Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[Rykbanlor]

It's a farce............BiB scratching their heads in front of a judge, no BiB knows what they had or where it is even if they had it.

Gawd strewth........No wonder the BiB were sent away many times to TRY and sort their stuff out to make a case......

They obviously couldn't do it...........

I have my own opinion about the whole episode that I cannot write here...........

Not just you Transam, If we could all speak our opinions on here TV would probably get shut down.

[Fat Haggis]

More BS.... I worked on trying to gain evidence who the phone belonged to. I have a copy of the file.

It is a mute point that the phone did or didn't belong to David, lets assume that it did, then there will be up to 4 peoples DNA and finger prints on it, the first is obvious Davids, then if the testimony is true it will also have the DNA of the guy who dumped it and at least one of the accused, I have heard nothing reported by the police that they tested this phone for anything, the police claim they found it smashed up in the bushes - how convenient

This is direct from my source within the court yesterday and I quote ok...

"The phone was apparently returned from UK as UK refused to examine it. Police said yesterday IMEI number said to be David's. No written conf. Phone not presented as evidence in court. Just arrived at court in box."

Then a later update:

"First time phone was in court, 12 days into the trial. Prosecution say it is David's but no conclusive proof yet."

So the Thai police sent it to England and they returned it without an answer. and they will not answer as it beaches protocol in death sentence cases.

I worked on trying to get the info from the phone company and they kept kicking it back to the police. Despite the importance of finding out.

I for one want to know if they done it. I am not 100% sure if they had NO involvement in the case at all. There is so many theorys ... remember also that their mate worked in the AC bar. They left the guitar in the AC so they have a link to the AC bar. They are obviously known to the AC owners I don't doubt.

What I don't believe is these 2 guys did this on their own. The evidence I have seen and heard so far suggests they didn't.

You must also remember that they don't dispute they where on the beach. If the was closer to the AC and David and Hannah left there following a bust up and started to run whats the first thing you loose.

Your sunglasses hanging on your shirt and the phone bouncing around in your pocket??

Just an idea, What I cant believe is the absolute silence coming from the island.

No witnesses to the altercation in the bar. Nothing.... somebody has something to hide without doubt.....

Anyway <deleted> do I know?? perhaps a few things about evidence and UK witnesses. A little about the autopsy procedure as told to me by the case officer for Hannah without being specific about her case. Just procedure.. The location of Sean McAnna...Not enough to judge 2 men and whether they should die for this crime.

You shouldn't really be too surprised at the silence from the expat community on Koh Tao, as a great deal of them are there without the correct paperwork to be there, and to be working, no work permits or visa, this is a very small community who will watch over each others backs, in other words, play nice, and play ball, you will have no dramas.. upset the apple cart and it's a long way to the mainland. I met a reiki masseuse, who had been on Samui for a couple of years, and was looking to relocate to KT, I asked he about the WP's and Visa, and she smiled wryly, it's all about who you know.

The inhabitants of Koh Tao share alarming similarities of the inhabitants of Pitcairn Island, and the Orkney Islands once the child abuse cases hit the mainstream media, all of a sudden people knew nothing.. I don't blame them really, self preservation is pretty evident.

I always thought it was a really nice island, and it seemed to have a pretty "friendly" atmosphere, I was quite surprised however about just how the Island was run, outside it looks quite idyllic, inside, I do believe there's a genuine fear amongst some of the expat community down there.

I said this yesterday, this is nothing more than a sideshow, a token trial, if this is the best the RTP and the prosecution could come up with after the case being submitted 4-5 times, then it's very obvious of the outcome, the blanket ban on reporting is also pretty disgusting, as it's not about justice for Hannah and David, it's about maintaining the image of the Island in the name of tourism, and that folks, is going all the way to the very top.

This isn't a murder trial, this is face saving, damage limitation at it's very worst, the lives of these two young people mean nothing to Thailand, but the revenue lost to bad publicity in the name of tourism means so much more, especially in a wobbling economy.

[loonodingle]

More BS.... I worked on trying to gain evidence who the phone belonged to. I have a copy of the file.

It is a mute point that the phone did or didn't belong to David, lets assume that it did, then there will be up to 4 peoples DNA and finger prints on it, the first is obvious Davids, then if the testimony is true it will also have the DNA of the guy who dumped it and at least one of the accused, I have heard nothing reported by the police that they tested this phone for anything, the police claim they found it smashed up in the bushes - how convenient

This is direct from my source within the court yesterday and I quote ok...

"The phone was apparently returned from UK as UK refused to examine it. Police said yesterday IMEI number said to be David's. No written conf. Phone not presented as evidence in court. Just arrived at court in box."

Then a later update:

"First time phone was in court, 12 days into the trial. Prosecution say it is David's but no conclusive proof yet."

So the Thai police sent it to England and they returned it without an answer. and they will not answer as it beaches protocol in death sentence cases.

I worked on trying to get the info from the phone company and they kept kicking it back to the police. Despite the importance of finding out.

I for one want to know if they done it. I am not 100% sure if they had NO involvement in the case at all. There is so many theorys ... remember also that their mate worked in the AC bar. They left the guitar in the AC so they have a link to the AC bar. They are obviously known to the AC owners I don't doubt.

What I don't believe is these 2 guys did this on their own. The evidence I have seen and heard so far suggests they didn't.

You must also remember that they don't dispute they where on the beach. If the was closer to the AC and David and Hannah left there following a bust up and started to run whats the first thing you loose.

Your sunglasses hanging on your shirt and the phone bouncing around in your pocket??

Just an idea, What I cant believe is the absolute silence coming from the island.

No witnesses to the altercation in the bar. Nothing.... somebody has something to hide without doubt.....

Anyway <deleted> do I know?? perhaps a few things about evidence and UK witnesses. A little about the autopsy procedure as told to me by the case officer for Hannah without being specific about her case. Just procedure.. The location of Sean McAnna...Not enough to judge 2 men and whether they should die for this crime.

You shouldn't really be too surprised at the silence from the expat community on Koh Tao, as a great deal of them are there without the correct paperwork to be there, and to be working, no work permits or visa, this is a very small community who will watch over each others backs, in other words, play nice, and play ball, you will have no dramas.. upset the apple cart and it's a long way to the mainland. I met a reiki masseuse, who had been on Samui for a couple of years, and was looking to relocate to KT, I asked he about the WP's and Visa, and she smiled wryly, it's all about who you know.

The inhabitants of Koh Tao share alarming similarities of the inhabitants of Pitcairn Island, and the Orkney Islands once the child abuse cases hit the mainstream media, all of a sudden people knew nothing.. I don't blame them really, self preservation is pretty evident.

I always thought it was a really nice island, and it seemed to have a pretty "friendly" atmosphere, I was quite surprised however about just how the Island was run, outside it looks quite idyllic, inside, I do believe there's a genuine fear amongst some of the expat community down there.

I said this yesterday, this is nothing more than a sideshow, a token trial, if this is the best the RTP and the prosecution could come up with after the case being submitted 4-5 times, then it's very obvious of the outcome, the blanket ban on reporting is also pretty disgusting, as it's not about justice for Hannah and David, it's about maintaining the image of the Island in the name of tourism, and that folks, is going all the way to the very top.

This isn't a murder trial, this is face saving, damage limitation at it's very worst, the lives of these two young people mean nothing to Thailand, but the revenue lost to bad publicity in the name of tourism means so much more, especially in a wobbling economy.

Very Good Summary........... Hannah and Davids lives mean nothing to the Thai's who have vested interest. It means not a lot more to the UK authority's in the bigger picture of PC behaviour.

Approx 360 Brits die in Thailand every year by various means. Many I would say under suspicious circumstances but who cares?? Not many.. only a few.. and we have a concentration of them on this forum.

[Lorn]

Can you give more details?

Yes, to some extent, but i don't have the full picture, maybe tomorrow but my understanding is DNA evidence does link the two accused to the crime, this was a driver behind the defence not wanting a retest, profiles do match.

Not very surprising though, that was the missing evidence from the prosecution case so far.

As for the defense not wanting to retest it, to me it is rather telling. If as they claimed they have evidence that contradicts the results I don't see why they would refuse to have the retest done, either it would come back as a no match and that would put the prosecution case in disarray or it could come back as a match and then the defense could show their evidence proving it as being wrong, either from an error in the investigation or due to actual malice, either way it would again be extremely damaging to the prosecution.

Their refusal to have a retest tells me that whatever they card they may have to play is not enough to counter the DNA evidence of the prosecution, hence the refusal.

You keep repeating this but it is totally illogical. Let me try to make it simple. The BiB have 2 DNA samples ( x and y) from different parts of the crime scene. They say they are a match and are one of the defendants (z). For the prosecution x, y and z all need to be the same and need to be what they say they are. The defense only needs to show one of these is incorrect. They don't need to test all 3.

[stephenterry]

Can you give more details?

Yes, to some extent, but i don't have the full picture, maybe tomorrow but my understanding is DNA evidence does link the two accused to the crime, this was a driver behind the defence not wanting a retest, profiles do match.

Not very surprising though, that was the missing evidence from the prosecution case so far.

As for the defense not wanting to retest it, to me it is rather telling. If as they claimed they have evidence that contradicts the results I don't see why they would refuse to have the retest done, either it would come back as a no match and that would put the prosecution case in disarray or it could come back as a match and then the defense could show their evidence proving it as being wrong, either from an error in the investigation or due to actual malice, either way it would again be extremely damaging to the prosecution.

Their refusal to have a retest tells me that whatever they card they may have to play is not enough to counter the DNA evidence of the prosecution, hence the refusal.

You keep repeating this but it is totally illogical. Let me try to make it simple. The BiB have 2 DNA samples ( x and y) from different parts of the crime scene. They say they are a match and are one of the defendants (z). For the prosecution x, y and z all need to be the same and need to be what they say they are. The defense only needs to show one of these is incorrect. They don't need to test all 3.

I don't understand this logic. In the above example, surely for both x and y to match z, then x must equal y.

[loonodingle]

Not very surprising though, that was the missing evidence from the prosecution case so far.

As for the defense not wanting to retest it, to me it is rather telling. If as they claimed they have evidence that contradicts the results I don't see why they would refuse to have the retest done, either it would come back as a no match and that would put the prosecution case in disarray or it could come back as a match and then the defense could show their evidence proving it as being wrong, either from an error in the investigation or due to actual malice, either way it would again be extremely damaging to the prosecution.

Their refusal to have a retest tells me that whatever they card they may have to play is not enough to counter the DNA evidence of the prosecution, hence the refusal.

You keep repeating this but it is totally illogical. Let me try to make it simple. The BiB have 2 DNA samples ( x and y) from different parts of the crime scene. They say they are a match and are one of the defendants (z). For the prosecution x, y and z all need to be the same and need to be what they say they are. The defense only needs to show one of these is incorrect. They don't need to test all 3.

Let him have his fun..

We will get ours next week when the defence take the stand. Bet he/she goes quite then... On Vacation...

[stephenterry]

It's a farce............BiB scratching their heads in front of a judge, no BiB knows what they had or where it is even if they had it.

Gawd strewth........No wonder the BiB were sent away many times to TRY and sort their stuff out to make a case......

They obviously couldn't do it...........

I have my own opinion about the whole episode that I cannot write here...........

Not just you Transam, If we could all speak our opinions on here TV would probably get shut down.

As well as facing a defamation law suit...

[AleG]

Not very surprising though, that was the missing evidence from the prosecution case so far.

As for the defense not wanting to retest it, to me it is rather telling. If as they claimed they have evidence that contradicts the results I don't see why they would refuse to have the retest done, either it would come back as a no match and that would put the prosecution case in disarray or it could come back as a match and then the defense could show their evidence proving it as being wrong, either from an error in the investigation or due to actual malice, either way it would again be extremely damaging to the prosecution.

Their refusal to have a retest tells me that whatever they card they may have to play is not enough to counter the DNA evidence of the prosecution, hence the refusal.

You keep repeating this but it is totally illogical. Let me try to make it simple. The BiB have 2 DNA samples ( x and y) from different parts of the crime scene. They say they are a match and are one of the defendants (z). For the prosecution x, y and z all need to be the same and need to be what they say they are. The defense only needs to show one of these is incorrect. They don't need to test all 3.

Let's see if I can unravel what you are saying.

The defense agreed to have some items retested, if I remember correctly the murder weapon and some bloody clothes and of course the DNA from the defendants; they refused to retest the DNA found inside the rape victim.

So lets call X the hoe/bloody clothes DNA, Y the one from the victim and Z the one from the defendants.

As things stand now they have X and Z to compare with each other, if there is no match between them, or if there's DNA that matches someone else it does not follow that Y is a no match with Z and therefore the case has no merit.

[Tonyrichard]

More BS.... I worked on trying to gain evidence who the phone belonged to. I have a copy of the file.

It is a mute point that the phone did or didn't belong to David, lets assume that it did, then there will be up to 4 peoples DNA and finger prints on it, the first is obvious Davids, then if the testimony is true it will also have the DNA of the guy who dumped it and at least one of the accused, I have heard nothing reported by the police that they tested this phone for anything, the police claim they found it smashed up in the bushes - how convenient

This is direct from my source within the court yesterday and I quote ok...

"The phone was apparently returned from UK as UK refused to examine it. Police said yesterday IMEI number said to be David's. No written conf. Phone not presented as evidence in court. Just arrived at court in box."

Then a later update:

"First time phone was in court, 12 days into the trial. Prosecution say it is David's but no conclusive proof yet."

So the Thai police sent it to England and they returned it without an answer. and they will not answer as it beaches protocol in death sentence cases.

I worked on trying to get the info from the phone company and they kept kicking it back to the police. Despite the importance of finding out.

I for one want to know if they done it. I am not 100% sure if they had NO involvement in the case at all. There is so many theorys ... remember also that their mate worked in the AC bar. They left the guitar in the AC so they have a link to the AC bar. They are obviously known to the AC owners I don't doubt.

What I don't believe is these 2 guys did this on their own. The evidence I have seen and heard so far suggests they didn't.

You must also remember that they don't dispute they where on the beach. If the was closer to the AC and David and Hannah left there following a bust up and started to run whats the first thing you loose.

Your sunglasses hanging on your shirt and the phone bouncing around in your pocket??

Just an idea, What I cant believe is the absolute silence coming from the island.

No witnesses to the altercation in the bar. Nothing.... somebody has something to hide without doubt.....

Anyway <deleted> do I know?? perhaps a few things about evidence and UK witnesses. A little about the autopsy procedure as told to me by the case officer for Hannah without being specific about her case. Just procedure.. The location of Sean McAnna...Not enough to judge 2 men and whether they should die for this crime.

You shouldn't really be too surprised at the silence from the expat community on Koh Tao, as a great deal of them are there without the correct paperwork to be there, and to be working, no work permits or visa, this is a very small community who will watch over each others backs, in other words, play nice, and play ball, you will have no dramas.. upset the apple cart and it's a long way to the mainland. I met a reiki masseuse, who had been on Samui for a couple of years, and was looking to relocate to KT, I asked he about the WP's and Visa, and she smiled wryly, it's all about who you know.

The inhabitants of Koh Tao share alarming similarities of the inhabitants of Pitcairn Island, and the Orkney Islands once the child abuse cases hit the mainstream media, all of a sudden people knew nothing.. I don't blame them really, self preservation is pretty evident.

I always thought it was a really nice island, and it seemed to have a pretty "friendly" atmosphere, I was quite surprised however about just how the Island was run, outside it looks quite idyllic, inside, I do believe there's a genuine fear amongst some of the expat community down there.

I said this yesterday, this is nothing more than a sideshow, a token trial, if this is the best the RTP and the prosecution could come up with after the case being submitted 4-5 times, then it's very obvious of the outcome, the blanket ban on reporting is also pretty disgusting, as it's not about justice for Hannah and David, it's about maintaining the image of the Island in the name of tourism, and that folks, is going all the way to the very top.

This isn't a murder trial, this is face saving, damage limitation at it's very worst, the lives of these two young people mean nothing to Thailand, but the revenue lost to bad publicity in the name of tourism means so much more, especially in a wobbling economy.

Agree with you, Fat Haggis. In connection with the protection of Koh Tao's pristine, spotless image and reputation for tourism, something that no one seems so far to have noticed: the Wikipedia article on Koh Tao bears no reference to these horrible crimes whatsoever. There is mention of the dangers of motorcycles on the island - but nothing regarding a different type of danger lurking there (Hannah and David were not the first or only victims). This silence on a major historical event on the island is of course highly significant and eloquent. Someone tried in early March to mention the Koh Tao murders on the Wikipedia page about the island - but predictably someone (with a vested interest?) removed that information, giving a totally unconvincing, feeble excuse for such censorship. So we see that control of the flow of true information about Koh Tao is even being exerted into the pages of the world's biggest and most consulted encyclopedia. Very telling, very eloquent silence!

[metisdead]

A post commenting on moderation has been removed.

Another post containing a personal attack on another member was removed.

[mcm991]

Not very surprising though, that was the missing evidence from the prosecution case so far.

As for the defense not wanting to retest it, to me it is rather telling. If as they claimed they have evidence that contradicts the results I don't see why they would refuse to have the retest done, either it would come back as a no match and that would put the prosecution case in disarray or it could come back as a match and then the defense could show their evidence proving it as being wrong, either from an error in the investigation or due to actual malice, either way it would again be extremely damaging to the prosecution.

Their refusal to have a retest tells me that whatever they card they may have to play is not enough to counter the DNA evidence of the prosecution, hence the refusal.

You keep repeating this but it is totally illogical. Let me try to make it simple. The BiB have 2 DNA samples ( x and y) from different parts of the crime scene. They say they are a match and are one of the defendants (z). For the prosecution x, y and z all need to be the same and need to be what they say they are. The defense only needs to show one of these is incorrect. They don't need to test all 3.

Let's see if I can unravel what you are saying.

The defense agreed to have some items retested, if I remember correctly the murder weapon and some bloody clothes and of course the DNA from the defendants; they refused to retest the DNA found inside the rape victim.

So lets call X the hoe/bloody clothes DNA, Y the one from the victim and Z the one from the defendants.

As things stand now they have X and Z to compare with each other, if there is no match between them, or if there's DNA that matches someone else it does not follow that Y is a no match with Z and therefore the case has no merit.

No. That is incorrect. The DNA from the victim was 'used up'......... or lost or the dog ate it ... Can't remember which.

I think that has been pointed out to you quite a few times, yet you insist on bringing it up on an almost daily basis.

[thailandchilli]

When those with vested interests in KT post on here and hide their own interests from others then they are immoral and the lowest of the low. Yes Karma will eventually catch up with you, enjoy the payback

[BritTim]

A little more information from the Myanmar Times: http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/16198-thai-police-confirm-british-cooperation-in-koh-tao-case.html.

This may be significant:

Ko Wai Phyo has said that he was given the mobile phone by someone on Koh Tao, where the pair was killed on September 15, 2014.

It is not clear if this gift occurred on the night of the murders. It also does not explain why the phone ended up smashed. This is the only prosecution evidence that presents difficulties for the defense IMHO, though it definitely is insufficient in and of itself o support a charge of rape and murder.

Maybe the defendants were gifted the phone on the night of the murders. I think if I'd been ordered by my boss to help move/re-arrange the bodies and the crime scene I'd be looking for some form of reward, but only on the understanding that my involvement was going to be kept secret. I'd certainly be looking to dispose of the phone when I realised later that I was being set-up as a scapegoat, wouldn't you?

That scenario occurred to me, but does not paint the Burmese kids in a very positive light. Remember (this was testified in court) the Burmese kids have said they did not know who carried out the murders. The only somewhat possible scenario I can think of that makes them look good goes something like this. Ko Wai Phyo was given the phone by another Burmese who said he had found it (perhaps as part of a deliberate fit up). When he became aware it could be David's phone, he disposed of it. Ko Wai Phyo originally said he found the phone to avoid (as he thought) incriminating someone else who was innocent. It fits the facts, but it must be admitted that there are plenty of other possibilities that suggest Ko Wai Phyo was at the scene at the time of the crime.

[boomerangutang]

The 2 or 3 types of DNA found in/on Hannah are crucial. A lead RTP investigator said it was 'used up' but hours later, his boss (Somyot) said 'nothing was lost' (conveniently not mentioning the lost hair). DNA from the B2 or other living people (H's people, for example) is not such a big deal, as that can be re-gathered and re-typed if needed. The DNA trail overseen by the RTP is untrustworthy, so that's part of the reason the defense team chose not to continue to have RTP handle DNA. The defense was told that re-tested samples would have to involve the RTP. The court continues to keep anything related to the H's people at arm's length. Like the RTP/prosecution/headman, they don't any mention of Nomsod in any context.

It's likely the defense will introduce findings from British forensics - in September. Whether the judges will give it as much or more credence than findings from RTP - is yet to be seen.

And Stephen Terry is right. As far as we've heard/seen, no tangible DNA data has been shown during the prosecutions' presentations. They've made verbal claims, sure, but have they shown anything tangible, such as typing cards from clinics? Even typing cards, if coming via RTP, would be questionable.

[Rykbanlor]

You shouldn't really be too surprised at the silence from the expat community on Koh Tao, as a great deal of them are there without the correct paperwork to be there, and to be working, no work permits or visa, this is a very small community who will watch over each others backs, in other words, play nice, and play ball, you will have no dramas.. upset the apple cart and it's a long way to the mainland. I met a reiki masseuse, who had been on Samui for a couple of years, and was looking to relocate to KT, I asked he about the WP's and Visa, and she smiled wryly, it's all about who you know.

The inhabitants of Koh Tao share alarming similarities of the inhabitants of Pitcairn Island, and the Orkney Islands once the child abuse cases hit the mainstream media, all of a sudden people knew nothing.. I don't blame them really, self preservation is pretty evident.

I always thought it was a really nice island, and it seemed to have a pretty "friendly" atmosphere, I was quite surprised however about just how the Island was run, outside it looks quite idyllic, inside, I do believe there's a genuine fear amongst some of the expat community down there.

I said this yesterday, this is nothing more than a sideshow, a token trial, if this is the best the RTP and the prosecution could come up with after the case being submitted 4-5 times, then it's very obvious of the outcome, the blanket ban on reporting is also pretty disgusting, as it's not about justice for Hannah and David, it's about maintaining the image of the Island in the name of tourism, and that folks, is going all the way to the very top.

This isn't a murder trial, this is face saving, damage limitation at it's very worst, the lives of these two young people mean nothing to Thailand, but the revenue lost to bad publicity in the name of tourism means so much more, especially in a wobbling economy.

Agree with you, Fat Haggis. In connection with the protection of Koh Tao's pristine, spotless image and reputation for tourism, something that no one seems so far to have noticed: the Wikipedia article on Koh Tao bears no reference to these horrible crimes whatsoever. There is mention of the dangers of motorcycles on the island - but nothing regarding a different type of danger lurking there (Hannah and David were not the first or only victims). This silence on a major historical event on the island is of course highly significant and eloquent. Someone tried in early March to mention the Koh Tao murders on the Wikipedia page about the island - but predictably someone (with a vested interest?) removed that information, giving a totally unconvincing, feeble excuse for such censorship. So we see that control of the flow of true information about Koh Tao is even being exerted into the pages of the world's biggest and most consulted encyclopedia. Very telling, very eloquent silence!

Also agree with great chieftain o' the pudding race but to digress, I just breezed through the Koh Tao Wiki-travel page and there is a mention of the murders and the mafia elements, drugs and deaths in the main paragraph. If there hadn't, I'd have been tempted to try my first wiki-edit.

[sambum]

Yes, to some extent, but i don't have the full picture, maybe tomorrow but my understanding is DNA evidence does link the two accused to the crime, this was a driver behind the defence not wanting a retest, profiles do match.

Not very surprising though, that was the missing evidence from the prosecution case so far.

As for the defense not wanting to retest it, to me it is rather telling. If as they claimed they have evidence that contradicts the results I don't see why they would refuse to have the retest done, either it would come back as a no match and that would put the prosecution case in disarray or it could come back as a match and then the defense could show their evidence proving it as being wrong, either from an error in the investigation or due to actual malice, either way it would again be extremely damaging to the prosecution.

Their refusal to have a retest tells me that whatever they card they may have to play is not enough to counter the DNA evidence of the prosecution, hence the refusal.

You don't need to be a brain surgeon to work out the prosecution have the items for nearly a year. Stacked in a trolley somewhere?. They have had every opportunity to add substances to gain a positive result on a re-test.

The defence had the DNA taken in court upto Bangkok last Tuesday on the last flight out of Samui. Friday they had their results. Then announced we do not need anything else. We can prove our case.

As for David's phone my source tells me and their words.... Today

"The phone was apparently returned from UK as UK refused to examine it. Police said yesterday IMEI number said to be David's. No written conf. Phone not presented as evidence in court. Just arrived at court in box. First time phone was in court, 12 days into the trial. Prosecution say it is David's but no conclusive proof yet."

So as I said to YOU Ali G.. No evidence to confirm its Davids phone and you don't have it do you. if the court don't neither do you. Unless your mystic meg with a glass ball..

Actually perhaps you are?

Until such time as someone comes up with a logical explanation on how a phone would banish from one of the victims, an identical phone appeared on the hands of the accused on the same night and subsequently rather than doing the rational thing of keeping or attempting to sell that expensive phone they smashed it up and threw it away, any person whose mental faculties are, shall we say, present, will derive the conclusion that the phone was the same and their actions spell out getting rid of incriminating evidence.

Of note though is that you, like IslandLover, show no inclination whatsoever to actually see the provenance of said phone verified; that is not the stance of someone looking for the truth in a quest for justice, that's the stance of someone that would gladly see relevant evidence being ignored because it would run contrary to a certain outcome.

Did I not read somewhere that the B2 had asked 2 other people to dispose of the phone for them? My question to that is - why involve anyone else in the process of " getting rid of incriminating evidence."? Are we to assume that they were incapable of getting rid of such evidence themselves, and would rather involve two other people in their deeds? I think not!

Also, if they were " getting rid of incriminating evidence." I think that ANYONE would have more sense than to try to get rid of it by depositing it in their own garden!

[JLCrab]

To Tony Richard -- This is the Wikipedia page which contains the information that was removed. It maybe contains original conclusions not supported by third party sources which is reason enough to ban something from Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ko_Tao&oldid=640800953

Edited August 29, 2015 by JLCrab

[Darkknight666]

If the prosecution had DNA that matched the report would either be released to shut everyone up, Or leaked because, well, Thailand. But neither have occurred. Their whole case is based on that evidence and for some odd reason nobody outside of the prosecution have seen it.

Careful what you post, Guys.... One of the most informed posters on the matter is on vacation through the duration of the trial. It's hard not to blow your top at the posters who bait you, just use ignore.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Darkknight666

[StealthEnergiser]

Thanks to Islandlover for posting the hoe pics (1415)

Is it just me or does there seem to be much more blood on the hoe when it was in the garden than under the tree? Could be just the quality of the photos I guess. Did it go from the tree to the garden or the garden to the tree?

I think one of the reasons that we have had problems with a certain group RTP defenders on this site is that photos were leaked on to the internet very soon after the murders .

These photo's are of the clothes and the hoe in two different positions and some of hannah with possible a spray pattern of blood on rocks similar to gunshot .

If there are people on the island that wanted this stopped or forums shut down they may have possibly hired a group of people good with english to stop this some of these people are very possibly connected to the island and dive industry.

I recall right back at the time of the murders at least one of the rtp defenders saying the hoe had not been moved,

I hope one if these b2 are proven innocent that some of the members on this group are investigated further .

I am not accusing anyone of being involved in a cover up but there is enough information on this site that raises questions.

The main reason there is a problem in this threads is that there's a small contingent of people, of which you are one, leveling outrageous, outright paranoid and certainly defamatory accusations against other people; much as you'd like to hide your beheaviour behind "I'm not accusing anyone...".

What sort of people would defend the investigation could it be to protect their vested interests as others have said.

These two young men could face the death penalty and it is a big possibility they are being setup .

How could anybody sleep at night if they contribute this way .

I understand many people done know who done it and want the truth unlike another group who don't want the truth.

[Tonyrichard]

You shouldn't really be too surprised at the silence from the expat community on Koh Tao, as a great deal of them are there without the correct paperwork to be there, and to be working, no work permits or visa, this is a very small community who will watch over each others backs, in other words, play nice, and play ball, you will have no dramas.. upset the apple cart and it's a long way to the mainland. I met a reiki masseuse, who had been on Samui for a couple of years, and was looking to relocate to KT, I asked he about the WP's and Visa, and she smiled wryly, it's all about who you know.

The inhabitants of Koh Tao share alarming similarities of the inhabitants of Pitcairn Island, and the Orkney Islands once the child abuse cases hit the mainstream media, all of a sudden people knew nothing.. I don't blame them really, self preservation is pretty evident.

I always thought it was a really nice island, and it seemed to have a pretty "friendly" atmosphere, I was quite surprised however about just how the Island was run, outside it looks quite idyllic, inside, I do believe there's a genuine fear amongst some of the expat community down there.

I said this yesterday, this is nothing more than a sideshow, a token trial, if this is the best the RTP and the prosecution could come up with after the case being submitted 4-5 times, then it's very obvious of the outcome, the blanket ban on reporting is also pretty disgusting, as it's not about justice for Hannah and David, it's about maintaining the image of the Island in the name of tourism, and that folks, is going all the way to the very top.

This isn't a murder trial, this is face saving, damage limitation at it's very worst, the lives of these two young people mean nothing to Thailand, but the revenue lost to bad publicity in the name of tourism means so much more, especially in a wobbling economy.

Agree with you, Fat Haggis. In connection with the protection of Koh Tao's pristine, spotless image and reputation for tourism, something that no one seems so far to have noticed: the Wikipedia article on Koh Tao bears no reference to these horrible crimes whatsoever. There is mention of the dangers of motorcycles on the island - but nothing regarding a different type of danger lurking there (Hannah and David were not the first or only victims). This silence on a major historical event on the island is of course highly significant and eloquent. Someone tried in early March to mention the Koh Tao murders on the Wikipedia page about the island - but predictably someone (with a vested interest?) removed that information, giving a totally unconvincing, feeble excuse for such censorship. So we see that control of the flow of true information about Koh Tao is even being exerted into the pages of the world's biggest and most consulted encyclopedia. Very telling, very eloquent silence!

Also agree with great chieftain o' the pudding race but to digress, I just breezed through the Koh Tao Wiki-travel page and there is a mention of the murders and the mafia elements, drugs and deaths in the main paragraph. If there hadn't, I'd have been tempted to try my first wiki-edit.

I'm not sure which article mentions the Koh Tao murders, etc, but all I can say is that I've just re-checked the main Wikipedia "Ko Tao" article, and I can see nothing about these events there. The link is this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko_Tao

Maybe I've overlooked something? I don't think so - but I'm willing to be proved wrong. Remember that I am speaking about Wikipedia - not any other 'wiki' information page. Wikipedia is the main source of information for most things on the Internet - usually one of the topmost sites given in any Google search of a main topic area. If I am right, it is highly significant that the Wikipedia article remains steadfastly silent regarding the rape and slaughter on Koh Tao.

[Sheryl]

Once again this thread has degenerated into endless, futile bickering.

Closed for now so tempers can cool.

[Scott]

As noted, the thread will remain closed for the time being.

The thread needs a review and a clean up. It will be re-opened in due course.

[thailandchilli]

Owner of mobile phone linking Burmese migrant workers to Hannah Witheridge murder never established

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/owner_of_mobile_phone_linking_burmese_migrant_workers_to_hannah_witheridge_murder_never_established_1_4213643

[Sheryl]

The thread is now re-opened on a test basis. Please note the following guidance:

1) Absolutely no bickering allowed. We have on this forum a number of people with opinions set in stone, both for and against the guilt of the accused (despite the fact that the trial has not even finished). Most of these members, on both "sides" of the issue, will not change their minds based on information or views provided by others. Do not attempt to "persuade" them, as experience has shown this leads nowhere.

Any violation of this will lead to the immediate suspension of all parties involved. We are not going to attempt to wade through multiple posts to who "started" it or who was more at fault than who. Everyone who bickers will be penalized.

2) Post in a manner respectful of the fact that this is not an armchair "whodunnit" for anyone's private entertainment but rather a terrible tragic event affecting flesh and blood people. Treating it as a game or puzzle is highly insensitive and disrespectful of the deceased, their families, and the accused and their families.

[JLCrab]

Note: This is the current Wikipedia page on Koh Tao: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko_Tao

This is the Wikipedia page for Koh Tao with a reference to the '2014 Tourist Murders' that was subsequently removed but I retrieved from the archives: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ko_Tao&oldid=640800953

Edited August 30, 2015 by JLCrab

[StealthEnergiser]

I was reading something earlier how the police were able to go through phone data in vicinity if the shrine and track down the bombers .

I wonder if the police should do the same at koh tao it could produce evidence of persons in the area times of calls etc.

[thailandchilli]

I was reading something earlier how the police were able to go through phone data in vicinity if the shrine and track down the bombers .

I wonder if the police should do the same at koh tao it could produce evidence of persons in the area times of calls etc.

Maybe they already have but we don't know the results or rather they "dont know" which seems to be the buzz phrase they say in court

Edited August 30, 2015 by thailandchilli

[StealthEnergiser]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

UK gov should respond to allegations UK officials assisted/provided evidence/info to Thai police in breach of protocol

[JLCrab]

From Murder ...of British Nationals Abroad

Relatives request UK police to assist in establishing the circumstances of the death of a British national.

This often arises where the family are dissatisfied with the investigation overseas, and seek advice in respect of best practice in murder investigation. It is important to remember here that UK Police have no power to conduct investigations overseas and the primacy of the relevant country must be respected;

• Formal request from an overseas authority for direct investigative assistance in the country where the death occurred. This is a very rare circumstance but when it does occur it often presents unique challenges. These include the need for clear Terms of Reference and full cost recovery for services provided. It also may demand senior diplomatic discussions around sensitive human rights matters such as death penalty sanctions for anyone subsequently convicted.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/141958/mou-fco-acpo-coroners.pdf

Edited August 30, 2015 by JLCrab

[smedly]

I was reading something earlier how the police were able to go through phone data in vicinity if the shrine and track down the bombers .

I wonder if the police should do the same at koh tao it could produce evidence of persons in the area times of calls etc.

that would be a normal line of enquiry in any investigation, all calls are logged with numbers times dates duration and IMEI, there won't be many cell towers/base stations on the Island I would guess 4 to 5 depending on terrain as they are line of sight, it will not identify the caller unless the phone is registered, if a persons number is known it could then be linked to the IMEI from the cell data

Edited August 30, 2015 by smedly