Rising anger in Thailand's boom-to-bust Isaan

[Thailand]

I doubt if it is only Issan that is suffering and discontented.

The whole country appears to be suffering the effects of world economic downturn combined with a general economic mismanagement on the home front.

[robblok]

A collapsing Chinese economy. Perhaps American and European sanctions in the near future. Forget about boiling over. This pot could become a pressure cooker that explodes.

Sanctions?

Unthinkable...over what btw?

Not following the news ? Eu fishing ban (no longer allowing Thai products to be sold in EU) if the regulations arent followed. US might impose sanctions because of the human trafficking.

[SoilSpoil]

It's a basic rule of thumb that you need a 50k+ monthly salary in order to buy a new car on credit and run it. Many financial problems in low income Isaan are self inflicted. One hardly sees any red plates in the area now though.

My maid got a new truck with a very small downpayment. And we pay her WAY less than 50k/month! LOL

Thats the core of the problem, isnt it. My simple car costs me about 20k a month. Gas, insurance, tax, maintenance and depreciation. Once you drive a car, you want to keep doing that and need to depreciate your asset. Took me years to explain that to my inlaws and they still dont really understand it.

[allan michaud]

It's a basic rule of thumb that you need a 50k+ monthly salary in order to buy a new car on credit and run it. Many financial problems in low income Isaan are self inflicted. One hardly sees any red plates in the area now though.

My maid got a new truck with a very small downpayment. And we pay her WAY less than 50k/month! LOL

You don't need 50k a month, however there are plenty of Issan people who are simply too dumb to even understand they have to pay back loans.

My ex-wife's mother borrowed Baht 240,000 more than 20 years ago, they paid only the interest of 5,750 per month for 20 years before the loan shark finally came knocking on the door and demanded the principal be paid. They lost their house to pay the principal despite having paid over 1.5million in interest payments. They also borrowed a further 60,000 at 10% per month as the the house didn't cover all of the outstanding debt. Plenty of people bought cars etc they simply could not afford to pay for.

Dumber than a box of hammers. Sadly this is not an isolated case. It's hard to have sympathy when people are this stupid.

Edited October 1, 2015 by allan michaud

[tomhell]

Warren Buffett (one of the richest american investors) said: If class warfare is being waged in America, my class (the rich) is clearly winning

There is a class war in Thailand: The rich elites in Bangkok (and everywhere else) are winning.

It´s sad to see how the Thai people are brainwashed by a military dictatorship. The rich elites and the military always talk about to protect: Nation, Religion, King - but it´s just about money and power.

There is no peace in Thailand. It´s a war against the poor.

[MZurf]

They thought loans were gifts, probably what the PTP told them. Now they have to pay back they blame the current government. Instead of changing their ways they are constantly asking for handouts. This is how they are bought by the PTP, and the reason they are angry now. They are not being bribed to vote this time.

They should be helped to change crops, not paying over market price and doing the same stupid thing over and over again. Farming rice does not work but they keep doing it. They say Thailand has a low unemployment rate, let these guys work plenty of immigrants doing work so why can't these guys do the same jobs ?

Sounds almost the same as those living of welfare in my own country, always wanting more and help but not working while others do work.

" Farming rice does not work..."

Huh? Thailand is the world's second largest rice exporter and farming rice does not work?? Even if market prices are depressed right now it doesn't mean they will remain so forever. Farming rice will never make the actual farmers rich but it's put bread on the table (pun intended) for centuries. Besides, it's a winning situation for the junta. Keeping the rural population suitably poor, uneducated and indoctrinated is a way to ensure the continued domination of the old elite.

Of course, if they get too poor then the lid might come off despite dancing girls in camo shorts, reciting Uncle Too's principles, marching and flag waving.

[zaphod reborn]

Does Reuters really allow their journalists to write this completely unsubstantiated nonsense, and then publish it? Just a bunch of unsupported opinions - absolutely nothing of substance to back any of it up. It must be nice to be paid to be a journalistic troll.

[robblok]

They thought loans were gifts, probably what the PTP told them. Now they have to pay back they blame the current government. Instead of changing their ways they are constantly asking for handouts. This is how they are bought by the PTP, and the reason they are angry now. They are not being bribed to vote this time.

They should be helped to change crops, not paying over market price and doing the same stupid thing over and over again. Farming rice does not work but they keep doing it. They say Thailand has a low unemployment rate, let these guys work plenty of immigrants doing work so why can't these guys do the same jobs ?

Sounds almost the same as those living of welfare in my own country, always wanting more and help but not working while others do work.

" Farming rice does not work..."

Huh? Thailand is the world's second largest rice exporter and farming rice does not work?? Even if market prices are depressed right now it doesn't mean they will remain so forever. Farming rice will never make the actual farmers rich but it's put bread on the table (pun intended) for centuries. Besides, it's a winning situation for the junta. Keeping the rural population suitably poor, uneducated and indoctrinated is a way to ensure the continued domination of the old elite.

Of course, if they get too poor then the lid might come off despite dancing girls in camo shorts, reciting Uncle Too's principles, marching and flag waving.

No, Vietnam and other countries are doing it cheaper as the Thais, and the farmers are getting poorer all the time needing handouts all the time. So its obvious the small scale farming does not work they need to change crops or occupation. (and should receive help doing that) instead of the constant handout that binds them to the PTP.

[whatawonderfulday]

It's a basic rule of thumb that you need a 50k+ monthly salary in order to buy a new car on credit and run it. Many financial problems in low income Isaan are self inflicted. One hardly sees any red plates in the area now though.

My maid got a new truck with a very small downpayment. And we pay her WAY less than 50k/month! LOL

You don't need 50k a month, however there are plenty of Issan people who are simply too dumb to even understand they have to pay back loans.

My ex-wife's mother borrowed Baht 240,000 more than 20 years ago, they paid only the interest of 5,750 per month for 20 years before the loan shark finally came knocking on the door and demanded the principal be paid. They lost their house to pay the principal despite having paid over 1.5million in interest payments. They also borrowed a further 60,000 at 10% per month as the the house didn't cover all of the outstanding debt. Plenty of people bought cars etc they simply could not afford to pay for.

Dumber than a box of hammers. Sadly this is not an isolated case. It's hard to have sympathy when people are this stupid.

So you consider that the purposeful deprivation of a large area of Thailand, Issan being the larger part, to even the meagre educational standards shared by say Bangkokians, automatically allows you to consider these millions of people as stupid ?

I think you are the stupid one with your generalistic and ignorantly assessed statements. Lack of education does not equal stupidity. It contributes to naivety yes and the ability of others, general the elitists, to exploit these people as your loan example typifies perhaps, but stupid they are not.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Does Reuters really allow their journalists to write this completely unsubstantiated nonsense, and then publish it? Just a bunch of unsupported opinions - absolutely nothing of substance to back any of it up. It must be nice to be paid to be a journalistic troll.

Did you "invest" in Isaan?

[rreddin]

................. The vast Platinum 168 shopping mall on the outskirts of the provincial capital of Udon Thani was built during the boom, but it is now less than a third occupied and no longer charging tenants rent. .............

can that actually be true ? How do they pay the electric bill etc

The term "shopping mall" is misleading. It is a vast undercover non-food market where the shops are just enclosed stalls, each of which has its own metered electricity supply.

[comeondoit]

That is one of the bullshit articles written by a redshirt hardliner. My Buddha, generous subsidies, ridiculous, if only 20% of the spent money coming from all Thai people, arrived here. That money was many times used with no sustainability in mind, like for improving the yields of the crops (Vietnam farmers are having twice the yield per rai as Thai farmers), no, they bought a new car (the populist car scheme was incenting them to do so) even if they have now no money to pay the car loan back,,,,,and so on...and so on.

But on the other hand people are quite happy here...the police is working better, excessive bribes are not paid anymore, for the people taking Yabah (a real problem out here) some well organised correction camps at some wats are working with the help of monks and many people to resocialise them, paid by the governement. So what I am hearing here and around midden in the Isaan is not what is stated in this article. By the way the agricultural support helping the farmers got really active as I could see from outside, consulting them, helping analyse the ground, talking about other crops, but it is difficult if you have hardly finished Matayom three and know nothing else than how farming was done by generations. Another problem is luring in the future, driving through the fields I am seeing new rubber plantations everywhere being planted instead of rice, coming to produce soon, every year the Thai rubber production is rising....and guess what happens with the price. And every rubber farmer will be crying for help, (most rubber farmers here a rich farmers with many rais of plantations) as happened not so long ago, so cry for rice subsidies will be followed by cries for rubber subsidies. That task is for any governemnt unsolvable without harming some people.

There are things the governement is doing well, without filling deep pockets, like rising the monthly payments for the old people. But one has to look around not through red tainted glasses, to see it.

Hopefully these brainless egoistic redshirts just filling their own pockets will never come back on power, only then we might have the possibility of a real civil war, since the rest of the Thai people would uprise. against using tax payers money again for people who anyway are already rich.

[Soutpeel]

Does Reuters really allow their journalists to write this completely unsubstantiated nonsense, and then publish it? Just a bunch of unsupported opinions - absolutely nothing of substance to back any of it up. It must be nice to be paid to be a journalistic troll.

Did you "invest" in Isaan?

Minor/zero shareholding in a MacMansion , "truck" and negative returns on his Thai gold holdings ?

[Kasset Tak]

If you are living/working as a farmer then when the money comes in from your harvest you need to reinvest and save until next harvest.

I made a 2 year business plan to make a duck farm with an initial investment of 30,000 baht for a Thai friend. After 19 months it was estimated that he would be able to start withdrawing 15-20,000 baht a month.

He would need to reinvest ALL the profit of the project for the first 18 month's to be able to expand his farm to that level without adding any more money. After 4 months he sold the first batch of ducks for 10,000 and bought a new TV. The 5^th month he got another 10,000 that he used to buy a new phone. The 6^th month he got 12,000 that went in to a stereo/karaoke. The 7^th month he wanted to borrow money because he had no ducks left to sell!
If he would have stayed with the plan then he would have bought feed and new ducklings for the money and would today have a farm producing about 750-1,000 ducks a month instead of being broke with just a few new toys!

[MZurf]

They thought loans were gifts, probably what the PTP told them. Now they have to pay back they blame the current government. Instead of changing their ways they are constantly asking for handouts. This is how they are bought by the PTP, and the reason they are angry now. They are not being bribed to vote this time.

They should be helped to change crops, not paying over market price and doing the same stupid thing over and over again. Farming rice does not work but they keep doing it. They say Thailand has a low unemployment rate, let these guys work plenty of immigrants doing work so why can't these guys do the same jobs ?

Sounds almost the same as those living of welfare in my own country, always wanting more and help but not working while others do work.

" Farming rice does not work..."

Huh? Thailand is the world's second largest rice exporter and farming rice does not work?? Even if market prices are depressed right now it doesn't mean they will remain so forever. Farming rice will never make the actual farmers rich but it's put bread on the table (pun intended) for centuries. Besides, it's a winning situation for the junta. Keeping the rural population suitably poor, uneducated and indoctrinated is a way to ensure the continued domination of the old elite.

Of course, if they get too poor then the lid might come off despite dancing girls in camo shorts, reciting Uncle Too's principles, marching and flag waving.

No, Vietnam and other countries are doing it cheaper as the Thais, and the farmers are getting poorer all the time needing handouts all the time. So its obvious the small scale farming does not work they need to change crops or occupation. (and should receive help doing that) instead of the constant handout that binds them to the PTP.

".... instead of the constant handout that binds them to the PTP."

Well, don't worry. Uncle Too is in the process of opening the money bag, although (Buddha forbid) it's not in any way populist policies.

[Jip99]

It's a basic rule of thumb that you need a 50k+ monthly salary in order to buy a new car on credit and run it. Many financial problems in low income Isaan are self inflicted. One hardly sees any red plates in the area now though.

My maid got a new truck with a very small downpayment. And we pay her WAY less than 50k/month! LOL

You don't need 50k a month, however there are plenty of Issan people who are simply too dumb to even understand they have to pay back loans.

My ex-wife's mother borrowed Baht 240,000 more than 20 years ago, they paid only the interest of 5,750 per month for 20 years before the loan shark finally came knocking on the door and demanded the principal be paid. They lost their house to pay the principal despite having paid over 1.5million in interest payments. They also borrowed a further 60,000 at 10% per month as the the house didn't cover all of the outstanding debt. Plenty of people bought cars etc they simply could not afford to pay for.

Dumber than a box of hammers. Sadly this is not an isolated case. It's hard to have sympathy when people are this stupid.

So you consider that the purposeful deprivation of a large area of Thailand, Issan being the larger part, to even the meagre educational standards shared by say Bangkokians, automatically allows you to consider these millions of people as stupid ?

I think you are the stupid one with your generalistic and ignorantly assessed statements. Lack of education does not equal stupidity. It contributes to naivety yes and the ability of others, general the elitists, to exploit these people as your loan example typifies perhaps, but stupid they are not.

I fear that you actually believe this.

[anon467848]

The rice farmers have got short memories.... I'm not a big fan of the Junta, but give them their dues, they settled all the outstanding payments over the rice subsidies as a priority when they took control. If the Red shirts were still in power a majority of the farmers would still be waiting for their money and would probably be bankrupt.

[Lunchbob]

I hope when they really start to protest, that they direct their anger towards the person mostly responsible, the one who screwed them over on the rice scheme and ruined Thailand for years to come, the one who encouraged them all to get into debt and buy new cars, trucks, houses and smartphones, the one who claimed to be doing everything for their benefit. But they won't, cos he's their hero and can do no wrong and it's always someone else's fault.

They might want to start looking at growing alternative crops and different ways of farming rather than repeating the same old tired cycle over and over again hoping for a better result. That's insanity. One of my friends up North has done this, and they're laughing. Diversification, works wonders.

A few friends and I converted the rice field to mix by digging swales by hand. It holds more water and gives you a raised area to plant bananas or whatever. The locals antagonised us, laughed at first, but now everyone can see the huge difference.

[scorecard]

Sadly, the Thai mentality seems very short sighted, with very little future planning. Of course for the average what I would call working class blue collar Thai, planning is probably very difficult if not impossible. The government changes, the constant coups. So many changes historically in countries result in crime, mafia type exploitation, etc.

" ... Of course for the average what I would call working class blue collar Thai, planning is probably very difficult if not impossible. ... "

How true, I've given my bachelor students small projects many times and told them they have to initially present a step by step overall plan. I'm talking about 1st , 2nd and 3rd year students.

They can't do it. They have no idea where to start.

Some complain 'but professor your not fair, you should give us the plan'.

My response is 'there is no perfect plan, there can be many plans to achieve the ultimate goals, this is part of your learning, to think and develop an appropriate plan. When you start your own business will your professor or anybody be there to give you the perfect plan?'

Again they complain...

[simon43]

It's a basic rule of thumb that you need a 50k+ monthly salary in order to buy a new car on credit and run it.

My ex just bought a new Toyota Yaris on credit, paying 6,000 baht a month, with free comprehensive insurance for the first year

[robblok]

They thought loans were gifts, probably what the PTP told them. Now they have to pay back they blame the current government. Instead of changing their ways they are constantly asking for handouts. This is how they are bought by the PTP, and the reason they are angry now. They are not being bribed to vote this time.

They should be helped to change crops, not paying over market price and doing the same stupid thing over and over again. Farming rice does not work but they keep doing it. They say Thailand has a low unemployment rate, let these guys work plenty of immigrants doing work so why can't these guys do the same jobs ?

Sounds almost the same as those living of welfare in my own country, always wanting more and help but not working while others do work.

" Farming rice does not work..."

Huh? Thailand is the world's second largest rice exporter and farming rice does not work?? Even if market prices are depressed right now it doesn't mean they will remain so forever. Farming rice will never make the actual farmers rich but it's put bread on the table (pun intended) for centuries. Besides, it's a winning situation for the junta. Keeping the rural population suitably poor, uneducated and indoctrinated is a way to ensure the continued domination of the old elite.

Of course, if they get too poor then the lid might come off despite dancing girls in camo shorts, reciting Uncle Too's principles, marching and flag waving.

No, Vietnam and other countries are doing it cheaper as the Thais, and the farmers are getting poorer all the time needing handouts all the time. So its obvious the small scale farming does not work they need to change crops or occupation. (and should receive help doing that) instead of the constant handout that binds them to the PTP.

".... instead of the constant handout that binds them to the PTP."

Well, don't worry. Uncle Too is in the process of opening the money bag, although (Buddha forbid) it's not in any way populist policies.

That is just as bad and just as populist (if it does not entail changes and is just a handout) But its hard to beat the rice scheme in ways of wastefulness.

[kinmaew]

and all this without the involvement of foreigners to blame well done Thais!!

[nahkit]

................. The vast Platinum 168 shopping mall on the outskirts of the provincial capital of Udon Thani was built during the boom, but it is now less than a third occupied and no longer charging tenants rent. .............

can that actually be true ? How do they pay the electric bill etc

The term "shopping mall" is misleading. It is a vast undercover non-food market where the shops are just enclosed stalls, each of which has its own metered electricity supply.

We bought two units in a similar market in Khon Kaen that was expanding (we already had two units in the original market that were bringing in money). All new unit holders were given the same date by which they had to open their business. When it became obvious that the expansion wouldn't be finished on time, the unit holders got together and held a meeting with the market management saying they wouldn't open unless everything was ready.

The management got them/us to open by promising that they wouldn't charge any rent until everything was done. That lasted for exactly one month, once everyone was open and stocked up, they charged rent. Two years on and the expanded part of the market is still half-empty plus they still haven't finished all the promised expansion.

[LannaGuy]

It'll all come to a head one day and I am convinced Yingluck will be treated far more kindly by history than the current installed PM. The rice scheme was poorly managed but well intended and now the subsidies have stopped and the farmers, once AGAIN, will suffer and does the Junta care? we know the answer to THAT.

[billphillips]

I was wondering if anyone could direct me to " the vast platinum 168 shopping mall"? I can't place it, perhaps I'm in the midst of a senior moment.

[GeckosDiving]

I hope when they really start to protest, that they direct their anger towards the person mostly responsible, the one who screwed them over on the rice scheme and ruined Thailand for years to come, the one who encouraged them all to get into debt and buy new cars, trucks, houses and smartphones, the one who claimed to be doing everything for their benefit. But they won't, cos he's their hero and can do no wrong and it's always someone else's fault.

They might want to start looking at growing alternative crops and different ways of farming rather than repeating the same old tired cycle over and over again hoping for a better result. That's insanity. One of my friends up North has done this, and they're laughing. Diversification, works wonders.

Best Post Ever say's it all !!

[Jip99]

It'll all come to a head one day and I am convinced Yingluck will be treated far more kindly by history than the current installed PM. The rice scheme was poorly managed but well intended and now the subsidies have stopped and the farmers, once AGAIN, will suffer and does the Junta care? we know the answer to THAT.

So much ignorance in one post!

Does 'poorly managed' = financially raped of over 600 Billion Baht?

Who do you think instigated the 1,000 Baht per rai payments last year and the support payments this year?

[anotheruser]

"when they sell their crop in coming months with rice prices near an 8-year low"

This must be an error. Thaksin - who everyone agrees is a business genius - said his withholding of Thai rice would increase world prices. I - who knows dickall about business - claimed other countries would increase production and when Thai sales resumed would be increased worldwide supply hence lower prices. Seems I know more about business that Dr.T, can somebody give me a telecoms monopoly to play with now?

Now use that infinite pool of knowledge to become richer than Thaksin.

[LannaGuy]

It'll all come to a head one day and I am convinced Yingluck will be treated far more kindly by history than the current installed PM. The rice scheme was poorly managed but well intended and now the subsidies have stopped and the farmers, once AGAIN, will suffer and does the Junta care? we know the answer to THAT.

So much ignorance in one post!

Does 'poorly managed' = financially raped of over 600 Billion Baht?

Who do you think instigated the 1,000 Baht per rai payments last year and the support payments this year?

You obviously have not done your homework and bought into the 'raped billions' propaganda. Where have these 'raped billions' gone? has anyone been arrested for corruption? or are you making it all up?

[huangnon]

The natives are revolting? Let them eat Custard Cake.