Thai Immigration launches 'new' crackdown on visa runners

[PattayaClub]

I wish to disclose my ignorance.

If you are not a tourist, for what reasons would one need to do visa runs?

There are numerous visas available for long stay. If you do not qualify, you are not welcome!

Enlightenment sought.

You have certainly done that, disclosed your ignorance I mean, your words, not mine. Who are you to say who should be welcome or not welcome in Thailand?

A lot of people don't want to have a lot of money in a Thai bank, and are happy to do visa runs. Why should they not be welcome in Thailand? They are still

contributing to the economy.

For the same reason that Mexicans aren't welcomed in the US.

Not being an American citizen it is not for me to comment on this.

I am an American citizen and I'll be your Huckleberry. While Donald Trump and a few other loud mouths scream about Mexican immigrants in the US, I can godamnedguarantee you that they would not be there if they were NOT wanted. Forty years ago the borders were controlled. The influx today is quite deliberate. On of the big complaints made by the complainers is that the feds turn their backs on illegal immigration and block the State's attempts to curb it. Why do ou think that is? It's because the cheap labor is wanted. The illegals provide a ton of cheap labor all across the board. They also pay income taxes and FICA, though they can never qualify for Social Security benefits down the road.

So, yeah, the Mexicans contribute greatly to the American economy, and they are wanted. Don't kid yourself. Maybe if you went back and took economics 101, you'd understand.

And perhaps the Thais require an immigrant to have a job as a precursor to permanent residency for the same reason. Maybe they think merely paying taxes and spending money is an insufficient contribution.

[brewsterbudgen]

I wish to disclose my ignorance.

If you are not a tourist, for what reasons would one need to do visa runs?

There are numerous visas available for long stay. If you do not qualify, you are not welcome!

Enlightenment sought.

You have certainly done that, disclosed your ignorance I mean, your words, not mine. Who are you to say who should be welcome or not welcome in Thailand?

A lot of people don't want to have a lot of money in a Thai bank, and are happy to do visa runs. Why should they not be welcome in Thailand? They are still

contributing to the economy.

For the same reason that Mexicans aren't welcomed in the US.

Not being an American citizen it is not for me to comment on this.

I am an American citizen and I'll be your Huckleberry. While Donald Trump and a few other loud mouths scream about Mexican immigrants in the US, I can godamnedguarantee you that they would not be there if they were NOT wanted. Forty years ago the borders were controlled. The influx today is quite deliberate. On of the big complaints made by the complainers is that the feds turn their backs on illegal immigration and block the State's attempts to curb it. Why do ou think that is? It's because the cheap labor is wanted. The illegals provide a ton of cheap labor all across the board. They also pay income taxes and FICA, though they can never qualify for Social Security benefits down the road.

So, yeah, the Mexicans contribute greatly to the American economy, and they are wanted. Don't kid yourself. Maybe if you went back and took economics 101, you'd understand.

And perhaps the Thais require an immigrant to have a job as a precursor to permanent residency for the same reason. Maybe they think merely paying taxes and spending money is an insufficient contribution.

Most of the Laotians, Cambodians, Vietnamese and Burmese, whether legal migrant workers, in/out border runners or just illegal are also making valuable contributions to Thailand's economy.

[PattayaClub]

I am completely legal and always have been. But I have the distinct feeling that I am not really wanted/welcome here; only tolerated. More friendly countries allow their expats ownership of a small plot of land and house, and allow permanent residency for retirees that meet certain financial soundness tests. None of that here. I am married to a wonderful Thai woman and have made my life here, but having brought all my marbles in with no avenue to permanent residency, leaves me with a feeling of insecurity I can't shake.

I understand there is permanent residency, but it requires three years of continuous work with a work permit and I ama retired, so that is not an option. I can speak Thai, but am simply too old to learn to read and write it, so citizenship isn't going to happen either. I guess it is just the way it is. If I had it to do all again, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't be here.

Name me the counties that gives legal right of abode to retiree's ie PR ? there are not many.....

further go and look and see how many countries even let expats in on the basis of retirement a handful

And once you review all the terms / condtions and finanical requirements come back and tell me the deal retirees get in Thailand is so bad

If I were to do it again, I'd go to Panama. If you can show retirement income of $1,200US or more, you can get automatic permanent residency. Most people thee speak English. Spanish is a bout 100 times easier to speak than Thai. Spanish and English use the same alphabet.

The deal retirees get in Thailand is one of the worst in the world. Thee are places that are worse, but who would want to live there anyway? Would you want to live in Syria or Zimbabwe? I didn't think so. The thing that makes Thailand such a nice place to live is the climate and the people. I find the people to be mostly very friendly. I am not offended by the "double pricing" that upsets so many farang. I am only troubled by the very unfriendly and xenophobic immigration laws.

They provide no security for those expats living here.

Right so Panama thats 1....where else takes retiree's and secondly gives them PR / citizenship ?

Further just checked and retirees only get a residency visa in Panama if one purchases a property worth USD 200k or more and thats for everyone not just retirees, so even in Panama it seems they are not automatically given PR on the basis of retirement they are given PR on the basis of investmrnt

The retirees "worst" deal they get in Thailand is one of the few "deals" they do get LOL

How can it be the worst in the "world " when only a handful even let them in the door to retire ?, never mind the PR but.....

me thinks retiree doth protest too much...why should Thailand security for those who are neither PR or citizens ? .....if you want a security blanket and some to take care of you, stay at home then.....you made the choice to move to Thailand and one suspects you knew the process

Soutpeel, methinks you doth have no life. I made a simple comment a long time ago and keep getting these email updates. Holy cow! thirteen pages? Much ado about nothing, to use another Shakespearicism. I'm signing off this puppy. Enjoy yourself, seems you have nothing else.

[balo]

I really don't see the problem. Why can't most of you simply get a flight in? They won't question you then. AirAsia flies extremely cheap. Or go to Hong Kong, or Bali, or Vientaine, or Savannakhet, get a double entry tourist visa and not worry about it for half a year? Is it really worth going every 15 days?

IMHO, if you are so broke that you don't even have the money for the occasional flight, you should go back to your own country and earn a little more cash first or apply for a job as a teacher here to supplement your income.

It's their country, if they don't want you doing back to back visa exemption runs, that's their prerogative. You can't do that in the EU and you can't do that in the USA and you can't do that in Canada, so why should they allow it here?

Because they are all on low incomes so travelling by air is eating up on their monthly "budget" . I suspect we are talking about more than 100000 foregners living like this. Edited September 18, 2015 by balo

[fang37]

There are some who choose not to listen. They don't want $$$ in a Thai bank BUT wish to live here. WHY?

All take - no give!

My understanding is that there should not be a need for visa runs - just abide by the legislation.

BUT I AM "SPECIAL" - BS!

Why do you NEED to do a visa run? What are you trying to evade?

[speedtripler]

There are some who choose not to listen. They don't want $$$ in a Thai bank BUT wish to live here. WHY?

All take - no give!

My understanding is that there should not be a need for visa runs - just abide by the legislation.

BUT I AM "SPECIAL" - BS!

Why do you NEED to do a visa run? What are you trying to evade?

not everyone is 50+ or married

plenty of people in their 20s 30s 40s already made enough money to retire

nothing to evade

plenty of money in thai and other banks

just want a few straight answers about coming in or not

[peterjackson]

There are some who choose not to listen. They don't want $$$ in a Thai bank BUT wish to live here. WHY?

All take - no give!

My understanding is that there should not be a need for visa runs - just abide by the legislation.

BUT I AM "SPECIAL" - BS!

Why do you NEED to do a visa run? What are you trying to evade?

not everyone is 50+ or married

plenty of people in their 20s 30s 40s already made enough money to retire

nothing to evade

plenty of money in thai and other banks

just want a few straight answers about coming in or not

If they have already made enough money to retire. Part of that planning process should have been legal status and if their chosen destination is Thailand, that equation should include the cost of the Thai Visa Elite Card.

I had been planning for the past 7 years to 'retire' here and waited until I was 50 and planned for my partner to have the TVE card.

[fang37]

Even for ol' farts, there are many requirements eg $$$ in Thai bank, guaranteed income, land ownership.

If you are young, then there are visas available. Do you the $$$, B15+m?

What are you going to contribute to LOS?

Just maybe Thailand is not the place for you. Why Thailand? There are ample other locations which hunger for your wealth & experience.

[NoshowJones]

Pattaya Club. Yes I can see where you are coming from. I am a strong anti capitalist, although I try not to be hypocritable and can

accept it up to a point, but the likes of Richard Branson carry it too far.

[jpinx]

Just done it last week in the immigration office all of a whole 5 minutes out of my busy schedule

Agreed - I do my 90-day report when I am close to the immigration office on other business, and I usually get a re-entry permit at the same time. I've lived in other non-western countries and I've not experienced anywhere having a significantly easier system than Thailand, just different hoops to jump through.

For "security" in retirement which some people seem to crave, I believe PR is the option available, but you still can not own land. You only save a little paperwork for reporting and financials.

[bigt3116]

This only affects those who go out/in every 15 or 30 days (depending on their nationality).

If you have a valid tourist visa, retirement visa, non-o, non-b etc etc then you are fine.

It's basically Immigration trying to stamp out those who abuse the visa-exempt system.

If you are legit, you have nothing to worry about!

Edit to add - doing out/in border hops on visa exempt every month has always been against the rules. It seems that just now, Immigration are being forced to apply the rules.

What rules ? It has never been against any rule to do border runs, the only rule was the 90 days in any 180, and that has long been rescinded.

[bamukloy]

I don't get why anyone would.

A trip to your local immigration office every 90 days VS a visa run every month???

seems like a no brainer to me

Unless, of course, you're one of the many who don't qualify for a legitimate visa and/or other permission to stay in the country long term (like extension of stay). Those guys have no such option, and either have to do visa runs, risk arrest, or leave the country.

Read about a new 6 month, multi-entry for B5000. Has anyone given it a try ? This would be a pretty good option.

Not a good option at all if intending to stay 6 months.

Have to do border trip after 90 days, expenses min. around 2,300

Will have to pay extensions on 2 entries 2800

With initial visa this totalling 10,100

Alternatively one could do 3 out/back in trips within the six months and have just under nine stay, but again more expense and more travel.

Double entry is more prefferable to the above, but if having to take the new option, with the added expense, maybe ED visa and Thai language school will look more attractive again.

[Artisi]

The only way to end this madness is for immediate reciprocation from western nations to make the sons and daughters of the Thai elite start visa running - with clear doubts over their re-entry being cast. Once these little darlings have been forced to leave their luxury dwellings to flit off to Calais or other migrant infested hellholes with no real idea when or if they will be allowed to return, there will be an awakening.

And then perhaps Thailand will require all tourists from say the UK, to have visas, as the UK requires of them.

That would be reciprocation too.

It would, but it wouldn't be smart at all.

People from western countries come to Thailand by hundreds of thousands as tourists and spend money here.

People from Thailand go to western countries to work (if they can), a few go to study, and a few others actually go to travel.

And many go to disappear after their visa / entery expires to stay illegally, hence the rigid requirements imposed by countries like, Australia, USA, England etc for Thai's wanting to visit, travel etc.

[VIPinthailand]

they want you to make visa run to bring money to smaller towns .by example many people go to udon before going to Vientiane.

if not, what would happen? , millions of guys staying with their girlfriend all the time, eating at market and go beach in the evening and that s all? . kicking you out every 90 days is good for the Thai economy. airlines, bus, tuck tuck, they all make money.

and more money they make, more they can decrease prices to compete with more companies. enjoy your little visa run...

Edited September 23, 2015 by VIPinthailand

[jacko45k]

The only way to end this madness is for immediate reciprocation from western nations to make the sons and daughters of the Thai elite start visa running - with clear doubts over their re-entry being cast. Once these little darlings have been forced to leave their luxury dwellings to flit off to Calais or other migrant infested hellholes with no real idea when or if they will be allowed to return, there will be an awakening.

And then perhaps Thailand will require all tourists from say the UK, to have visas, as the UK requires of them.

That would be reciprocation too.

It would, but it wouldn't be smart at all.

People from western countries come to Thailand by hundreds of thousands as tourists and spend money here.

People from Thailand go to western countries to work (if they can), a few go to study, and a few others actually go to travel.

And many go to disappear after their visa / entery expires to stay illegally, hence the rigid requirements imposed by countries like, Australia, USA, England etc for Thai's wanting to visit, travel etc.

And quite a few foreigners do the same in Thailand, or overstay, or obtain visas/ permissions to stay that do not match their status etc.

The point was Thailand offers quite tolerant and straightforward options to permit foreigners to stay in Thailand beyond that of a tourist visit.

And also allow tourist visits completely without need of pre-vetting.To suggest that Western nations reciprocate (better to say retaliate) for any actions from Thailand to protect their borders is unwarranted.

[luke000]

If they have already made enough money to retire. Part of that planning process should have been legal status and if their chosen destination is Thailand, that equation should include the cost of the Thai Visa Elite Card.

I had been planning for the past 7 years to 'retire' here and waited until I was 50 and planned for my partner to have the TVE card.

Why I would avoid the Elite card : Thai immigration have a habit of changing the rules and regulations on a continuous basis , The elite card is a lot of money to invest in a Visa that could change at any time , without notice

[impulse]

If they have already made enough money to retire. Part of that planning process should have been legal status and if their chosen destination is Thailand, that equation should include the cost of the Thai Visa Elite Card.

I had been planning for the past 7 years to 'retire' here and waited until I was 50 and planned for my partner to have the TVE card.

Why I would avoid the Elite card : Thai immigration have a habit of changing the rules and regulations on a continuous basis , The elite card is a lot of money to invest in a Visa that could change at any time , without notice

That's a straw man argument. What you're really saying is that you don't want to spend the money. Fair enough.

The fact that they do change the (enforcement of the) rules regularly is a great reason to enroll in the program. I'd bet dollars to donuts that any existing members will either be grandfathered in, or their enrollment fee will be refunded if they ever do, in fact, cancel the program. They aren't going to hose their "preferred" guests- the ones that have demonstrated spending power.

Long stay backpackers and shoestringers to whom they have made no promises- sure. Thailand owes them nothing, and their ability to enter and leave the country -and under what terms- is subject to the whims of the current government in power at the time. But not the high rollers who have had promises made. Because after they've been hosed once, there's no taking another bite... And those are the guys they want to keep as guests.

Edited October 21, 2015 by impulse

[Christie Paul]

If they have already made enough money to retire. Part of that planning process should have been legal status and if their chosen destination is Thailand, that equation should include the cost of the Thai Visa Elite Card.

I had been planning for the past 7 years to 'retire' here and waited until I was 50 and planned for my partner to have the TVE card.

Why I would avoid the Elite card : Thai immigration have a habit of changing the rules and regulations on a continuous basis , The elite card is a lot of money to invest in a Visa that could change at any time , without notice

That's a straw man argument. What you're really saying is that you don't want to spend the money. Fair enough.

The fact that they do change the (enforcement of the) rules regularly is a great reason to enroll in the program. I'd bet dollars to donuts that any existing members will either be grandfathered in, or their enrollment fee will be refunded if they ever do, in fact, cancel the program. They aren't going to hose their "preferred" guests- the ones that have demonstrated spending power.

Long stay backpackers and shoestringers to whom they have made no promises- sure. Thailand owes them nothing, and their ability to enter and leave the country -and under what terms- is subject to the whims of the current government in power at the time. But not the high rollers who have had promises made. Because after they've been hosed once, there's no taking another bite... And those are the guys they want to keep as guests.

You are attempting to use morality and logic to predict how a government will act. Yet, these two attributes have no bearing on policy.

[chrisinth]

If they have already made enough money to retire. Part of that planning process should have been legal status and if their chosen destination is Thailand, that equation should include the cost of the Thai Visa Elite Card.

I had been planning for the past 7 years to 'retire' here and waited until I was 50 and planned for my partner to have the TVE card.

Why I would avoid the Elite card : Thai immigration have a habit of changing the rules and regulations on a continuous basis , The elite card is a lot of money to invest in a Visa that could change at any time , without notice

That's a straw man argument. What you're really saying is that you don't want to spend the money. Fair enough.

The fact that they do change the (enforcement of the) rules regularly is a great reason to enroll in the program. I'd bet dollars to donuts that any existing members will either be grandfathered in, or their enrollment fee will be refunded if they ever do, in fact, cancel the program. They aren't going to hose their "preferred" guests- the ones that have demonstrated spending power.

Long stay backpackers and shoestringers to whom they have made no promises- sure. Thailand owes them nothing, and their ability to enter and leave the country -and under what terms- is subject to the whims of the current government in power at the time. But not the high rollers who have had promises made. Because after they've been hosed once, there's no taking another bite... And those are the guys they want to keep as guests.

Did you make your money the intelligent way or did you get it from the bank of mom and dad? Because there is nothing intelligent in your post.

For example... Did original elite holders get a partial refund for services cut?

You speak of lowly tourists as some kind of a burden to Thailand, but these tourists (as demonstrated by Chinese) are what matters most. Not a few dozen Thai elite subscribers.

You seem to read what you want to see, as most of us do. I didn't for instance see any reference to lowly tourists in his post, but did see reference to long stay backpackers and shoestringers, which, again my own personal interpretation, is different to normal tourists.

With your reference to the Chinese, how many of them do you know that try to stay here long time? It is true that proper tourists are necessary to the economy, but the few thousand people attempting to stay long term on a shoestring do not really matter to the overall figures.

No matter how important that they may think they are..............................

[CharlieH]

Off topic/ Bickering posts removed.

[mgjackson69]

they want you to make visa run to bring money to smaller towns .by example many people go to udon before going to Vientiane.

if not, what would happen? , millions of guys staying with their girlfriend all the time, eating at market and go beach in the evening and that s all? . kicking you out every 90 days is good for the Thai economy. airlines, bus, tuck tuck, they all make money.

and more money they make, more they can decrease prices to compete with more companies. enjoy your little visa run...

More likely "they" do not want people doing visa runs at all.

I am sure the government would rather have people obtaining the proper visa for their intended purpose in staying in The Kingdom.

[Soutpeel]

If they have already made enough money to retire. Part of that planning process should have been legal status and if their chosen destination is Thailand, that equation should include the cost of the Thai Visa Elite Card.

I had been planning for the past 7 years to 'retire' here and waited until I was 50 and planned for my partner to have the TVE card.

Why I would avoid the Elite card : Thai immigration have a habit of changing the rules and regulations on a continuous basis , The elite card is a lot of money to invest in a Visa that could change at any time , without notice

That's a straw man argument. What you're really saying is that you don't want to spend the money. Fair enough.

The fact that they do change the (enforcement of the) rules regularly is a great reason to enroll in the program. I'd bet dollars to donuts that any existing members will either be grandfathered in, or their enrollment fee will be refunded if they ever do, in fact, cancel the program. They aren't going to hose their "preferred" guests- the ones that have demonstrated spending power.

Long stay backpackers and shoestringers to whom they have made no promises- sure. Thailand owes them nothing, and their ability to enter and leave the country -and under what terms- is subject to the whims of the current government in power at the time. But not the high rollers who have had promises made. Because after they've been hosed once, there's no taking another bite... And those are the guys they want to keep as guests.

You are attempting to use morality and logic to predict how a government will act. Yet, these two attributes have no bearing on policy.

No he is actually using the TE contract T&Cs which memory serves talks about refunding the money pro-rata, and before you say it...

i believe, and stand to be corrected by TE members, the fees are paid into a Singapore corporate account, therefore there is a Singapore legal entity and therefore the T&C's would be enforceable under Singapore law, if they breached, the contract and didnt refund...

[luke000]

Why I would avoid the Elite card : Thai immigration have a habit of changing the rules and regulations on a continuous basis , The elite card is a lot of money to invest in a Visa that could change at any time , without notice

That's a straw man argument. What you're really saying is that you don't want to spend the money. Fair enough.

The fact that they do change the (enforcement of the) rules regularly is a great reason to enroll in the program. I'd bet dollars to donuts that any existing members will either be grandfathered in, or their enrollment fee will be refunded if they ever do, in fact, cancel the program. They aren't going to hose their "preferred" guests- the ones that have demonstrated spending power.

Long stay backpackers and shoestringers to whom they have made no promises- sure. Thailand owes them nothing, and their ability to enter and leave the country -and under what terms- is subject to the whims of the current government in power at the time. But not the high rollers who have had promises made. Because after they've been hosed once, there's no taking another bite... And those are the guys they want to keep as guests.

Well, I hve been here constantly for five years .

I could have bought an Elite visa five years ago for 500 000 Baht

But instead I did three years on the 15 day Visa exempt , costing 1000 B per trip

75000 Baht over three years .

I then got some tourist Visas for a year 10 000 Baht

I then got an education visa , 30 000 Baht, including school, visa and extensions .

I then got more tourist visas for a year 10 000 Baht .

So, in five years , I spent 125 000 Baht on visas

I also learnt Thai and visited neighboring Country numerous times

....................and I saved myself 375 000 Baht in the process .

[VIPinthailand]

Why I would avoid the Elite card : Thai immigration have a habit of changing the rules and regulations on a continuous basis , The elite card is a lot of money to invest in a Visa that could change at any time , without notice

That's a straw man argument. What you're really saying is that you don't want to spend the money. Fair enough.

The fact that they do change the (enforcement of the) rules regularly is a great reason to enroll in the program. I'd bet dollars to donuts that any existing members will either be grandfathered in, or their enrollment fee will be refunded if they ever do, in fact, cancel the program. They aren't going to hose their "preferred" guests- the ones that have demonstrated spending power.

Long stay backpackers and shoestringers to whom they have made no promises- sure. Thailand owes them nothing, and their ability to enter and leave the country -and under what terms- is subject to the whims of the current government in power at the time. But not the high rollers who have had promises made. Because after they've been hosed once, there's no taking another bite... And those are the guys they want to keep as guests.

Well, I hve been here constantly for five years .

I could have bought an Elite visa five years ago for 500 000 Baht

But instead I did three years on the 15 day Visa exempt , costing 1000 B per trip

75000 Baht over three years .

I then got some tourist Visas for a year 10 000 Baht

I then got an education visa , 30 000 Baht, including school, visa and extensions .

I then got more tourist visas for a year 10 000 Baht .

So, in five years , I spent 125 000 Baht on visas

I also learnt Thai and visited neighboring Country numerous times

....................and I saved myself 375 000 Baht in the process .

and with all the money you have saved(money plus compound interest) , you can get more visa, and buy a few condos in the future for your retirement.

you are a true elite.

[Heng]

Just confirmed with Chonburi immigration.... just because you qualify for the Thai Visa Elite Card in a post on the ThaiVisa.com forum doesn't necessarily mean you qualify for it in real life.

:-)