ATM debit card fraud - skimming - Thailand

[louse1953]

The question is home bank or Thai bank,it makes a huge difference.

[louse1953]

UK Banks protect you - this has happened before. NatWest in the UK refunded my money after I signed an Affidavit.

I have two Thai Bank Accounts - one with a small amount of money in it which I use at ATM's. I also try to be covert as possible when entering my pin, I also am quite selective of the ATM's I use and check for foreign appearing objects.

What,looking over your shoulder.

[louse1953]

Have been using ATM's in Thailand and surrounding countries for years and never had that problem.

So what does that mean,it didn't happen.It is rife in Thailand.

[louse1953]

I have not had this problem YET !!

I always use an ATM located inside a bank.

Do Thai banks cover if it does happen? Bangkok bank??

Apparently Bangkok Bank will pay out eventually after court case,if they catch the thief.Then you only get a % divided equally amonst claiments.Luckily my Aust insurance paid out well before the court case.I had to get an email from Bangkok Bank to insurance company to say i wouldn't double dip,so i didn't follow it up.

[louse1953]

Card fraud such as the OP experienced happens all over the world....some countries are worst than others since law enforcement is weak/selective. OP needs to deal with his card-issuing bank in hopefully getting the money credited back to his account. Don't worry about a Thai police report...they really can't help you and this type of white collar crime gets little of their attention until they happen to bust a gain of card scammers every once in a while which they well publicize. Deal with your card-issuing bank on the issue.

Of course you need a police report or how else what are you gunna show your bank.You also can get ATM camera footage,but this takes a bit of chasing up in Thailand.

[louse1953]

THE POLICE HERE WILL DO NOTHING UNLESS YOU GREASE THERE PALM,AND I THINK WHAT YOU LOST WILL NOT COVER IT.

Well that is BS.They helped me a lot and no money changed hands,gave me the cd to copy with the ATM footage.This was soi 9 in Patts,i was pleasantly surprised.Wouldn't let me back to thump the thief who they had caught already.

[louse1953]

Bangkok Bank offers an ATM card with a chip in it. I don't think it can be skimmed. The downside is that it only works at Bangkok Bank ATM's.

Wrong, I have had my Debit Card and Credit Card 'skimmed' both had 'chips' here and in Europe. They were issued through the HSBC and backed by Visa. Visa cover the losses then they try to recoup the money, I got all my money back immediately. If they can prove you 'misused' your card they will not, you have to sign a letter stating you had the card in your possession and not divulged the PIN number to anyone.

So if you have Cards make sure they are Visa backed, not sure if Masrecard covers you.

I have a Kasikorn account with a 'chip and pin' Visa Debit Card, when I use it at Big C I sign the slip, they don't check the signature against the one on the card, no Pin Number and don't ask for any identification, little wonder there are so many fraud eland cases of Cards in Thailand.

I have not seen a BKK Bank with a chip as yet. And I recently renewed a damaged card.

You should know Thailand by now,you have to ask.They actually told me after my scam.

[louse1953]

For those of your with the Bangkok Bank Be1st Smart "chipped," repeat, chipped debit card, which at least use to only work in Bangkok Bank ATMs since Bangkok Bank was the first to completely upgrade their ATMs to the Europay, Mastercard, Visa (EMV) capability (fancy name for using the chip standard), have you been able to use that card in any other Thai bank ATMs? Like maybe Krungsri Bank ATMs which are suppose to be well along in upgrading their ATMs to be EMV capable.

Not concerned if you can use your Bangkok Bank chipped debit cards at store checkouts because almost all POS machines were upgraded years ago to handle chipped cards...plus the magnetic stripe still on the Be1st chipped card can supposedly still be used in non-EMV POS machines for "purchases only" if needed. Just interested if you have been able to get your Be1st chipped debit card to work in any other Thai bank ATMs.

No.

[Berkshire]

Bangkok Bank offers an ATM card with a chip in it. I don't think it can be skimmed. The downside is that it only works at Bangkok Bank ATM's.

Wrong, I have had my Debit Card and Credit Card 'skimmed' both had 'chips' here and in Europe. They were issued through the HSBC and backed by Visa. Visa cover the losses then they try to recoup the money, I got all my money back immediately. If they can prove you 'misused' your card they will not, you have to sign a letter stating you had the card in your possession and not divulged the PIN number to anyone.

So if you have Cards make sure they are Visa backed, not sure if Masrecard covers you.

I have a Kasikorn account with a 'chip and pin' Visa Debit Card, when I use it at Big C I sign the slip, they don't check the signature against the one on the card, no Pin Number and don't ask for any identification, little wonder there are so many fraud eland cases of Cards in Thailand.

I have not seen a BKK Bank with a chip as yet. And I recently renewed a damaged card.

You should know Thailand by now,you have to ask.They actually told me after my scam.

Actually, when I went in to get a new card due to the old one being worn out, the gal told me that the new chip card was available...but she recommended against it as it would only work in BKK Bank ATM's. I told her that was fine as I only used BKK Bank ATM's. This was about 4-5 months ago.

[dageurreotype]

Bangkok Bank offers an ATM card with a chip in it. I don't think it can be skimmed. The downside is that it only works at Bangkok Bank ATM's.

Wrong, I have had my Debit Card and Credit Card 'skimmed' both had 'chips' here and in Europe. They were issued through the HSBC and backed by Visa. Visa cover the losses then they try to recoup the money, I got all my money back immediately. If they can prove you 'misused' your card they will not, you have to sign a letter stating you had the card in your possession and not divulged the PIN number to anyone.

So if you have Cards make sure they are Visa backed, not sure if Masrecard covers you.

I have a Kasikorn account with a 'chip and pin' Visa Debit Card, when I use it at Big C I sign the slip, they don't check the signature against the one on the card, no Pin Number and don't ask for any identification, little wonder there are so many fraud eland cases of Cards in Thailand.

I have not seen a BKK Bank with a chip as yet. And I recently renewed a damaged card.

I've got one, a few months ago. Just ask for it.

I was automatically given one when re opening an account. So seems those who already have cards can easily swap them for chipped ones.

[Pib]

Bangkok Bank prefers to issued the chipped card since it's more secure due to the chip, although it can only be used in Bangkok Bank/EMV-capable ATMs, and it incurs a Bt300 annual fee compared to the Bt200 annual fee for their non-chipped card.

I still prefer their non-chipped debit card simply because I'm not limited to Bangkok Bank ATMs. Yea, I'm trading off some security for more convenience. Heck, just this Saturday morning when pulling my body up to a Bangkok Bank ATM it was inop...so I just slid over and used the K-bank ATM next to it...or I could have used the SCB ATM...three ATMs side by side. Without being able to use another bank's ATM I would have needed to get back in the car and go find another Bangkok Bank ATM somewhere which was probably several KMs away in a mall.

[Berkshire]

Bangkok Bank prefers to issued the chipped card since it's more secure due to the chip, although it can only be used in Bangkok Bank/EMV-capable ATMs, and it incurs a Bt300 annual fee compared to the Bt200 annual fee for their non-chipped card.

I still prefer their non-chipped debit card simply because I'm not limited to Bangkok Bank ATMs. Yea, I'm trading off some security for more convenience. Heck, just this Saturday morning when pulling my body up to a Bangkok Bank ATM it was inop...so I just slid over and used the K-bank ATM next to it...or I could have used the SCB ATM...three ATMs side by side. Without being able to use another bank's ATM I would have needed to get back in the car and go find another Bangkok Bank ATM somewhere which was probably several KMs away in a mall.

True...although I haven't had any problems finding BKK Bank ATMs. They seem to be all over the place.

[t8769]

I only withdraw cash from an ATM that is physically inside the bank, to avoid skimming.

Its so common now, that I've gone back to cash, got tired of having to make claims and getting my card replaced.

[BaldPlumber]

Lost $400 US the first time and $1100 US this time. Going old school now and will only use 1 single card... Kasikorn Bank, the only local bank (as far as I know) that allows you to reduce the withdrawal/transfer/purchase limits to zero by phone. Whenever I use it, I put the limit I want in.... and then right after I use it, I put the limit back to zero. All other bank accounts are now old school passbook only. Bye bye (cancelled) all other local atm cards. As for my foreign accounts, I have those cards in my safe and am sticking to online banking only now.

How does this work? I have a Kasikorn account and would be interested to know the details.

[ryanhull]

I got scammed last year via an ATM machine in a mall...

Same again today, logged into my bank to find 5000 + 180 Bhat down from yesterday... strange thing is I used the same ATM machine 3 days ago to draw out 3000 Bhat,

Called natwest they refunded me, but considering I cover my pin and check for skimming devices, I am confused. They must have a pad over the keypad?

Lady at natwest although great to refund me wasnt very helpfull, simply said they would contact the Thai police if further investigation is needed, good luck on that one love.

What confuses me more is... they took 5000 bhat and left it at that, surely if they took 5000 succesffully they would then attempt to get more? or are they thinking lets leave it and see if it is not noticed and keep doing it occasionally? Anyway... keep an eye on your account guys, they might just slip the occasional 5000 out of the ATM you often use, meaning you might not even notice it.

Last time it was for a much larger amount, this time just 5000 so im lucky, and also lucky natwest instantly repaid it, I am going to start using ATMs inside banks, although the first time I got scammed the ATM was on the outside of a bank in the mall with a security guard near by... so whos to say he isnt in onit too?

Cheers all and look sharp

[kingalfred]

I have not had this problem YET !!

I always use an ATM located inside a bank.

Do Thai banks cover if it does happen? Bangkok bank??

no not at all

[Chivas]

I got scammed last year via an ATM machine in a mall...

Same again today, logged into my bank to find 5000 + 180 Bhat down from yesterday... strange thing is I used the same ATM machine 3 days ago to draw out 3000 Bhat,

Called natwest they refunded me, but considering I cover my pin and check for skimming devices, I am confused. They must have a pad over the keypad?

Lady at natwest although great to refund me wasnt very helpfull, simply said they would contact the Thai police if further investigation is needed, good luck on that one love.

What confuses me more is... they took 5000 bhat and left it at that, surely if they took 5000 succesffully they would then attempt to get more? or are they thinking lets leave it and see if it is not noticed and keep doing it occasionally? Anyway... keep an eye on your account guys, they might just slip the occasional 5000 out of the ATM you often use, meaning you might not even notice it.

Last time it was for a much larger amount, this time just 5000 so im lucky, and also lucky natwest instantly repaid it, I am going to start using ATMs inside banks, although the first time I got scammed the ATM was on the outside of a bank in the mall with a security guard near by... so whos to say he isnt in onit too?

Cheers all and look sharp

I've completely stopped using my own Banks ATM Card unless an outright emergency. Change Cash or Draw from Thai Bank in branch or use Revolut Card with just enough transferred into it 5 minutes before use.

[balo]

You should always cover your hand with something when entering your pin code, just in case there is a camera recording. Never had a problem so far.

[ryanhull]

I've completely stopped using my own Banks ATM Card unless an outright emergency. Change Cash or Draw from Thai Bank in branch or use Revolut Card with just enough transferred into it 5 minutes before use.

As you say, cash drawn from bank I think is the safest bet, cheers

You should always cover your hand with something when entering your pin code, just in case there is a camera recording. Never had a problem so far.

I always cover my pin pad up, but now even that is not enough as they often put there own pad over the pad which tracks your pin press!

[speedtripler]

Bangkok Bank offers an ATM card with a chip in it. I don't think it can be skimmed. The downside is that it only works at Bangkok Bank ATM's.

Wrong, I have had my Debit Card and Credit Card 'skimmed' both had 'chips' here and in Europe. They were issued through the HSBC and backed by Visa. Visa cover the losses then they try to recoup the money, I got all my money back immediately. If they can prove you 'misused' your card they will not, you have to sign a letter stating you had the card in your possession and not divulged the PIN number to anyone.

So if you have Cards make sure they are Visa backed, not sure if Masrecard covers you.

I have a Kasikorn account with a 'chip and pin' Visa Debit Card, when I use it at Big C I sign the slip, they don't check the signature against the one on the card, no Pin Number and don't ask for any identification, little wonder there are so many fraud eland cases of Cards in Thailand.

I have not seen a BKK Bank with a chip as yet. And I recently renewed a damaged card.

I've got one, a few months ago. Just ask for it.

I think they only use the chip cards now

Last 3 or so I've gotten have had the chip

Its a major annoyance if you can't use other atms and point of sale wont work at big C yet but it keeps your money much safer and more resistant to the skimmers

Because magnetic strip is very very weak security...

[Soutpeel]

Another thing you can do is sign up for SMS and email notification when there is a transaction on your account, although it doesnt stop the skimming it will draw your attention to the fact your account has been accessed...i bank with Citi in Singapore and the notification system is excellent - get an SMS and email within 5 minutes of a transaction...so if it wasnt me, i know pretty sharpish to call the bank and get the account blocked

[JimGant]

and point of sale wont work at big C yet

I wonder why that is? The Big C stores in Chiang Mai have chip reading POS machines, but they default to the chip and signature mode. Maybe the Bangkok Bank chip card only works in the chip and pin mode -- and maybe Big C machines don't have that option.....which is probably the case, since their machines/ pin pad aren't even reachable by the customer (as I recall).

Edited October 15, 2015 by JimGant

[Heng]

*bump*

Another thing you can do to help defeat these skimming gangs is 'lobby' or write a letter to your bank or card issuer to allow online PIN changes and/or to adjust your card limits online (from within your online banking access). Some banks have this function to one degree or the other but it's not universal. The PIN change at the machine defense has the flaw that it doesn't help if that machine happens to be compromised.

As for card limits, I just set my limits to zero after I use my Bank of America ATM card for example. So even if I have my data skimmed, all they have is the 'data' for a card that won't work because the limits are zeroed out. The criminals would presumably just then discard the cloned card after a couple of tries as unusable. Unfortunately they don't have an online PIN change function yet, but I have suggested it.

Another bank I use, Bancorp (in the US also), doesn't allow online limit changes, but has an online PIN change function. Any skimmed PIN information is useless to the ATM skimming gangs because the PIN is changed (safely online) long before any cloned card can be made.