Electrocuted in the shower by a lightening strike?

[blackcab]

During a recent thunderstorm my wife didn't want to take a shower. She was frightened of being electrocuted by a lightening strike.

I've read that this is possible and that in rare cases it has happened - however in Thailand all the water pipes are plastic.

What's the expert opinion on this?

[richard_smith237]

It depends on your electrics, grounding, water piping etc... your Wife's idea that she shouldn't take a shower in a Thunderstorm is probably a bit of an urban myth (or rural !), but borne of the common sense that electricity / lightening and water are not a healthy mix.

I'd guess that its unlikely, but not impossible.

If in doubt shower in Wellies and Marigolds !

[Crossy]

In the event of a direct hit to your (steel) roof structure or the incoming supply it is quite possible for any 'earthed' metalwork or appliances to reach dangerous voltages. Although your pipes are plastic, what about your shower hose, many are metallised plastic and do conduct electricity albeit poorly.

Whilst it is a very rare event, it cannot hurt to avoid using the shower, your landline phone or wearing headphones whilst charging your mobile phone during any close by flash-and-bang events.

Have a look here http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/15/health/15real.html?_r=0

[dddave]

Most "Hong Nam" facilities upcountry where most Thais grew up are pretty flimsy and I sure kids are admonished from a young age to never go into one during an intense storm. Not just danger from lightning but falling limbs as well.

Such fears inculcated into a child usually last well into adulthood.

[Pib]

Every creditable story I've heard regarding electrocution in a shower is due to a faulty water heater (or other electrical device or outlet in the bathing/shower area) causing a short circuit short which the individual become part of. Could electrocution in the shower be caused by a lightning strike? Sure, if it was a really, really close or direct strike on the bathing/shower area...or the lightning caused a failure/short of the water heater and other conditions were right to allow a flow of electricity through the body. And if the water heater/the electrical device is not grounded and/or a Residual Current Device then conditions are made much more favorable for possible electrocution.

Now could a lightning bolt strike occurring really close to your shower, especially if the bathing/shower area is outside your residence, cause electrocution?. Of course it could. Just like getting hit by a lightning bolt on a golf course, under a tree, etc....and the lightning bolt may not directly hit you but get close enough to still send plenty of amps through the body. But when you start talking this kind of death from lightning you are talking a rare event---but rare events seem to get a lot of media attention many times.

Electrical safety is just a slogan or an after-thought in many Thai homes and buildings. Kinda like many of the unsafe practices we see occurring in Thailand every day....overloaded vehicles, riding 5 folks per motorcycle, electrical wiring that would scare Steven King, etc...etc....etc.

[RichCor]

Usually you worry only if you're somehow in danger of become part of the circuit path.

But lighting strikes are going go push a lot of electrons, and pathing is anything but predictable with very high voltage.

People (usually inexperienced boyscouts) have been killed when taking shelter under tree cover and the tree taking a direct hit. They weren't necessary part of the circuit path, but the amount of energy being dissipated took multiple paths, so included them.

We had one case of a young teen electrocuted after rushing out into an open field to extinguish a grass fire created when an overhead high-tension high-voltage cable slacked enough to touch ground. He was electrocuted not my the wire, but by taking a large step a distance away from the wire. The ground where we was standing had a higher potential then the next place he stepped, causing him to become part of the grounded circuit. It was said that if he had frog hopped (both feet at once) he probably would have been able to move out of the potential fault area and survived.

So I guess the question is, what potential do have in your own shower.

[farmerjo]

Off topic a little but on lightening,using computer and tv on wifi from fibre optic cable.

Dangerous?

[balo]

I never shower myself during a heavy thunderstorm . Better to be safe than sorry . But in Thailand you can get electrocuted even when the sun is shining, Due to poor workmanship.

[tolsti]

It depends on your electrics, grounding, water piping etc... your Wife's idea that she shouldn't take a shower in a Thunderstorm is probably a bit of an urban myth (or rural !), but borne of the common sense that electricity / lightening and water are not a healthy mix.

I'd guess that its unlikely, but not impossible.

If in doubt shower in Wellies and Marigolds !

You mean that people don't?....

[Pib]

Off topic a little but on lightening,using computer and tv on wifi from fibre optic cable.

Dangerous?

Generally no if it's truly fiber optic cable since only specialized fiber optics cable may have some metallic sheathing to add strength/shielding. Generally there is no metal components/shielding in a typical fiber optics cable which is just carrying a signal via light....no metal...no way for it to carry/conduct a lightning strike into your house.

Now were I say "if it's truly fiber optics cable" I mean if it's not really cable TV cable like True has which provides cable internet and/or TV. True is trying to blur the picture now by even calling they cable TV/internet service "fiber" when in fact it's not fiber optics. The TrueVisions/TrueOnline Cable TV/internet (a.k.a., DOCSIS) service is provided on a RF coaxial cable consisting of a metal center conductor and outer metal conductor....the trunk line running around the sois is like a half-inch in diameter RF coaxial ...and then a normal size RF coaxial cable runs from a tap on that line into your house/settop boxes/cable modem. Since coaxial cable consisting of metal conductors, it can carry lightning into your residence...but they do include lightning isolators/protection on the cable TV/internet line which does its best to shunt an lightning strike to ground.

I expect True gets away with calling their cable TV/internet "fiber" by saying the RF coaxial trunk line does hook into another trunk line some where upstream....so part of the system is fiber.

[bankruatsteve]

Near lighting strikes are very rare (for the "average" person) - but you can bet the folks that have had them will take extreme measures when lighting is in the vicinity. There is NO protection for direct or very near strike for any sensitive electronics (IE things that would suffer from static electricity). MOV's might help for surges down the lines but unplugging stuff will also do the same.

[Pib]

One time the wife and I were driving through Texas at night on our way to Denver...going by the Dallas-Ft Worth area...it was raining cats and dogs....lightning struck the road directly ahead of us...way less than 100 meters ahead of us. When the lightning bolt struck the wet road it spread out like you were pouring water on a floor. We saw the lightning hit the road...a millisecond later we heard the deafening thunder. I'm pretty sure our hearts stopped or at least skipped a few beats...not from being electrically shocked but from the shock (fear) it created in us....we were convinced at the time that only the car's rubber tires saved us even though they were wet as heck from the downpour of rain. And believe it or not during the day we stopped at a gas station to fill up the car...the gas pump area was covered with a roof...while filling up the car it began to hail...golf ball sized hail that lasted a few minutes....we go totally lucky in needing to fill up with gas at that point in time and being under the roofed area...otherwise the car would have been dinged up pretty bad...maybe broke the windows. Texas weather can be most unpredictable....Georgia weather and storms get pretty wild too.

[bankruatsteve]

^Yeah. My only experience with a direct hit was when I was driving my new 1971 Dodge Charger on I90 in S. Dakota and BANG. At first I thought the engine blew up and was expecting the hood to pop open. After a few seconds, I realized OK we are still running and outside of my wife's hair being frizzed up everything seemed normal. Well, except the stereo wasn't playing anymore and some dash lights that used to be on weren't. Next day took it into the shop and the antennae was frizzled as well as most of the electronics. How it didn't take out the diodes on the alternator remains a mystery.

[RichCor]

Off topic a little but on lightening,using computer and tv on wifi from fibre optic cable.

Dangerous?

Generally no if it's truly fiber optic cable since only specialized fiber optics cable may have some metallic sheathing to add strength/shielding. Generally there is no metal components/shielding in a typical fiber optics cable which is just carrying a signal via light....no metal...no way for it to carry/conduct a lightning strike into your house.

<...>

As most of Thailand's FTTH is being run overhead you'll probably find the "self-supporting fiber optic cable" is composed of two parts, the protected fiber optic bundle and a "messenger" containing a stranded metal cable used to attach and carry the majority of weight between poles. The messenger isn't grounded or otherwise terminated so shouldn't be an issue.

[Pib]

Yea...just like the messenger cable on the cable TV/internet coaxial cabling and phone line cabling....basically used to structurally increase the strength of the cable and provide attachment/hanging support...the messenger cable is just used to support the cable and not grounded as you mentioned....it acts like a clothes hanger.

[blackcab]

Most "Hong Nam" facilities upcountry where most Thais grew up are pretty flimsy and I sure kids are admonished from a young age to never go into one during an intense storm. Not just danger from lightning but falling limbs as well.

Such fears inculcated into a child usually last well into adulthood.

You never know - I could be married to a hiso Chinese-Thai who was born in Bangkok.

From what I understand many members are. I often pass them when I'm going to play contract bridge at the Polo Club.

[sandyf]

Usually you worry only if you're somehow in danger of become part of the circuit path.

But lighting strikes are going go push a lot of electrons, and pathing is anything but predictable with very high voltage.

People (usually inexperienced boyscouts) have been killed when taking shelter under tree cover and the tree taking a direct hit. They weren't necessary part of the circuit path, but the amount of energy being dissipated took multiple paths, so included them.

It is extremely unlikely that anyone would be electrocuted from lightning inside a building, more chance of injury from building damage.

When I was at school, 3 lads from my class were watching the cricket when a storm started. They took shelter under a tree and the tree was struck by lightning. When they were found they were naked without a hair on the body, only one survived. When he came out of hospital he said the shock came out of the ground, that his feet went on fire and then his head exploded.

Expert opinion was that he was wearing more clothes than the others and being soaking wet provided an alternative path just enough to save him.

He would have been about 13 at the time and as far as I am aware he is still alive which would make him 68.

[Pib]

[Crossy]

The bottom right diagram made my eyes water

[bankruatsteve]

The bottom right diagram made my eyes water

Were you a POW and tortured in WWII?

[Crossy]

The bottom right diagram made my eyes water

Were you a POW and tortured in WWII?

Close. My Malaysian / Chinese ex. had a TENS machine she liked to use to 'spice things up', bloody hurt sometimes

[Pib]

The bottom right diagram made my eyes water

Originally being a farm boy the bottom right diagram is how some many farm animals such as cows out in a field get killed....not a direct strike to the cow, but just a close by ground strike that can kill all animals within a certain radius of the strike. My first cousin back in Virginia lost several cows this way last summer...fortunately he had insurance for farm accidents such as this which covered around 50% of the cows' worth.

[BB1950]

Many people wrongly think PVC piping doesn't conduct electricity. Rightly so for the PVC, but the line usually contains water which contains minerals. That's what conducts electricity which can cause electrocution!

Water and electrics do not mix whatever the source of the electricity may be!

Many have died from electrified water!

By the way, they use distilled water to wash electrical lines and insulators as it doesn't contain any minerals.

[Artisi]

The bottom right diagram made my eyes water

It would make more than your eyes water ... after the event you could sign castrato without too much effort.

[sometimewoodworker]

This topic made me think of something. I know a guy who used the metalwork inside the house concrete frame to attach earth wires whilst the house was being built instead of the usual 'rod' method. Obviously the metal roof frame is welded to the uprights metalwork. So, it the roof took a hit a huge amount of power will travel to every earthed appliance in the house, including permanently connected showers..

It would make no difference if you use that method (AKA Ufer ground) or rods in the ground if you get a strike very close to you, much less hitting the house, you have a good chance of frying most connected appliances.

I fact the guy you knew had a much better grounding system than any number of rods in the ground could ever make. Concrete is a better conductor of electricity than earth so if you consider the area of the foundations will be measured in Sq meters and a ground rod in Sq cm it is easy to understand why Ufer grounding is better, cheaper, and more reliable than copper rods in the ground.

Any one building in concrete should use a Ufer ground.

[Crossy]

Indeed ^^^, the measured ground resistance of our roof structure is significantly lower than our purpose driven copper-clad steel ground rod, so yes, we have the building steel in addition to the rod.

We actually had a direct hit to the roof a couple of years back, blew off some ridge tiles and fried a fair bit of electronics. We have since added more surge protection but no more direct hits to test it.

One caveat, the MEA/PEA regs don't mention Ufer (concrete clad electrode) grounds, your inspector is going to want to see a rod even if it's less effective than the Ufer.

[pkspeaker]

about a month ago i met this German woman, she was wearing a sock on one of her hands and I asked what that was about; she said that while she was in the shower she got electrocuted and her hand burned severely and she passed out and woke up in the hospital-they told her she was lucky to be alive. She was going back to germany soon so that her hand could be replaced by a prosthetic as she no longer had any use of it. I asked her if she had been electrocuted by the showers water heater or if it had been lightning, she said she did not know because she could not remember what happened just prior to the accident.