How to deal with our pesky rural neighbours

[nemrut]

"Should I start yelling and kick them out? Can I get physically confrontational? I don't have good "people skills" and I'm worried that any violence on my part could spark revenge and compromise my girlfriend's safety. Should we involve the landlords in this?

I don't want any cantaloupes or people on my land."

Guessing you're from either US/UK/AUS by your confrontational tone and entitled attitude. Yelling or geting 'physically confrontational' will certainly teach you some lessons you don't want to learn.

You don't sound like you're able to cope with the situation in an intelligent and civilized manner without creating a lot of drama--and harm to yourself. Best course of action is to move on and hopefully learn from your mistakes in entering this arrangement without paperwork nor understanding of Thai culture.

[willyumiii]

Maybe it would help if you try to see it from their perspective.

You are a strange looking guy, from somewhere far a way.

You have strange ideas and a strange attitude that they can't take seriously.

They are probably some what amused with you.

You are renting, you do not own the place.

You are paying someone money, to sometimes stay in a building on a piece of land that they have been using for free...forever.

This makes it even more difficult for them to take you seriously.

They are pretty confident that sooner or later, you will go away and they will still be there doing the same things they have always done there.

They are correct.

If your GF is Thai and you plan on staying in Thailand long term,

Land is pretty inexpensive here in the north and you could buy some , in your GF's name, not your's...

Build a house, with a good wall, and try to get along with your neighbors.

[Johpa]

Great answer! And in case the hint was too subtle, be sure to help yourself to those cantaloupes, masses of them, invite your friends to come load their trucks, because they're on the land you're renting legally.

Traditionally in Thailand, at least when it comes to rice fields, one hands over half the padi harvest to the land owner in exchange for using the land. Other types of land usually come with an outright rental agreement: I will pay so much to use your land to plant a crop. And although you are also a renter, you have the right to demand a token amount from the man who planted the melons on the land now under your rental control. The best course of action is to go to the village headman or the kamnaan (tambon head)and ask for mediation in exchange for not plowing up the melon field. But don't ask for an arm and a leg from a poor rural farmer and don't plow up the field in spite. Ask for a thousand baat and although you may not get the money this time, the local will be reluctant to plant again at risk that you will remove his crop.

The key is to develop a relationship with the local headman to act as your puu yai. And it doesn't hurt to make some donations to the local wat or host a house warming party and invite the local villagers as well. In less then three months will be Loi Kratong. That is your opportunity to show up with a money tree loaded with Royals to hand over to the local temple and earn some brownie points (merit) not only with the monks, but with the local villagers was well. Besides, spending Loi Kratong at a local village ceremony is a vastly superior experience than the dog and pony shows in the city.

If your girlfriend has become so far removed from traditional rural Thai culture that she does not understand what I am talking about here then go track down a copy of Everyday life in Thailand: An Interpretation by Niels Mulder.

[cooked]

I once looked after a vegetable garden for an old lady that could no longer do it herself. I took half. Her son turned up one day (his yearly visit) and he became abusive. Next time I drove past that garden the weeds were a metre high.

[chrisandsu]

You are right , you do need lessons in people skills . If I was neighbours with some of you guys you would surely end up getting a dig before long !! Stop being so up tight about small things , don't try and invent the wheel in your village , learn how things work and play the game without having the pist taken out of you . Simple

[garyinhuahin]

Tell the landlord it is you or them. Probably 10,000 other places in CM Province alone that would be what you describe. You didn't do your diligence before moving in.

I definitely wouldn't recommend that. If they've been using this land for a number of years, they may very well have more rights to it than he does. Thai property law is not the same as Western

You are talking about "squatter's rights," and they are addressed in the East and West. My brother loves to hunt. They were always looking for new places to obtain the required written permission to hunt. Inevitably, someone would leave garbage, bring other friends, or blatantly violate Fish and Game regulations. Then, everyone would lose their privileges. After about five iterations of this, he shelled out 8 million THB and bought 320 rai. It took him about a year to get things sorted, but he was amazed at how many people assumed they had a right to walk his property with a 30 x 30 and hunt deer, at their leisure. He would approach people and tell them he was the new owner, and the response was "well, we've been hunting here for years," or "Mr. Johnson always let us hunt here." It's just part of the renter/trailer park mentality to disrespect property rights. He took a few photos of their vehicles, gave them notice that they had been recorded, and put up a few signs....no problems in 10 years. At times, you got to be the "bad guy," but that's the way it is. And the give an inch saying is still alive and well.

Sometimes a simple reminder of what their new neighbors will look like gets them in line. But, you won't have that option, as a renter.newneighbors.jpg

My understanding is that in Thai law, if people have been making use of land for several years and the owner has not objected, then their rights of use do become legally entrenched.

[Stevemercer]

If what you really want is solitude, to do your own thing, then I think you have to look at another rental property. Check it out first to make sure it has been maintained by the owner and no on else.

If you want to spend time building community relations, and can tolerate other people on your land under agreed terms, then you could invest the time on the current property. But I think you just want the land without the hassles (and there is nothing wrong with this). I agree with other posters that your Thai girlfriend is the key here. She should be the 'frontman' in addressing your interests with the neighours.

I have 5 rai on which I want to do my own thing. Our circumstances are different (e.g. my wife owns the land), but there was one intrusive neighbour. My Thai wife sorted him out and he keeps a very low profile these days. The other neighbour we deliberately cultivated by giving him occasional paid work. That way he is supportive in any land disputes and keeps an eye on the property without intruding.

[DLock]

That guy planting the cantaloupe...is the Landlord.

[realthaideal]

Am I the only one who thought this guy's post was actually well thought out and showed that he's shown restraint and was simply seeking (wisely) best advice on how to go forward/ what to expect? To me he sounded like someone who gets that he doesn't necessarily get everything about the Thais nor the rural Thais and just wanted advice. OP, I think it's great that you're asking..

As far as using it as a work house - hello? Doesn't anybody have an office or reading nook they like to go to to be productive with book or with laptop? A country house sounds like an ideal place to do that. I'm embarrassed for the locals already trumpeting out visa this and work permit that.... The guy doesn't sound that unaware and.... that "advice" is such an old saw.....

What's going to work ultimately is going to be tightening your relationship with the groundskeeper and also restating your desires probably 100 times for it to begin to stick. Also, there's going to be some compromise or bonding that will involve him benefiting from you - that may be in the form of produce, a little extra cash, something..... but there will need to be a negotiation for him to see it more your way and not as same old same old. Buy in will take some sort of gifting showing you understand you're taking away from him essentially and you want to give back in another way. I've seen some other good advice from a few others too. This situation isn't unworkable and repeats itself in various forms throughout the country, so best to get on board with it.

Good luck.

[Puwa]

Am I the only one who thought this guy's post was actually well thought out and showed that he's shown restraint and was simply seeking (wisely) best advice on how to go forward/ what to expect? To me he sounded like someone who gets that he doesn't necessarily get everything about the Thais nor the rural Thais and just wanted advice. OP, I think it's great that you're asking..

As far as using it as a work house - hello? Doesn't anybody have an office or reading nook they like to go to to be productive with book or with laptop? A country house sounds like an ideal place to do that. I'm embarrassed for the locals already trumpeting out visa this and work permit that.... The guy doesn't sound that unaware and.... that "advice" is such an old saw.....

What's going to work ultimately is going to be tightening your relationship with the groundskeeper and also restating your desires probably 100 times for it to begin to stick. Also, there's going to be some compromise or bonding that will involve him benefiting from you - that may be in the form of produce, a little extra cash, something..... but there will need to be a negotiation for him to see it more your way and not as same old same old. Buy in will take some sort of gifting showing you understand you're taking away from him essentially and you want to give back in another way. I've seen some other good advice from a few others too. This situation isn't unworkable and repeats itself in various forms throughout the country, so best to get on board with it.

Good luck.

How dare you be so reasonable!

[TooPoopedToPop]

Am I the only one who thought this guy's post was actually well thought out and showed that he's shown restraint and was simply seeking (wisely) best advice on how to go forward/ what to expect? To me he sounded like someone who gets that he doesn't necessarily get everything about the Thais nor the rural Thais and just wanted advice. OP, I think it's great that you're asking..

As far as using it as a work house - hello? Doesn't anybody have an office or reading nook they like to go to to be productive with book or with laptop? A country house sounds like an ideal place to do that. I'm embarrassed for the locals already trumpeting out visa this and work permit that.... The guy doesn't sound that unaware and.... that "advice" is such an old saw.....

What's going to work ultimately is going to be tightening your relationship with the groundskeeper and also restating your desires probably 100 times for it to begin to stick. Also, there's going to be some compromise or bonding that will involve him benefiting from you - that may be in the form of produce, a little extra cash, something..... but there will need to be a negotiation for him to see it more your way and not as same old same old. Buy in will take some sort of gifting showing you understand you're taking away from him essentially and you want to give back in another way. I've seen some other good advice from a few others too. This situation isn't unworkable and repeats itself in various forms throughout the country, so best to get on board with it.

Good luck.

How dare you be so reasonable!

It's the fruit of experience.

He's been here for a long time.

[moe666]

The Op hasn't replied in a while I guess he worked things out. Since he isn't there all of the time and goes away for a few weeks at a time who will takecare of his garden if he runs off the neighbor

[goreme]

Am I the only one who thought this guy's post was actually well thought out and showed that he's shown restraint and was simply seeking (wisely) best advice on how to go forward/ what to expect? To me he sounded like someone who gets that he doesn't necessarily get everything about the Thais nor the rural Thais and just wanted advice. OP, I think it's great that you're asking..

As far as using it as a work house - hello? Doesn't anybody have an office or reading nook they like to go to to be productive with book or with laptop? A country house sounds like an ideal place to do that. I'm embarrassed for the locals already trumpeting out visa this and work permit that.... The guy doesn't sound that unaware and.... that "advice" is such an old saw.....

What's going to work ultimately is going to be tightening your relationship with the groundskeeper and also restating your desires probably 100 times for it to begin to stick. Also, there's going to be some compromise or bonding that will involve him benefiting from you - that may be in the form of produce, a little extra cash, something..... but there will need to be a negotiation for him to see it more your way and not as same old same old. Buy in will take some sort of gifting showing you understand you're taking away from him essentially and you want to give back in another way. I've seen some other good advice from a few others too. This situation isn't unworkable and repeats itself in various forms throughout the country, so best to get on board with it.

Good luck.

Anyone asking for advice from strangers on a public forum about whether or not it's ok to get violent with their neighbors on rented property and in a foreign land doesn't sound wise nor restrained. The op comes across as looking for an excuse to start an altercation and came TV to get permission that it was ok.

Your blase response really exemplifies the cultural chasm between the confrontational, conflict-prone behavior of the west vs the more indirect, conflict-avoidance of the east. Perhaps the latter is one of the reasons so many farang choose to live in Thailand yet often forget or refuse to adapt their behavior accordingly.

[CMKiwi]

Well said. Sometimes it's hard to remember that and even harder not to explode when we percieve others are trying to annoy you. Miscommunication leads to a lot of misunderstandings and thereby fights and even wars.

Quiet non confrontational dialect can be/should be the first step.

Once all avenues have been tried then we as Westerners generally take physical action. It's hard to overcome that in this land. But we can only but try.

[SoiBiker]

Once all avenues have been tried then we as Westerners generally take physical action. It's hard to overcome that in this land. But we can only but try.

You might be quick to use your fists when stressed, but don't tar all western men with the same brush. Plenty of us wouldn't dream of resorting to violence.

[mcfish]

Well said. Sometimes it's hard to remember that and even harder not to explode when we percieve others are trying to annoy you. Miscommunication leads to a lot of misunderstandings and thereby fights and even wars.

Quiet non confrontational dialect can be/should be the first step.

Once all avenues have been tried then we as Westerners generally take physical action. It's hard to overcome that in this land. But we can only but try.

<deleted>, are you drunk?

[CMKiwi]

I did say generally......and that doesn't necessarily mean violence. Drunk? No but I'm working on it.....

[CMKiwi]

Taking physical action isn't always violence. In the OPs situation some people may rip out the plants if they annoy them that much. It's just been my observation that a lot of Westerners tend to act when all other avenues have been exhausted.