German tourist dies from box jellyfish attack on Samui

[Deli]

It's nature, nothing to do. And chances to get killed in a road accident are x-times higher in Thailand, than getting stung by a box jelly fish.

Do people stop renting motorbikes or using mini vans because of this ?

[Dogmatix]

Never mind the deaths of few inconsequential farangs. Plenty more where they came from. Make sure the box jellies in the Samui Islands are not talked about too much and no scary warnings are put out. Just keep the cash register clinking with dollars, euros, yen, yuan, rubles etc.

[nakhonandy]

Very sad, swimming in the dark is not a good idea, no chance of spotting these.

There should be warning signs but they are often ignored by tourists.

This time of year there are a lot of jellyfish, they will start to disappear as the water cools down, usually January.

Box jellyfish are there but not in large quantities, mainly Lions Mane jellyfish, also painful but not life threatening.

[Mudcrab]

Seems a lot of people are happily assuming a jellyfish is a jellyfish is a jellyfish.

You're in the tropics now boys and things are a little different here.

If you want to live longer obey the cardinal rules - no swimming in the wet season and no swimming in calm water.

Box jellies avoid rough water or surf and tend to move out of the creeks into more open water during the wet season.

Trust me, a Portuguese man'o'war or some other slightly annoying stinger from the "old country" simply isn't in the same league as chironex fleckeri which is the most venomous of the box jellyfish - and one of the most venomous animals on the planet.

Death can follow rapidly from a decent encounter.

I know from first hand experience that vinegar doesn't take the pain away..it's purpose is to stop any unfired nodes from releasing venom which they will do readily (even when the tentacle is broken off) especially if people use the old remedy of rubbing the area with sand,

Use quack treatments at your peril.

The sting marks on the young lady are a little unusual as c.fleckeri tend to be more ladderlike in marking.

[oldsailor35]

This is very painful for me to read this as my friend passed away on July 31st in Koh Phagan at the Full Moon party after being stung by a box jellyfish. Thailand need to do something about that it's been going on for years now. I hope this girl didn't suffer for long. I wish my condoleances to her family and friends, this is a terrible tragedy

I have lived on Samui for past 8 years and only ever heard of one Box Jelly fish death, certainly not this one on 31st july. Just goes to show how much they will 'hush' things up for money.

[csabo]

Very sad indeed.

A great reason to support protecting Thailands Sea Turtle population. Sea turtles find box jellyfish both harmless and delicious.

[Jimbo1964]

wow, didn't even know there are box jelly fish around these shores. They can be in the sea day and night but more often at night I believe. Beaches definitely need signs to warning swimmers. RIP.

[oldsailor35]

Queensland Australia have a very serious problem with Box Jelly Fish stings at certain times of the year. The treatment always recommended and used by the lifeguards is Vinegar. However researchers at James Cook University and Cairns far north Queensland hospital. find that vinegar increases the venom load.

When the jelly fish venom balls are fired off, they release at between 20% and 30%. The application of vinegar will increase this to between 50% and 60%.

This research has been published in the Australian journal of Diving and Hyperbaric Medicine.

[sambum]

"They were given primary care by rescue workers of Samui municipal rescue centre with vinegar to relieve their pains," - this is deeply disturbing as that is NOT what the vinegar is for....let's hope this is bad reporting and not bad training as regards the primary carers.

Were there signs on the beach and were there vinegar stations?

This is one of the most popular beaches in Thailand, in an area that is well within the region of box jellies - in Oz, there would be nets and the season clearly demarcated.

The more we hear of box jellies in Thailand, the more I'm reminded of the plot of "Jaws 1"

"They were given primary care by rescue workers of Samui municipal rescue centre with vinegar to relieve their pains, and later rushed to Bangkok Samui hospital."

And from later IN THE SAME ARTICLE!!! :-

"Experts say that the only treatment for box jellyfish is common vinegar. The vinegar does nothing to dull the pain but it does combat the toxicity. Without vinegar, the jellyfish stings continue to attack and destroy the victim’s flesh."

As a previous poster said, the safety of tourists does not appear to be the main concern - the main concern seems to be to make sure that tourists are not scared away - there are few enough of them as it is in spite of official figures to the contrary!

[thenewgoo]

Very sad.

Perhaps this is the biggest threat to Thai island tourism yet.

[oldsailor35]

I go into the sea off Maenam Beach just about daily and after living here for 8 years, had no idea of the Box Jelly Fish danger. No more sea swimming during the wet season for me. I doubt that the visitors to Samui around this time of the year, will have been warned about this.

In Australia, just about everybody has been warned and know of the danger of swimming in the sea at certain times of the year.

I guess that priorities are a little different on Samui !

[HerbalEd]

"They were given primary care by rescue workers of Samui municipal rescue centre with vinegar to relieve their pains," - this is deeply disturbing as that is NOT what the vinegar is for....let's hope this is bad reporting and not bad training as regards the primary carers.

Were there signs on the beach and were there vinegar stations?

This is one of the most popular beaches in Thailand, in an area that is well within the region of box jellies - in Oz, there would be nets and the season clearly demarcated.

The more we hear of box jellies in Thailand, the more I'm reminded of the plot of "Jaws 1"

"They were given primary care by rescue workers of Samui municipal rescue centre with vinegar to relieve their pains, and later rushed to Bangkok Samui hospital."

And from later IN THE SAME ARTICLE!!! :-

"Experts say that the only treatment for box jellyfish is common vinegar. The vinegar does nothing to dull the pain but it does combat the toxicity. Without vinegar, the jellyfish stings continue to attack and destroy the victim’s flesh."

As a previous poster said, the safety of tourists does not appear to be the main concern - the main concern seems to be to make sure that tourists are not scared away - there are few enough of them as it is in spite of official figures to the contrary!

Regarding your statement that: "there are few enough of them as it is in spite of official figures to the contrary!"

So, how much lower are the true figures from the official figures?

Edited October 7, 2015 by HerbalEd

[masuk]

If Thai tourist swimming areas are not netted, we can expect further fatalities. No use pretending it's not a problem, as it is.

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/jellyfish_stings/page4_em.htm

http://www.examiner.com/article/how-to-treat-a-box-jellyfish-sting-for-you-or-your-child

Patrolled swimming beaches in Northern Australia have vinegar every 100 metres.

Most residential areas have netted beaches which prevent jelly fish entering the swimming area.

[PoorSucker]

Is there a seasonal trend to box jellyfish incursions? I've swam many times on this beach but November - April. .

Believe so, up to now we had the western monsoon winds, middle of October the eastern monsoon starts.

Starting to change now, there are no wind and no currents.

vhttp://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/1000hPa/orthographic=-259.56,15.14,2212

[Loles]

RIP young Lady

the box jellyfish is a most dangerous for swimmers. bad luck a very big bad luck.

[thailanddogerator]

Sea is more and more dangerous and some stupid people keep telling that it's fine just like its fine to drive motorbkes in Thailand !

choose where you want to de, in the sea or on the road ? I choose my bed !!!

[starchild5]

I was bitten by a Jelly Fish in The Philippines on a Beach Hopping Boat Ride. It was very very painful - peeing, vinegar, meat tenderizer helps a bit but not too much. You just have to suffer it as your Karma - Only drinking large amounts of Vodka helps to distracts the pain.

The boat tour guy knew, the place was heavily infested with Jelly Fish but to make 500 pesos he did not warn and when i asked, why he did not warn us of Jelly Fish...He said...SMALL ONES - Little Pain Only...<deleted>

Be very careful - trust no one SEA....WEAR FULL Sleeves Clothing that Covers your whole body - My Friend had Full Sleaves clothes and she was not bitten and I was in my shorts only and was bitten in my stomach and left hand and it pained for couple of days and went away slowly.

[Nemesis7]

Sad. RIP.

But any sort of night ventures are not safe in LOS.

[Class C]

^{A potentially relevant follow up:}

^{Here's an interesting review about zinc gluconate powder on amazon from 'Farm Girl'}

http://www.amazon.com/NutraBio-Zinc-Gluconate-Powder-Grams/dp/B00333920A

^{By Farm Girl on December 10, 2014}

^{Verified Purchase}

<sup>Ok, so I bought this not to take as an internal supplement, though it very well may be great for that. I purchased this for insect bites and Oh boy does it do the job!! Living in the deep south fire ants are trouble and even though we are aware of the mounds, occasionally one of us is doing something and not paying attention, then voila a foot full of ants and the bites. This happened the other day in the garden, I immediately put about a tsp of the zinc gluconate powder in my palm and added enough water to make a paste and slathered it all over my foot. What relief, almost no itch (what little there was went away quickly), no fire burning sensation at all. I just left it on for hours (this may or not be necessary I was just busy) happily to my surprise there were no ugly bumps the next day that usually happen with fire ant bites. And no itch later on. Everyone should have some of this in their first aid kit or purse even. Supposed to work for wasp/ hornet/ bee stings, jellyfish stings as well, but not tested by me yet. I really appreciate that it contains NO fillers or any other ingredients, just 100% zinc gluconate.

Update: July 16, 2015- Well I can say for sure that this does indeed work for wasp stings!! Got tagged just an hour or so ago. Within just a few minutes the horrible burning was gone to just a dull ache, within another 3 or so minutes that was about gone also. I did notice a slight bit of pain returning once the paste dried, so I dabbed it a bit with more water and the pain subsided again. Have continued to keep it just a bit moist and no pain at all. Very minimal swelling. Usually I look like I have a half a ping pong ball under the skin when I get stung by a wasp, but this time, if I did not know it I might not even notice the swelling and it is on my wrist. Wonderful stuff!</sup>

[sambum]

"They were given primary care by rescue workers of Samui municipal rescue centre with vinegar to relieve their pains," - this is deeply disturbing as that is NOT what the vinegar is for....let's hope this is bad reporting and not bad training as regards the primary carers.

Were there signs on the beach and were there vinegar stations?

This is one of the most popular beaches in Thailand, in an area that is well within the region of box jellies - in Oz, there would be nets and the season clearly demarcated.

The more we hear of box jellies in Thailand, the more I'm reminded of the plot of "Jaws 1"

"They were given primary care by rescue workers of Samui municipal rescue centre with vinegar to relieve their pains, and later rushed to Bangkok Samui hospital."

And from later IN THE SAME ARTICLE!!! :-

"Experts say that the only treatment for box jellyfish is common vinegar. The vinegar does nothing to dull the pain but it does combat the toxicity. Without vinegar, the jellyfish stings continue to attack and destroy the victim’s flesh."

As a previous poster said, the safety of tourists does not appear to be the main concern - the main concern seems to be to make sure that tourists are not scared away - there are few enough of them as it is in spite of official figures to the contrary!

Regarding your statement that: "there are few enough of them as it is in spite of official figures to the contrary!"

So, how much lower are the true figures from the official figures?

Substantially! I don't have access to actual figures, but you don't have to be a mathematical genius to work it out. Just ask any hotel, bar or restaurant owner and they will tell you the same. If you don't believe them, just have a look for yourself if you are in a position to do so. If you are a first time visitor, you will not know the difference, but if you compare the number of people now on the streets and in the bars, cafes, restaurants etc to the numbers 2 or 3 years ago there is a significant decrease in numbers. And yes, I know it's low season, but a few of us ex pats have never seen it as quiet. And don't tell me that they have all gone to Esan as one media source reported!

Edited October 7, 2015 by sambum

[botfly]

^{A potentially relevant follow up:}

^{Here's an interesting review about zinc gluconate powder on amazon from 'Farm Girl'}

http://www.amazon.com/NutraBio-Zinc-Gluconate-Powder-Grams/dp/B00333920A

^{By Farm Girl on December 10, 2014}

^{Verified Purchase}

^{Ok, so I bought this not to take as an internal supplement, though it very well may be great for that. I purchased this for insect bites and Oh boy does it do the job!! Living in the deep south fire ants are trouble and even though we are aware of the mounds, occasionally one of us is doing something and not paying attention, then voila a foot full of ants and the bites. This happened the other day in the garden, I immediately put about a tsp of the zinc gluconate powder in my palm and added enough water to make a paste and slathered it all over my foot. What relief, almost no itch (what little there was went away quickly), no fire burning sensation at all. I just left it on for hours (this may or not be necessary I was just busy) happily to my surprise there were no ugly bumps the next day that usually happen with fire ant bites. And no itch later on. Everyone should have some of this in their first aid kit or purse even. Supposed to work for wasp/ hornet/ bee stings, jellyfish stings as well, but not tested by me yet. I really appreciate that it contains NO fillers or any other ingredients, just 100% zinc gluconate.}

Update: July 16, 2015- Well I can say for sure that this does indeed work for wasp stings!! Got tagged just an hour or so ago. Within just a few minutes the horrible burning was gone to just a dull ache, within another 3 or so minutes that was about gone also. I did notice a slight bit of pain returning once the paste dried, so I dabbed it a bit with more water and the pain subsided again. Have continued to keep it just a bit moist and no pain at all. Very minimal swelling. Usually I look like I have a half a ping pong ball under the skin when I get stung by a wasp, but this time, if I did not know it I might not even notice the swelling and it is on my wrist. Wonderful stuff!

Where can you buy that and what's the brand or what do you look for? Sounds great.

[evadgib]

I'd like to know more about this lot; having never heard of them until today:

Jet Ski club president Withaya Suksom, said he was alerted of a large number of box jellyfishes in the sea of Lamai beach by residents and club members yesterday.

If they're anything like what masquerades as a lawyers society on the island I wouldn't be at all surprised.

RIP to the deceased.

Edited October 7, 2015 by evadgib

[Rimmer]

Off topic posts about Pattaya removed

[HerbalEd]

"They were given primary care by rescue workers of Samui municipal rescue centre with vinegar to relieve their pains," - this is deeply disturbing as that is NOT what the vinegar is for....let's hope this is bad reporting and not bad training as regards the primary carers.

Were there signs on the beach and were there vinegar stations?

This is one of the most popular beaches in Thailand, in an area that is well within the region of box jellies - in Oz, there would be nets and the season clearly demarcated.

The more we hear of box jellies in Thailand, the more I'm reminded of the plot of "Jaws 1"

"They were given primary care by rescue workers of Samui municipal rescue centre with vinegar to relieve their pains, and later rushed to Bangkok Samui hospital."

And from later IN THE SAME ARTICLE!!! :-

"Experts say that the only treatment for box jellyfish is common vinegar. The vinegar does nothing to dull the pain but it does combat the toxicity. Without vinegar, the jellyfish stings continue to attack and destroy the victim’s flesh."

As a previous poster said, the safety of tourists does not appear to be the main concern - the main concern seems to be to make sure that tourists are not scared away - there are few enough of them as it is in spite of official figures to the contrary!

Regarding your statement that: "there are few enough of them as it is in spite of official figures to the contrary!"

So, how much lower are the true figures from the official figures?

Substantially! I don't have access to actual figures, but you don't have to be a mathematical genius to work it out. Just ask any hotel, bar or restaurant owner and they will tell you the same. If you don't believe them, just have a look for yourself if you are in a position to do so. If you are a first time visitor, you will not know the difference, but if you compare the number of people now on the streets and in the bars, cafes, restaurants etc to the numbers 2 or 3 years ago there is a significant decrease in numbers. And yes, I know it's low season, but a few of us ex pats have never seen it as quiet. And don't tell me that they have all gone to Esan as one media source reported!

I've been a very regular visitor to Thailand for 30-plus years and have been living here 9 months/year for the past 5 years. I have a home in Hua Hin and regularly visit my condo in BKK, Suk. Soi 10. I have no stats but it does not appear to me that tourism is down from normal this time of year.

That's what I see. Your experience obviously varies.

[Lite Beer]

12 people attacked by box jellyfish in Koh Samui this year

KOH SAMUI: -- Twelve people have so far been attacked by box jellyfish since this year in Koh Samui alone, including a German tourist who died from the attack after she swam in the sea off Lamai beach Tuesday night.

Samui district chief officer Paiboon O-mark on Wednesday held a meeting with district health, municipal and fishery officials and hotel operators to discuss preventive and remedial measures pertaining to box jellyfish attacks.

It was concluded that bottles of vinegar would be hung on poles to be erected on various spots on the beach which are easily visible and can be immediately used in case someone was attacked by the highly poisonous jellyfish.

Health officials will hold training courses for officials and hotel staff on first aid to treat victims from the attacks. Moreover, beach hotel operators have been asked to erect protective nets in the sea to prevent box jellyfish from getting into the swimming areas and to put up warning signs.

As for the 12 victims, three were Thai tourists and the rest foreign tourists. Two incidents occurred in Ang Thong island, one in Lipa Noi beach, three in Lamai beach, three in Chaweng beach and three in Mae Nam beach.

As for the latest victim, a German tourist, Mr Paiboon said that first aid treatment was unable to save her life because about 80 percent of her body was attacked by the box jellyfish.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/12-people-attacked-by-box-jellyfish-in-koh-samui-this-year

-- Thai PBS 2015-10-07

[louse1953]

Sea is more and more dangerous and some stupid people keep telling that it's fine just like its fine to drive motorbkes in Thailand !

choose where you want to de, in the sea or on the road ? I choose my bed !!!

Well stay there,all day and night.

[limbos]

DO NOT use vinegar on bow jellyfish it makes things even worse !

That is absolutely nonsense, where do you get that ill informed information from?

In case you're referring to research done recently in Australia, here's the answer to that from Dr. Lisa Gershwin, box jelly fish researcher;

"There were several things questionable about the research, in no particular order:

The authors forced nematocyst discharge with an electrical current. The nematocysts fired into a membrane, then venom was collected under the membrane, then vinegar was applied to the tentacles, then they collected venom again from under the membrane. They found that 60% more venom was obtained in the second round. They therefore concluded that the vinegar was causing vinegar to come out of the already discharged nematocysts.

First, There is no evidence that demonstrates that electrocuted tentacles behave like natural stings. In particular, it seems more likely that natural stings leave little venom behind, whereas electrocuted tentacles are likely to cause abortive firing, or incomplete firing, thus quite possibly leaving some venom behind. If this is the case, then the model does not represent real stings.

Second, their experimental design did not control for venom initially discharged into the membrane or pooled above the membrane, only what came through with each wash. Therefore it may be that some venom was lodged in or above the membrane from the initial electrocution, and was subsequently recovered by the second wash, giving misleading conclusions.

Third, the post-vinegar recovery was of very low venom potency, suggesting that it was diluted, supporting the idea that the venom came from in or above the membrane, not from secondary discharge. In this case, vinegar would be a better solvent than originally realised, and therefore an even better first aid option.

Fourth, and perhaps most importantly, the percentages tell the whole story. The authors estimated that 20-30% of nematocysts fire initially (I estimate 10-20%, but the difference doesn't matter for this argument). So 60% of 20-30% is about 10-15% additional venom load. But even if their hypothesis turns out to be entirely correct, that still leaves the other 70-80% of nematocysts armed and dangerous. It's that 70-80% that you want to disable, not the 10-15%. So if vinegar causes 10-15% more but it also causes 70-80% less, then by using vinegar you're still some 60-70% better off to use vinegar. Sorry my math is probably not so good this time of night (2am), but you get the idea hopefully.

Finally, much of the media quoted one of the authors of the study as saying that they found that vinegar makes stings worse. That's not true -- that's not what they found. They didn't test stings. They tested electrocuted tentacles in a lab. But their incomplete procedures even make what they did find debatable. "

Vinegar is at this moment the best solution for box jelly stings

[limbos]

Seems a lot of people are happily assuming a jellyfish is a jellyfish is a jellyfish.

You're in the tropics now boys and things are a little different here.

If you want to live longer obey the cardinal rules - no swimming in the wet season and no swimming in calm water.

Box jellies avoid rough water or surf and tend to move out of the creeks into more open water during the wet season.

Trust me, a Portuguese man'o'war or some other slightly annoying stinger from the "old country" simply isn't in the same league as chironex fleckeri which is the most venomous of the box jellyfish - and one of the most venomous animals on the planet.

Death can follow rapidly from a decent encounter.

I know from first hand experience that vinegar doesn't take the pain away..it's purpose is to stop any unfired nodes from releasing venom which they will do readily (even when the tentacle is broken off) especially if people use the old remedy of rubbing the area with sand,

Use quack treatments at your peril.

The sting marks on the young lady are a little unusual as c.fleckeri tend to be more ladderlike in marking.

Good observation mudcrab. I initially thought it was Chironex fleckeri, but got corrected by Lisa Gershwin, supposedly there's a new species which comes close to C fleckeri but is best referred at this moment as 'Thai box jelly fish', by lack of proper research done on this species, to the best of my current knowledge.

[limbos]

This is very painful for me to read this as my friend passed away on July 31st in Koh Phagan at the Full Moon party after being stung by a box jellyfish. Thailand need to do something about that it's been going on for years now. I hope this girl didn't suffer for long. I wish my condoleances to her family and friends, this is a terrible tragedy

I have lived on Samui for past 8 years and only ever heard of one Box Jelly fish death, certainly not this one on 31st july. Just goes to show how much they will 'hush' things up for money.

Since 13 years I've been involved in box jelly fish awareness around Koh Samui, but to the very best of my knowledge, this is only the second fatality on Koh Samui, after an incident in 1999 on Chaweng Beach. There are plenty of incidents each year, but none lethal on Samui, except for these two. Please correct me if I'm wrong and can proof otherwise, many experts, Thai and international will be very interested to hear.

[limbos]

Queensland Australia have a very serious problem with Box Jelly Fish stings at certain times of the year. The treatment always recommended and used by the lifeguards is Vinegar. However researchers at James Cook University and Cairns far north Queensland hospital. find that vinegar increases the venom load.

When the jelly fish venom balls are fired off, they release at between 20% and 30%. The application of vinegar will increase this to between 50% and 60%.

This research has been published in the Australian journal of Diving and Hyperbaric Medicine.

Please read my answer two posts above, or for your convenience, as mentioned by Dr. Lisa Gershwin, box jelly fish researcher;

"There were several things questionable about the research, in no particular order:

The authors forced nematocyst discharge with an electrical current. The nematocysts fired into a membrane, then venom was collected under the membrane, then vinegar was applied to the tentacles, then they collected venom again from under the membrane. They found that 60% more venom was obtained in the second round. They therefore concluded that the vinegar was causing vinegar to come out of the already discharged nematocysts.

First, There is no evidence that demonstrates that electrocuted tentacles behave like natural stings. In particular, it seems more likely that natural stings leave little venom behind, whereas electrocuted tentacles are likely to cause abortive firing, or incomplete firing, thus quite possibly leaving some venom behind. If this is the case, then the model does not represent real stings.

Second, their experimental design did not control for venom initially discharged into the membrane or pooled above the membrane, only what came through with each wash. Therefore it may be that some venom was lodged in or above the membrane from the initial electrocution, and was subsequently recovered by the second wash, giving misleading conclusions.

Third, the post-vinegar recovery was of very low venom potency, suggesting that it was diluted, supporting the idea that the venom came from in or above the membrane, not from secondary discharge. In this case, vinegar would be a better solvent than originally realised, and therefore an even better first aid option.

Fourth, and perhaps most importantly, the percentages tell the whole story. The authors estimated that 20-30% of nematocysts fire initially (I estimate 10-20%, but the difference doesn't matter for this argument). So 60% of 20-30% is about 10-15% additional venom load. But even if their hypothesis turns out to be entirely correct, that still leaves the other 70-80% of nematocysts armed and dangerous. It's that 70-80% that you want to disable, not the 10-15%. So if vinegar causes 10-15% more but it also causes 70-80% less, then by using vinegar you're still some 60-70% better off to use vinegar. Sorry my math is probably not so good this time of night (2am), but you get the idea hopefully.

Finally, much of the media quoted one of the authors of the study as saying that they found that vinegar makes stings worse. That's not true -- that's not what they found. They didn't test stings. They tested electrocuted tentacles in a lab. But their incomplete procedures even make what they did find debatable. '