Retirement: Thailand vs Spain

[loppylugs1]

loppylugs,

Interested you mention a 'bank haircut'. We all know what happened in Cyprus. I would only maintain a small balance in these countries. You can always open a euro account with your UK bank if the exchange rate becomes too favorable. Just don't use your bank to buy euros.

The socialists are likely to win the coming election in Portugal, and Podemos, the Spanish version of Syriza, will have a big say in the outcome of the December election in Spain, so I think it's wise to prepare a worst case scenario for your savings. These countries are broke. It wouldn't surprise me if Spain introduced a 'solidarity tax', following their cousins in Portugal and Greece.

But, at the end of the day, we all have to continue with our lives. Who knows what will happen here, but here's a thought. What would happen if the retirement visa required a minimum balance of 2,000,000 baht when you apply for/renew your visa? Now that would be a 'black swan' moment for many ex-pats.

I feel at times I'm writing to Jesus Christ,...thanks be to heaven

I do need to hide those shares I have though if a move is on to either country,cannot help feeling with all their woes that may become an issue. Impossible when dividends are paid into main bank account to hide ,but might switch the payments to minor account I have, and not declare ail accounts (if possible) or would they eventually find out?

[loppylugs1]

Just weighing up the tax implication of both Spain and Portugal,Spain the gross tax bill for year 1, Portugal,that solidarity tax ,and I do not fancy a bank haircut later in the year if the forthcoming elections demand one,so Ill hold fire on a move there until the new year

No one with bank accounts containing less than the official EU guaranteed amount of 100,000EUR per banking licence lost a bean in the Cyprus collapse. The only people who lost money were those who deposited more than 100KEUR per bank, and most of them were Russians involved in tax fraud or other criminals. My heart bleeds for them. The "haircut" was really just a tax on stupidity and the proceeds of crime.

Besides which, just because you live in Portugal does not mean that you have to keep all (or any) of your money there. I live in Thailand but 90% of my wealth is not here.

...if I become resident ,which I will have to (over 183 days) it means everything I have becomes under their scrutiny (and potential taxation)

[KittenKong]

Who knows what will happen here, but here's a thought. What would happen if the retirement visa required a minimum balance of 2,000,000 baht when you apply for/renew your visa? Now that would be a 'black swan' moment for many ex-pats.

I know many people who dont even have the current requirement of 800KB. They pay agencies to sort it out for them. It costs around 12,000B and the agency takes care of all the paperwork.

I imagine that if the retirement deposit went up to 2MB these agencies would just gain some customers.

[medina21]

Loppy,

I've no idea where your accounts are.

If they are in the EU, your bank will automatically provide details of your year-end balance to the tax authority of the country where you are a fiscal resident.

Banks in Jersey and the IOM do this as well.

'Hiding' money is getting much harder. The best we can do is to keep it in jurisdictions where there is deposit insurance, and where there is unlikely to be a 'temporary/solidarity tax'.

As someone else said, you don't have to live in the country where you are a fiscal resident. For all the inconveniences of LOS, tax as an ex-pat is not too bothersome

[KittenKong]

...if I become resident ,which I will have to (over 183 days) it means everything I have becomes under their scrutiny (and potential taxation)

Taxation, yes. Haircuts? No.

And my point about not keeping your money in Portugal was related to the safety of the banks there, not the tax. Just choose countries and banks that are (relatively) sound.

[medina21]

Also, Portuguese banks are far from 'sound'!!

[TIMMMMM]

http://www.valuepenguin.com/2015/07/safest-countries-world

Very interesting and looks quite real safety survey by country. One question is on Spain being 5th safest. Is it due to crime non-reporting or it is for real?

[loppylugs1]

http://www.valuepenguin.com/2015/07/safest-countries-world

Very interesting and looks quite real safety survey by country. One question is on Spain being 5th safest. Is it due to crime non-reporting or it is for real?

Do not see Portugal in the list ,...supposed its all lumped into Iberian Peninsular

[loppylugs1]

Please God,take me out of all this,Ive 'ad e'nuff

Got total of 3 mutts,thought I could get rid of one but no,saved all 3 from certain death,so have basic feeling for them,to abandon them now would seal their fate. Without them plain sailing,flog off the car ,bits and pieces (that's the beauty of fully furnished house).

Why Spain is favourable as a first instance,so many casas up for renting,one month down too. Signed 3 year lease here 2 month lease deposit ,... attractive enough and well sought after ,I'm sure the owner who I have never met will not mind a switch in renters as long as his money is paid on time

This is a dream coming true,...the 'plane ride back to BKK next month from the Algarve,hope its not going to be a tearful departing. Friend of mine emigrated there couple of months ago after 9 years here,not heard from him,but know he made right choice

[craigt3365]

http://www.valuepenguin.com/2015/07/safest-countries-world

Very interesting and looks quite real safety survey by country. One question is on Spain being 5th safest. Is it due to crime non-reporting or it is for real?

Costa Rica at #10? Impossible. Serbia and Albania ahead of Sweden and Norway???

[TIMMMMM]

Spain 5th (?)

Portugal 39th (believable)

Thailand 73rd (true 100%)

[loppylugs1]

Spain 5th (?)

Portugal 39th (believable)

Thailand 73rd (true 100%)

Stopped looking after 15, how the hell they make it to there?

[KittenKong]

Spain is a big place. It comprises Barcelona (which is probably the world capital of street theft) and vast areas where the residents probably dont even need to have locks on their front doors, let alone use them.

That said, that table is clearly unsound. Zero assaults per 100,000k of population in the Philippines? Seems unlikely.

[daveAustin]

Million Brits in Thailand? Lol. Maybe if you included all the tourists throughout the year...

[Linzz]

The hunt for taxes is on, from all governments of all countries exercising their legal right to theft...the choice is yours

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/35876

One of the greatest advantages of gold throughout history was the fact that it was independent of government and movable. Today, the hunt for taxes by government has been expanded to all forms of wealth. Above is the entry form for India. Not only is gold specifically listed, it is listed in jewelry form, and cash is defined as $5,000. There is also the note about satellite phones. No matter what country you go to, the hunt for money in any form is in full swing. It is hard to imagine the world we are entering into. Wil we become like the Romans, just burying pots of gold and silver, unable to move it anywhere? In Italy, if your jewelry appears excessive, they pull you off to weigh it.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Linzz

[Linzz]

"The world economy is contracting, if not imploding, because politicians are hunting money for taxes and confiscating assets because governments are going broke." http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/35890

[JB300]

http://www.valuepenguin.com/2015/07/safest-countries-world

Very interesting and looks quite real safety survey by country. One question is on Spain being 5th safest. Is it due to crime non-reporting or it is for real?

Do not see Portugal in the list ,...supposed its all lumped into Iberian Peninsular

I couldn't see the UK on the list, though am in Australia at the moment so it might be redacted after the ashes

[TIMMMMM]

That's why "ASSET PROTECTION" is a hot topic today. There isn't much time left to have your one's contingency plan in play. Starting 2016 most OECD countries start exchanging ALL banking transactions (including name, passport info, amount, to, from, etc) to each other country Tax Office. As usual, it's legit people like John & Peter who will pay the price. Drug & arms dealers couldn't care less about these exchanges.

Edited August 13, 2015 by TIMMMMM

[loppylugs1]

Personally I do not care if Portugal is the <deleted> of the rottenness nation on earth I just want out of Thailand.

At times I wonder "am I as stupid as that" or" is this the dumbest thing on the planet" " No hab" after waiting an hour and being told yesterday they "hab" Those bloody bikes with the bolt on carts trundling back and forth at a steady 10mph Christ they are all over the place

Learned a bit of Thai language,but realised the only Thais you would want to possibly relate to speaking Thai were the ones if you were stuck in a jungle wanting to know the way out

[JB300]

Personally I do not care if Portugal is the <deleted> of the rottenness nation on earth I just want out of Thailand.

At times I wonder "am I as stupid as that" or" is this the dumbest thing on the planet" " No hab" after waiting an hour and being told yesterday they "hab" Those bloody bikes with the bolt on carts trundling back and forth at a steady 10mph Christ they are all over the place

Learned a bit of Thai language,but realised the only Thais you would want to possibly relate to speaking Thai were the ones if you were stuck in a jungle wanting to know the way out

Sounds like it might be time for a change (out of curiosity, how long have you lived in Thailand?)

Have you considered South America (Panama, Ecuador etc...), I've never been but from what I've read it seems a retirement paradise...

[loppylugs1]

Personally I do not care if Portugal is the <deleted> of the rottenness nation on earth I just want out of Thailand.

At times I wonder "am I as stupid as that" or" is this the dumbest thing on the planet" " No hab" after waiting an hour and being told yesterday they "hab" Those bloody bikes with the bolt on carts trundling back and forth at a steady 10mph Christ they are all over the place

Learned a bit of Thai language,but realised the only Thais you would want to possibly relate to speaking Thai were the ones if you were stuck in a jungle wanting to know the way out

Sounds like it might be time for a change (out of curiosity, how long have you lived in Thailand?)

Have you considered South America (Panama, Ecuador etc...), I've never been but from what I've read it seems a retirement paradise...

Seven years No too far

[craigt3365]

Personally I do not care if Portugal is the <deleted> of the rottenness nation on earth I just want out of Thailand.

At times I wonder "am I as stupid as that" or" is this the dumbest thing on the planet" " No hab" after waiting an hour and being told yesterday they "hab" Those bloody bikes with the bolt on carts trundling back and forth at a steady 10mph Christ they are all over the place

Learned a bit of Thai language,but realised the only Thais you would want to possibly relate to speaking Thai were the ones if you were stuck in a jungle wanting to know the way out

Sounds like it might be time for a change (out of curiosity, how long have you lived in Thailand?)

Have you considered South America (Panama, Ecuador etc...), I've never been but from what I've read it seems a retirement paradise...

Massive crime problems in both countries, as well as most of CA/SA. Seems to be popular with snow birds from NA.

Here's a pic of my guide in Panama. He carried this for protection. Spent a month in both countries. Quite nice, but IMHO, Thailand is better. Warts and all.

[TIMMMMM]

7 years is WAY too much for Thailand. My observation is that 3 years is a norm for many people. I am talking about those with no Thai wife, etc. There are better places to enjoy life.

There are lots of good things to say about Thailand, however, many people miss one key point - Thailand is and always will be for Thai people. If one feels unhappy here this is the first reason why.

Edited August 13, 2015 by TIMMMMM

[huawei]

7 years is WAY too much for Thailand. My observation is that 3 years is a norm for many people. I am talking about those with no Thai wife, etc. There are better places to enjoy life.

There are lots of good things to say about Thailand, however, many people miss one key point - Thailand is and always will be for Thai people. If one feels unhappy here this is the first reason why.

Well it's is their country..

[Luang]

Economic issues aside, I'm surprised more people don't consider the Greek Islands. Even Athens for that matter. Cheap, beautiful, decent food etc. and European!

Oh, and NOBODY pays any horrible taxes!

Edited August 13, 2015 by Luang

[loppylugs1]

Economic issues aside, I'm surprised more people don't consider the Greek Islands. Even Athens for that matter. Cheap, beautiful, decent food etc. and European!

Oh, and NOBODY pays any horrible taxes!

Sod Greece,always considered it as belonging in Africa,and you ever experienced cold and I mean cold,? try those Greek islands starting the 1st of October

[Anthony5]

Personally I do not care if Portugal is the <deleted> of the rottenness nation on earth I just want out of Thailand.

At times I wonder "am I as stupid as that" or" is this the dumbest thing on the planet" " No hab" after waiting an hour and being told yesterday they "hab" Those bloody bikes with the bolt on carts trundling back and forth at a steady 10mph Christ they are all over the place

Learned a bit of Thai language,but realised the only Thais you would want to possibly relate to speaking Thai were the ones if you were stuck in a jungle wanting to know the way out

Sounds like it might be time for a change (out of curiosity, how long have you lived in Thailand?)

Have you considered South America (Panama, Ecuador etc...), I've never been but from what I've read it seems a retirement paradise...

Massive crime problems in both countries, as well as most of CA/SA. Seems to be popular with snow birds from NA.

Here's a pic of my guide in Panama. He carried this for protection. Spent a month in both countries. Quite nice, but IMHO, Thailand is better. Warts and all.

Been to Costa Rica once, which is considered the safest country in the region, and I couldn't leave fast enough. In fact I cut my holiday short.

When the owner of the guesthouse in the middle of the capital tells you, take your key with you because after 10pm you can ring the bell as much as you want, we don't open the door under any circumstance then I know enough.

When we a few days later, on a return from a beach resort at the other side of the country, at 6pm walked with our suitcases from the bus station to a hotel 500 meter down the road and in the middle of the capital, and on arrival they declared us crazy for doing that, I understood that was not the place to be.

Also with armed guards outside Mc Donalds and H&M in the middle of the day it is clear that something is seriously wrong in those countries.

[HeijoshinCool]

Personally I do not care if Portugal is the <deleted> of the rottenness nation on earth I just want out of Thailand.

At times I wonder "am I as stupid as that" or" is this the dumbest thing on the planet" " No hab" after waiting an hour and being told yesterday they "hab" Those bloody bikes with the bolt on carts trundling back and forth at a steady 10mph Christ they are all over the place

Learned a bit of Thai language,but realised the only Thais you would want to possibly relate to speaking Thai were the ones if you were stuck in a jungle wanting to know the way out

Sounds like it might be time for a change (out of curiosity, how long have you lived in Thailand?)

Have you considered South America (Panama, Ecuador etc...), I've never been but from what I've read it seems a retirement paradise...

Massive crime problems in both countries, as well as most of CA/SA. Seems to be popular with snow birds from NA.

Here's a pic of my guide in Panama. He carried this for protection. Spent a month in both countries. Quite nice, but IMHO, Thailand is better. Warts and all.

.

This photo would make a great new topic: "Name the Caption."

.

[medina21]

Greece is beautiful. You can rent cheaply which avoids losses on a property purchase if/when they go back to the drachma. But I'd be a little worried about their healthcare due to all the financial problems. However, it ticks the culture, scenery, and food boxes. The winter is cold but spring and summer are awesome.

[Luang]

Economic issues aside, I'm surprised more people don't consider the Greek Islands. Even Athens for that matter. Cheap, beautiful, decent food etc. and European!

Oh, and NOBODY pays any horrible taxes!

Sod Greece,always considered it as belonging in Africa,and you ever experienced cold and I mean cold,? try those Greek islands starting the 1st of October

Don't be silly, nothing remotely African about Greece. The cold, yes. Invigorating