US girls to stay in adult court in classmate stabbing case

[webfact]

Girls to stay in adult court in classmate stabbing case
By TODD RICHMOND

WAUKESHA, Wis. (AP) — A Wisconsin judge ruled Monday that two 13-year-old girls accused of stabbing a classmate to please the online horror character Slender Man will stay in adult court, where they could face a sentence of decades in prison.

Waukesha County Circuit Judge Michael Bohren said he was worried that the girls would stop receiving mental health treatment and be released into the community with no supervision when they exited the juvenile system at age 18. Keeping them in the adult system would protect people longer, the judge said.

"The real issue is what happens in a few years," Bohren said. "They've committed an offense that was ... frankly vicious."

The two girls, both wearing dresses and in shackles, said nothing during the 45-minute proceeding. One of them bounced in her chair until a bailiff whispered to her. She spent the rest of the hearing hunched over and glancing at the ceiling. The girls' attorneys also said nothing to the judge.

One of their attorneys, Maura McMahon, told reporters outside the courtroom that she was "of course" disappointed and her client didn't understand what had happened. She said she planned to discuss an appeal with the girl and the attorney then left. The other defense attorneys and prosecutors departed without speaking to reporters.

The girls are both from Waukesha, a conservative Milwaukee suburb. They each face a charge of attempted first-degree intentional homicide in connection with the May 2014 attack on their classmate, Payton Leutner. According to a criminal complaint, the girls plotted for months before they lured Payton into some woods after a sleepover and attacked her with a knife. Payton was stabbed 19 times but survived.

The girls told investigators they hoped killing Payton would please Slender Man, a character they had read about in online horror stories. The tales describe Slender Man as an unnaturally thin, faceless creature who preys on children.

Police captured the girls on the outskirts of the city that same day. They told investigators they planned to walk 300 miles to the Nicolet National Forest, where they hoped to live as Slender Man's servants in his mansion.

All three girls were 12 years old at the time. Anyone 10 or older charged with first-degree attempted homicide is automatically considered an adult under Wisconsin law.

The girls could face up to 65 years in the state prison system if they're convicted as adults. The juvenile system, in contrast, is geared more toward rehabilitation than punishment. The girls could be held as juveniles for only five years.

Their attorneys had argued they belong in juvenile court because their brains aren't fully developed, they suffer from mental illness and they won't get the treatment they need in the adult system. They also asked Bohren to find the state law forcing 10-year-olds into adult court unconstitutional because it leads to cruel and unusual punishment.

Bohren refused to find the statutes unconstitutional on Thursday, writing that juveniles aren't as culpable for their actions as adults but that doesn't exempt them from adult sentences.

He rejected the rest of the defense teams' arguments on Monday. He acknowledged what he called the girls' delusions and mental illness, but said if he moved them into the juvenile system they'd be free and clear at age 18 with no oversight and no more treatment. If they are convicted as adults, they'd eventually be released on extended supervision and treatment would continue.

He said keeping the girls in the adult system would protect the community, noting again that their alleged crime was no accident.

"This was an effort to kill someone," the judge said. "This was premeditated murder."

The judge set the girls' arraignment, the point in the criminal justice system when defendants enter pleas, for Aug. 21.

The Associated Press isn't naming the girls because an appeals court could still move their cases to juvenile court, where proceedings are closed to the public.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-08-11

[alfalfa19]

"Police captured the girls on the outskirts of the city that same day. They told investigators they planned to walk 300 miles to the Nicolet National Forest, where they hoped to live as Slender Man's servants in his mansion."

Hard to comprehend this. They must be mentally handicapped, or using drugs, or both.

[Seastallion]

Insanity plea. At least that way they get help and stay out of society.

[ABCer]

Somehow we always are concerned more with the criminals.

They are insane... or temporary insane... or criminally insane... or immature... or simply they are soooo young... etc.

How about the girl they planned to kill, trapped in and executed their plan with callous vicious cruelty? 19 stab wounds!

[oneday]

On the one hand I think 65 years might be a bit draconian given their age at the time, but on the other hand if they are metal cases they need help and monitoring until a qualified professional says they are ready to be released...maybe 10 years...who knows.

[mrwebb8825]

I don't believe they are mentally anything. I do however believe they were morally educated incorrectly. You have to keep in mind that they are in fact, children. Children are what they are taught to be until they develop enough to start making informed decisions about right and wrong. Anyone recall Lord of the Flies? Not so far from reality as you may have thought. Are they too far gone to be retrained as it were? Only time will tell. But, they need nurturing care as well as stricter discipline and not just "studied" and evaluated. A wary eye needs to be cast at their parents as well for not keeping closer tabs on their internet usage, not teaching them correct ethical and moral behavior or even just staying involved in their day to day lives explaining what's real and what's fantasy.

[spidermike007]

All three girls were 12 years old at the time. Anyone 10 or older charged with first-degree attempted homicide is automatically considered an adult under Wisconsin law.

Well, one cannot argue with a reasonable law, like this one. Trying them as adults is a beautiful thing. That is certainly what they deserve. It appears they got bad advice from slender man. He is not a good counselor. There are certain acts one commits, which cross the line. This was one of them. Stabbing a classmate? <deleted>? Hope they get put away for a long, long time. And hope the judiciary in Thailand are watching. Same with the lawmakers. They could learn alot from this trial, about law and order, manning up, being courageous, and meting out sufficient punishment to create a deterrent.

[Jimlove]

To Hell with the 2 wannabe murderers - take care of the victim in stead ...

[Somtamnication]

Only in America.

[stevenl]

All three girls were 12 years old at the time. Anyone 10 or older charged with first-degree attempted homicide is automatically considered an adult under Wisconsin law.

Well, one cannot argue with a reasonable law, like this one. Trying them as adults is a beautiful thing. That is certainly what they deserve. It appears they got bad advice from slender man. He is not a good counselor. There are certain acts one commits, which cross the line. This was one of them. Stabbing a classmate? <deleted>? Hope they get put away for a long, long time. And hope the judiciary in Thailand are watching. Same with the lawmakers. They could learn alot from this trial, about law and order, manning up, being courageous, and meting out sufficient punishment to create a deterrent.

So commit an adult crime as a juvenile and be treated as an adult? If that is the law, as you say it is and I don't know, I strongly disagree with that law. A 12 year old should be treated as a 12 year old, not as an adult.

[ABCer]

On the one hand I think 65 years might be a bit draconian given their age at the time, but on the other hand if they are metal cases they need help and monitoring until a qualified professional says they are ready to be released...maybe 10 years...who knows.

If you had a daughter,

And if this happened to her,

And if you were a judge presiding in this case,

You would be letting them off at 13 + 10 = 23 years of age!

Or wouldn't you? ... 19 stabbing wounds! In a forest! Planning for 60 days! Luring her after a sleepover! Not exactly an act on a spur of the moment...

This Judge did one thing right. Now he must set an adequate time with no parole.

[wabothai]

Parents never noticed anything like strange behavior? I just wonder.

On the other hand, if the girls are able to commit such evildeeds, there must be something wrong with the parents too, and therefore should also be investigated.

[Acharn]

"Police captured the girls on the outskirts of the city that same day. They told investigators they planned to walk 300 miles to the Nicolet National Forest, where they hoped to live as Slender Man's servants in his mansion."

Hard to comprehend this. They must be mentally handicapped, or using drugs, or both.

Well, first of all, they're children. Second, yeah, I think they don't have a very good distinction between fantasy and reality. Most twelve year olds know the difference between a computer game, for example, and reality. They seem to have gotten caught up in a story and came to believe it was true. Well, there are grown up people who believe the "Left Behind" series of novels depict what's really going to happen.

I think the decision to try them as adults is misguided and ... I just think it's crazy.

[LawrenceN]

Only in America.

I was thinking the same thing, and I'm American. In fact, I was a resident of Wisconsin until four years ago. Remember, if/when these girls are released, they will be able to buy guns. No more playing nice with mere knives for them! Their victim wouldn't have survived 19 gunshot wounds. Cue the gun-nuts, 3-2-1 . . .

[Acharn]

Somehow we always are concerned more with the criminals.

They are insane... or temporary insane... or criminally insane... or immature... or simply they are soooo young... etc.

How about the girl they planned to kill, trapped in and executed their plan with callous vicious cruelty? 19 stab wounds!

Yes, 19 stab wounds. Are you saying the appropriate thing is to give the girls a fair trial and then stab them to death? I'd like to point out, by the way, the actual trial hasn't been held yet. What we have so far is the story the girls have told. Their demeanor while telling the story, from what I've read, was of people assuming the adults listening to them would understand what they were talking about. Kind of their version of getting ready for the Rapture. To them it seemed a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

I'll bet you're afraid to let the "terrorists" out of Guantanamo, too.

[ABCer]

Somehow we always are concerned more with the criminals.

They are insane... or temporary insane... or criminally insane... or immature... or simply they are soooo young... etc.

How about the girl they planned to kill, trapped in and executed their plan with callous vicious cruelty? 19 stab wounds!

Yes, 19 stab wounds. Are you saying the appropriate thing is to give the girls a fair trial and then stab them to death? I'd like to point out, by the way, the actual trial hasn't been held yet. What we have so far is the story the girls have told. Their demeanor while telling the story, from what I've read, was of people assuming the adults listening to them would understand what they were talking about. Kind of their version of getting ready for the Rapture. To them it seemed a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

I'll bet you're afraid to let the "terrorists" out of Guantanamo, too.

Acharn,

where did you see me saying to stab them to death? Why even imagine this? Don't you get Rapturous on my account even if it seems perfectly reasonable to you.

The trial has started and it was the Judge's decision not to send them to juvenile Court.

"Their version of getting ready for the Rapture" may be close to your understanding but not mine and obviously not Judge's.

Perhaps the fact that "to them it was a perfectly reasonable thing to do" lead the Judge to his decision. IMHO a good one.

When, where and how the "terrorists" from Guantanamo came into this argument?

But to put your mind to rest - I wouldn't keep them so long... alive. Satisfied?

And I'll bet they let you out of the clinic prematurely or you missed on your medication.

[stevenl]

On the one hand I think 65 years might be a bit draconian given their age at the time, but on the other hand if they are metal cases they need help and monitoring until a qualified professional says they are ready to be released...maybe 10 years...who knows.

If you had a daughter,

And if this happened to her,

And if you were a judge presiding in this case,

You would be letting them off at 13 + 10 = 23 years of age!

Or wouldn't you? ... 19 stabbing wounds! In a forest! Planning for 60 days! Luring her after a sleepover! Not exactly an act on a spur of the moment...

This Judge did one thing right. Now he must set an adequate time with no parole.

They're still kids.

And victims are really bad judges

[SOTIRIOS]

.......absolutely....

..they should do the same for all crimes...regardless of age...

[Nice Boyd]

Only in America.

BS about America, its a Huge Country , its like 50 countries under one roof ,I blame most of this crap on Video Games, Say what u want, too much Violence, enough with the only in America Crap

[vogie]

Only in America.

BS about America, its a Huge Country , its like 50 countries under one roof ,I blame most of this crap on Video Games, Say what u want, too much Violence, enough with the only in America Crap

Americaness?

[halloween]

So is it harder to believe in Slender Man, an unnaturally thin, faceless creature who preys on children, and who only lives 300 miles away in the Nicolet National Forest, or some god in the sky? Slender Man's on the internet, and he's scary and exciting.

[ABCer]

Slender Man is on Internet and a fictitious character.

So is Santa Claus.

So is Carlsson on the roof and Cinderella and Pinocchio and Witches of Eastwick and the Superman.

These 'kids' or 'children' were most likely taught at school the basic facts of life. Like menstrual cycles and use of condoms.

I am not sure how inquisitive their mind was in respect of all they knew by the age of innocent 12.

What I know is: -

- they didn't jump off the roof

- they didn't climb into their friend's bedroom through the chimney to give her a present

- they didn't plant their lunch money in the backyard under the tree

- they didn't catch mice and carve a carriage out of pumpkin to go and see their Slender Man in the forest.

In my life I had two children. A girl and a boy. Both are over 40 by now. Both went through all stages of growing up.

I can clearly remember them at 12. They also never tried the above nonsense.

But neither of them conspired, planned, executed any murder at 12.

And if any of the apologetic idiots here would try to 'teach' them ideas like this even at 8 or 10 - they would consider you as I do - idiots.

And most likely would have sent you in the right direction... I'm sure by 12 all 'kids' know this direction.

The Judge is right not buying this 'kids' excuse.

Edited August 12, 2015 by ABCer

[Nice Boyd]

Only in America.

BS about America, its a Huge Country , its like 50 countries under one roof ,I blame most of this crap on Video Games, Say what u want, too much Violence, enough with the only in America Crap

Americaness?

Have to Defend the Stars and Stripes on TVF