Thai Immigration launches 'new' crackdown on visa runners

[SiSePuede419]

"Thailand needs the big crackdown.......500,000 in bank account"

I know you're going to find this SHOCKING, but LOTS of CRIMINALS have 500K Baht in their bank accounts.

Including, the Saudi Royal Family, the #1 Funder of Terrorism around the world for the past 80 years.

[lkv]

Tell me i am wrong, but seriously, I dont believe that these words came from a Thai Official. They just dont talk like that.

Firstly I never said Thai official, I said someone high up so I'm just playing with words, everybody can understand what they want.

Secondly, I don't have high up friends (whatever that would mean). I was being sarcastic in response to another comment.

Yes, they probably don't talk like that. Question is: Do they think like that? Or do they talk between themselves like that? When they talk about us?

We're in the LOS here, what people think and what people tell you they think are two different things.

Looking at the pricing structure that the Immigration advertises, the one who came up with all the ideas implemented had in my opinion a "milk them" attitude, that was approved by all the apparatus.

Also, I do think it's a rather nationalist country. I do believe that there was a culture implemented about "the foreigner"

Let's start with the word "farang". If you had an Asian GF and would take her to your home country your mum would never say "Hey where did the Asian go? Shopping?". There's a whole thread on this farang word topic and the GF example is not my trademark actually (apologies to the original poster:) )

On top of that, when you analize the whole Erawan story, and the way the officials came out with the type of comments that they did, it leaves you with a bad taste in your mouth.

Only a short quote:

"Pol Col W...Y.., deputy commander..MinBuri....said the raid was part of a crime suppression measures as many foreigners rent apartments and houses in the area"

So we raid the place. Minburi (lol) because we know that foreigners rent there (lol) so we need to suppress crime.

Official statement. From an official.

And people are wondering why I'm pi##ed off.

Seems you are are intending to leave Thailand very soon?

If not why not ?

I would not live in a place that p***** me off.......................

Lol. You quoted me before I edited that post and I took the P word out to make it sound lighter.

Funny enough I'm not intending to leave Thailand very soon.

I actually love many things about Thailand, I find it kind of addictive. Easy lifestyle. Nice food. Etc.

It's just this Erawan thing left me with a very bad taste in my mouth, because I followed the case closely, all the statements that have been made by the officials etc.

When someone sends you a message like "we do raids where we've been told that foreigners live for crime suppression", making it sound like foreigner = criminal, it doesn't feel like "Welcome to Thailand Have a nice day" anymore. The fact that they went to the "tourist area" to reassure tourists that everything is ok. Tourist area = Sukhumvit Soi 4 at the prostitutes bars. Because we know what you white people really want here sexual tourism. Well gee thanks, I don't go to Soi 4, don't put an equal between them two.

I'm also following the Ko Tao Murders thread closely, about how business really goes in Thailand.

I understand it's a corrupt country, I understand it's not regulated, it's not that aspect that started to bother me, it's the authorities' attitude towards foreigners that they are now impregnating to the general local public. It's a negative vibe. I'm not liking it.

I am not mentally yet at the stage where I'm considering leaving Thailand yet but I can't say I would not see myself somewhere else in 5 years.

[lkv]

"Thailand needs the big crackdown.......500,000 in bank account"

I know you're going to find this SHOCKING, but LOTS of CRIMINALS have 500K Baht in their bank accounts.

Including, the Saudi Royal Family, the #1 Funder of Terrorism around the world for the past 80 years.

Yeah. Coming back to the Thai Elite Visa, the people purchasing this fall into the following categories.

- People very well off who prefer to spend (because it's a fee) 14,000 $ or whatever (it's getting cheaper now with the devaluation of the baht) because they don't want this visa run headaches and they just pay for the "luxury"

- People who are less well off but make such an investment because they are really addicted to Thailand and they are not bothered to look for cheaper but more time consuming alternatives

And real criminals, not talking about penny criminals here, I'm talking about Russian mafia, fraudsters etc who look at it as a small cost for being allowed to quietly enjoy life undisturbed.

I have a feeling that 85% of the current users of Elite would find themselves in the third category.

So whoever is playing that broken CD called " we are tightening Immigration rules to get rid of all these criminals", they can stop playing it, I'm not buying the logic.

[Neurath]

Amazing they continue to make it so complicated to live and be in Thailand legally so we can spend our money here - including hiring locals for yard work, house repairs, barbers, massage, motorcycle repairs, etc. etc. We'll see what happens, but I'm already planning on a second home in another, more "user friendly" country. It's ridiculous.

Twilight of the Raj. A melancholy vapor settles over white minds as dark locals get churlish at being watched doing the yard work, house repairs, massages and motorcycle repairs, etc. etc. Godawful situation, godawful times.

[cumgranosalum]

Isn't it next month that the new 6 month tourist visa is supposed to start?

[jacko45k]

The only way to end this madness is for immediate reciprocation from western nations to make the sons and daughters of the Thai elite start visa running - with clear doubts over their re-entry being cast. Once these little darlings have been forced to leave their luxury dwellings to flit off to Calais or other migrant infested hellholes with no real idea when or if they will be allowed to return, there will be an awakening.

And then perhaps Thailand will require all tourists from say the UK, to have visas, as the UK requires of them.

That would be reciprocation too.

As much as I agree in principle...

But the UK will never have many real tourists from Thailand, yet if Thailand were to impose visa only on Brits, and other nations that impose visa requirements it would be the final nail in the coffin of the tourist industry.

I see problems already with package tours which start with a few nights in Bangkok before flying out to another Asian country before returning to a beach resort in Thailand.

Perhaps there is an opportunity!

Purely selfish on my part, I would like to take my long-term partner for another trip to the UK, but found the whole visa procedure daunting and onerous. I think most of the many who liked my post understand the sentiment of my comment.

[jacko45k]

What amazes me is that there actually foreigners living in Thailand on visa exempts only.

Who in their right mind could be bothered having to go to a border every 30 days to stamp in and out. That is no life.

Does anyone know anybody who actually does this?

I don't get why anyone would.

A trip to your local immigration office every 90 days VS a visa run every month???

seems like a no brainer to me

The options are limited for someone who is under 50 and does not want to pay for an elite visa.

No they are not.

A choice of ONE that is likely to get you refused one day IS limited in my mind.

[NoshowJones]

I wish to disclose my ignorance.

If you are not a tourist, for what reasons would one need to do visa runs?

There are numerous visas available for long stay. If you do not qualify, you are not welcome!

Enlightenment sought.

You have certainly done that, disclosed your ignorance I mean, your words, not mine. Who are you to say who should be welcome or not welcome in Thailand?

A lot of people don't want to have a lot of money in a Thai bank, and are happy to do visa runs. Why should they not be welcome in Thailand? They are still

contributing to the economy.

Collectively, if you added up everything that all of the people you described contribute to the Thai economy, it would still be less than trivial. Just because you go into a restaurant, order a coffee and nurse it for five hours, doesn't really mean you're contributing to the success of the restaurant.

Who cares if you spend 4x or 5x what a Thai spends? It's really very trivial. Thailand is a $5B dollar economy. Your $15K or $20K a year isn't going to put a dent in the economy.

To me it's so funny that whenever you talk about immigration, many of the expats love to brag about how much they contribute to the economy. When the conversation isn't about immigration, they're complaining about the price of beer going up 5 baht.

A lot of what you say makes sense, but there is a lot of houses and property being bought by ex pats.

I do believe that if all the expats up and left, Thailand would feel it alright. They would not let us settle

here without it being to their advantage.

[dazzz]

Amazing they continue to make it so complicated to live and be in Thailand legally so we can spend our money here - including hiring locals for yard work, house repairs, barbers, massage, motorcycle repairs, etc. etc. We'll see what happens, but I'm already planning on a second home in another, more "user friendly" country. It's ridiculous.

I can only assume you have never spoken to a Thai living in your home country about what it takes for them to live in your country. What it takes to live in Thailand is trivial compared to the hoops they have to jump through to live in our countries.

If you sit down , think for a while , you can or should be able to work ouy why

[alant]

what is a renewal of a visa exempt entry?

Can anyone help with the following example;

If a tourist from the UK arrives next week by air using the 3o day visa exempt facility. He has a return flight in 2 weeks to the UK.

A week later he goes by hired motorcycle from thailand to cambodia (the motorcycle is hired here in thailand).

After 3 days in cambodia he rides back. Will he be let back in?

thanks to anyone who can give good advice.

The motorcycle is a red herring and only serves to compklicate matters.

We have a tourist who enters Thailand on a VNR basis and then chooses to holiday in Cambodia for 3 days, before returning to Thailand on a VNR basis.

No problem.

It is the in and out so-called 'vis runs' that are being blocked.

Slightly puzzled by the red herring reference as this trip is planned to be a motorcycle trip. I think you are saying all will be ok for the trip Jip99? thanks for the info.

[khwaibah]

what is a renewal of a visa exempt entry?

Can anyone help with the following example;

If a tourist from the UK arrives next week by air using the 3o day visa exempt facility. He has a return flight in 2 weeks to the UK.

A week later he goes by hired motorcycle from thailand to cambodia (the motorcycle is hired here in thailand).

After 3 days in cambodia he rides back. Will he be let back in?

thanks to anyone who can give good advice.

The motorcycle is a red herring and only serves to compklicate matters.

We have a tourist who enters Thailand on a VNR basis and then chooses to holiday in Cambodia for 3 days, before returning to Thailand on a VNR basis.

No problem.

It is the in and out so-called 'vis runs' that are being blocked.

Slightly puzzled by the red herring reference as this trip is planned to be a motorcycle trip. I think you are saying all will be ok for the trip Jip99? thanks for the info.

According to this its a big NO. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/856250-thai-visa-run-crackdown-latest-update-from-thaicambo-border/#entry9859206

[AYJAYDEE]

The only way to end this madness is for immediate reciprocation from western nations to make the sons and daughters of the Thai elite start visa running - with clear doubts over their re-entry being cast. Once these little darlings have been forced to leave their luxury dwellings to flit off to Calais or other migrant infested hellholes with no real idea when or if they will be allowed to return, there will be an awakening.

You must be joking - do you know how difficult it is for Thai people to get a visa at all for countries in Europe or the States? You think Thai people can just show up at the border in the UK and come in for 30 days, then take a train to Paris and turn around and keep coming in, indefinitely? So you think it's madness to clamp down on this practice, eh?

Have you not learned anyting in your life . That statement is moronic and there is aways 1 dunderhead who will make it .Poor asians will go to a western country on a tourist visa and stay there for a better life . Poor westerners do not come to asia to make a better life. You can see the problems in europe now but i am sure you will not see those same immigrants /refugees coming to thailand or any other asian country where their life would not be better .

There is a world of difference from an asian going to uk with no money and becoming a burden on a state which has to look after them than a uk person coming to asia where they will get nothing from any government .

poor asians dont get tourist visas to western countries

[TheKnave]

The only way to end this madness is for immediate reciprocation from western nations to make the sons and daughters of the Thai elite start visa running - with clear doubts over their re-entry being cast. Once these little darlings have been forced to leave their luxury dwellings to flit off to Calais or other migrant infested hellholes with no real idea when or if they will be allowed to return, there will be an awakening.

And then perhaps Thailand will require all tourists from say the UK, to have visas, as the UK requires of them.

That would be reciprocation too.

It would, but it wouldn't be smart at all.

People from western countries come to Thailand by hundreds of thousands as tourists and spend money here.

People from Thailand go to western countries to work (if they can), a few go to study, and a few others actually go to travel.

I would guess that most people who stay here using serial visa exempt entries are those who don't have the financial wherewithal to be able to meet the requirements for a long-stay visa and extension. Those who may fly in from Europe or America or other parts of Asia for a short visit and have money to spend will still get a visa exempt entry or tourist visa, travel around the country, spend money and then leave. Those who have the financial resources and meet other requirements for longer stays will have no problem and Thailand will benefit from their presence.

Anyone who doesn't meet the requirements for the usual extensions of stay but has money to burn can go the Thai Elite route.

One can sympathize with those who are struggling financially and can only remain in Thailand by doing visa exempt border runs (and we can envision that anyone of us could find ourselves in a similar situation) just as we can sympathize with all the migrants fleeing to Europe, Australia or the US.

But claiming that Thailand is economically dependent on those who stay here using serial visa exempt entries because they don't have the finances to get long-stay extensions is a specious argument. Thailand, like western countries, has to look after its own self interests by restricting who enters and remains here.

Uh, explain to us again how people under 50, even with the requisite financial wherewithal, excluding a small minority who buy the Thai Elite, can stay long term...

Sorry to bust your bubble, but long before you arrived in Thailand, expats were staying indefinitely on 30-day stamps, without any harm to Thailand. Quite the contrary...

This all started with Mr. T's 'Thai Rak Thai' party, a nationalistic and xenophobic party name, and has been gaining momentum ever since. The anti-foreign attitude of those in power, and those subtly and not-so-subtly influenced by them has no basis in reality. If border runners are not contributing to Thailand's economy by spending many multiples of the average Thai's earnings, then how about explaining, at very least, what harm they are doing?

Another typically sycophantic post by the defender of all things illogical and Thai. Becoming tedious, at best...

[TheKnave]

The only way to end this madness is for immediate reciprocation from western nations to make the sons and daughters of the Thai elite start visa running - with clear doubts over their re-entry being cast. Once these little darlings have been forced to leave their luxury dwellings to flit off to Calais or other migrant infested hellholes with no real idea when or if they will be allowed to return, there will be an awakening.

How does that make any kind of sense?

1.It's not the case that children of wealthy Thais stay overseas without proper documentation and visas.Why should Thai young people be penalised for the mistakes and omissions of usually middle aged foreigners?

2.The Thai Immigration system is a liberal one, far more so than most Western countries.

3.The visa run system is and always was a breach of the spirit of Thai immigration rules.

4.The fact that non qualified foreigners can remain "resident" through visa running is symptomatic of the Thai system's flexibility and generosity.

5.It was always a risk that the authorities would clamp down on visa runners in the event of a major security crisis.

6.I hope that there will be a relaxation but it cannot be guaranteed nor can it be guaranteed that after any relaxation there will not be another clamp down in the future.

7.It is a relatively simple matter for qualified foreigners to obtain proper documentation.The cost is not excessive.

8.The reality is that many thousands fail to understand Thailand is not a suitable retirement destination for those who aren't reasonably well off.

9.The tolerance of the Thai authorities - even now - as regards visa running should be seen as a privilege not as a right.

Wrong on so many counts.

Just to address #1:

Go to almost any Thai restaurant in a big city in America, and you will find Thai 'students' waiting tables, working illegally, often for tips only. Illegal for employee and employer.

Best stick to something you actually know about.

[TheKnave]

The only way to end this madness is for immediate reciprocation from western nations to make the sons and daughters of the Thai elite start visa running - with clear doubts over their re-entry being cast. Once these little darlings have been forced to leave their luxury dwellings to flit off to Calais or other migrant infested hellholes with no real idea when or if they will be allowed to return, there will be an awakening.

You must be joking - do you know how difficult it is for Thai people to get a visa at all for countries in Europe or the States? You think Thai people can just show up at the border in the UK and come in for 30 days, then take a train to Paris and turn around and keep coming in, indefinitely? So you think it's madness to clamp down on this practice, eh?

Yeah, hard for the bargirls you know, but middle-class and hiso Thais have no problem getting into the US on a student visa, and then taking a job at a Thai restaurant after they can't seem to get the TOEFL score they need...

LA has the largest Thai population outside of Thailand, and they aren't all legal...

[Jip99]

what is a renewal of a visa exempt entry?

Can anyone help with the following example;

If a tourist from the UK arrives next week by air using the 3o day visa exempt facility. He has a return flight in 2 weeks to the UK.

A week later he goes by hired motorcycle from thailand to cambodia (the motorcycle is hired here in thailand).

After 3 days in cambodia he rides back. Will he be let back in?

thanks to anyone who can give good advice.

The motorcycle is a red herring and only serves to compklicate matters.

We have a tourist who enters Thailand on a VNR basis and then chooses to holiday in Cambodia for 3 days, before returning to Thailand on a VNR basis.

No problem.

It is the in and out so-called 'vis runs' that are being blocked.

Slightly puzzled by the red herring reference as this trip is planned to be a motorcycle trip. I think you are saying all will be ok for the trip Jip99? thanks for the info.

According to this its a big NO. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/856250-thai-visa-run-crackdown-latest-update-from-thaicambo-border/#entry9859206

Alant - despite Kwabah's scare-mongering I believe you will be OK going out and coming back a few days later. BUT, I would go and speak to immigration first about your plans and get their confirmation. I thought you were describing a hypothetical situation but I can now see that you want to take the bike across. I have severe reservations about being allowed to take hired bike into Cambodia.

[jayboy]

The only way to end this madness is for immediate reciprocation from western nations to make the sons and daughters of the Thai elite start visa running - with clear doubts over their re-entry being cast. Once these little darlings have been forced to leave their luxury dwellings to flit off to Calais or other migrant infested hellholes with no real idea when or if they will be allowed to return, there will be an awakening.

How does that make any kind of sense?

1.It's not the case that children of wealthy Thais stay overseas without proper documentation and visas.Why should Thai young people be penalised for the mistakes and omissions of usually middle aged foreigners?

2.The Thai Immigration system is a liberal one, far more so than most Western countries.

3.The visa run system is and always was a breach of the spirit of Thai immigration rules.

4.The fact that non qualified foreigners can remain "resident" through visa running is symptomatic of the Thai system's flexibility and generosity.

5.It was always a risk that the authorities would clamp down on visa runners in the event of a major security crisis.

6.I hope that there will be a relaxation but it cannot be guaranteed nor can it be guaranteed that after any relaxation there will not be another clamp down in the future.

7.It is a relatively simple matter for qualified foreigners to obtain proper documentation.The cost is not excessive.

8.The reality is that many thousands fail to understand Thailand is not a suitable retirement destination for those who aren't reasonably well off.

9.The tolerance of the Thai authorities - even now - as regards visa running should be seen as a privilege not as a right.

Wrong on so many counts.

Just to address #1:

Go to almost any Thai restaurant in a big city in America, and you will find Thai 'students' waiting tables, working illegally, often for tips only. Illegal for employee and employer.

Best stick to something you actually know about.

You should pay attention.I was responding to a suggestion that Western countries should take revenge on the children of the Thai elite for the perceived indignities imposed here on foreign visa runners.

Children of the Thai elite do not need to cut corners on visas when they travel.

This has nothing to do with the kind of working class/middle class Thai youngster working for tips in overseas restaurants.

You don't address any of the other points so your arguments have no value.

[PattayaClub]

I am completely legal and always have been. But I have the distinct feeling that I am not really wanted/welcome here; only tolerated. More friendly countries allow their expats ownership of a small plot of land and house, and allow permanent residency for retirees that meet certain financial soundness tests. None of that here. I am married to a wonderful Thai woman and have made my life here, but having brought all my marbles in with no avenue to permanent residency, leaves me with a feeling of insecurity I can't shake.

I understand there is permanent residency, but it requires three years of continuous work with a work permit and I ama retired, so that is not an option. I can speak Thai, but am simply too old to learn to read and write it, so citizenship isn't going to happen either. I guess it is just the way it is. If I had it to do all again, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't be here.

[Tomtomtom69]

The only way to end this madness is for immediate reciprocation from western nations to make the sons and daughters of the Thai elite start visa running - with clear doubts over their re-entry being cast. Once these little darlings have been forced to leave their luxury dwellings to flit off to Calais or other migrant infested hellholes with no real idea when or if they will be allowed to return, there will be an awakening.

And then perhaps Thailand will require all tourists from say the UK, to have visas, as the UK requires of them.

That would be reciprocation too.

Only thing is if Thailand ever did that, they could kiss their tourism industry, worth at least 10% of GDP and growing, goodbye. Just like Indonesia did some years ago, but more recently it re-introduced visa waivers to draw back tourists.

Everyone knows how tourism obsessed Thailand is and has been for decades. Virtually every single day one hears the mention of how this and that is, or may affect tourism. One can never separate tourism and Thailand from the same sentence.

The UK on the other hand is far less dependent on tourism than Thailand is. It's much more of a desirable place to immigrate to, so UK immigration law tries to ensure those that come will also return at the end of their stays.

[Tomtomtom69]

What amazes me is that there actually foreigners living in Thailand on visa exempts only.

Who in their right mind could be bothered having to go to a border every 30 days to stamp in and out. That is no life.

Does anyone know anybody who actually does this?

I don't get why anyone would.

A trip to your local immigration office every 90 days VS a visa run every month???

seems like a no brainer to me

When I first came here, many years ago, and under the age of 50, border runs were just a way of life if you wanted to be here for extended periods of time. Use to hop on the special border runs buses for the trip. Wasn't too expensive, met some very interesting people, and read a book or the news papers. The buses were quite comfortable. It may have been against the law, but it wasn't enforced. I'd mix it up with trips to neighboring countries. Great way to explore this part of the world.

I understand that, but especially back then and even now to some extent, it isn't too difficult to get say a non-B multi entry visa, at least from your home country or another western country. Back in the day, 15-20 years ago you could have probably received one just for owning a condo or for meeting friends, nowadays you or your boss writes a letter specifying the reasons why you need to come to Thailand. OK, so you only get 90 days on each stay but can come and go at will during a period of 1 year.

If married, a non-O multi entry does the same thing.

Tourist visas also allow longer stays and cut down on the amount of travelling required, and there are also 2 and 3 entry ones.

[Tomtomtom69]

what is a renewal of a visa exempt entry?

Can anyone help with the following example;

If a tourist from the UK arrives next week by air using the 3o day visa exempt facility. He has a return flight in 2 weeks to the UK.

A week later he goes by hired motorcycle from thailand to cambodia (the motorcycle is hired here in thailand).

After 3 days in cambodia he rides back. Will he be let back in?

thanks to anyone who can give good advice.

The motorcycle is a red herring and only serves to compklicate matters.

We have a tourist who enters Thailand on a VNR basis and then chooses to holiday in Cambodia for 3 days, before returning to Thailand on a VNR basis.

No problem.

It is the in and out so-called 'vis runs' that are being blocked.

The motorcycle is NOT a red herring and in fact driving your own vehicle is actually a big advantage, not a disadvantage. Unless of course, it's Thai registered and the Cambodians refuse to allow it in without a carnet. Cambodia in fact only allows Thai vehicles in at 3 crossings anyway, and Poipet, one of the main crossings used by visa runners is not one of them.

The presence of a motorcycle (or car) actually shows you are a real tourist exploring the world on 2 (or 4) wheels.

The bombers used drivers to drive them around the region on their journey, no doubt being forced to switch vehicles at the border due to antiquated, archaic laws that have always been on the books here that prevent most vehicles from crossing an international border. SE Asia is many decades behind Europe in this respect.

No way they would have used their own vehicles, since that would have left a paper trail due to photocopying of documents that goes on, not to mention that without being absolutely sure, they would have encountered difficulties just trying to cross the border in a vehicle in the first place. Not to mention it would have cost tens of thousands of dollars just to purchase those vehicles.

But yes, the main issue here are visa runs. If someone does show up with a vehicle, almost certainly they are NOT a visa runner. Visa runners are usually short of both time and money. No way a visa runner is going to go to the effort and nuisance of spending an hour filling out export paperwork from the Thai side for their vehicle, photocopying multiple pages of their passport, car documents etc., doing the same thing on the Lao or Cambodian, Myanmar side etc. only to do spend another half an hour handing back documents, getting their car passport, registration stamped, photocopied on the way back.

[Tomtomtom69]

I am completely legal and always have been. But I have the distinct feeling that I am not really wanted/welcome here; only tolerated. More friendly countries allow their expats ownership of a small plot of land and house, and allow permanent residency for retirees that meet certain financial soundness tests. None of that here. I am married to a wonderful Thai woman and have made my life here, but having brought all my marbles in with no avenue to permanent residency, leaves me with a feeling of insecurity I can't shake.

I understand there is permanent residency, but it requires three years of continuous work with a work permit and I ama retired, so that is not an option. I can speak Thai, but am simply too old to learn to read and write it, so citizenship isn't going to happen either. I guess it is just the way it is. If I had it to do all again, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't be here.

It may surprise you, but Thailand actually makes it fairly easy to become a citizen, but you are right, unlike other countries merely being a resident does not qualify you.

Thai authorities want you to be married to a Thai citizen and working for 3 years straight as a minimum on a non-immigrant visa extension of stay, earning at least 40,000 Baht per month and paying tax on that, with a valid work permit of course, to become eligible for citizenship. I'm not sure if they require fluent Thai skills or not because I know of at least one famous Thai citizen, who apparently speaks no more than 100 words of Thai. That person is none other than former American citizen Bill Heinecke, who runs one of Thailand (and Asia's) biggest food empires, Minor international.

However, he received his Thai citizenship decades ago so perhaps they have become stricter now in terms of eligibility criteria. Requiring Thai proficiency, especially in a country where it's hard enough for many foreigners to even convince the locals they can speak their language is reasonable enough though. On the other hand, it seems to me that gradually they have loosened the criteria a bit, because previously one needed to be a permanent resident for like 5? years before becoming eligible for Thai citizenship, now it's possible to skip PR altogether (which offers relatively few advantages anyway) and apply for Thai citizenship straight away after meeting the eligibility criteria outlined above, but of course only if you are married to a Thai.

As I said, forget PR because not only is the PR route only granted to those working here (just like those seeking Thai citizenship), as a PR you still remain a foreigner and I believe PR holders STILL require a work permit, despite attempts since at least 2008 by the Joint Chambers of Commerce to eliminate this requirement. PR status also does NOT allow one to own land. Only citizenship does. So in that sense what does PR entitle you to? Not all that much, apart from unrestricted residence. I think the criteria for company ownership is loosened, but that's about it. There may also be a few other advantages, but citizenship is far and away the best option and you can even keep your existing nationality(ies) too, which is another advantage.

So-called migrant workers (this terminology is actually flawed since they have no right of abode in Thailand - they should just be called expats like everyone else) from Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia will never be eligible to become Thai citizens. This is because they don't earn enough and Thailand only wants rich, relatively successful people, preferably those married to it's citizens to become one of their own.

Retirees can never become Thai citizens, even if they are married to Thais, because they don't work. Thailand wants people working here before considering allowing them to become citizens.

Anyone who has ever spent any time in Thailand on any sort of non-O, non-B or tourist visa in the past, even if they previously held a PR but no longer do now, will find none of these will be taken into account when it comes to seeking PR again or citizenship. Only continunous, unbroken residence according to the above criteria is allowed.

[lkv]

What amazes me is that there actually foreigners living in Thailand on visa exempts only.

Who in their right mind could be bothered having to go to a border every 30 days to stamp in and out. That is no life.

Does anyone know anybody who actually does this?

I don't get why anyone would.

A trip to your local immigration office every 90 days VS a visa run every month???

seems like a no brainer to me

When I first came here, many years ago, and under the age of 50, border runs were just a way of life if you wanted to be here for extended periods of time. Use to hop on the special border runs buses for the trip. Wasn't too expensive, met some very interesting people, and read a book or the news papers. The buses were quite comfortable. It may have been against the law, but it wasn't enforced. I'd mix it up with trips to neighboring countries. Great way to explore this part of the world.

I understand that, but especially back then and even now to some extent, it isn't too difficult to get say a non-B multi entry visa, at least from your home country or another western country. Back in the day, 15-20 years ago you could have probably received one just for owning a condo or for meeting friends, nowadays you or your boss writes a letter specifying the reasons why you need to come to Thailand. OK, so you only get 90 days on each stay but can come and go at will during a period of 1 year.

If married, a non-O multi entry does the same thing.

Tourist visas also allow longer stays and cut down on the amount of travelling required, and there are also 2 and 3 entry ones.

Incorrect, starting about 2 years ago most of the embassies will not issue a multiple entry non-B valid for 12 months. They will issue instead a 3 month single entry Non B. That can be extended at local immigration for 12 months. One of the main requirements for that is having a work permit.

So it's not like it used to be, i can tell you that much.

Unless you know of some loophole i've missed in which case please PM me

[Tomtomtom69]

Update

Just got this by email from a visa run company.

All border check point with Thai-Cambodia will stamp only People with

valid visa. No OUT/IN for any nationality.

Kanchanaburi still refuse to accept travelers even with valid visa.

But Thai-Laos border it is still "Business as usual".

I think this time they will enforce it at least up to 1st October,

never mind the economic damage they cause.

I can attest to that, I went to Kanchanaburi border this morning, 4 hours drive. refused to be let out of the country with my valid tourist visa (triple entry, 3rd entry)

now I am scrambling around to figure out how to get the 3rd entry in in 2 days. apparently will need to fly ;\

Go to Laos - no need to fly. Or perhaps consider doing what normal tourists do. Actually spend a couple of days outside of Thailand THEN come back. If you had a Myanmar visa in your possession, surely you could have left Thailand at Phu Nam Ron and gone over to say Dawei?

[Tomtomtom69]

Amazing they continue to make it so complicated to live and be in Thailand legally so we can spend our money here - including hiring locals for yard work, house repairs, barbers, massage, motorcycle repairs, etc. etc. We'll see what happens, but I'm already planning on a second home in another, more "user friendly" country. It's ridiculous.

I can only assume you have never spoken to a Thai living in your home country about what it takes for them to live in your country. What it takes to live in Thailand is trivial compared to the hoops they have to jump through to live in our countries.

Plus, seems like a guy who can afford a home, and pay people to work on it, is not really the target of this crackdown.

Yeah not only that but the only reason people use this hired help here in Thailand and that includes local Thais, is because 1) Thailand is not a DIY culture and 2) labour is cheap.

Nobody says you have to hire someone to do your yard work. I do the easy stuff myself, such as mowing the lawn, planting shrubs, veggies, etc. well there's not a whole lot to do anyway; it's not like I'm felling trees although if I had to do that, I might hire someone simply because I don't have the required tools/expertise to do that myself and would rather have someone else take the risk.

But my American neighbors, who are a bit lazy and don't even have a lawn to speak of, hire Cambodians with their whipper snippers to cut about 2m2 of grass and cut a few branches off their trees every couple of months or so.

Hmm...I wonder how many people are able to cut their own hair and give themselves a massage. Logically someone needs to be hired to do that for you! Even in your own country. Unless of course your lovely wife can do both things for you, for free.

[Tomtomtom69]

Update

Just got this by email from a visa run company.

All border check point with Thai-Cambodia will stamp only People with

valid visa. No OUT/IN for any nationality.

Kanchanaburi still refuse to accept travelers even with valid visa.

But Thai-Laos border it is still "Business as usual".

I think this time they will enforce it at least up to 1st October,

never mind the economic damage they cause.

I can attest to that, I went to Kanchanaburi border this morning, 4 hours drive. refused to be let out of the country with my valid tourist visa (triple entry, 3rd entry)

now I am scrambling around to figure out how to get the 3rd entry in in 2 days. apparently will need to fly ;\

Go to Laos - no need to fly. Or perhaps consider doing what normal tourists do. Actually spend a couple of days outside of Thailand THEN come back. If you had a Myanmar visa in your possession, surely you could have left Thailand at Phu Nam Ron and gone over to say Dawei?

Although, in light of what I just read over on the article on AECnews linked to one of these threads, Phu Nam Ron is apparently not even stamping in legitimate visa holders? Hmm....well sorry, but I just can't keep up anymore. Every few hours the law changes again. I suspect though that in a few days or so, everything will be more or less back to normal, except that there might be some new guidelines, or rather enforcement of existing guidelines put into effect.

As a legitimate border crossing, Phu Nam Ron should be admitting all travellers with visas and visa-exempt ones who are not visa runners.

[Tomtomtom69]

What amazes me is that there actually foreigners living in Thailand on visa exempts only.

Who in their right mind could be bothered having to go to a border every 30 days to stamp in and out. That is no life.

Does anyone know anybody who actually does this?

I don't get why anyone would.

A trip to your local immigration office every 90 days VS a visa run every month???

seems like a no brainer to me

When I first came here, many years ago, and under the age of 50, border runs were just a way of life if you wanted to be here for extended periods of time. Use to hop on the special border runs buses for the trip. Wasn't too expensive, met some very interesting people, and read a book or the news papers. The buses were quite comfortable. It may have been against the law, but it wasn't enforced. I'd mix it up with trips to neighboring countries. Great way to explore this part of the world.

I understand that, but especially back then and even now to some extent, it isn't too difficult to get say a non-B multi entry visa, at least from your home country or another western country. Back in the day, 15-20 years ago you could have probably received one just for owning a condo or for meeting friends, nowadays you or your boss writes a letter specifying the reasons why you need to come to Thailand. OK, so you only get 90 days on each stay but can come and go at will during a period of 1 year.

If married, a non-O multi entry does the same thing.

Tourist visas also allow longer stays and cut down on the amount of travelling required, and there are also 2 and 3 entry ones.

Incorrect, starting about 2 years ago most of the embassies will not issue a multiple entry non-B valid for 12 months. They will issue instead a 3 month single entry Non B. That can be extended at local immigration for 12 months. One of the main requirements for that is having a work permit.

So it's not like it used to be, i can tell you that much.

Unless you know of some loophole i've missed in which case please PM me

In western countries they will. In regional countries they won't.

In Australia, the USA, Europe etc. most Thai consular offices WILL issue them, but you need the right paperwork.

In SE Asia, only Penang will issue one, but then only with a valid work permit.

[Soutpeel]

I am completely legal and always have been. But I have the distinct feeling that I am not really wanted/welcome here; only tolerated. More friendly countries allow their expats ownership of a small plot of land and house, and allow permanent residency for retirees that meet certain financial soundness tests. None of that here. I am married to a wonderful Thai woman and have made my life here, but having brought all my marbles in with no avenue to permanent residency, leaves me with a feeling of insecurity I can't shake.

I understand there is permanent residency, but it requires three years of continuous work with a work permit and I ama retired, so that is not an option. I can speak Thai, but am simply too old to learn to read and write it, so citizenship isn't going to happen either. I guess it is just the way it is. If I had it to do all again, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't be here.

Name me the counties that gives legal right of abode to retiree's ie PR ? there are not many.....

further go and look and see how many countries even let expats in on the basis of retirement a handful

And once you review all the terms / condtions and finanical requirements come back and tell me the deal retirees get in Thailand is so bad

[dutchisaan]

The only way to end this madness is for immediate reciprocation from western nations to make the sons and daughters of the Thai elite start visa running - with clear doubts over their re-entry being cast. Once these little darlings have been forced to leave their luxury dwellings to flit off to Calais or other migrant infested hellholes with no real idea when or if they will be allowed to return, there will be an awakening.

So funny, Then I guess Thailand in reciprocation of that should stop all visa exempt entries and make it harder to get a simple tourist visa, same as the West does.

Make us submit an application then wait 2-3 months to get an appointment to be advised if you will or will not get a visa but they still keep the $100 you paid for the visa application if you get a visa or not.

Some of you guys are so funny and dont realize how easy we have things. WE can simply decide today to go to Thailand and get on a plane. A Thai has to plan months in advance and jump through major hoops and prove they will return to Thailand. First time I took my wife to the USA with me it took several months to get her a visa.

Totally true, developed countries have implemented more restrictive immigration systems and tough screening for the travelers.

It's absolutely true also that what you're doing in Thailand (long term tourism because you love the country so much) you cannot do in Europe, US, Australia.

However, you can do long term tourism at less hassle and less cost in Cambodia, Phillippines, etc, as some people are starting to notice.

So there are two types of posters: some that compare Thailand to the West: "Oh, look at the immigration rules in the US, why should Thailand be any different.

And others that say: "Why is Thailand doing these crackdowns when Cambodia or Phillipines treat their guests nicer?"

The first ones have a similar way of thinking to: "Central Bangkok 300,000 baht per square meter is veeeery cheappp. Look at Singapore or New York or Hong Kong."

Excuse me, but if I wanted to pay New York prices I'd go to New York. Bangkok is not New York.

And Thailand is not Schengen.

You ate right!

But you are no Erasmus!!

[kekalot]

Although, in light of what I just read over on the article on AECnews linked to one of these threads, Phu Nam Ron is apparently not even stamping in legitimate visa holders? Hmm....well sorry, but I just can't keep up anymore. Every few hours the law changes again. I suspect though that in a few days or so, everything will be more or less back to normal, except that there might be some new guidelines, or rather enforcement of existing guidelines put into effect.

As a legitimate border crossing, Phu Nam Ron should be admitting all travellers with visas and visa-exempt ones who are not visa runners.

yeah, nope. they wouldn't let me out in Phu Nam Ron.

I never used the visa waiver 30 days that I could receive and only went to Phu Nam Ron once 2 months ago.

my visa was expiring on the 17th.. and I am going back home in 7 weeks or so.

my options were:

1. train/bus/minivan to Laos, or Malaysia (long drive, 35$ USD needed at border. etc)

2. quickly buying to fly out from Don Mueang on the cheap

3. extending my visa for 1900 baht in Hua Hin and then have to do something for the last 20 or so days.

I am flying out to Kuala Lumpur round trip for 3200 baht tomorrow morning, back at 2pm.