Safeguarding a Rental Deposit

[Harry2]

I would really appreciate anybody's experience in this, I have read recent relevant threads.

I have rented a furnished Bangkok condo for B20,000 a month for 8 years with 2 months deposit.

The condo is in excellent condition but I have grown uneasy about the owners attitude since we had a dispute about mattress replacement.

I am concerned they will basically pocket the deposit at the end for spurious 'damages'. How can I protect against this?

Should I get a lawyer involved before I sign a new lease, anyone done this?

[blackcab]

In my opinion I don't think you can do anything to protect yourself. All you can do is attempt to get the money back after the event.

The other option is to not pay the rent for the last two months.

[NOC]

It's customary to not pay rent for the last two months. If he's a prick, change the locks on the apartment to ones that look exactly the same. This way he can't enter without breaking the door or spending money.

Be nice. There was a guy that got jammed up by the owner falsely reporting that he stole furniture.

If he tries to cheat you tell him you are going to report him to the tax authorities. Most don't pay taxes on their rental income. If he hasn't paid taxes, the tax man will back date the bill to the date he bought the property. He could be in for a big bill. Make sure you move out first and document the exchange back to him.

[PattayaPhom]

Why did the matrtess need replacing, did you damage it?

[worgeordie]

It's customary to not pay rent for the last two months. If he's a prick, change the locks on the apartment to ones that look exactly the same. This way he can't enter without breaking the door or spending money.

Be nice. There was a guy that got jammed up by the owner falsely reporting that he stole furniture.

If he tries to cheat you tell him you are going to report him to the tax authorities. Most don't pay taxes on their rental income. If he hasn't paid taxes, the tax man will back date the bill to the date he bought the property. He could be in for a big bill. Make sure you move out first and document the exchange back to him.

The security deposit,does not just cover any damage done to

the property,BUT also helps to cover any unpaid utility charges,

like water,electric,service charges,and it should also say in the

contract that the security deposit is not in anyway connected to

the monthly rent payment.

The problem is, there are bad landlords,who will not expect any

normal wear and tear ,even after a few years,and will think up

anything to retain the tenants deposit.

regards Worgeordie

[dutchweller]

It's customary to not pay rent for the last two months. If he's a prick, change the locks on the apartment to ones that look exactly the same. This way he can't enter without breaking the door or spending money.

Be nice. There was a guy that got jammed up by the owner falsely reporting that he stole furniture.

If he tries to cheat you tell him you are going to report him to the tax authorities. Most don't pay taxes on their rental income. If he hasn't paid taxes, the tax man will back date the bill to the date he bought the property. He could be in for a big bill. Make sure you move out first and document the exchange back to him.

This guy is correct

Most Thai owner will think of a way to withold deposits..

Just tell him you will report to Tax office it usually get a reponse that you are looking for.

Worked for us

or we just did not pay rent for the period covering deposit.

Document everything when you depart including all the items includeded in the property get a witness to couter sign that it is all there and is in good order..

[machesta]

Last year I got screwed by a Landlord in The Valley in Kathu, to the tune of about 20,000bat. He looked everywhere to backcharge me. He even looked in the toilet tanks to see if their was any parts he could charge me for. I spackled and painted 4 holes in the wall and repainted. He even charged me for new paint cause I used a different brand of paint. I was afraid to complain and attract too much attention to myself.

This year I ran into a landlord who tried the same crap. This time I said I was going to report her to the Tax authorities, and they own 30 houses they rent out. She called me immediately, and we came to a good resolution.

In my new lease, I have documented everything, but renters always get screwed for something. It is true that we are responsible for unpaid utility bills and any damage, but the Taxing Authority threat is a great one.

You know where we are, Farangs have be very cautious.

[scorecard]

In my opinion I don't think you can do anything to protect yourself. All you can do is attempt to get the money back after the event.

The other option is to not pay the rent for the last two months.

But keep in mind that this is probably breaking the lease conditions and could generate a situation where the landlord suddenly installs new locks / additional locks and won't let you collect valuable, passport, documents etc., until you pay the rental moneys due (not deducted from deposits).

[Ulic]

Sounds like it is too late to protect yourself now. The time to negotiate your protection was

when you first rented. I have a what I think is a very good landlord but after reading all

the issues I offered to pay in 2 six month instalments for the years rent and no damage

deposit. I am in my second 1 year lease, all is good. I have no intention of stiffing the

landlord for electric or water or cleaning fee, and leave extras, (fans, cutlery, etc... behind)

[scorecard]

Last year I got screwed by a Landlord in The Valley in Kathu, to the tune of about 20,000bat. He looked everywhere to backcharge me. He even looked in the toilet tanks to see if their was any parts he could charge me for. I spackled and painted 4 holes in the wall and repainted. He even charged me for new paint cause I used a different brand of paint. I was afraid to complain and attract too much attention to myself.

This year I ran into a landlord who tried the same crap. This time I said I was going to report her to the Tax authorities, and they own 30 houses they rent out. She called me immediately, and we came to a good resolution.

In my new lease, I have documented everything, but renters always get screwed for something. It is true that we are responsible for unpaid utility bills and any damage, but the Taxing Authority threat is a great one.

You know where we are, Farangs have be very cautious.

Which means that before occupancy it's a good idea to take good quality photos of every wall, door, piece of furniture, floor, curtains, plumbing fittings, etc etc., and ask the landlord to sign and date the photos.

And tell the landlord in advance that you intend to do this. If the landlord refuses to agree to this approach then think again...

[swissie]

Renting for 8 years ? Is the 20'000 fixed for the duration or "adjustable" (inflation, interest rate level etc. ? Crucial point.

At any rate, after the 8 year rental is up, don't expect to see any of your deposit money coming back your way. Just write it off.

Cheers.

[Mr Wonderful]

I would really appreciate anybody's experience in this, I have read recent relevant threads.

I have rented a furnished Bangkok condo for B20,000 a month for 8 years with 2 months deposit.

The condo is in excellent condition but I have grown uneasy about the owners attitude since we had a dispute about mattress replacement.

I am concerned they will basically pocket the deposit at the end for spurious 'damages'. How can I protect against this?

Should I get a lawyer involved before I sign a new lease, anyone done this?

Any lease over three years is not valid unless endorsed by the local land office anyways. While this doesn't help you safeguard your deposit it just means you are not signing an enforceable contract without it being properly registered.

That said, I doubt the 20k will even come close to cover your final month utility payments and extraordinary wear and tear on the property. Besides, over eight years you are talking 200 baht per month. It's not really an issue, is it?

Edited September 12, 2015 by Mr Wonderful

[scorecard]

Last year I got screwed by a Landlord in The Valley in Kathu, to the tune of about 20,000bat. He looked everywhere to backcharge me. He even looked in the toilet tanks to see if their was any parts he could charge me for. I spackled and painted 4 holes in the wall and repainted. He even charged me for new paint cause I used a different brand of paint. I was afraid to complain and attract too much attention to myself.

This year I ran into a landlord who tried the same crap. This time I said I was going to report her to the Tax authorities, and they own 30 houses they rent out. She called me immediately, and we came to a good resolution.

In my new lease, I have documented everything, but renters always get screwed for something. It is true that we are responsible for unpaid utility bills and any damage, but the Taxing Authority threat is a great one.

You know where we are, Farangs have be very cautious.

Which means that before occupancy it's a good idea to take good quality photos of every wall, door, piece of furniture, floor, curtains, plumbing fittings, etc etc., and ask the landlord to sign and date the photos.

And tell the landlord in advance that you intend to do this. If the landlord refuses to agree to this approach then think again...

[NoshowJones]

Last year I got screwed by a Landlord in The Valley in Kathu, to the tune of about 20,000bat. He looked everywhere to backcharge me. He even looked in the toilet tanks to see if their was any parts he could charge me for. I spackled and painted 4 holes in the wall and repainted. He even charged me for new paint cause I used a different brand of paint. I was afraid to complain and attract too much attention to myself.

This year I ran into a landlord who tried the same crap. This time I said I was going to report her to the Tax authorities, and they own 30 houses they rent out. She called me immediately, and we came to a good resolution.

In my new lease, I have documented everything, but renters always get screwed for something. It is true that we are responsible for unpaid utility bills and any damage, but the Taxing Authority threat is a great one.

You know where we are, Farangs have be very cautious.

Be wary of threatening Thais with tax or anything else, some Thais are "connected", they could find their way to get information about you, where you live etc. Think about it.

[machesta]

Good point possum1931

[blackcab]

Renting for 8 years ? Is the 20'000 fixed for the duration or "adjustable" (inflation, interest rate level etc. ? Crucial point.

At any rate, after the 8 year rental is up, don't expect to see any of your deposit money coming back your way. Just write it off.

Cheers.

With our company the 20k would not be adjusted in any way. If you gave us 20k we would return 20k (less deductions, if any).

We hold a completely separate bank account which contains all tenant's deposits in full. It's not used for anything - it just sits there. We keep the interest from this account, but with current interest rates that is a small amount each month.

[asdecas]

There is no watertight protection to be had; you may build provisions into your initial contract all you like but if push comes to shove they may not count for anything.

The key to resolving any situation that may arise regarding due return of deposit mostly rests, in my opinion, with how you have conducted yourself in relation to your landlord in the past, and how you do so when the time comes. Always maintain a business-like approach, don't escalate problems, if necessary be flexible to a degree. Always bear in mind that it is possible your landlord will try to cheat you, no matter how unlikely that may seem at any given time, and act accordingly - and always with a smile.

Thai business culture (and I regard this as a business transaction) is very similar to Chinese - it rests on a bed of trust built up over time in relationships.

I would be very wary of issuing threats in any situation in Thailand unless I had a very solid escape plan - they could backfire badly.

[dotpoom]

It's customary to not pay rent for the last two months. If he's a prick, change the locks on the apartment to ones that look exactly the same. This way he can't enter without breaking the door or spending money.

Be nice. There was a guy that got jammed up by the owner falsely reporting that he stole furniture.

If he tries to cheat you tell him you are going to report him to the tax authorities. Most don't pay taxes on their rental income. If he hasn't paid taxes, the tax man will back date the bill to the date he bought the property. He could be in for a big bill. Make sure you move out first and document the exchange back to him.

The security deposit,does not just cover any damage done to

the property,BUT also helps to cover any unpaid utility charges,

like water,electric,service charges,and it should also say in the

contract that the security deposit is not in anyway connected to

the monthly rent payment.

The problem is, there are bad landlords,who will not expect any

normal wear and tear ,even after a few years,and will think up

anything to retain the tenants deposit.

regards Worgeordie

There are many many bad tenants too...I know from bitter experience.

[bazza40]

If possible, I'd suggest renting from a falang landlord who speaks the same language as you do.

I have been renting for 6 years now from the same landlord. No security deposit, he trusts me to look after the unit and pay my rent in time. I trust him to fix maintenance problems as they occur. No written contract, a gentleman's agreement. Probably rare in Thailand. Maybe I was just lucky.

[NOC]

If possible, I'd suggest renting from a falang landlord who speaks the same language as you do.

I have been renting for 6 years now from the same landlord. No security deposit, he trusts me to look after the unit and pay my rent in time. I trust him to fix maintenance problems as they occur. No written contract, a gentleman's agreement. Probably rare in Thailand. Maybe I was just lucky.

I'm in the same sitch. Family house. Cheap rent. Can do what I want to it, w/in reason. What people should look for!

[Nowisee]

Back in my youth, a LL wrongly ripped me off of my $600 security deposit. The amount he had to pay to replace the 2 sliding glass doors was more than enough to cover it...

I've also read the horror story threads about not getting back security deposits here. I'm going to hedge the bet I will, I'm renting from a large condo chain that seems to be interested in keeping on good business terms... then again... TIT and there seems to be little to get it back legally... back to the sliding glass doors???

Edited September 12, 2015 by Nowisee

[allane]

If you are leaving Thailand, don't tell him that. You are more likely to get at least some of your deposit back if he thinks you are remaining in the country.

[ggt]

You are correct in assuming you will have problems retrieving your rental deposit...once baht exchanges hands in Thailand...the overwhelming mentality is that it will not be given back...very common...very wrong...but then again...you are in Thailand...

If you force the issue...you will likely get verbal confirmation that you will get it tomorrow...but tomorrow will never come...

Good Luck!

[JHolmesJr]

Photograph every part of the apt with date stamp turned on.....burn to disc...one copy to landlord, keep one yourself.

Document all flaws, iimperfections and damage, no matter how superficial and have it mentioned and signed off in the inventory list.

You can also shoot video if necessary....but there must be proof of when u shot it.

Even if you dont use it later, it sends a clear message to landlord that you are not a tenant to be trifled with.

[Harry2]

Why did the matrtess need replacing, did you damage it?

No mattresses wear out and this was over 8 years old.

[Harry2]

I would really appreciate anybody's experience in this, I have read recent relevant threads.

I have rented a furnished Bangkok condo for B20,000 a month for 8 years with 2 months deposit.

The condo is in excellent condition but I have grown uneasy about the owners attitude since we had a dispute about mattress replacement.

I am concerned they will basically pocket the deposit at the end for spurious 'damages'. How can I protect against this?

Should I get a lawyer involved before I sign a new lease, anyone done this?

Any lease over three years is not valid unless endorsed by the local land office anyways. While this doesn't help you safeguard your deposit it just means you are not signing an enforceable contract without it being properly registered.

That said, I doubt the 20k will even come close to cover your final month utility payments and extraordinary wear and tear on the property. Besides, over eight years you are talking 200 baht per month. It's not really an issue, is it?

They are back to back 6 month leases. Two months deposit is B40k there is only normal wear & tear so of course I want my money back.

[Harry2]

The way I have attempted to protect myself was to get the landlord to do a 'damage' inspection before we sign the next lease. He will check the condition of everything and agree what the 'cost' of repair is, we will either repair it then or deduct that amount from the final deposit. Any additional damage done in next six months is also deductible. With photos of the condition and I hope a signed statement I can make it difficult for them to hold back the deposit, however if they did I would both threaten a lawyer & actually hire one.

[Kannikapor88]

Wife and I move out of a condo after 1 year lease - have a bad feeling that Real Estate Agency is gonna try to take some of our deposit cause of some worn out old furniture that has been in the condo for almost 10 years ...

Even tho we like the owner (living in same condominium as us) we wont hesitate 1 second to inform Immigration about TM30 he didnt give them and the Tax Authorities about rental income ... The guy has 4 condos he rent out and we really doubt that he is "clean" with all of them ... I will of course give him a warning first so he has a chance to give up our Money ...

One thing for sure, we will never use this Agency again ...

[ldnguy]

It's customary to not pay rent for the last two months. If he's a prick, change the locks on the apartment to ones that look exactly the same. This way he can't enter without breaking the door or spending money.

Be nice. There was a guy that got jammed up by the owner falsely reporting that he stole furniture.

If he tries to cheat you tell him you are going to report him to the tax authorities. Most don't pay taxes on their rental income. If he hasn't paid taxes, the tax man will back date the bill to the date he bought the property. He could be in for a big bill. Make sure you move out first and document the exchange back to him.

This guy is correct

Most Thai owner will think of a way to withold deposits..

Just tell him you will report to Tax office it usually get a reponse that you are looking for.

Worked for us

or we just did not pay rent for the period covering deposit.

Document everything when you depart including all the items includeded in the property get a witness to couter sign that it is all there and is in good order..

No they don't. I've got every deposit back. Once I even got it back before I moved out because the landlord knew he'd be away. I've never been charged for any damage or normal wear and tear either. Most Thai landlords are honest.

[ldnguy]

Wife and I move out of a condo after 1 year lease - have a bad feeling that Real Estate Agency is gonna try to take some of our deposit cause of some worn out old furniture that has been in the condo for almost 10 years ...

Even tho we like the owner (living in same condominium as us) we wont hesitate 1 second to inform Immigration about TM30 he didnt give them and the Tax Authorities about rental income ... The guy has 4 condos he rent out and we really doubt that he is "clean" with all of them ... I will of course give him a warning first so he has a chance to give up our Money ...

One thing for sure, we will never use this Agency again ...

Why do you have a bad feeling. Seems like you're getting upset, angry and threatening over something that hasn't even happened.