How to deal with our pesky rural neighbours

[Genmai]

Hi everybody,

I'm new here and I would like some help with an issue I've been having.

Earlier this year me and my girlfriend (Thai) started renting a small plot of land with a house in rural Chiang Mai for the purposes of gardening and having a studio where we can do our work. The place has been unoccupied for the last several years and so the landlord has been paying one of the neighbours (a local rice farmer) to take care of the fruit trees, cut the grass, etc. Since we started renting he (the farmer) has continued to come around and take care of things which is nice because occasionally we have to fly to Bangkok or overseas for our work and he keeps the place in order. He knows all there is to know about the plants on this property since his best buddy used to live on the same plot of land and many years ago they planted it up together. The problem is that because we are not there all the time (we live in my girlfriend's parents' house 15 minutes drive away and only come to this place to work) we can't keep an eye on what's going on. Nearly every time we come things look out of place: doors that were shut are open, tools get moved, rubbish shows up all over the place and fruit is picked. We can understand that sometimes he wants to park his farming equipment here or harvest ripening fruit but there have been times when we pull up in the driveway to find the gate open and a bunch of random people walking around, picking leaves, using our water and parking their bikes in front of the house. They smile sheepishly, say that they are his farm workers/family and quietly slip out. This happened again two days ago.

We are new here, fresh from Bangkok, never lived with rural farmers before and so we are trying our best to be understanding, patient and non-confrontational. But I really do think I'm about to lose my shit. Last month when we came back after being away for a few weeks we found the entire yard had been planted with cantaloupes. Literally every usable patch of soil. Apparently he had asked the landlords since we were away and they gave the OK. I was going to tear them all out but a close family friend advised us against it. The farmer has agreed to clean everything up once the harvest is finished. So now I would very much like to start planting out our garden but instead am stuck like an idiot waiting for all these bloody cantaloupes to mature. Apparently they are "45 day" cantaloupes. I have no idea what the hell that means. It's coming up to 45 days since planting and they don't look like they're going anywhere.

It's a complicated issue because he and his family have lived next door for many years and have obviously regarded this plot as their own seeing as how nobody has been living here. And he has been getting money from the landlord for coming in and doing maintenance. The maintenance is nothing that we couldn't do ourselves but we don't want to stir up anything bad with our neighbours by having his services terminated. So we've told him that because of all these problems we want nobody else but him entering and we are changing the locks on the gate and him and us will be the only people who have the key. He has understood this. What I want to know is how to handle the situation if we arrive one day again to find random people walking around our place. Should I keep social order and kindly ask them to leave? Should I start yelling and kick them out? Can I get physically confrontational? I don't have good "people skills" and I'm worried that any violence on my part could spark revenge and compromise my girlfriend's safety. Should we involve the landlords in this?

I don't want any cantaloupes or people on my land. I just want to be left alone to do my work while still managing to keep a somewhat reasonable relationship with the people next door.

[Broken Record]

You want to get physical, you'd be leaving the area within the day, that's if you were not hospitalized, ask your GF to explain that Farangs are different and they will probably understand.

Forget the macho act.

[Briggsy]

The Chinese came. The Chinese conquered. Build an 8-foot wall like the Chinese and never leave the house unoccupied for more than 5 minutes.

[samsensam]

i come from a small rural village. if some city types from london with no connection or experience of the countryside turned up buying land that had been used by locals, legally or not, for several years then i, and the rest of the village would expect these city types to tread carefully. and i'm from the UK. i'd think thais would be even more sensitive. good luck.

[mcfish]

How long is your lease?

[Genmai]

How long is your lease?

The landlords are close friends of the family so there is no contract or paperwork of any sort.

[willyumiii]

Given your western attitude and your lack of social skills you are in for a very rude awakening.

I could write volumes, but.in short,

this is rural Thailand, and if you can not accept the communal, "what your's is mine' rural culture here,

you need to pull out and live in town.

With your attitude, you could get hurt, or even disappear.

The police could care less.

You will not win.

Cut your losses now and write it off to a lesson in Thai culture.

Be happy you are only renting and did not buy the land ( in your partner's name )

Choke Dee....( good luck )

[Crazy chef 1]

Learn to live with it or leave...no other choices...

[mcfish]

Best cantaloupe 100 recipe

https://www.pinterest.com/recipes/cantaloupe-100/

[naboo]

45 day cantaloupes are cantaloupes that take 45 days to ripen from flowering. You may have a while to wait yet!

[SoiBiker]

This 'work' you mention several times. What does it consist of?

[naboo]

This 'work' you mention several times. What does it consist of?

I very much doubt this is any of your business.

[SoiBiker]

This 'work' you mention several times. What does it consist of?

I very much doubt this is any of your business.

Perhaps not. But the nature of it is somewhat relevant to the question of how advisable it is for the OP to make a fuss about the situation.

[Genmai]

This 'work' you mention several times. What does it consist of?

I very much doubt this is any of your business.

Perhaps not. But the nature of it is somewhat relevant to the question of how advisable it is for the OP to make a fuss about the situation.

A relevant question as some might be wondering whether my work could have a potential to bother the neighbours somehow or cause an inconvenience of some sort. This is not the case as my work is artistic in nature. There is no noise, no smell, no runoff or anything of that sort.

[SoiBiker]

This 'work' you mention several times. What does it consist of?

I very much doubt this is any of your business.

Perhaps not. But the nature of it is somewhat relevant to the question of how advisable it is for the OP to make a fuss about the situation.

A relevant question as some might be wondering whether my work could have a potential to bother the neighbours somehow or cause an inconvenience of some sort. This is not the case as my work is artistic in nature. There is no noise, no smell, no runoff or anything of that sort.

That wasn't really the point I was getting at. What's more relevant is the legality of this 'work'. Unless you're fully above board with a work permit etc, you might be best advised to not rock the boat. It only takes one disgruntled neighbour to drop you into a world of shit.

[Genmai]

This 'work' you mention several times. What does it consist of?

I very much doubt this is any of your business.

Perhaps not. But the nature of it is somewhat relevant to the question of how advisable it is for the OP to make a fuss about the situation.

A relevant question as some might be wondering whether my work could have a potential to bother the neighbours somehow or cause an inconvenience of some sort. This is not the case as my work is artistic in nature. There is no noise, no smell, no runoff or anything of that sort.

That wasn't really the point I was getting at. What's more relevant is the legality of this 'work'. Unless you're fully above board with a work permit etc, you might be best advised to not rock the boat. It only takes one disgruntled neighbour to drop you into a world of shit.

Ah, I see what you mean. Everything is fully above board in terms of legalities.

[Genmai]

Thank you all for your patience and your words of advice. I realise I have problems with people and I am doing my best to tread lightly in this situation. Without going into too much detail I can say that I can emulate most normal behaviours but it only works if I know what the appropriate patterns are. So far I've been polite, friendly and smiling with the people I find coming onto the land.

But it seems the general consensus is that as an outsider there is nothing I can do to stop people whom I don't know from coming onto the land and into the house that I am renting. If this is the case then I need to start looking for alternatives.

The reason we moved out here is so that we can be left alone to work quietly, not make any noise or bother anybody and grow our own food. I've had success doing this for several years in both rural New Zealand and Japan where people tend to respect personal boundaries and one could easily spend weeks without talking to another human.

What are the options for people who want to have that kind of existence in rural Thailand? To be left alone, undisturbed in the sticks?

[bangmai]

Tell the landlord it is you or them. Probably 10,000 other places in CM Province alone that would be what you describe. You didn't do your diligence before moving in.

[taotoo]

The reason we moved out here is so that we can be left alone to work quietly, not make any noise or bother anybody and grow our own food.

What are the options for people who want to have that kind of existence in rural Thailand? To be left alone, undisturbed in the sticks?

Personally I don't think you will achieve that without spending lots of time learning to accommodate the locals and they you.

[worgeordie]

I have a friend in Sri Lanka, he built a house there,the wall was 6 ft high,

next time I went to visit him the wall was 9 ft high,he said because the niebours

were looking over the wall, the last time i went the wall is 12 ft high !,

No one is an island you have to get on with the people around you,especially

here and been a Farang,

regards worgeordie

[bangmai]

Here is 640 acres (1 square mile) for <2.75 million THB or 76,900 USD. http://www.landwatch.com/Pershing-County-Nevada-Land-for-sale/pid/318082180

[gobs]

"... So we've told him that because of all these problems we want nobody else but him entering and we are changing the locks on the gate and him and us will be the only people who have the key. He has understood this..."

I think you did the right thing and it's a good start...

There is nothing wrong with that if you did it gently, and as for now everybody in the neighbourhood knows "how you work".

Just be patient and still smile around, as if nothing happened: I suppose you'll see an improvement in the near future.

As well, a next time, while smiling and chating, tell the man/gardener you'ld like to get your own piece of garden, letting him to go on his own business on the left piece. Just let him get (a litlle bit) more than half the land, and everything ought to be ok...

Again, be patient and smile and wai when needed around: after all, 45 days are only 1 month and a half...

If no improvement then, it'll be time to consider another option for you.

Everything is a bit slow and sloppy here. And we, as foreigners, have just to do with it. But once we can manage this behaviour/life style, everything becomes more relax...

Confrontation leads nowhere good.

Good luck!

[daveAustin]

Move

[steven100]

pack up and move to another plot .... this time make sure there are no neighbors within coooew !!

[cooked]

Don't move. Don't forget that the guy was there before you came and will be there when you're gone. When I moved here I was told that the son in law looked after the hedge, trees and grass. After watching the butchery involved ( branches ripped off, nearly all leaves and flowers gone, grass cutting involving destruction of flowering plants, I very subtly started to maintain it myself (my profession). He does occasionally let his cows graze in the driveway, he doesn't ask and I don't mind. My other initiative was to plant Papaya so that he can't put his cows on our 'lawn' (green bit) as they would destroy the young trees. I still help him out now and then and I am very happy that we have good relations as he helps me a lot. Question: what did you want to do with the ground that is now planted with melons? At least it is being kept weed free.

We also had a neighbour problem and put in 50 fence posts in two days and I am building a wall at the rate of 3 to 5 metres a month.

I did have a shouting match with this guy when he destroyed the first fence post (meant as a marker of things to come), he did this during the short time I had driven off as I do every afternoon. I was mob handed but I wouldn't do that again, big mistake. I now realise that the guys with me were there to stop me getting physical.

Just stay cool and friendly, there's always a solution.

[cloudhopper]

Good fences make for good neighbors - old proverb.

[canuckamuck]

Any place here where there is not a person present to represent the property will be invaded and used for other purposes. You have two problems. Someone not in your employ has unlimited access to the property. And you do not have anyone there looking after your own interests.

The best thing you could do for the situation would be to move in. Or to hire someone to live on the property (also problematic).

If this is unworkable, keep your cool and make your presence known in an obvious but friendly way. The infiltrations will subside. What also might help is if you did some landscaping of your own. Take away what was communal and replace it with your stuff. Territorial markers should help a bit.

It will never be perfect, but keep up a good attitude and don't leave anything you value in a place where it can be abused or stolen. And you may learn to coexist.

[Bill97]

Sort it with your landlord, after that does not work, move.

[Puwa]

Like it or not, you are living in miniature a huge social and economic trend: city folk moving into rural areas with different ways and rules. The main source of tension is land use. Everyone is aware of this tension, but often no one knows what to do. So it's up to you to play the part of hero or villain.

Here's a Thai way to handle it. Invite the landlord round on some pretext, and while he's there, seeing the state of the place with his own eyes, mention that you're worried that the neighbor's cantaloupe might get damaged, planted as they are all over the yard. And since you feel sorry for the neighbor, and wouldn't want to see him suffer (a standard line for the higher up in any hierarchical negotiation), perhaps the landlord can talk to him about it, so that in the future he might plant elsewhere. GF should have a pretty good handle on these dynamics.

Final thought, if the GF's parents are local, strategically position one of them to chat with the neighbor in local dialect. Speaking kam muang makes a huge difference in perception, reducing your "otherness," and making it easier to reach an understanding. But if they are also Bkk transplants, they can't help much.

Good luck!

[NancyL]

From the OP's post, I can't see where the neighbor's have actually done anything harmful. Yes, they planted melons in a space where he intended to plant a garden, but they didn't actually disturb an on-going garden. Seems like they're keeping the property neat and productive.

It's not like when we lived in a townhouse (a converted shophouse) on a soi with Thai neighbors. When we'd leave on holiday, we'd ask the Thai lady across the street to look after our plants. We knew, however, that the "price" was that she'd help herself to "starts" of them in our absence -- thinning them, taking cuttings, pruning etc. We'd return home to find our property relandscaped and everyone on the soi enjoying new plants.