'Defrauded by my wife and criminals in Thailand' - BBC special report

[micmichd]

It's ridiculous.

This man might be a gangster himself, but nobody here asks how he actually made his money in UK.

Most posters here prefer to put the blame on his wife instead. It's maybe easier, and it serves all prejudices well. I would like to hear his wife's version, too.

But he prefers to misuse his son for an "appeal" on YouTube...

[green job]

It's ridiculous.

This man might be a gangster himself, but nobody here asks how he actually made his money in UK.

Most posters here prefer to put the blame on his wife instead. It's maybe easier, and it serves all prejudices well. I would like to hear his wife's version, too.

But he prefers to misuse his son for an "appeal" on YouTube...

Yep Always two sides to a story.

[micmichd]

G

Just another example of never buying property in Thailand and never Invest any Money in anything here ...

Yes you are so right

Never say never.

If you're getting old you might be happy with a family in Thailand, maybe nobody would care for you at all in Farangistan. So why not invest in the country where you chose to live (and eventually die)?

Many investments in the West fail, too, maybe more than in Thailand.

And be rest-assured there's all kinds of criminals in cleptocratic Farangistan, too.

Edited September 20, 2015 by micmichd

[lostoday]

I still think Thai people and women in general are fine. Most of these scams seem to happen outside Bangkok where old fat guys meet their honey online or in a bar and decide to build a house. Like I said before, if a Thai woman is not throwing herself at you she probably already has a career and will inherit a significant amount of land when her parents pass away. She won't need some old fat guy to take care of her.

I actually live here and most of the time I see it happen to young skinny guys. The young guys meet their honey on line because they are part of the digital generation and scrape together enough money to build her a house. When the lady comes to her senses and realizes you are not a young skinny Korean rock star she gives the young skinny guy the shaft and they usually join the Pattaya Flying club or head off home to write sad missives on Thai Visa.

For those young skinny guys who dropped out of school and may not know my post is a satirical review of the post above it and not really a comment on young skinny guys.

Edited September 20, 2015 by lostoday

[puukao]

This happened to me, I lost 40 million baht. did a gofundme page and raised 50 million baht. now i'm currently trying to lose this 50 to then raise 100!!!!

don't worry mates......the after-life is much longer.....and i have some great beach property.

in my next life i'll create the next GOOG!!!!!

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Yup.... There's always cyberbegging, lol

[Mr Wonderful]

In the circumstances this Guy has been a real Gentleman and i admire his calm and graceful attitude considering what he's lost and been through.

Whilst such cases almost always hit the headlines at some stage and show all the very deep and disturbing tendencies of Thai society, it would be interesting to know what percentage of Expat's suffer in this way in comparison to those that experience good marriage's until their life expiry date comes around. Overall; i would expect such percentage to be on a par with what happens to many Men in their own country's, where whilst the laws are much stronger and Lawyer's much more honest, Men normally end up a lot worse off than their spouse's when things go wrong in the marriage. The difference is that the Wife has the blessing of the Western Courts when she walks away with the stash and there has been no corruption involved at any level.

Most of the marriages in the west are like with like.

Most of the foreigner marriages here are old, fat and bald (ing) with young and slim.

So I'm thinking almost all the old/young marriages are going to fail, unless she's patient enough to wait for him to die.

My wife used to be half my age and slim. Now she is 2/3 my age and half my weight.

[Thaidream]

As I read through these pages, I find some of the comments vile, filled with prejudice and absolutely disgusting. No one deserves to be cheated. The situation the gentleman faced and continues to face is bad enough- but having to listen to some of the drivel on this board makes it worse. So many of you have no idea how Thai people think or react in situations. It is no wonder Thai people think so poorly of Westerners- they are right!

[micmichd]

Many (if not most ) millionaires in the West buy a considerably younger and better-looking Farang woman. There's hypergamy everywhere. And don't think that younger Farang women don't cheat you, with the chauffeur or some other man

And of course, everybody in the West would try to rip off a Thai millionaire in business. You're only successful if you have a "killer instinct" - economy knows no morale.

Edited September 20, 2015 by micmichd

[theguyfromanotherforum]

As I read through these pages, I find some of the comments vile, filled with prejudice and absolutely disgusting. No one deserves to be cheated. The situation the gentleman faced and continues to face is bad enough- but having to listen to some of the drivel on this board makes it worse. So many of you have no idea how Thai people think or react in situations. It is no wonder Thai people think so poorly of Westerners- they are right!

You said that many times, but you refuse to let us know how come you seem to be so enlightened?

Very few people are actually being vile, just realistic. If you are fat and old and you are with a woman 20 years younger chances are she's not with you because she "loves you true". I am absolutely sure I would hear this reality check from my own mother, let alone from a bunch of internet posters.

Edited September 20, 2015 by theguyfromanotherforum

[mydee]

I personally know Ian Rance and Colin Vard and have an intimate knowledge of the whole sorry mess.

The core issue here is not age, size, or whether they should have seen the end result. Good on you clever street wise guys here with crystal balls....it's about all the balls you have.

It is simply about fraud and the collusion of the authorities that are meant to protect you. The cheating, corrupt, scheming authorities. Did you see the "lawyer" who witnessed a signature without the signatory being present. How obscene is this? The Phuket lawyers for Colin who actually forged his signature. The removal of vital evidence by the police....their absolute refusal to allow police reports against their fellow officers and fellow cheats. The lawyer, paid an absolute fortune, who didn't manage to get a single property back....yet alone a stick of furniture. The dissolution of a property company without the main directors knowledge yet alone his consent.

The extent of the fraud and the number of those who colluded is very frightening indeed. The money we are talking about here extends to well over 2 million, yes million, euro. They were both robbed of their properties and it is accepted that the signatories on many documents have been forged. So why are the transactions not put aside by a court, reversed and the properties returned to their rightful owners???

The main issue for me is that not one single person or agency in Phuket or Bangkok said ...stop! This is wrong and needs to be put right. Not a single agency gave any real and genuine help. Note the police chief on the BBC programme who promised help and 4 months later he hasn't lifted a finger. My congratulations to Jonathan Head and the BBC for running this. However the programme concentrated mainly on Ian and Colins story is perhaps more horrifying.

Have you any idea of what it is like to travel to Phuket 50 times to have your case adjourned again, and again and again for no logical reason other than to wear you down with the defendants hoping that you run out of money. The chief justice on Phuket is on record as saying cases must not be adjourned many times and must be heard. Useless....another sheep with no teeth. This is Thai "justice". Have you ever being in a court where the defendant is allowed four pages of evidence to be admitted when Colin is refused a single word? Why did the judge allow, in yet another case, verbal testimony from the defendants and refuse, absolutely refuse, to hear a single word from the plaintiff, Colin.

Both partners are serving jail terms for fraud....in Colins case his partner is serving 17 years. The Phuket judge in the criminal case (seemingly about the only one competent to rule over a case) stated it was fraud that was perpetrated on Colin. In any country in the world the burden of proof in a criminal case is higher than that for a civil case. You would therefore imagine, and perhaps take for granted, that any civil action afterwards would be a formality. It has been anything but for both there victims of appalling crimes.

Shame on you Thailand and all of those who refuse to help and are in a position to do so. Very very few of you uncaring idiots here with little to offer, other than pathetic suggestions and criticism, would have the brains and stamina and courage have stood up to these vile criminals for 5 years now.

When previously posting on this forum, Ian claimed that he had a legal background; working in arbitration in the UK.

He should therefore, be aware of the following legal maxim:

He who comes into equity must come with clean hands

It is often stated that one who comes into equity must come with clean hands (or alternatively, equity will not permit a party to profit by his own wrong). In other words, if you ask for help about the actions of someone else but have acted wrongly, then you do not have clean hands and you may not receive the help you seek.

Ian set up a Thai company, to hold Thai property, with himself holding the majority of the directors voting rights. It would seem that he started this journey by seeking to circumnavigate Thai law, and then squeals when he does not receive justice.

Thank you for that contribution but what has that to do with this situation?

Equity is in fact a creature of the common law system and has no real place in the Thai code. It was essentially a system asking for redress where there was none available under statute and, until the nineteenth century separate Equity Courts existed.. Equity should not be confused with fairness, for example in the Duke of Westminister case Where his Lordship noted that "equity has no place in tax matters"

Nice try though

[phitsanulokjohn]

A fool and his money are easily parted.

Never a truer word spoken.

I rather like Michael Douglas's (who played Gordon Gecko in the movie wall st) version.

A fool and his money were lucky enough to get together in the first place.

[Thaidream]

I have no claim to any more enlightenment than you or anyone else. What is real to you is not necessarily that which is true. You base all your opinions on your Western mindset which is convinced that everything which is superficial- looks, body size etc are what concerns Thai women or Thai people.Thai people do not think that way at all.-they are looking for a stable life and a future Through my 50 years in Thailand I have known many mixed couples. The successful and longer term relationships are built on mutual trust; stability; and a love of Thailand and the Thai people and an acceptance of Thai culture. None of the success or failure had anything to do with the superficial nonsense so many have espoused on this board.

I will say it again- you bring your Western prejudices here to Thailand and try to sell them. It won't work. A decent, polite and loving person never brings up those type of things ard points them out. Those that do, show a lack of self worth and contribute to the Thai belief that many Westerners have no manners. You bring shame on all Westerners and are one of the reasons that Thailand would be much better without you.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

As I read through these pages, I find some of the comments vile, filled with prejudice and absolutely disgusting. No one deserves to be cheated. The situation the gentleman faced and continues to face is bad enough- but having to listen to some of the drivel on this board makes it worse. So many of you have no idea how Thai people think or react in situations. It is no wonder Thai people think so poorly of Westerners- they are right!

You said that many times, but you refuse to let us know how come you seem to be so enlightened?

Very few people are actually being vile, just realistic. If you are fat and old and you are with a woman 20 years younger chances are she's not with you because she "loves you true". I am absolutely sure I would hear this reality check from my own mother, let alone from a bunch of internet posters.

Why don't you get off the fat old thing? It only makes it obvious you have a prejudice against weight and age and has nothing to do with the topic.

If you are so mentally trite to evaluate people based on physical characteristics rather than intellectual or human characteristics it only demeans your status as a human being.

A woman or man who judges a partner based on age or weight is a bimbo or himbo.

Have you not noticed that almost all women/or men are gold diggers and can overlook age and weight for cash in any country?

Homeless and handsome or ugly and rich. Who is going to get the girl?

Simple. Because 99% of young people don't want to be with fat and old. It has nothing do do with intellect and everything to do with nature. As a matter of fact you are the one who doesn't sound intelligent by posting this nonsense and lying to yourself. I see Thai movies and commercials are full of old white fatties? Everyone gets old. No exceptions. If you think you are somehow different then you are the one who lacks any true intelligence. Googling a few abnormalities on internet does not prove your point.

[lostoday]

Simple. Because 99% of young people don't want to be with fat and old. It has nothing do do with intellect and everything to do with nature. As a matter of fact you are the one who doesn't sound intelligent by posting this nonsense and lying to yourself. I see Thai movies and commercials are full of old white fatties? Everyone gets old. No exceptions. If you think you are somehow different then you are the one who lacks any true intelligence. Googling a few abnormalities on internet does not prove your point.

You are seeing something through jealous glasses. I came to Thailand with a big bag of money looking for a lady and I was not disappointed. This has been a consistent theme in all my posts.

I belong to a couple of large groups in Thailand that have many members who have rich husbands and beautiful wives.

The fat old thing does not come into play in Thailand. The poor thing does. Why do you think all the fat old guys come to Thailand as opposed to retiring in the UK? The weather, beer and Buddhism?

It is because the old fat guys are successful at finding young beautiful women in Thailand.

So tell us, why does this make you angry? It does you know and it is obvious it does. So tell us why.

[Linzz]

Knew a guy who was a former cop (retired). Big man who thought he could intimidate everyone, thought he knew everything, and was always right. Meets a girl who is 5 years younger than his youngest daughter, and 1/3 his size. Three months later they are married. Expensive church wedding and reception. Buys a pick up, 2 Honda PCX, thinking of building a house on property her parents own. Then realizes he really can't stand it here, and that every Thai he meets thinks he's a total "buffalo". Sells everything - at a major loss - takes wife and moves back to US. Total time in Thailand 6 months.

Goes back home with wife in tow. He buys nice land and house. She get's Green Card. Two days later she goes to the cops and files charges of "assault" and "abuse" against him. Files for divorce. She get's everything, and is now worth about 5 million U.S. He now owns nothing, and living off his cop retirement fund.

The sad part is, both me and my Thai wife tried to warn him. My wife knows the girl. But he swore she loved him, and his big 9-1/2 inches. From what my wife told me, she said the girl did NOT like sex with him, because it always hurt her, and she had at least one other lover on the side who could really please her. After an email from, detailing everything that happened, I sent one back with just 3 words - "You were warned!" I haven't heard from him since.

Was it really as simple as that? "she gets everything...she now has $5m and now he owns nothing" I'm not familiar with US law but in most western countries there is equal 50-50 sharing of matrimonial property written into law regardless of allegations. What happened here?

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Simple. Because 99% of young people don't want to be with fat and old. It has nothing do do with intellect and everything to do with nature. As a matter of fact you are the one who doesn't sound intelligent by posting this nonsense and lying to yourself. I see Thai movies and commercials are full of old white fatties? Everyone gets old. No exceptions. If you think you are somehow different then you are the one who lacks any true intelligence. Googling a few abnormalities on internet does not prove your point.

You are seeing something through jealous glasses. I came to Thailand with a big bag of money looking for a lady and I was not disappointed. This has been a consistent theme in all my posts.

I belong to a couple of large groups in Thailand that have many members who have rich husbands and beautiful wives.

The fat old thing does not come into play in Thailand. The poor thing does. Why do you think all the fat old guys come to Thailand as opposed to retiring in the UK? The weather, beer and Buddhism?

It is because the old fat guys are successful at finding young beautiful women in Thailand.

So tell us, why does this make you angry? It does you know and it is obvious it does. So tell us why.

It doesn't make me angry that you purchased your wife. You admit this yourself. I was watching a NBC documentary and they have the same thing in USA. A website arranges long term relationships with wealthy older males. The 19 year old women seem to be genuinely happy that sugar daddy is paying for their education and extra $5000 a month in expenses. Who am I to judge them or you. It is what it is. A transaction. I mean should you be jealous of these guys in USA who obviously have more money than you and can rent a white skinned beautiful and educated woman with no commitments and no fear of losing their fortune? You can do the same thing in USA, I'll find you a link. But no.... You're a slugging it in a third world country. Edited September 20, 2015 by theguyfromanotherforum

[lostoday]

Knew a guy who was a former cop (retired). Big man who thought he could intimidate everyone, thought he knew everything, and was always right. Meets a girl who is 5 years younger than his youngest daughter, and 1/3 his size. Three months later they are married. Expensive church wedding and reception. Buys a pick up, 2 Honda PCX, thinking of building a house on property her parents own. Then realizes he really can't stand it here, and that every Thai he meets thinks he's a total "buffalo". Sells everything - at a major loss - takes wife and moves back to US. Total time in Thailand 6 months.

Goes back home with wife in tow. He buys nice land and house. She get's Green Card. Two days later she goes to the cops and files charges of "assault" and "abuse" against him. Files for divorce. She get's everything, and is now worth about 5 million U.S. He now owns nothing, and living off his cop retirement fund.

The sad part is, both me and my Thai wife tried to warn him. My wife knows the girl. But he swore she loved him, and his big 9-1/2 inches. From what my wife told me, she said the girl did NOT like sex with him, because it always hurt her, and she had at least one other lover on the side who could really please her. After an email from, detailing everything that happened, I sent one back with just 3 words - "You were warned!" I haven't heard from him since.

Was it really as simple as that? "she gets everything...she now has $5m and now he owns nothing" I'm not familiar with US law but in most western countries there is equal 50-50 sharing of matrimonial property written into law regardless of allegations. What happened here?

My wife told me if I ever wanted to see the kids again she would get 100%. Legal? No. Could she have moved to an area where I could not follow (because of work)? Yes. Depends on the woman, lawyer and the amount of time and money one wants to commit to fight. (Hel hath no fury.....)

Edited September 20, 2015 by lostoday

[hugh2121]

criminal energy is not only in Thailand, happened around the world

But not aided and abetted by the "legal" system

[lostoday]

criminal energy is not only in Thailand, happened around the world

But not aided and abetted by the "legal" system

Maybe someone would comment about Australian family courts and law. I've heard a lot of stories. Worse than Thailand from what I was told. Maybe just guys talking..........

[Linzz]

MaeJoMTB you really are a heartless #$%#$%. God forbid anything bad should happen to you- but I expect that like all Farang Bashers on here, you'd still expect your case to be unique. Cut the guy some slack, this could happen to any of us. At least be a bit more sensitive and diplomatic when posting your scathing attacks on what many would see as a victim of crime.

No, mine is exactly the same, she would strip me bare in an instant, if she were ever given the chance.

Yes, we've had kids together too, doesn't mean a thing to her.

We aren't hansum, they don't love us, they just want our money ........ so dangle it, without giving it.

Took me about 4 weeks in Thailand to work out what was happening.

Problem is, these guys never listen, don't know why.

You mean defraud you even with your god like Adonis Greek body? Or do you mean strip you bare because of your Adonis Greek body?

[quandow]

That's why I only rent, and I'm NOT talking about property.

[Tanlic]

No way are we getting the full story here

Wife jailed? moneylenders? forged signatures.?

Was she gambling? did she borrow money and couldn't pay it back?

Did she illegally sell off his property to pay off debts.

If she did how can they possibly prove that she was forced to do it

Is the property with the money lenders now?

Or did some innocent person spend his hard earned money to buy it in what he thought was a legit deal?.....if so why should he lose out?

Assuming the police and the courts are in a position to do something without knowing the whole story is total unfair.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Tanlic

[Tanlic]

That's why I only rent, and I'm NOT talking about property.

Love It

[Linzz]

It's just another sad story involving farang w/ thai lady. It will never stop. 1000's of online articles, dosens of books, zillion posts on TV, it means nothing.

"Stupid farang" (their words not mine!). We're not at home. Their culture. Their rules. Their corruption. Accept that from day one, keep a low profile and you're pretty safe.

Thai's also defraud each other too. My wife's sister's daughter used her mother's credit card to buy a car for her friend at work. Now the "friend" has disappeared, leaving her, or more expressly her mother, with the bill. Now my wife is approached by her sister to help out. She did with her own money from her own account, she was too embarrassed to tell me at the time because she knew what I would say. I am very busy teaching my wife how to say no to family. Difficult. Had another application the other day. Didn't happen, think my wife is learning. Problem not peculiar to Thailand though.

[khunpa]

Personally, I would have no problems with buying a house in my wife's name. I would also have no worries of putting all my money into her account. Why? Well, because when I went bankrupt and lost everything in 2012, she was the person that helped me through it and did everything for our family not to fall apart. She helped not only financially, but also helped me out of a deep depression and helped me get refocused and back on track.

Not all Thai-women are bad people trying to take your money. The money my family has now, was built on the money my wife borrowed in the bank and invested into our family business, when it needed it the most. We are now back on track and that is 100% due to her and her willingness take risks for the family to survive financially. My wife has never requested a house, a car or anything like that. We both have money in our account and can buy what we want. She will however never buy anything expensive without letting me agree on it first.

I think the video is a really good way to show that the law and justice system is really bad and corrupt in this country - because it really is. The legal and justice system in Thailand is both rotten and corrupt.

However, I also think it is important to note that not all Thai-women are bad gold-diggers and there is no general rule (besides common sense) for how to live and survive in Thailand. Unless of course you only hang out in Nana Plaza, then you could maybe set some general rules ;-) But Thailand and Thai-women is just so much more than only that!

[MaeJoMTB]

Knew a guy who was a former cop (retired). Big man who thought he could intimidate everyone, thought he knew everything, and was always right. Meets a girl who is 5 years younger than his youngest daughter, and 1/3 his size. Three months later they are married. Expensive church wedding and reception. Buys a pick up, 2 Honda PCX, thinking of building a house on property her parents own. Then realizes he really can't stand it here, and that every Thai he meets thinks he's a total "buffalo". Sells everything - at a major loss - takes wife and moves back to US. Total time in Thailand 6 months.

Goes back home with wife in tow. He buys nice land and house. She get's Green Card. Two days later she goes to the cops and files charges of "assault" and "abuse" against him. Files for divorce. She get's everything, and is now worth about 5 million U.S. He now owns nothing, and living off his cop retirement fund.

The sad part is, both me and my Thai wife tried to warn him. My wife knows the girl. But he swore she loved him, and his big 9-1/2 inches. From what my wife told me, she said the girl did NOT like sex with him, because it always hurt her, and she had at least one other lover on the side who could really please her. After an email from, detailing everything that happened, I sent one back with just 3 words - "You were warned!" I haven't heard from him since.

Was it really as simple as that? "she gets everything...she now has $5m and now he owns nothing" I'm not familiar with US law but in most western countries there is equal 50-50 sharing of matrimonial property written into law regardless of allegations. What happened here?

Hardly any western countries get a 50/50 split if you have children.

Children entitle her to the family home free and clear (yes, if there's an outstanding home loan he has to pay it, without living there), plus enough money to raise them alone.

Which usually amounts to everything the man has.

[villagefarang]

If you start off by trying to outsmart the system by doing an end run around the laws of the land, then I am not sure how you justify asking for sympathy when your little ruse fails. If you want to play cowboy then you have to accept that you may be outplayed by another player. Trusting someone who says they know how to circumvent the laws is a pretty stupid move in my opinion.

[sendintheclowns]

I'm very interested in reading more about property scams, less about the involvement of Thai wives./ women.

My problem is not my wife ( who is a westerner).

I will try to start a new forum topic, hoping to see posts about your ( or friends) experiences with recent developments in the application of regulations for

-apartment leases,

- the condo 49% rule being abused by developers

and so on.

I have a case in Supreme Court at the moment, appealing against a judgement which cancelled my entire lease and against a loan shark who seized land and building, under dubious circumstances.

As I am a relatively recent member, would appreciate knowing if there is such a forum already?

[JoopJoop]

. PS Thais are born liars and cheats because in their mind lying and cheating is normal because that is what their elite have done to them all their lives FACT.

So why are you here.......?

Or are you another one of those who have never lived here but know it all...

Er, I actually agree with him.

My wife often has employees stealing from her and they deny it at all costs even though I have irrefutable proof they lie and steal.

I trust my wife without reservation but I don't trust any other Thai...that's her family included. They don't need my money, they have enough.

Hence, as I posted recently, 2.5% is all I have here and I live off my wife's THB.

I don't trust any Farang here either which is probably why I don't have any friends haha.

That is the daftest fing I have read in a long time...... ..................

YOU reckon every Thai is a thief and a liar except ONE, your lady... .....

I did not explicitly state that "every Thai is a thief and a liar except ONE, your lady."

I will not trust any other Thai or Farang when it comes to currency other than my wife, brothers, and three of my closest friends (not residing in Thailand).

My wealth stays in my home country and will benefit a child or two should we have them.

Foreign financial risk in this country is too great and effective legal recourse too lethargic, ineffective, and corrupt in my view to invest here. I don't even have a bank account in this country. My wife makes the money for our lives here. She understands and agrees with what is our joint decision. Why convert a strong currency to a weaker one in a politically unstable, non transparent country where there is no rule of law comparable to that of our home (developed) countries. If you do so, then at least limit your exposure, unlike Ian's case and that of so many others.