none. Wait till one chases you and tell it it is a figment of my imagination. See if that helps. Get out and about, put up with the bad driving (sure you will improve with practice) put up with the inevitable accidents and scapes and see more of Thailand. Have a nice day. 555.

"There are only a couple of places in Thailand I'd even be concerned about elephants:" then both your knowledge of Thailand and your driving skills are severely lacking.

[MiKT]

Nighttime is the best time to drive , nice and cooler , no awful sun beating down on your windshield , shining in your eyes and the people in the back of the truck are not in the blistering heat. Far less trafic.

It makes sence to drive in the night and take the ferry in the morning to have the whole day for their holiday.

What a ridiculous comment. Are you Thai?

Come on, modern cars have air-conditioning and you won't even notice the outside heat when driving. Also, have you heard of a sun visor? It's that thing you pull down so the sun doesn't get in your face, but when is that ever a problem anyway? Only for like 20 mins in the morning if driving east or 20 mins in the evening if driving west.

It makes much more sense to start driving early morning then arriving in the evening perhaps somewhere close to the ferry pier, or if you start early enough it might even be possible to arrive in Koh Chang the same day.

People shouldn't really be sitting in the back of a truck, especially not for a 12-hour journey. But even if they do, well they should cover their bodies to avoid sunburn.

No its not ridiculous, its frequently much safer to drive late at night in Thailand as there is much less traffic, especially heavy lorries that are banned in many places at night and despite the not infrequent driver with no/low lights, especially motorcycles, it is generally easier to see others overtaking around bends, etc. If you are driving in an area where you know there are animals like elephants you need to take special care, but there are many less stray dogs around now than there were 15/20 years ago.You still get the odd very slow lorry and the dreaded unlit farm carts, but these are normally encountered in the evening. The poor family that are the subject of this post were surely tired trying to get to the ferry and probably had swapped drivers several times their long journey. Typical of right turn accidents in many countries. Very Sorry for all the kids, but its the only way for many poor families to get a holiday by packing everyone into the pickup.

especially heavy lorries that are banned in many places at night

I like driving at night, but the roads are full of trucks.

Thai roads are dangerous 24 hours a day.

Hello MiKT, there are actually MORE trucks driving at night, not less. Also, there is not much less traffic at night, especially not on the trunk routes. Ever been on Mittraphap highway up to Kaeng Khoi? There will always be a stream of trucks and buses crawling up what is not really a major incline at 30km/h and this causes major traffic woes. Even at 3am, there is as much traffic as at 9am or 3pm, there is really not much discernable difference. During holiday periods 1am tends to be a worse time to be travelling that road than 1pm! Only in Thailand hey!

While I try to avoid night time driving, many times have I found myself only getting to my destination around midnight (if I'm heading home) although if I'm stopping off along the way at a hotel I usually stop driving by 9 or 10pm. However, Thailand isn't that big so most of the time I manage to get to wherever I'm going in one day and arriving by early evening if I leave early enough that day. Typically I might drive to such places as Vientiane or Pakse in Laos in one day and they're no longer even in Thailand, so if that's possible, one should be able to reach most parts of Thailand in one day if you leave early enough, without needing to drive into the night.

And as far as elephants are concerned? LOL. Thailand has virtually no more wild elephants left. There are only a couple of places in Thailand I'd even be concerned about elephants: Khao Yai national park (now who would drive through there at night?!) and places like Sangkhlaburi near the Burmese border in Kanchanaburi. But the elephants there are no longer wild, they are domesticated and are used as work machines. So while you might find one or two along the road during the day, they will be working alongside their mahouts, but make a good photo op.

Ah, sorry about this, I tried to reply to your post and tommytuckers, but my reply ended up attached to an unrelated post on page 14. Such are the vagaries of small keyboards on telephones and big fingers. Oh well into each life a little rain etc. Main points, to put it bluntly. Bullshit if think there is less traffic in the day in Thailand and lorries can drive into KT at night, you must be on something good (and probably illegal). I hope I am never on the road when you are driving. Check out what I said about wild elephants. If you think there are none. Wait till one chases you and tell it it is a figment of my imagination. See if that helps. Get out and about, put up with the bad driving (sure you will improve with practice) put up with the inevitable accidents and scapes and see more of Thailand. Have a nice day. 555.

"There are only a couple of places in Thailand I'd even be concerned about elephants:" then both your knowledge of Thailand and your driving skills are severely lacking.

Right, Right, I have only been here for 20 years and travelled all over and only been driving for 54 years in over 40 different countries. I guess you have never been chased by a Thai ele. I will send you a pic next time I get of this dammed phone.Cheers.

[MiKT]

LOL. IMO a lot of posters are on here because a/ we're addicted to the internet and muttering on TV is as good a way of being on it as any b/ because we have a lot of time to fill in and muttering on TV is as good a way to fill in time as any.

FGS does it really matter if someone makes an observation about how many people they've seen in a pickup? It's not like 99.9% of the threads are about life changing subjects.

I think we're on the same page here and both realise it is a totally facile comment.

What this does is underline how shallow the thinking and poor the knowledge of road safety is on this and other threads - - - people have no idea about the causes and effects of these tragic events and simply stating how many people they have seen in a pickup is meaningless without any real implications and ignores the personal and human side as well.

Best thing any driver can do is study defensive driving and put it into practice. I studied the British police defensive driving book- excellent.

However, in LOS surviving any trip is often down to pure luck, given the maniacs on the roads.

My serious accident happened when I was virtually stationary and a rider drove into me because he was looking over his shoulder and not where he was going. It's hard to take evasive action when you don't know which way the idiot is going to go if he actually looks in front of himself.

If you try true defensive driving in the los you will spend your entire life driving at 20kph behind a huge lorry. The only way to be safe here is 'more offensive driving than the maniac trying to kill you' - ie all Thai drivers. To very bady paraphrase Sir W. Churchill - Drive quietly and drive a BIG pick-up.

It is clear from this post that the poster has no idea what "defensive driving" is. Read roadcraft to find out.

I will concede that it is in fact a rather poor expression that fails to fully get across the philosophy behind it.

Its even more clear that: a) you don't have a sense of humour. don't know much about driving in Thailand.

[cumgranosalum]

Driving at night - again people just make wild assumptions based on their own limited, misleading observations.

Driving at night is dangerous as humans cannot see well in the dark ...(this might also account for the imperfect observations by some posters on this thread)

Firstly most accidents happen in urban areas

The traffic density is much less at night.

Private vehicles reduce even more than commercial vehicles so the numbers of both are down but the percentage of commercial vehicles is up.

The lowest time for accidents is between midnight and 6 am. Rush hours are the high points with 6 pm to 9 pm being the worst (drunk drivers most common)

[MiKT]

LOL. IMO a lot of posters are on here because a/ we're addicted to the internet and muttering on TV is as good a way of being on it as any b/ because we have a lot of time to fill in and muttering on TV is as good a way to fill in time as any.

FGS does it really matter if someone makes an observation about how many people they've seen in a pickup? It's not like 99.9% of the threads are about life changing subjects.

I think we're on the same page here and both realise it is a totally facile comment.

What this does is underline how shallow the thinking and poor the knowledge of road safety is on this and other threads - - - people have no idea about the causes and effects of these tragic events and simply stating how many people they have seen in a pickup is meaningless without any real implications and ignores the personal and human side as well.

Best thing any driver can do is study defensive driving and put it into practice. I studied the British police defensive driving book- excellent.

However, in LOS surviving any trip is often down to pure luck, given the maniacs on the roads.

My serious accident happened when I was virtually stationary and a rider drove into me because he was looking over his shoulder and not where he was going. It's hard to take evasive action when you don't know which way the idiot is going to go if he actually looks in front of himself.

If you try true defensive driving in the los you will spend your entire life driving at 20kph behind a huge lorry. The only way to be safe here is 'more offensive driving than the maniac trying to kill you' - ie all Thai drivers. To very bady paraphrase Sir W. Churchill - Drive quietly and drive a BIG pick-up.

It is clear from this post that the poster has no idea what "defensive driving" is. Read roadcraft to find out.

I will concede that it is in fact a rather poor expression that fails to fully get across the philosophy behind it.

Its even more clear that: a) you don't have a sense of humour. don't know much about driving in Thailand.

Now I am going to stop posting on this topic as it was about a poor family that was killed and injured going on holiday. It could happen to any of us, no matter how long we have been in Thailand or how defensively we drive. Its a dangerous place. I just hope none of us end up the subject of so much hostility and unpleasant comments.

[balo]

Driving at night - again people just make wild assumptions based on their own limited, misleading observations.

Driving at night is dangerous as humans cannot see well in the dark ...(this might also account for the imperfect observations by some posters on this thread)

Firstly most accidents happen in urban areas

The traffic density is much less at night.

Private vehicles reduce even more than commercial vehicles so the numbers of both are down but the percentage of commercial vehicles is up.

The lowest time for accidents is between midnight and 6 am. Rush hours are the high points with 6 pm to 9 pm being the worst (drunk drivers most common)

Please show me statistics over deadly accidents in Thailand , at which times it happens. And I am not talking about Songkran where people drive like crazy 24/7 but the weekly , most deadly accidents.

I read the Thai news every day. My observations is that 8 out of 10 deadly accidents in the Pattaya area happens after midniight and before 6 AM.

And I do not count "normal " accidents where people end up in the hospital still alive.

No , the deadly ones , where speed is a part of it and drugs, alcohol ,concentration etc.

So my challenge to you is to show me the statistics to prove your point if you can find one,

Edited August 12, 2015 by metisdead
2. Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording. Such posts will be deleted and the user warned.

[cumgranosalum]

Driving at night - again people just make wild assumptions based on their own limited, misleading observations.

Driving at night is dangerous as humans cannot see well in the dark ...(this might also account for the imperfect observations by some posters on this thread)

Firstly most accidents happen in urban areas

The traffic density is much less at night.

Private vehicles reduce even more than commercial vehicles so the numbers of both are down but the percentage of commercial vehicles is up.

The lowest time for accidents is between midnight and 6 am. Rush hours are the high points with 6 pm to 9 pm being the worst (drunk drivers most common)

Please show me statistics over deadly accidents in Thailand , at which times it happens. And I am not talking about Songkran where people drive like crazy 24/7 but the weekly , most deadly accidents.

I read the Thai news every day. My observations is that 8 out of 10 deadly accidents in the Pattaya area happens after midniight and before 6 AM.

And I do not count "normal " accidents where people end up in the hospital still alive.

No , the deadly ones , where speed is a part of it and drugs, alcohol ,concentration etc.

So my challenge to you is to show me the statistics to prove your point if you can find one,

"Please show me statistics over deadly accidents in Thailand , at which times it happens. And I am not talking about Songkran where people drive like crazy 24/7 but the weekly , most deadly accidents. "

Typical...always the response of someone with no argument.

If you want to take part in the discussion get some ideas of your own....and dfo the research yourself. s yet it is pretty clear you have no idea about road safety

if you want to come to the discussion get up to speed before you start making your own baseless comments.

i'm not your teacher.

Your observation are worthless "Thai News"?? - just goes to show how little you appreciate how to evaluate a source...... - the plural of anecdote is not data...get familiar with the figures yourself read some papers and don't think than one search on Google equals research.

if you don't believe me then that is your problem not mine.

BTW - you re wrong about Song Khran too where some stats show a drop in the national deathrate over that preiod...just the same as Christmas in th UK.....but then you have no background in this topic.

and basing your assumptions on Pattaya? Come on! Even you should realise how weak that is.

At the end of the day if you don't believe me then that is your problem not mine.

[DJVillain]

...and as for those who think by using expressions like "no concept of awareness" or "spatial awareness" they are making a some valid point as if inserting some pseudo-scientific phrases gives it some kind of gravitas when it has no real meaning at all...come on! Why not learn something about what you are posting on before writing total nonsense?

(you can almost hear them running to google now!)

PS - "proceed cautiously at traffic lights - well what would you do in other countries?? Just blithely drive on without a care in the world? You need to review your driving skills...and pronto.

There was no pseudo science in what I posted pal... None at all...

Bottom line is that the swerving between lanes without checking surroundings, no use of the indicators to let other people know what they are doing, packing too many people into a car or minibus to make more money/save time, cramming cars onto an intersection when the lights go red even if they aren't turning right (which then just means nobody else can move) and running red lights are ALL prime examples of discourteous behaviour towards other road users.

If Thailand didn't hand out driving licenses like candy and people had to actually pass a test... a proper test after lessons where you are taught to open your eyes, survey your surroundings and give a shit about what other people are doing, show courtesy to other road users and have common sense, then maybe accidents like the one in the article wouldn't have happened...

[cumgranosalum]

...and as for those who think by using expressions like "no concept of awareness" or "spatial awareness" they are making a some valid point as if inserting some pseudo-scientific phrases gives it some kind of gravitas when it has no real meaning at all...come on! Why not learn something about what you are posting on before writing total nonsense?

(you can almost hear them running to google now!)

PS - "proceed cautiously at traffic lights - well what would you do in other countries?? Just blithely drive on without a care in the world? You need to review your driving skills...and pronto.

There was no pseudo science in what I posted pal... None at all...

Bottom line is that the swerving between lanes without checking surroundings, no use of the indicators to let other people know what they are doing, packing too many people into a car or minibus to make more money/save time, cramming cars onto an intersection when the lights go red even if they aren't turning right (which then just means nobody else can move) and running red lights are ALL prime examples of discourteous behaviour towards other road users.

If Thailand didn't hand out driving licenses like candy and people had to actually pass a test... a proper test after lessons where you are taught to open your eyes, survey your surroundings and give a shit about what other people are doing, show courtesy to other road users and have common sense, then maybe accidents like the one in the article wouldn't have happened...

'fraid it is - you don't even seem to understand spatial awareness and are applying it incorrectly.........and what you describe has nothing to do with spatial awareness either

However this comes as no surprise.

Further testament to your lack or scientific thinking is your apparent belief that the plural of anecdote is data.......On a par with most of the nonsense posted on this thread.

Edited August 12, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[DJVillain]

...and as for those who think by using expressions like "no concept of awareness" or "spatial awareness" they are making a some valid point as if inserting some pseudo-scientific phrases gives it some kind of gravitas when it has no real meaning at all...come on! Why not learn something about what you are posting on before writing total nonsense?

(you can almost hear them running to google now!)

PS - "proceed cautiously at traffic lights - well what would you do in other countries?? Just blithely drive on without a care in the world? You need to review your driving skills...and pronto.

There was no pseudo science in what I posted pal... None at all...

Bottom line is that the swerving between lanes without checking surroundings, no use of the indicators to let other people know what they are doing, packing too many people into a car or minibus to make more money/save time, cramming cars onto an intersection when the lights go red even if they aren't turning right (which then just means nobody else can move) and running red lights are ALL prime examples of discourteous behaviour towards other road users.

If Thailand didn't hand out driving licenses like candy and people had to actually pass a test... a proper test after lessons where you are taught to open your eyes, survey your surroundings and give a shit about what other people are doing, show courtesy to other road users and have common sense, then maybe accidents like the one in the article wouldn't have happened...

"fgrad it is - you don't even understand spatial awareness and are applying it incorrectly.

However this comes as no surprise.

Further testament to your lack or scientific thinking is your apparent belief that the plural of anecdote is data.......On a par with most of the nonsense posted on this thread.

Where did I use the words anecdote or data?? I think you may have me confused with another poster...

Being spatially aware is the state of knowing your surroundings and where they are exactly....

So, what is the cause for the poor standard of driving in Thailand?

Is it a general lack of courtesy for other road users? or a lack of spacial awareness?

To be fair, its not even just the drivers, pedestrians do it too... Walking 10-abreast down a street at a snails pace blocking people from walking past...

[thaibeachlovers]

I think we're on the same page here and both realise it is a totally facile comment.

What this does is underline how shallow the thinking and poor the knowledge of road safety is on this and other threads - - - people have no idea about the causes and effects of these tragic events and simply stating how many people they have seen in a pickup is meaningless without any real implications and ignores the personal and human side as well.

Best thing any driver can do is study defensive driving and put it into practice. I studied the British police defensive driving book- excellent.

However, in LOS surviving any trip is often down to pure luck, given the maniacs on the roads.

My serious accident happened when I was virtually stationary and a rider drove into me because he was looking over his shoulder and not where he was going. It's hard to take evasive action when you don't know which way the idiot is going to go if he actually looks in front of himself.

If you try true defensive driving in the los you will spend your entire life driving at 20kph behind a huge lorry. The only way to be safe here is 'more offensive driving than the maniac trying to kill you' - ie all Thai drivers. To very bady paraphrase Sir W. Churchill - Drive quietly and drive a BIG pick-up.

It is clear from this post that the poster has no idea what "defensive driving" is. Read roadcraft to find out.

I will concede that it is in fact a rather poor expression that fails to fully get across the philosophy behind it.

Please desist from making offensive statements. You have no idea as to what I do or do not know.

Edited August 12, 2015 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

I fail to see how stating the "bleedin' obvious" contributes i anyway to the discussion.

LOL. IMO a lot of posters are on here because a/ we're addicted to the internet and muttering on TV is as good a way of being on it as any b/ because we have a lot of time to fill in and muttering on TV is as good a way to fill in time as any.

FGS does it really matter if someone makes an observation about how many people they've seen in a pickup? It's not like 99.9% of the threads are about life changing subjects.

I think we're on the same page here and both realise it is a totally facile comment.

What this does is underline how shallow the thinking and poor the knowledge of road safety is on this and other threads - - - people have no idea about the causes and effects of these tragic events and simply stating how many people they have seen in a pickup is meaningless without any real implications and ignores the personal and human side as well.

Best thing any driver can do is study defensive driving and put it into practice. I studied the British police defensive driving book- excellent.

However, in LOS surviving any trip is often down to pure luck, given the maniacs on the roads.

My serious accident happened when I was virtually stationary and a rider drove into me because he was looking over his shoulder and not where he was going. It's hard to take evasive action when you don't know which way the idiot is going to go if he actually looks in front of himself.

If you try true defensive driving in the los you will spend your entire life driving at 20kph behind a huge lorry. The only way to be safe here is 'more offensive driving than the maniac trying to kill you' - ie all Thai drivers. To very bady paraphrase Sir W. Churchill - Drive quietly and drive a BIG pick-up.

Drive quietly and drive a BIG pick-up.

If you are referring to 'walk softly and carry a big stick" it was Teddy Roosevelt, not Churchill, who said it.

[cumgranosalum]

...and as for those who think by using expressions like "no concept of awareness" or "spatial awareness" they are making a some valid point as if inserting some pseudo-scientific phrases gives it some kind of gravitas when it has no real meaning at all...come on! Why not learn something about what you are posting on before writing total nonsense?

(you can almost hear them running to google now!)

PS - "proceed cautiously at traffic lights - well what would you do in other countries?? Just blithely drive on without a care in the world? You need to review your driving skills...and pronto.

There was no pseudo science in what I posted pal... None at all...

Bottom line is that the swerving between lanes without checking surroundings, no use of the indicators to let other people know what they are doing, packing too many people into a car or minibus to make more money/save time, cramming cars onto an intersection when the lights go red even if they aren't turning right (which then just means nobody else can move) and running red lights are ALL prime examples of discourteous behaviour towards other road users.

If Thailand didn't hand out driving licenses like candy and people had to actually pass a test... a proper test after lessons where you are taught to open your eyes, survey your surroundings and give a shit about what other people are doing, show courtesy to other road users and have common sense, then maybe accidents like the one in the article wouldn't have happened...

"fgrad it is - you don't even understand spatial awareness and are applying it incorrectly.

However this comes as no surprise.

Further testament to your lack or scientific thinking is your apparent belief that the plural of anecdote is data.......On a par with most of the nonsense posted on this thread.

Where did I use the words anecdote or data?? I think you may have me confused with another poster...

Being spatially aware is the state of knowing your surroundings and where they are exactly....

So, what is the cause for the poor standard of driving in Thailand?

Is it a general lack of courtesy for other road users? or a lack of spacial awareness?

To be fair, its not even just the drivers, pedestrians do it too... Walking 10-abreast down a street at a snails pace blocking people from walking past...

Oh dear! Do i really have to explain that you are using anecdotes as if they were data?

you have an incredibly simplistic interpretation of driving in Thailand - do you seriously think that there is just one little - presumably racist - reason for the poor road safety record of the Kingdom...which you misidentify as a "poor standard of driving" as if that was the sole reason and so easily explicable by your misunderstanding of the phrase spatial awareness?

I'm sorry but at first your argument didn't even get off the ground and now it is disappearing under the asphalt.

i suppose if your were put in charge you'd just tell the people of Thailand they were all idiots and then everything would be OK?

Edited August 12, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

However, in LOS surviving any trip is often down to pure luck, given the maniacs on the roads.

My serious accident happened when I was virtually stationary and a rider drove into me because he was looking over his shoulder and not where he was going. It's hard to take evasive action when you don't know which way the idiot is going to go if he actually looks in front of himself.

If you try true defensive driving in the los you will spend your entire life driving at 20kph behind a huge lorry. The only way to be safe here is 'more offensive driving than the maniac trying to kill you' - ie all Thai drivers. To very bady paraphrase Sir W. Churchill - Drive quietly and drive a BIG pick-up.

It is clear from this post that the poster has no idea what "defensive driving" is. Read roadcraft to find out.

I will concede that it is in fact a rather poor expression that fails to fully get across the philosophy behind it.

Please desist from making offensive statements. You have no idea as to what I do or do not know.

"You have no idea as to what I do or do not know" - this is absolutely true -

I actually also have no interest either in who or what you are.....When I reply to a post I normally have no idea who anyone is and no interest whatsoever - even now I don't know your name (I will of course check in a bit now - but usually I don't WHY? Because my comments on your post or any other post on Thaivisa are based purely on the content of those posts.

[Ace of Pop]

Steady on Chaps.As for statistics, do you have Tinted Windows.?.Malaysian crashes fell 22pcent after they came down on them. So if you have them your not very carding either.

[ALFREDO]

I fail to see how stating the "bleedin' obvious" contributes i anyway to the discussion.

LOL. IMO a lot of posters are on here because a/ we're addicted to the internet and muttering on TV is as good a way of being on it as any b/ because we have a lot of time to fill in and muttering on TV is as good a way to fill in time as any.

FGS does it really matter if someone makes an observation about how many people they've seen in a pickup? It's not like 99.9% of the threads are about life changing subjects.

I think we're on the same page here and both realise it is a totally facile comment.

What this does is underline how shallow the thinking and poor the knowledge of road safety is on this and other threads - - - people have no idea about the causes and effects of these tragic events and simply stating how many people they have seen in a pickup is meaningless without any real implications and ignores the personal and human side as well.

Best thing any driver can do is study defensive driving and put it into practice. I studied the British police defensive driving book- excellent.

However, in LOS surviving any trip is often down to pure luck, given the maniacs on the roads.

My serious accident happened when I was virtually stationary and a rider drove into me because he was looking over his shoulder and not where he was going. It's hard to take evasive action when you don't know which way the idiot is going to go if he actually looks in front of himself.

If you try true defensive driving in the los you will spend your entire life driving at 20kph behind a huge lorry. The only way to be safe here is 'more offensive driving than the maniac trying to kill you' - ie all Thai drivers. To very bady paraphrase Sir W. Churchill - Drive quietly and drive a BIG pick-up.

-MKT- Your words -

"The only way to be safe here is 'more offensive driving than the maniac trying to kill you' - ie all Thai drivers."

My way, but, my -more offensive driving- has its borders,

as it seems there are really "crazy" drivers here on the road which have to be under the influence of something strong, alcohol, drugs or both.

Cannot mingle with these.