Briton dies on family road trip in Thailand, 11 injured

[ratcatcher]

Thai drivers go through red lights often. It's so bad, that sometimes when I'm approaching (or starting at) a green light, I have to honk, and proceed cautiously. 1,2,3,4 or more seconds after the light turns red, mai pen rai - if you're Thai you can justify speeding up to go through the intersection - rather than having to stop and wait for a minute or two.

So true...

Just no concept of spacial awareness or other peoples safety...

Both this attitude and a multitude of others are why this is my last year in Thailand... I am becoming jaded by the place...

Just as a matter of curiosity, how long have you had to endure this $hithole?

Why would anybody with an attitude toward Thailand like yours, stay here? Many of us love it here. Many of us have great lives here. Many of us have amazing Thai wives. Many of us feel really good about our lives when we wake up in the morning, and are glad we are here when we go to bed at night. Might I suggest some laxatives? Or a cleansing diet of some sort? Or just a good old fashioned attitude adjustment? But by God, do something. Spare us your inane diatribes. We don't need to hear it.

You don't do sarcasm or irony do you?

I was being facetious, replying to the previous poster's comments.

I've lived here a little while (15 years). I love the place. I have a Thai wife and all that entails.

I wake up every day and thank Buddha i don't live in the west. I like Thai food and the Thai people.

So, spare me the high horse lecture. I've been around the Kingdom & TVF long enough to know the advantages of living here. Obviously DJVillain, the poster to whom I replied, does not.

Cheers. rc

[Jonmarleesco]

11 people - in one pick up.

[balo]

Dangerous at any time of the day (or night)...

I would never drive long distances at night, especially in unfamilar areas.

Evern during daytime, we take wrong turns and get flustered and confused.

They drove all night and this happened before sunrise. Tired..and a bit disoriented. Also, many drinkers on the road at that time. Start your long distance driving at sunrise..not sunset.

Nighttime is the best time to drive , nice and cooler , no awful sun beating down on your windshield , shining in your eyes and the people in the back of the truck are not in the blistering heat. Far less trafic.

It makes sence to drive in the night and take the ferry in the morning to have the whole day for their holiday.

You list only the pro's for driving at night but you seem to have ignored the con's . You need both to ascertain a balanced opinion.

Night driving incurs reduced visibility, drunk drivers, potholed roads, fatigue, eye strain and the myriad of idiots that fly around with no regard for others Better to be a few hours late in Koh Chang than many years early in the afterlife.

Driving late at night reduces the chance of killing 5 kids on a m'bike when the driver enters the road at high speed without looking. That is my number one fear when driving on rural roads.

Also, if you run over a dog at night there is less chance of anyone seeing and claiming that the previously valueless mongrel has miraculously become worth 20,000.

I have just one comment for this and thats BS. You really think you're safe on the roads at night ? Do you live in Thailand ? Almost all the fatal accidents happens early in the morning. There is a reason for this you know. I rather prefer to drive slowly in heavy traffic during the day than speeding on "empty" Thai roads at night. Next time you read in the Thai news about a terrible, deadly accident, try to check which time it occured. Most probably late at night or early morning.

[Nice Boyd]

Dangerous at any time of the day (or night)...

I would never drive long distances at night, especially in unfamilar areas.

Evern during daytime, we take wrong turns and get flustered and confused.

They drove all night and this happened before sunrise. Tired..and a bit disoriented. Also, many drinkers on the road at that time. Start your long distance driving at sunrise..not sunset.

Nighttime is the best time to drive , nice and cooler , no awful sun beating down on your windshield , shining in your eyes and the people in the back of the truck are not in the blistering heat. Far less trafic.

It makes sence to drive in the night and take the ferry in the morning to have the whole day for their holiday.

You list only the pro's for driving at night but you seem to have ignored the con's . You need both to ascertain a balanced opinion.

Night driving incurs reduced visibility, drunk drivers, potholed roads, fatigue, eye strain and the myriad of idiots that fly around with no regard for others Better to be a few hours late in Koh Chang than many years early in the afterlife.

Driving late at night reduces the chance of killing 5 kids on a m'bike when the driver enters the road at high speed without looking. That is my number one fear when driving on rural roads.

Also, if you run over a dog at night there is less chance of anyone seeing and claiming that the previously valueless mongrel has miraculously become worth 20,000.

I have just one comment for this and thats BS. You really think you're safe on the roads at night ? Do you live in Thailand ? Almost all the fatal accidents happens early in the morning. There is a reason for this you know. I rather prefer to drive slowly in heavy traffic during the day than speeding on "empty" Thai roads at night. Next time you read in the Thai news about a terrible, deadly accident, try to check which time it occured. Most probably late at night or early morning.

Hopefully your Comment will put this Driving at Night thing to Rest, Thank You

[ratcatcher]

11 people - in one pick up.

Please tell us you are new here.

[thaibeachlovers]

Nighttime is the best time to drive , nice and cooler , no awful sun beating down on your windshield , shining in your eyes and the people in the back of the truck are not in the blistering heat. Far less trafic.

It makes sence to drive in the night and take the ferry in the morning to have the whole day for their holiday.

You list only the pro's for driving at night but you seem to have ignored the con's . You need both to ascertain a balanced opinion.

Night driving incurs reduced visibility, drunk drivers, potholed roads, fatigue, eye strain and the myriad of idiots that fly around with no regard for others Better to be a few hours late in Koh Chang than many years early in the afterlife.

Driving late at night reduces the chance of killing 5 kids on a m'bike when the driver enters the road at high speed without looking. That is my number one fear when driving on rural roads.

Also, if you run over a dog at night there is less chance of anyone seeing and claiming that the previously valueless mongrel has miraculously become worth 20,000.

I have just one comment for this and thats BS. You really think you're safe on the roads at night ? Do you live in Thailand ? Almost all the fatal accidents happens early in the morning. There is a reason for this you know. I rather prefer to drive slowly in heavy traffic during the day than speeding on "empty" Thai roads at night. Next time you read in the Thai news about a terrible, deadly accident, try to check which time it occured. Most probably late at night or early morning.

Feeling grumpy are we?

I never said I feel safe and in another post I said Thai roads are dangerous 24 hours a day. What I ACTUALLY said, if you'd bothered to read it is that there less chance of killing 5 kids on a m'bike when the driver enters the road at high speed without looking. That is because they have gone to bed.

I try to get to destination before dawn ( and since when is dawn part of "late at night"? ), as that is the really dangerous time on the roads, with people going to work and the sun in your eyes.

Where do I say I drive fast?

[thaibeachlovers]

11 people - in one pick up.

That's not a lot for LOS.

[cumgranosalum]

Stats are not facts or evidence - it is what we do with them and how we interpret the that is important.

Common sense tells us that driving at night is more dangerous than in daylight. The truth is that as humans we are not genetically equipped with eyes for seeing at night. (nor for speed, as it happens) - but the reality of road deaths suggested by stats is that the "high point" for road deaths is between 4pm and 8 pm - this includes dusk when the light is trickiest.

Why not later? Well I would suggest that on many roads the traffic over night is simply less and the opportunities for a collision are reduced.

there may be figures that suggest that the percentage of road users at risk at that time is higher - even though the actual numbers are lower.

in all it appears that over 60% of road deaths happen in the dark - (definition of "dark" unknown).

[LannaGuy]

RIP. But one of the trucks was in the wrong oncoming lane. Which truck?

RIP. Very sad, as his wife and children will be without a husband and father, respectively.

It will be difficult to determine fault for this accident, although the presumption is that Mrs. Flood is at fault, because she was turning right, and the other truck was proceeding straight ahead. The photos in the source linked article show that this is a broadside collision, not head-on, so no one was in the wrong lane. Mr. Wattana was probably speeding and Mrs. Flood probably violated his right of way, by turning right, when it wasn't safe to do so.

Mr Wattana probably flashed his lights as well which can be mistaken for I will let you go not, look out get out of my way!

this is the only rule, no chance for mistakes, flashing lights:

Farangland: you go OR thank you

Thailand: get out of my <deleted> way

you misunderstand that = accident or worse

[cumgranosalum]

RIP. But one of the trucks was in the wrong oncoming lane. Which truck?

RIP. Very sad, as his wife and children will be without a husband and father, respectively.

It will be difficult to determine fault for this accident, although the presumption is that Mrs. Flood is at fault, because she was turning right, and the other truck was proceeding straight ahead. The photos in the source linked article show that this is a broadside collision, not head-on, so no one was in the wrong lane. Mr. Wattana was probably speeding and Mrs. Flood probably violated his right of way, by turning right, when it wasn't safe to do so.

I have to say to this post"so what?"

Trying to apportion blame on the basis of a few newspaper photos and seemingly deciding that one single factor (who was on which side of the road) is just ridiculous.

Firstly blame is NEVER 100%

Secondly unless you know what happened before during and after an accident you are not even coming close to what happened.....just making simplistic assumptions.

road safety is in a mess in Thailand and one of the neglected aspects is EVALUATION - a proper analysis of what happened won't bring anyone back, but it just MIGHT save some lives in the future. just trying to apportion blame will get us nowhere

[cumgranosalum]

RIP. But one of the trucks was in the wrong oncoming lane. Which truck?

RIP. Very sad, as his wife and children will be without a husband and father, respectively.

It will be difficult to determine fault for this accident, although the presumption is that Mrs. Flood is at fault, because she was turning right, and the other truck was proceeding straight ahead. The photos in the source linked article show that this is a broadside collision, not head-on, so no one was in the wrong lane. Mr. Wattana was probably speeding and Mrs. Flood probably violated his right of way, by turning right, when it wasn't safe to do so.

Mr Wattana probably flashed his lights as well which can be mistaken for I will let you go not, look out get out of my way!

this is the only rule, no chance for mistakes, flashing lights:

Farangland: you go OR thank you

Thailand: get out of my <deleted> way

you misunderstand that = accident or worse

...an analysis of driving in thailand that is probably responsible for a large portion of the deaths....don't make prejudiced soundbites - learn to drive!

[Oil Baron]

11 people - in one pick up.

I've seen 12 in a "Sa-Leng", motorbike with sidecar before...

[cumgranosalum]

11 people - in one pick up.

I've seen 12 in a "Sa-Leng", motorbike with sidecar before...

....so what?

[Ace of Pop]

Tinted Windows should be banned these day.

[cumgranosalum]

Tinted Windows should be banned these day.

I agree that tints are potentially dangerous, particularly on poor or half light, but as I've said before trying to pin one's hope of improving road safety in Thailand one single issues is a waste of time. What is needed is a total (holistic) approach or nothing will be achieved

Edited August 10, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[flyingdoc]

Not only can tinted windows cause a problem at night, but more so the soft light policy in Thailand. Only 1% of cars have bright lighting one would expect in Europe, and often it is difficult to even ascertain whether headlights are switched on or not ! Then there are all the others as mentioned with inadequate lights or none at all, driving or riding on the wrong side of the road just to take a short cut to their turn-off, animals on the road and a myriad of other hazards!

[MiKT]

 

RIP. But one of the trucks was in the wrong oncoming lane. Which truck?

 

very sad, but you don't need to ask that question. One could postulate that if one of those drivers holds a British license they have been taught and trained to operate the vehicle safely.

the driver of the other truck would have been let loose on a go kart track and ( serious I've been there in lat prao at the driving license centre) told not to cross over the lines or hit the tyres too much. as long as the break pedal can be hit and you are not colour blind you will get the thai license.

the thai driver is able to move a vehicle full stop, , all other drivers should be warned that a thai is driving the vehicle

Just yesterday I watched in horror and disbelief as a pickup truck overtook me on the crest of a notoriously dangerous hill because I had the sense and road discipline to wait behind a builders lorry until such time as it was clear and SAFE to overtake.

The fact that he got away with it was entirely down to luck & any amulets he might have had dangling in the windscreen. I caught the event on dashcam but as it's a daily occurrence I haven't bothered to upload.

They frankly scare the crap out of me!

Is there such a thing as a dash cam that turns on automatically should a vehicle run into your car when it is parked up? A couple of days ago my wife parked outside a shop only to come out and later find someone had scraped right down the side, goes without saying they did the decent thing and cleared off. I have cams all over the place but what use are they when the engine is not running? Incidentally a couple of phone calls to service managers in car dealerships told her not to tell the insurance company that someone ran into her car and run away but instead to say she hit the gate post exiting the house or else the insurance will not pay! 1st class insurance I might add.

oh dear, oh dear, where are you guys from, outer bahn nock? Less traffic in the day? I don't want to brag, simply make a point. I have driven many, many hundreds of thousands of k in Thailand and I know this is rubbish. A small quiz. Drive from Bang Kapi to Rama 9 (a distance of 10k) at 5AM - how long will it take? A = 20mins. Same trip at 7AM - minimum of 1.5 hrs, 2 hrs on a bad day. Q2 drive from Pattaya to Bang Kapi (134k) at 4PM on a Sunday afternoon - 3 to 4 hrs. Same trip at 11PM = 1hr 20 mins. Q3 drive from KT to Buri Ram (400k) starting 9AM any weekday. How long 8+hrs. Same trip starting 2AM = 5hrs. etc., etc. Dive in Nan at 2AM and you might see one other car. Nb there are still (unfortunately only) 2000 wild elephants in Thailand and they arn't all in Ko Yai or in Kanchanaburi. Take care in other parks that you (stupidly) are still allowed to drive through. NNB why do you think all the lorries driving to KT pull of the road at @10PM? Maybe to visit the meia noi? Bah, humbug.

Sorry, This post was not for you. I can drive a pick-up but not my telephone!

Edited August 10, 2015 by MiKT

[apetley]

11 people - in one pick up.

That's not a lot for LOS.

Correct. Most I ever counted was 39 in a 2 door Isuzu!

[cumgranosalum]

11 people - in one pick up.

That's not a lot for LOS.

Correct. Most I ever counted was 39 in a 2 door Isuzu!

so what is the point you are trying to make?

[apetley]

11 people - in one pick up.

That's not a lot for LOS.

Correct. Most I ever counted was 39 in a 2 door Isuzu!

so what is the point you are trying to make?

Replying to a post about how many people in the back of a Thai pickup was that not obvious?

[cumgranosalum]

Correct. Most I ever counted was 39 in a 2 door Isuzu!

so what is the point you are trying to make?

Replying to a post about how many people in the back of a Thai pickup was that not obvious?

No - you are saying you have seen a lot of people in a pickup...now how would you like to make a point of that? What is you conclusion how does it relate to the death oin the Op or on te other points made about road safety - or are you like some school kid showing a visitor their new teddy?

[edwinchester]

Guessing the point is overloaded pickups are common in Thailand.

I'd add overloaded pickups are more dangerous than those not overloaded.

[huawei]

Thai drivers go through red lights often. It's so bad, that sometimes when I'm approaching (or starting at) a green light, I have to honk, and proceed cautiously. 1,2,3,4 or more seconds after the light turns red, mai pen rai - if you're Thai you can justify speeding up to go through the intersection - rather than having to stop and wait for a minute or two.

So true...

Just no concept of spacial awareness or other peoples safety...

Both this attitude and a multitude of others are why this is my last year in Thailand... I am becoming jaded by the place...

Just as a matter of curiosity, how long have you had to endure this $hithole?

Why would anybody with an attitude toward Thailand like yours, stay here? Many of us love it here. Many of us have great lives here. Many of us have amazing Thai wives. Many of us feel really good about our lives when we wake up in the morning, and are glad we are here when we go to bed at night. Might I suggest some laxatives? Or a cleansing diet of some sort? Or just a good old fashioned attitude adjustment? But by God, do something. Spare us your inane diatribes. We don't need to hear it.

You don't do sarcasm or irony do you?

I was being facetious, replying to the previous poster's comments.

I've lived here a little while (15 years). I love the place. I have a Thai wife and all that entails.

I wake up every day and thank Buddha i don't live in the west. I like Thai food and the Thai people.

So, spare me the high horse lecture. I've been around the Kingdom & TVF long enough to know the advantages of living here. Obviously DJVillain, the poster to whom I replied, does not.

Cheers. rc

It was bloody obvious what you were saying.

I am very suspect of these individuals that come on here and say and respond like that..Thailand has warts..driving is one of them...

[MartinBangkok]

Thai drivers go through red lights often. It's so bad, that sometimes when I'm approaching (or starting at) a green light, I have to honk, and proceed cautiously. 1,2,3,4 or more seconds after the light turns red, mai pen rai - if you're Thai you can justify speeding up to go through the intersection - rather than having to stop and wait for a minute or two.

So true...

Just no concept of spacial awareness or other peoples safety...

Both this attitude and a multitude of others are why this is my last year in Thailand... I am becoming jaded by the place...

Me too... Not sure where to go next...

I am also considering. The big question, where to go in Sout East Asia (which is where I want to be)?

[cumgranosalum]

I fail to see how stating the "bleedin' obvious" contributes i anyway to the discussion.

Anyone who has spent time in Thailand could write a litany of apparently dangerous aberrant behaviour exhibited on the roads of Thailand, but it seems that most people on this thread have no idea why these incidents occur or even any interest in learning about road safety.

To them it is just an opportunity to say something rude about the people of Thailand or make infantile, prejudiced judgements about their ability to drive; statements which, for the most part, are based on the false assumption that they the posters are vastly superior in their own motoring skills.

nothing could be further from the truth.

[cumgranosalum]

...and as for those who think by using expressions like "no concept of awareness" or "spatial awareness" they are making a some valid point as if inserting some pseudo-scientific phrases gives it some kind of gravitas when it has no real meaning at all...come on! Why not learn something about what you are posting on before writing total nonsense?

(you can almost hear them running to google now!)

PS - "proceed cautiously at traffic lights - well what would you do in other countries?? Just blithely drive on without a care in the world? You need to review your driving skills...and pronto.

[thaibeachlovers]

I fail to see how stating the "bleedin' obvious" contributes i anyway to the discussion.

Anyone who has spent time in Thailand could write a litany of apparently dangerous aberrant behaviour exhibited on the roads of Thailand, but it seems that most people on this thread have no idea why these incidents occur or even any interest in learning about road safety.

To them it is just an opportunity to say something rude about the people of Thailand or make infantile, prejudiced judgements about their ability to drive; statements which, for the most part, are based on the false assumption that they the posters are vastly superior in their own motoring skills.

nothing could be further from the truth.

I fail to see how stating the "bleedin' obvious" contributes i anyway to the discussion.

LOL. IMO a lot of posters are on here because a/ we're addicted to the internet and muttering on TV is as good a way of being on it as any b/ because we have a lot of time to fill in and muttering on TV is as good a way to fill in time as any.

FGS does it really matter if someone makes an observation about how many people they've seen in a pickup? It's not like 99.9% of the threads are about life changing subjects.

[cumgranosalum]

I fail to see how stating the "bleedin' obvious" contributes i anyway to the discussion.

Anyone who has spent time in Thailand could write a litany of apparently dangerous aberrant behaviour exhibited on the roads of Thailand, but it seems that most people on this thread have no idea why these incidents occur or even any interest in learning about road safety.

To them it is just an opportunity to say something rude about the people of Thailand or make infantile, prejudiced judgements about their ability to drive; statements which, for the most part, are based on the false assumption that they the posters are vastly superior in their own motoring skills.

nothing could be further from the truth.

I fail to see how stating the "bleedin' obvious" contributes i anyway to the discussion.

LOL. IMO a lot of posters are on here because a/ we're addicted to the internet and muttering on TV is as good a way of being on it as any b/ because we have a lot of time to fill in and muttering on TV is as good a way to fill in time as any.

FGS does it really matter if someone makes an observation about how many people they've seen in a pickup? It's not like 99.9% of the threads are about life changing subjects.

I think we're on the same page here and both realise it is a totally facile comment.

What this does is underline how shallow the thinking and poor the knowledge of road safety is on this and other threads - - - people have no idea about the causes and effects of these tragic events and simply stating how many people they have seen in a pickup is meaningless without any real implications and ignores the personal and human side as well.

[thaibeachlovers]

I fail to see how stating the "bleedin' obvious" contributes i anyway to the discussion.

Anyone who has spent time in Thailand could write a litany of apparently dangerous aberrant behaviour exhibited on the roads of Thailand, but it seems that most people on this thread have no idea why these incidents occur or even any interest in learning about road safety.

To them it is just an opportunity to say something rude about the people of Thailand or make infantile, prejudiced judgements about their ability to drive; statements which, for the most part, are based on the false assumption that they the posters are vastly superior in their own motoring skills.

nothing could be further from the truth.

I fail to see how stating the "bleedin' obvious" contributes i anyway to the discussion.

LOL. IMO a lot of posters are on here because a/ we're addicted to the internet and muttering on TV is as good a way of being on it as any b/ because we have a lot of time to fill in and muttering on TV is as good a way to fill in time as any.

FGS does it really matter if someone makes an observation about how many people they've seen in a pickup? It's not like 99.9% of the threads are about life changing subjects.

I think we're on the same page here and both realise it is a totally facile comment.

What this does is underline how shallow the thinking and poor the knowledge of road safety is on this and other threads - - - people have no idea about the causes and effects of these tragic events and simply stating how many people they have seen in a pickup is meaningless without any real implications and ignores the personal and human side as well.

Best thing any driver can do is study defensive driving and put it into practice. I studied the British police defensive driving book- excellent.

However, in LOS surviving any trip is often down to pure luck, given the maniacs on the roads.

My serious accident happened when I was virtually stationary and a rider drove into me because he was looking over his shoulder and not where he was going. It's hard to take evasive action when you don't know which way the idiot is going to go if he actually looks in front of himself.

[cumgranosalum]

I fail to see how stating the "bleedin' obvious" contributes i anyway to the discussion.

Anyone who has spent time in Thailand could write a litany of apparently dangerous aberrant behaviour exhibited on the roads of Thailand, but it seems that most people on this thread have no idea why these incidents occur or even any interest in learning about road safety.

To them it is just an opportunity to say something rude about the people of Thailand or make infantile, prejudiced judgements about their ability to drive; statements which, for the most part, are based on the false assumption that they the posters are vastly superior in their own motoring skills.

nothing could be further from the truth.

I fail to see how stating the "bleedin' obvious" contributes i anyway to the discussion.

LOL. IMO a lot of posters are on here because a/ we're addicted to the internet and muttering on TV is as good a way of being on it as any b/ because we have a lot of time to fill in and muttering on TV is as good a way to fill in time as any.

FGS does it really matter if someone makes an observation about how many people they've seen in a pickup? It's not like 99.9% of the threads are about life changing subjects.

I think we're on the same page here and both realise it is a totally facile comment.

What this does is underline how shallow the thinking and poor the knowledge of road safety is on this and other threads - - - people have no idea about the causes and effects of these tragic events and simply stating how many people they have seen in a pickup is meaningless without any real implications and ignores the personal and human side as well.

Best thing any driver can do is study defensive driving and put it into practice. I studied the British police defensive driving book- excellent.

However, in LOS surviving any trip is often down to pure luck, given the maniacs on the roads.

My serious accident happened when I was virtually stationary and a rider drove into me because he was looking over his shoulder and not where he was going. It's hard to take evasive action when you don't know which way the idiot is going to go if he actually looks in front of himself.

If you actually HAD read the book "Roadcraft" then you would realise that your second line actually contradicts your first line.

After that you need to bear in mind that the plural of anecdote is not data.