Retirement Visa by any other name

[kowpot]

Why is it that when someone refers to an extension of stay and calls it a Retirement Visa, there are so many posting that it is an Extension of Stay "Not" a Retirement Visa?

Are these people just trying to be difficult or want to show that they are all experts in the visa process. So, someone calls it a Retirement Visa. So What? We all know what they are talking about.

Thai law firms advertise world wide and call it a Retirement Visa. Yes, it is an Extension of Stay based on Retirement. Get over it. I know what they are talking about and so don't you.

[Colabamumbai]

There is no such thing. It is a visa to live your life in Thailand, with extensions of stay.

It is a Non O visa.

[glegolo]

I think, for me, that it is important that for the sake of good order, not to mix things up, that it is much better to learn and call stuff for what it is.....

Ignorance is never a good thing, and shouldn´t be encouraged in any way in life. It is better for the less knowledgeable to learn than for the vise to step a side...

There is always a reason that there is different words in a language, and if one doesn´t acknowledge that, than we have abig problem. Big law-firms do not know the correct wording, Immigration.officers do not know the correct wording.. Does THAT makes it right?

Glegolo

ps. For post number 2 - WRONG! When you come to Thailand you have bought a VISA, you than arrive and are given by the IO an permission to stay OR period to stay.

When this runs out, it is no longer a permission or period to stay, and the VISA are about to die with it... THAN it is time to apply for a extension of stay from that permission to stay.... OK....

THIS IS THE REASON why we should use the correct wording!!

Edited September 27, 2015 by glegolo

[Expattaff1308]

If you use the correct terms, ie Non O, Non OA, multi entry, single entry, extension of stay, then the advice that you want for can be given correctly.

For instance there is a world of difference between a Non O visa and an extension of stay, different requirements for Non O and OA etc etc, just makes life easier for those answering queries.

[Sophon]

The problem is that we don't "all know what they are talking about".

The term "retirement visa" is routinely used here for extensions based on retirement as well as Non Immigrant O-A visas and Non Immigrant O Visas, all of these having different rules and requirements. So when we have someone living here on an extension of stay saying he has a retirement visa and asking if he needs a re-entry permit if he wants to leave for a trip, the answer is 'yes'. But if no-one points out that he really has an extension, then someone else with a Non Immigrant O-A visa will think that he will also need a re-entry permit before leaving. Similarly, when someone asks about the requirements to obtain a retirement visa (but is talking about a Non Immigrant O-A visa), and is told that he can qualify with the equivalent of Baht 800k in a bank outside Thailand, then others who wants an extension will think that they can also qualify with funds in their home bank.. And when someone from Great Britain wants a one year multiple entry Non Immigrant O visa and is told that he needs to receive a government pension to qualify, then others will think that the same applies to the Non Immigrant O-A visa.

The above examples are not ones I have made up, but real life examples about people here on Thai Visa being confused about the rules because they mix up the rules and requirements between the different types of visas and extensions, all because people use the wrong terminology. And as you point out, embassies and Immigration are adding to that confusion. If everyone used the correct terms, then much of this confusion could be avoided.

Sophon

[Jingthing]

We don't always know unless people use correct terms. This isn't mindreaders.com.

[kowpot]

The problem is that we don't "all know what they are talking about".

The term "retirement visa" is routinely used here for extensions based on retirement as well as Non Immigrant O-A visas and Non Immigrant O Visas, all of these having different rules and requirements. So when we have someone living here on an extension of stay saying he has a retirement visa and asking if he needs a re-entry permit if he wants to leave for a trip, the answer is 'yes'. But if no-one points out that he really has an extension, then someone else with a Non Immigrant O-A visa will think that he will also need a re-entry permit before leaving. Similarly, when someone asks about the requirements to obtain a retirement visa (but is talking about a Non Immigrant O-A visa), and is told that he can qualify with the equivalent of Baht 800k in a bank outside Thailand, then others who wants an extension will think that they can also qualify with funds in their home bank.. And when someone from Great Britain wants a one year multiple entry Non Immigrant O visa and is told that he needs to receive a government pension to qualify, then others will think that the same applies to the Non Immigrant O-A visa.

The above examples are not ones I have made up, but real life examples about people here on Thai Visa being confused about the rules because they mix up the rules and requirements between the different types of visas and extensions, all because people use the wrong terminology. And as you point out, embassies and Immigration are adding to that confusion. If everyone used the correct terms, then much of this confusion could be avoided.

Sophon

While I agree with all that is said, my point was. If we are having a conversation and I tell you that I am here on a Retirement Visa, are you going to correct me? Or do you understand what I am talking about. Are you telling me that I should say, I am here on a Non Immigrant O-A visa?

[dutchisaan]

Why is it that when someone refers to an extension of stay and calls it a Retirement Visa, there are so many posting that it is an Extension of Stay "Not" a Retirement Visa?

Are these people just trying to be difficult or want to show that they are all experts in the visa process. So, someone calls it a Retirement Visa. So What? We all know what they are talking about.

Thai law firms advertise world wide and call it a Retirement Visa. Yes, it is an Extension of Stay based on Retirement. Get over it. I know what they are talking about and so don't you.

What is your problem?

I think you have to get over it.

Have a nice day.

[slipperylobster]

Visas are given out at Embassies/consulates. Extensions are done at immigration. If you call your extension a "visa" then you are confusing many people...who want to get this nasty business done correctly...at the right place.

It is not that people are trying to be "Mr. Know it all"....rather it is lazy posters implying that they do not need an extension of stay, by referring to a non existant "One year retirement visa".

[Jingthing]

The problem is that we don't "all know what they are talking about".

The term "retirement visa" is routinely used here for extensions based on retirement as well as Non Immigrant O-A visas and Non Immigrant O Visas, all of these having different rules and requirements. So when we have someone living here on an extension of stay saying he has a retirement visa and asking if he needs a re-entry permit if he wants to leave for a trip, the answer is 'yes'. But if no-one points out that he really has an extension, then someone else with a Non Immigrant O-A visa will think that he will also need a re-entry permit before leaving. Similarly, when someone asks about the requirements to obtain a retirement visa (but is talking about a Non Immigrant O-A visa), and is told that he can qualify with the equivalent of Baht 800k in a bank outside Thailand, then others who wants an extension will think that they can also qualify with funds in their home bank.. And when someone from Great Britain wants a one year multiple entry Non Immigrant O visa and is told that he needs to receive a government pension to qualify, then others will think that the same applies to the Non Immigrant O-A visa.

The above examples are not ones I have made up, but real life examples about people here on Thai Visa being confused about the rules because they mix up the rules and requirements between the different types of visas and extensions, all because people use the wrong terminology. And as you point out, embassies and Immigration are adding to that confusion. If everyone used the correct terms, then much of this confusion could be avoided.

No

Sophon

While I agree with all that is said, my point was. If we are having a conversation and I tell you that I am here on a Retirement Visa, are you going to correct me? Or do you understand what I am talking about. Are you telling me that I should say, I am here on a Non Immigrant O-A visa?

Great example to prove you wrong! Not correct you. Need you to clarify. Are you on a current OA visa or a current extension. Totally different situations requiring totally different advice.

[ratcatcher]

The problem is that we don't "all know what they are talking about".

The term "retirement visa" is routinely used here for extensions based on retirement as well as Non Immigrant O-A visas and Non Immigrant O Visas, all of these having different rules and requirements. So when we have someone living here on an extension of stay saying he has a retirement visa and asking if he needs a re-entry permit if he wants to leave for a trip, the answer is 'yes'. But if no-one points out that he really has an extension, then someone else with a Non Immigrant O-A visa will think that he will also need a re-entry permit before leaving. Similarly, when someone asks about the requirements to obtain a retirement visa (but is talking about a Non Immigrant O-A visa), and is told that he can qualify with the equivalent of Baht 800k in a bank outside Thailand, then others who wants an extension will think that they can also qualify with funds in their home bank.. And when someone from Great Britain wants a one year multiple entry Non Immigrant O visa and is told that he needs to receive a government pension to qualify, then others will think that the same applies to the Non Immigrant O-A visa.

The above examples are not ones I have made up, but real life examples about people here on Thai Visa being confused about the rules because they mix up the rules and requirements between the different types of visas and extensions, all because people use the wrong terminology. And as you point out, embassies and Immigration are adding to that confusion. If everyone used the correct terms, then much of this confusion could be avoided.

Sophon

While I agree with all that is said, my point was. If we are having a conversation and I tell you that I am here on a Retirement Visa, are you going to correct me? Or do you understand what I am talking about. Are you telling me that I should say, I am here on a Non Immigrant O-A visa?

Why not just keep it simple and say you are retired and living here.

[Jingthing]

Visas are given out at Embassies/consulates. Extensions are done at immigration. If you call your extension a "visa" then you are confusing many people...who want to get this nasty business done correctly...at the right place.

It is not that people are trying to be "Mr. Know it all"....rather it is lazy posters implying that they do not need an extension of stay, by referring to a non existant "One year retirement visa".

Not exactly. You can get a 90 day O visa in Thailand if used as the first step towards a retirement extension.

[fang37]

Much ado about nothing?

I have a retirement visa - I have a O-A visa - visa extension - extension of stay

Yes, I get confused regarding interpretation but I have no need to be pedantic.

I am legally permitted to reside in Thailand for the ensuing 12 months.

All OK by me. I haven't broken any laws?

[Lite Beer]

Nothing to do with being pedantic. It is to do with trying to give correct advice. If we do not know what people have in their passports it makes it impossible.

Sometimes it takes more than a page to actually find out what people are asking about.

Different rules for different things.

Simple as that.

[Jingthing]

Nothing to do with being pedantic. It is to do with trying to give correct advice. If we do not know what people have in their passports it makes it impossible.

Sometimes it takes more than a page to actually find out what people are asking about

Exactly. People who get involved with actually trying to help people here I'm sure would all agree. We've even had cases of people doing things wrong (sometimes with really serious consequences) based on not knowing the correct terminology and getting bad advice based on that, when they could have easily gotten the correct advice if the correct terminology was communicated. On this forum, correct terminology IS a big deal.

If you're staying in Thailand, especially long term, it makes good sense to know precisely what is in your passport and to be able to communicate that to others if needed.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Jingthing

[Sophon]

The problem is that we don't "all know what they are talking about".

The term "retirement visa" is routinely used here for extensions based on retirement as well as Non Immigrant O-A visas and Non Immigrant O Visas, all of these having different rules and requirements. So when we have someone living here on an extension of stay saying he has a retirement visa and asking if he needs a re-entry permit if he wants to leave for a trip, the answer is 'yes'. But if no-one points out that he really has an extension, then someone else with a Non Immigrant O-A visa will think that he will also need a re-entry permit before leaving. Similarly, when someone asks about the requirements to obtain a retirement visa (but is talking about a Non Immigrant O-A visa), and is told that he can qualify with the equivalent of Baht 800k in a bank outside Thailand, then others who wants an extension will think that they can also qualify with funds in their home bank.. And when someone from Great Britain wants a one year multiple entry Non Immigrant O visa and is told that he needs to receive a government pension to qualify, then others will think that the same applies to the Non Immigrant O-A visa.

The above examples are not ones I have made up, but real life examples about people here on Thai Visa being confused about the rules because they mix up the rules and requirements between the different types of visas and extensions, all because people use the wrong terminology. And as you point out, embassies and Immigration are adding to that confusion. If everyone used the correct terms, then much of this confusion could be avoided.

Sophon

While I agree with all that is said, my point was. If we are having a conversation and I tell you that I am here on a Retirement Visa, are you going to correct me? Or do you understand what I am talking about. Are you telling me that I should say, I am here on a Non Immigrant O-A visa?

If we were having a conversation, then there would not be hundreds of other people listening in and perhaps misunderstanding what we were talking about. In a private conversation and if I knew that you understood the rules pertaining to your situation, then no, I wouldn't correct you. But if didn't believe you really have a good grasp of the topic, then yes I would explain to you what you really had and why it's important for you to understand whether you have an extension or a visa, because the rules you will have to follow for 90 day reports, extensions, re-entry permits etc. are different for an extension compared to a visa. This is a forum where people go to obtain dependable information (and mainly about Thai visas and extensions), and you are doing no-one a favour by perpetuating the use of incorrect terminology.

People complain all the time about how confusing the rules for a "retirement visa" are and how they change all the time, but once you understand the difference between visa, permission to stay and extensions it really isn't that hard. But if you insist on calling everything a visa, then you will not get to that point. And the rules for obtaining a retirement extension has been almost unchanged for quite a few years now. Literally every day there are posts here on Thai Visa where people ask about a "retirement visa" and don't understand what they have or are trying to get. There are also daily posts where the first several replies are asking for information about what exactly it is the OP means, because it's not clear from the context what the question is about.

What I really don't understand are the people who starts their post with "I know that it is really a retirement extension, but I always call it a retirement visa". If you know the correct term, why insist on calling it something else?

Sophon

Edited September 27, 2015 by Sophon

[cooked]

You need a visa in many countries in order to enter, and in some cases, to leave, that country.

If the visa also gives you permission to stay for three months or whatever, that is a GOOD THING.

At some point you will have to extend that permission to stay or leave, and this can be done for various reasons, retirement, being married, study and so on.

The permission to stay in my case has been extended because I have a Thai wife. I have to renew that permission every year, meanwhile I let Immigration know that I am still at the same address every 90 days.

Telling someone that you have a marriage / retirement visa indicates that you haven't thought it through.

[swampdonkey]

OP, Don't despair. There is no such thing as a multiple entry tourist visa, Yet there has been numerous posts about them every week.

The visa fairies have listen and they are giving us a multiple entry tourist visa for a bargain 5000 baht.

Start posting about retirement visas and they may also grant your wish.

Another visa the fairies should consider is an overstay visa. It would be a cash cow they could charge 20,000 baht for it.

[kowpot]

So I guess we will just go on Chastising people for using the wrong terminology in a post. Yah, that will teach em.

[Expattaff1308]

So I guess we will just go on Chastising people for using the wrong terminology in a post. Yah, that will teach em.

It's not about chastising, it's about being able to give accurate advice when asked for.

[Expattaff1308]

OP, Don't despair. There is no such thing as a multiple entry tourist visa, Yet there has been numerous posts about them every week.

The visa fairies have listen and they are giving us a multiple entry tourist visa for a bargain 5000 baht.

Start posting about retirement visas and they may also grant your wish.

Another visa the fairies should consider is an overstay visa. It would be a cash cow they could charge 20,000 baht for it.

wrong post sorry

Edited September 27, 2015 by Expattaff1308

[oncearugge]

So I guess we will just go on Chastising people for using the wrong terminology in a post. Yah, that will teach em.

It's not about chastising, it's about being able to give accurate advice when asked for.

A perfect example here of imprecise terminology being used

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/858771-reporting-first-time-90-days-on-marriage-visa-what-forms-etc-do-i-need-and-is-there-any-cost/

Which results in people having to guess what the OP is asking obout.

There is, of course, no "marriage visa"

[oncearugge]

Much ado about nothing?

I have a retirement visa - I have a O-A visa - visa extension - extension of stay

Yes, I get confused regarding interpretation but I have no need to be pedantic.

I am legally permitted to reside in Thailand for the ensuing 12 months.

All OK by me. I haven't broken any laws?

If you say you have a valid O/A visa and in the same sentence ask if you need a reentry permit the "correct" answer is NO !

If however you do not actually have a valid O/A visa on your return you will only be given a 30 day visa exempt entry!

Who is to blame for the misfortune?

Understanding exactly what a passport contains and being able to articulate that information accurately is the key to receiving good advice.

[partington]

There have also been many posts by people who didn't understand whether they had an O-A visa or an extension of stay leaving the country without getting a re-entry permit and so losing their extension.

If you leave with a valid O-A visa, no problem, you can re-enter at any time during your visa's validity and get a year's permission to stay from the time you enter. If you leave with an extension of permission to stay that has 10 months to go and try to re-enter in the absence of a re-entry permit, you will be given 30 days permission to stay only. Often people don't understand that when on an extension you no longer have a current visa (permission to enter at a border).

Using the right terms enables advisors to understand what your status is, and it enables you yourself to understand your visa status and how your actions will affect it.

Arguing that calling two different things by the same name doesn't matter lacks common sense in my opinion. Things are given different names because they are different from one another!

[glassdude007]

Thanks for the info....

Considering i'm here on my 5th straight free 30 day stamp visa entry

Now i understand

cheers

[oncearugge]

Thanks for the info....

Considering i'm here on my 5th straight free 30 day stamp visa entry

Now i understand

cheers

Would you be kind enough to scan and post a picture of this free 30 day visa entry?

Thanks

[mommysboy]

Yes it is sheer pedantry imo, although it is true that when one looks more closely at an issue exact terminology is essential to determine whether one is talking about a new application, or a renewal.

But in the main if someone comes on the boards and says "I have just turned 50 can I get a retirement visa ? ", I'd say it is fairly simple to work out what he wants. And many questions are of this nature.

Somewhat misleading then for perhaps some to state, " there is no such thing as a reitirement visa". And then launch in to legal prose that even the dryest of laconic lawyers would be proud to put their name against, serving only to confuse someone who clearly is half way there already.

One word solves it- putative, ie, what is commonly accepted, by the reasonable anyway!

It is then the putative retirement visa.

[Jingthing]

If someone is 50 and all he says is he wants a "retirement visa" we need to know A LOT more to give any kind of good advice!

Does he want an O-A?

Is he in Thailand?

Does he understand the huge differences between starting with an O-A or not?

What financial requirements can he use?

It makes a BIG difference if going for an O-A or going for an extension, where you first need an O visa, before the extension.

If the latter, how will he get the O visa?

In his home country? Possible or not? Not always.

In a neighboring to Thailand country. Then figure out how to do that.

In Thailand. Then figure out how to do that. Depends on WHERE in Thailand he will live.

Just scratched the surface here.

If we aren't on the same page with terminology how are people supposed to understand their best (and even possible) options? Much less get GOOD advice on the best ways of going about getting what they need.

Then of course some people pay agencies to do everything and don't even ever bother to learn the first thing about what they have in their passport. I guess that's OK IF what the agent did was legal and if you're OK paying those guys indefinitely but I wouldn't be comfortable being so dependent in such a matter as my legal status here.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Jingthing

[tropo]

I think, for me, that it is important that for the sake of good order, not to mix things up, that it is much better to learn and call stuff for what it is.....

Ignorance is never a good thing, and shouldn´t be encouraged in any way in life. It is better for the less knowledgeable to learn than for the vise to step a side...

There is always a reason that there is different words in a language, and if one doesn´t acknowledge that, than we have abig problem. Big law-firms do not know the correct wording, Immigration.officers do not know the correct wording.. Does THAT makes it right?

Glegolo

ps. For post number 2 - WRONG! When you come to Thailand you have bought a VISA, you than arrive and are given by the IO an permission to stay OR period to stay.

When this runs out, it is no longer a permission or period to stay, and the VISA are about to die with it... THAN it is time to apply for a extension of stay from that permission to stay.... OK....

THIS IS THE REASON why we should use the correct wording!!

I'm with the OP on this. I find it annoying when pedantic forum members try to correct people whenever they use the informal term.

I'm going to call it a "retirement visa" as long as I post on this forum. I've made one concession - I use parentheses so as not to upset the OCD crowd too much.

Using abbreviated and/or informal terminology is common in English. Get over it! Saying it's: "an extension of stay based on retirement" sounds awkward in most contexts. When people are discussing the mechanics of how to get a visa based on retirement that's different, but if someone asks me what visa I've got, it's a "retirement visa", end of story.

Edited September 27, 2015 by tropo

[tropo]

We don't always know unless people use correct terms. This isn't mindreaders.com.

No one has to read your mind - it's all recorded here.