Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[PaPiPuPePo]

just the wounds caused by a man wearing a certain ring while he was raping a girl on koh tao long time ago.....

remind you something ?

Looks like road rash from falling off a motorcycle to me.

I think you should put the source of the picture to maintain some sanity to this thread. In all honesty..

Doesn't look like road rash to me and I've seen all kinds of it on my own and my riding buddies legs and arms over the years. The stitched-up areas wouldn't happen like that with road rash, no way.

The cuts on this girl's leg, Sean McEnna's arm, David's body= all the same weapon. Definitely.

This was caused by sliding down the concrete of a building. Its been confirmed perhaps someone will send you the link? You will see the cuts and some are a little deeper needing stiches. she does not have stab wounds. However its alleged the person who caused her to jump from the building tried (Did?) to rape her. The fact he wears a shark tooth is irrelevant IMHO.

To easy to get carried away with the mist sometimes. I have seen this injury style before. exactly the same. I jumped in the pool in star suites sukhumvit one night messing around with a good friend and she dragged her back down the stone chips they make the edging from. she had exactly the same injury.

Gotcha, granted all the road rash I've seen and done to myself has been on asphalt not concrete, you get variations on the strawberry look. Anyway, I was indeed speculating beyond my expertise, I stand corrected (looks around for sheepish-grin emoticon, fails.....)!

[lucaswallachia]

Seems that Tom Wood needs to be in court then to give this information first hand. 'Hannah and David went their separate ways' reads to me like Hannah and David separated but it sounds like he means they left the bar together. So Tom Wood could tell the court what bar they were in, approximate time they left and why he assumed they went to the beach. He might also be able to tell the court if he witnessed any altercation that evening/morning. This information coming from a man who only met Hannah and David that night? If that's the case then the victims friends should hopefully be able to fill in many more details about when they left, whether they were together when they left, whether there was an argument of any sort and if they did actually leave by the back door. Maybe Tom's statement will be read in court by the defence and shed some light.

I very much doubt the defense would bring that up since it supports the narrative from the prosecution, at least in terms of there not being a fight at the bar before the murders.

"Meanwhile, during the hearing yesterday afternoon Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha said he and other officers had not investigated rumours that Miss Witheridge had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death.

The officer said he was aware of rumours that the university graduate had an altercation inside the AC Bar while there with friends.

But he said neither he, nor his officers, actively followed up that line of inquiry. The senior investigating officer insisted there was no evidence to suggest she was followed from the bar."

That, I presume, came up during cross examination of the witness by the defense, so it stands to reason that it is a line of attack the defense has used (or at least tried) to cast doubt on the investigation.

So The senior investigating officer insisted there was no evidence to suggest she was followed from the bar. This might actually be true.

But what about the possibility the person she had an altercation with, together with some buddies, left the bar earlier?

what about the possibility this gang headed to the ocean view, weaponizing themself with let´s say a garden hoe and a hammer from the ocean view yard?

What about the possibilty of them knowing the best spot for an ambush between AC-BAR and ocean view, waiting their some 30 meters away, smoke a cigarette while waiting and charge on Hannah and David, who were simply returning to their accomomodation?

Well the question remains, why was David naked? There is no blood on his clothes so he must of been naked before he was killed.

[seahorse]

Mr Abbott said after the testimony: “Based on what we heard today, that he was stripped naked, had plastic bags placed over his head, blindfolded and made to fear for his life in order to extract a confession, it is very likely to meet the definition of torture as defined by the Convention Against Torture, to which Thailand is a party.

“In order for justice to be provided to the victims and their families, and to ensure fairness to the accused, today’s allegations of torture must be subject to a serious enquiry by the court and if proven, any evidence obtained as a result of the torture must be set aside.”

www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/one_of_the_men_accused_of_killing_hemsby_student_hannah_witheridge_could_have_been_tortured_1_4218129

This is just one of the key areas where the world will see if this is trial will be accepted as fair and transparent. The judge should before any decisions are made order an independent enquiry into the torture allegations and if proven to be true should dismiss any evidence surrounding those confessions.

Note, to be seen as fair not only for the victims and families, but also to the B2 and their families.

The world has already seen that this trial is not fair nor transparent.

[seahorse]

I believe the Defence has spoken to the 3 friends of Hannah and Also Chris and Jimmy Ware.

I would have expected them to have tried to ascertain if Nomsod was seen by any them and if they had any photos taken with him in it as well as many other issues. If they don't get this I would doubt his presence is likely to be proven. If there's anyone who could speak up it would be them. I also know they have tried to get McAnna to speak via video link to give evidence. I do not know the outcome of this.

We are in for some action though. Significant disclosures. Fingers crossed the judges take it on board.

@Madaussie - Tom Wood made this statement on facebook on December 3, 2014...have no idea if the defence spoke to either him or Matt Barrat though.

Tom Wood - Most importantly there’s nothing more that we would like than for this

case to be solved and for justice for Hannah and David. Me and Matt are just two lads from the UK who visited Koh Tao on our travels throughout Thailand…. We met Hannah and Emma ( H

annah’s friend she was travelling with) for the first time in a bar in Koh Tao that

night, and then proceeded to another bar with them in which Hannah and David went there separate ways….. I assume to the

beach. We have already been questioned by the Thai police, given full statements,explained and tried to help as much and in the best way we could by describing the whole night. Any misleading comments

from people jumping on the bandwagon, accusing us or calling for us to step up for justice are quite frankly out of place and unfair as we’ve already done all we could.

Happy to try and help or answer any further questions to anyone official if it’s needed. Thanks

December 3, 2014 at 8:00pm

Seems that Tom Wood needs to be in court then to give this information first hand. 'Hannah and David went their separate ways' reads to me like Hannah and David separated but it sounds like he means they left the bar together. So Tom Wood could tell the court what bar they were in, approximate time they left and why he assumed they went to the beach. He might also be able to tell the court if he witnessed any altercation that evening/morning. This information coming from a man who only met Hannah and David that night? If that's the case then the victims friends should hopefully be able to fill in many more details about when they left, whether they were together when they left, whether there was an argument of any sort and if they did actually leave by the back door. Maybe Tom's statement will be read in court by the defence and shed some light.

Sean said David had returned to the guesthouse but then gone out for some cigarettes.

[Madaussie]

Seems that Tom Wood needs to be in court then to give this information first hand. 'Hannah and David went their separate ways' reads to me like Hannah and David separated but it sounds like he means they left the bar together. So Tom Wood could tell the court what bar they were in, approximate time they left and why he assumed they went to the beach. He might also be able to tell the court if he witnessed any altercation that evening/morning. This information coming from a man who only met Hannah and David that night? If that's the case then the victims friends should hopefully be able to fill in many more details about when they left, whether they were together when they left, whether there was an argument of any sort and if they did actually leave by the back door. Maybe Tom's statement will be read in court by the defence and shed some light.

I very much doubt the defense would bring that up since it supports the narrative from the prosecution, at least in terms of there not being a fight at the bar before the murders.

"Meanwhile, during the hearing yesterday afternoon Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha said he and other officers had not investigated rumours that Miss Witheridge had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death.

The officer said he was aware of rumours that the university graduate had an altercation inside the AC Bar while there with friends.

But he said neither he, nor his officers, actively followed up that line of inquiry. The senior investigating officer insisted there was no evidence to suggest she was followed from the bar."

That, I presume, came up during cross examination of the witness by the defense, so it stands to reason that it is a line of attack the defense has used (or at least tried) to cast doubt on the investigation.

So The senior investigating officer insisted there was no evidence to suggest she was followed from the bar. This might actually be true.

But what about the possibility the person she had an altercation with, together with some buddies, left the bar earlier?

what about the possibility this gang headed to the ocean view, weaponizing themself with let´s say a garden hoe and a hammer from the ocean view yard?

What about the possibilty of them knowing the best spot for an ambush between AC-BAR and ocean view, waiting their some 30 meters away, smoke a cigarette while waiting and charge on Hannah and David, who were simply returning to their accomomodation?

Well the question remains, why was David naked? There is no blood on his clothes so he must of been naked before he was killed.

Perhaps they set the scene? positioned Hannah etc? I know he wasn't swimming with one sock on though. perhaps another error by the perps

[thailandchilli]

So The senior investigating officer insisted there was no evidence to suggest she was followed from the bar. This might actually be true.

But what about the possibility the person she had an altercation with, together with some buddies, left the bar earlier?

what about the possibility this gang headed to the ocean view, weaponizing themself with let´s say a garden hoe and a hammer from the ocean view yard?

What about the possibilty of them knowing the best spot for an ambush between AC-BAR and ocean view, waiting their some 30 meters away, smoke a cigarette while waiting and charge on Hannah and David, who were simply returning to their accomomodation?

Well the question remains, why was David naked? There is no blood on his clothes so he must of been naked before he was killed.

Perhaps they set the scene? positioned Hannah etc? I know he wasn't swimming with one sock on though. perhaps another error by the perps

its been reported that the victims clothes found on the beach were never forensically examined so we will never know for sure if there was blood or dna residue on them

[lostmebike]

Seems we can constantly speculate,just don't question the authorities on their incompetence for fear of censorship.

[Just1Voice]

Far to many questions, and no where near enough (truthful) answers.

[lucaswallachia]

Because with the amount of blood on the ground and david's injuries, if he was wearing his clothes at the time of the assault then his top and shorts which arfe both light coloured would of have visible blood on them which they dont.

[Jai Dee]

A number of posts containing baiting and trolling have been removed from this thread.

Please... if you are going to participate in the discussion, discuss the topic and not other members.

[BritTim]

Well the question remains, why was David naked? There is no blood on his clothes so he must of been naked before he was killed.

Almost naked (still wearing one sock) with his clothes strewn around according to initial photos. This is, indeed, a great question. One possibility is that the perpetrators removed his clothes and washed them in the sea to remove their blood. At the trial, I believe the prosecution showed only later photos with the clothing neatly placed together, so this question may not be answered at the trial. As no forensic examination of the alleged murder weapon was done, it is fair to assume that the clothing was not carefully examined either.

[BritTim]

Sean said David had returned to the guesthouse but then gone out for some cigarettes.

Sean never saw David that night. If you know different, this is huge new evidence: contact the defense team. Also, as David was a non smoker, it is unclear who he would buy cigarettes for.

Reports that are credible have the Ware brothers he was rooming with saying David left to look for Hannah. CCTV subsequently sees him enter AC Bar some time after Hannah.

[lucaswallachia]

Sean said David had returned to the guesthouse but then gone out for some cigarettes.

Sean never saw David that night. If you know different, this is huge new evidence: contact the defense team. Also, as David was a non smoker, it is unclear who he would buy cigarettes for.

Reports that are credible have the Ware brothers he was rooming with saying David left to look for Hannah. CCTV subsequently sees him enter AC Bar some time after Hannah.

It was the Ware brother he was staying with that said that David said he was going out to get smokes, but ended up looking for Hannah instead. Im pretty sure i saw a picture with David smoking, but did one of David's friends say he was a non-smoker?

[StealthEnergiser]

Well the question remains, why was David naked? There is no blood on his clothes so he must of been naked before he was killed.

Almost naked (still wearing one sock) with his clothes strewn around according to initial photos. This is, indeed, a great question. One possibility is that the perpetrators removed his clothes and washed them in the sea to remove their blood. At the trial, I believe the prosecution showed only later photos with the clothing neatly placed together, so this question may not be answered at the trial. As no forensic examination of the alleged murder weapon was done, it is fair to assume that the clothing was not carefully examined either.

[boomerangutang]

I would be interested to know if the clothes that were stolen from Win on the beach were described in court today. The top that Maung was wearing in the CCTV stills appeared to be the one that Win was wearing on the motorbike. So I'm wondering if the black top was the one that was supposedly stolen from the beach that Maung seemed to be wearing later on. unfortunately I cannot find a pic of Maung wearing it with a timestamp on but I believe other posters may have one. As often happens, I am not being given an option on here to attach files so will post separately.

You're concerned about details which a farang investigation/court would delve into. As we know, this drama is playing out in Thailand, and there are a plethora of details (which could be crucial) which won't be addressed. It would be like if you bring your car in to a Thai mechanic and start mentioning all sorts of problems (bald tires, brakes not working, clutch slipping, etc.). The mechanic reaches in, turns the key, starts the car and says, "see, no problem. Car can go. You ok now." Actually, to more accurately make the analogy with the trial proceedings, the mechanic (prosecution) would find a cig butt on the floor of the car and claim that's the cause of your problem.

ok so lets be clear about this

Nomsod in not on trial, the defense team are not police or prosecutors so Nomsod, Mon, Shark tooth guy or anyone else for that matter will be in this court room unless they have direct witness input.

If however someone uncovers undeniable ground breaking provable evidence that implicates them or anyone else then it would be reported to the police and it would be their duty to follow it up and investigate

That last statement is one of the funniest I have read in days. If someone uncovers evidence of Numnuts (Nomsod) involvement, it will be reported to the police, and it would be their duty to follow it up! Hilarious. His family is above the law. Why don't some people realize this yet? It will be their sworn duty to not follow it up! It will be their sworn duty to protect his family. It already happened. With a net worth in excess of $500,000,000US, that vermin family is absolutely and completely above any and every law in the land. That includes both the local police, the feds, and the army. Many seem to be in denial about this little factoid.

SpiderMike's comment on Smedly's closing remark isn't an attack on Smedly, but rather a commentary on how useless the RTP have been in their worse-than-shoddy investigation. They haven't even constructed a decent frame-up. It may suffice for the judges, but that would be saying more about the courts' proclivities than about justice. Justice from a farang perspective is different than how justice is meted out in Thailand.

i have had the misfortune to meet sean mc anna and what an attention seeking <deleted> i thought he was!!

A person doesn't have to an upstanding citizen (or someone you'd like your daughter to date) to possibly have some useful info re; a crime investigation. A pirate can give testimony as well as a Bible-thumping preacher.

[StealthEnergiser]

If you do a search "Koh Tao policeman challenged over killings " they speak about how the clothes were found piled neatly nearby.

[fireplay]

Sean said David had returned to the guesthouse but then gone out for some cigarettes.

Sean never saw David that night. If you know different, this is huge new evidence: contact the defense team. Also, as David was a non smoker, it is unclear who he would buy cigarettes for.

Reports that are credible have the Ware brothers he was rooming with saying David left to look for Hannah. CCTV subsequently sees him enter AC Bar some time after Hannah.

Hey ho i remember david being a smoker..it was hanna who didn't smoke. There was the last picture of them at the table...@stealthenergizer you have that one?

[StealthEnergiser]

Sean said David had returned to the guesthouse but then gone out for some cigarettes.

Sean never saw David that night. If you know different, this is huge new evidence: contact the defense team. Also, as David was a non smoker, it is unclear who he would buy cigarettes for.

Reports that are credible have the Ware brothers he was rooming with saying David left to look for Hannah. CCTV subsequently sees him enter AC Bar some time after Hannah.

Hey ho i remember david being a smoker..it was hanna who didn't smoke. There was the last picture of them at the table...@stealthenergizer you have that one?

this one ?

[Dr Phil]

Well the question remains, why was David naked? There is no blood on his clothes so he must of been naked before he was killed.

Almost naked (still wearing one sock) with his clothes strewn around according to initial photos. This is, indeed, a great question. One possibility is that the perpetrators removed his clothes and washed them in the sea to remove their blood. At the trial, I believe the prosecution showed only later photos with the clothing neatly placed together, so this question may not be answered at the trial. As no forensic examination of the alleged murder weapon was done, it is fair to assume that the clothing was not carefully examined either.

The released CCTV and photos from the crime scene circulating in the web indicate a mismatch (Hannah´s sandals and Davids trouser). Since the guest house was close and I assume they had their keys with them, it might also be possible the culprits took fresh clothes from there and planted it at the crimescene (underwear, sandals, Davids trouser).

I think if the clothes were washed in the sea they should be wet in the crime scene fotos, which they don´t look for me...

I have my problems with Davids shirt though, i could imagine him having two similar trousers, but twice the same shirt? But than, he came from the beach bar, it was warm... he maybe had just taken it off for his walk home. (as we have seen from the running man video others we´re also moving around topless this night)...

[fireplay]

Sean said David had returned to the guesthouse but then gone out for some cigarettes.

Sean never saw David that night. If you know different, this is huge new evidence: contact the defense team. Also, as David was a non smoker, it is unclear who he would buy cigarettes for.

Reports that are credible have the Ware brothers he was rooming with saying David left to look for Hannah. CCTV subsequently sees him enter AC Bar some time after Hannah.

Hey ho i remember david being a smoker..it was hanna who didn't smoke. There was the last picture of them at the table...@stealthenergizer you have that one?

this one ?

david1.jpg

No that works too though...i was thinking of them at the table...with tom and emma last pic ever...but this one is clearly showing a butt in hand. Thanks!

[lucaswallachia]

If you do a search "Koh Tao policeman challenged over killings " they speak about how the clothes were found piled neatly nearby.

cl1.jpg

I assume the picture on the right is how they were found first. Theres David's shorts and Hannahs panties in the foreground and David's tshirt in the middle and his show, though i wonder what the white thing is to the upper right.

[lucaswallachia]

Well the question remains, why was David naked? There is no blood on his clothes so he must of been naked before he was killed.

Almost naked (still wearing one sock) with his clothes strewn around according to initial photos. This is, indeed, a great question. One possibility is that the perpetrators removed his clothes and washed them in the sea to remove their blood. At the trial, I believe the prosecution showed only later photos with the clothing neatly placed together, so this question may not be answered at the trial. As no forensic examination of the alleged murder weapon was done, it is fair to assume that the clothing was not carefully examined either.

The released CCTV and photos from the crime scene circulating in the web indicate a mismatch (Hannah´s sandals and Davids trouser). Since the guest house was close and I assume they had their keys with them, it might also be possible the culprits took fresh clothes from there and planted it at the crimescene (underwear, sandals, Davids trouser).

I think if the clothes were washed in the sea they should be wet in the crime scene fotos, which they don´t look for me...

I have my problems with Davids shirt though, i could imagine him having two similar trousers, but twice the same shirt? But than, he came from the beach bar, it was warm... he maybe had just taken it off for his walk home. (as we have seen from the running man video others we´re also moving around topless this night)...

David was sharing the same room with his friend, so i dont think anbody could of entered his room with his friend noticing.

[Nigeone]

If you do a search "Koh Tao policeman challenged over killings " they speak about how the clothes were found piled neatly nearby.

cl1.jpg

I assume the picture on the right is how they were found first. Theres David's shorts and Hannahs panties in the foreground and David's tshirt in the middle and his show, though i wonder what the white thing is to the upper right.

No this picture I think was for the benefit of the press.. The RTP had shown a picture of the crime scene with the clothes neatly piled on top of each other. But previously someone had posted on Facebook the actual crime scene with the clothes scattered all over the place

[thailandchilli]

If you do a search "Koh Tao policeman challenged over killings " they speak about how the clothes were found piled neatly nearby.

cl1.jpg

I assume the picture on the right is how they were found first. Theres David's shorts and Hannahs panties in the foreground and David's tshirt in the middle and his show, though i wonder what the white thing is to the upper right.

I distinct absence of the phone that was found at the crime scene in that pic, it was reported in court the rtp found one there but they would not confirm who it belonged to

[lucaswallachia]

If you do a search "Koh Tao policeman challenged over killings " they speak about how the clothes were found piled neatly nearby.

cl1.jpg

I assume the picture on the right is how they were found first. Theres David's shorts and Hannahs panties in the foreground and David's tshirt in the middle and his show, though i wonder what the white thing is to the upper right.

I distinct absence of the phone that was found at the crime scene in that pic, it was reported in court the rtp found one there but they would not confirm who it belonged to

I was wondering if the thing on the right, above David's shoes is a phone?

[StealthEnergiser]

If you do a search "Koh Tao policeman challenged over killings " they speak about how the clothes were found piled neatly nearby.

cl1.jpg

I assume the picture on the right is how they were found first. Theres David's shorts and Hannahs panties in the foreground and David's tshirt in the middle and his show, though i wonder what the white thing is to the upper right.

No this picture I think was for the benefit of the press.. The RTP had shown a picture of the crime scene with the clothes neatly piled on top of each other. But previously someone had posted on Facebook the actual crime scene with the clothes scattered all over the place

Thats not what they said in the bangkok post article the said the clothes were found piled neatly nearby

[StealthEnergiser]

The doctor that attended the scene Chasit Yoohat has a Facebook on his timeline oct 22 2014 there is a picture of a ladies white panties not sure what he is talking about or if it's related .

[Nigeone]

If you do a search "Koh Tao policeman challenged over killings " they speak about how the clothes were found piled neatly nearby.

cl1.jpg

I assume the picture on the right is how they were found first. Theres David's shorts and Hannahs panties in the foreground and David's tshirt in the middle and his show, though i wonder what the white thing is to the upper right.

No this picture I think was for the benefit of the press.. The RTP had shown a picture of the crime scene with the clothes neatly piled on top of each other. But previously someone had posted on Facebook the actual crime scene with the clothes scattered all over the place

Thats not what they said in the bangkok post article the said the clothes were found piled neatly

nearby

Sorry not sure if we are getting mixed up. I definatly have seen a picture on here at the crime scene of the clothes on a rock on top of each other neatly. A police picture I think. Then there's the pictures as shown above scattered . It was when we were discussing the crime scene being compromised etc and items moved and not recorded and DNA possibly tainted. And the picture above of the clothes laid out were I think I remember for the benefit of the press at a later date and not at the crime scene

[BritTim]

If you do a search "Koh Tao policeman challenged over killings " they speak about how the clothes were found piled neatly nearby.

cl1.jpg

I assume the picture on the right is how they were found first. Theres David's shorts and Hannahs panties in the foreground and David's tshirt in the middle and his show, though i wonder what the white thing is to the upper right.

No this picture I think was for the benefit of the press.. The RTP had shown a picture of the crime scene with the clothes neatly piled on top of each other. But previously someone had posted on Facebook the actual crime scene with the clothes scattered all over the place

Thats not what they said in the bangkok post article the said the clothes were found piled neatly nearby

Indeed! Also, reports stated that only limited photos of the crime scene were available because of budget limitations. <sarcasm alert>No doubt the lack of initial photos and faulty memory on the part of those present explains the discrepancy.</sarcasm alert>

[frank83628]

Seems that Tom Wood needs to be in court then to give this information first hand. 'Hannah and David went their separate ways' reads to me like Hannah and David separated but it sounds like he means they left the bar together. So Tom Wood could tell the court what bar they were in, approximate time they left and why he assumed they went to the beach. He might also be able to tell the court if he witnessed any altercation that evening/morning. This information coming from a man who only met Hannah and David that night? If that's the case then the victims friends should hopefully be able to fill in many more details about when they left, whether they were together when they left, whether there was an argument of any sort and if they did actually leave by the back door. Maybe Tom's statement will be read in court by the defence and shed some light.

I very much doubt the defense would bring that up since it supports the narrative from the prosecution, at least in terms of there not being a fight at the bar before the murders.

"Meanwhile, during the hearing yesterday afternoon Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha said he and other officers had not investigated rumours that Miss Witheridge had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death.

The officer said he was aware of rumours that the university graduate had an altercation inside the AC Bar while there with friends.

But he said neither he, nor his officers, actively followed up that line of inquiry. The senior investigating officer insisted there was no evidence to suggest she was followed from the bar."

That, I presume, came up during cross examination of the witness by the defense, so it stands to reason that it is a line of attack the defense has used (or at least tried) to cast doubt on the investigation.

So The senior investigating officer insisted there was no evidence to suggest she was followed from the bar. This might actually be true.

But what about the possibility the person she had an altercation with, together with some buddies, left the bar earlier?

what about the possibility this gang headed to the ocean view, weaponizing themself with let´s say a garden hoe and a hammer from the ocean view yard?

What about the possibilty of them knowing the best spot for an ambush between AC-BAR and ocean view, waiting their some 30 meters away, smoke a cigarette while waiting and charge on Hannah and David, who were simply returning to their accomomodation?

Well the question remains, why was David naked? There is no blood on his clothes so he must of been naked before he was killed.

i think it fairly safe to assume they went there to have sex, hence being naked or even skinny dipping but i would assume the former... whether they were followed and attacked out of jealousy, or discovered and attacked out of lust, or spurned some unwanted advances is unknown…my first thought on seeing the scene was that it might have been out of disrespect, it was the king rama rock after all.