Immigration Promenada One Stop Service v2

[Thailand]

Ignoring the law and paying the 2,000 baht fine doesn't achieve anything, because you will still be required to submit the form even though you pay the fine.

According to the Immigration website and the Immigration Act, the TM30 can be presented in person, or by an appointed person, or by mail.

I completed my TM30 in the absence of my landlord, sent it by EMS, pre registered return envelope (along with copies of my landlords ID card and Tabian Baan, signed with contact number) and the tear off receipt of the notification was returned 5 days later.

EDIT: According to the Chiang Mai Immigration website (FAQ) the TM30 can be submitted by an agent, in person, or by registered mail.

2. Question : What do the house-master/owner or possessor of the residence have to do,if the alien granted temporary stay in Thailand has stayed in his/her house/residence? (Is it possible for an agent to do for?)

Answer : He/She (The owner of the residence) must notify (by the Form TM.30) to the competent official Of the Immigration Office located in the same area of that house/residence within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien. However, such notification could be made in person or by an agent or sent with completed Form( TM.30) by registered post.

http://www.chiangmaiimm.com/en/frequently-asked-questions-faq-.html

No wonder there is confusion, appears as usual there is a left hand/ right hand problem at immigration.

Which office did you post the TM30 to?

Thanks

[ThaiPauly]

My wife was told by an Immigration captain to take it to the airport offices, though I believe that you can do a TM 30 at either office. But at the airport immigration she was in and out in 5 minutes.

[Sparkles]

My wife was told by an Immigration captain to take it to the airport offices, though I believe that you can do a TM 30 at either office. But at the airport immigration she was in and out in 5 minutes.

Presumably without a fine if it it only took 5 mins.However others report that have been fined.Is it some sort of lottery depending on who you speak too?

Monday is decision day for us, registered mail,Promenada or Airport Office or forget about it.Any bookmakers out there that could form odds on getting out of this latest nonsense unscathed.

[ThaiPauly]

No fine Sparkles, just a stern warning to make sure she keeps up to date regarding my whereabouts.I know it'a pain in the butt to go through these hoops....but have you seen the weather forecast in the UK? It's freezing this weekend and snow is forecast...brŕrrrrr

[Lizard2010]

No fine Sparkles, just a stern warning to make sure she keeps up to date regarding my whereabouts.I know it'a pain in the butt to go through these hoops....but have you seen the weather forecast in the UK? It's freezing this weekend and snow is forecast...brŕrrrrr

Was Snowing last week up the North East from the UK where i originally came from

When i let the UK Many Moons ago

We always used to have Snow for Xmas day

[Sparkles]

No fine Sparkles, just a stern warning to make sure she keeps up to date regarding my whereabouts.I know it'a pain in the butt to go through these hoops....but have you seen the weather forecast in the UK? It's freezing this weekend and snow is forecast...brŕrrrrr

Thanks but in Oz its summer, blue skies and 30 degrees.Ok we should keep score, fines v stern warnings. Ask for "stern warning" officer if you pay a visit !

[NancyL]

Nancy - thanks for your reply - however, would reporting to fill in the form at Prom involve getting there at dawn, standing in line for half the day, etc etc? My husband is still not able to be left alone for more than a reasonably short time as he's totally wheelchair-bound and has need of assistance getting onto his bed, off onto his wheelchair, into the bathroom ,etc etc, and his understandable depression is resulting in a loss of memory over due times to take medications, etc.

Would it be possible for a visa agent to make the report under the circumstances? Anyway, sooner rather than later and as soon as he is stronger,, my husband is going to have to return to the UK for further treatment - perhaps it's better to just leave this and deal with it promptly when and if he returns? It's unfortunate that a previously ignored rule (or so it seems from the above posts) might well be enforced even in the most difficult of circumstances. Still, guess that's how it is nowadays.

Last question - is it worth my emailing the Brit Consulate about this issue and how it may affect other disabled or sick expat retirees and their carers, or was your request aimed just at visa applications and 90-day reports?

There is no need to queue to submit a TM30. Just be sure to arrive before 11 am or after 1:15 pm and before 3 pm because it does take them a little while to do the paperwork and you don't want to hit their lunch hour.

If your husband is going to leave Thailand soon, then just forget about it. They don't check for TM30s at the airport.

Or just forget about it if the 2000 baht isn't a big hardship to risk them doing a spot check next time he does 90 day report or visa extension.

My advice to contact the Embassy or write letters to the editor is in regard to the long wait times and preferential treatment the G4T agents receive, not in regard to changing a law like the requirement for a TM30 being on file. It's reasonable to expect conditions at Chiang Mai Immigration to be on par with the rest of the country. It's really tilting at wind-mills to try to change laws.

I don`t get it, don`t you mean the preferential treatment all the agents receive? If one particular agent receives preferential treatment, that means we receive preferential treatment by using that agency and it must be more beneficial using that agency over and above all the others for the people that prefer using an agency during this present crisis and it`s only a stone`s throw from immigration.

Considering, the GT4 seems the best of the worse and would prefer it to be left alone, because it seems to be the most convenient choice for the time being, so why go and mess it up before the situation is improved at immigration? It`s cutting the nose off to spite the face.

G4T agents don't have to wait in the morning queue.

All other agents have to send a representative to wait in the morning queue to obtain a queue card for a client who is making application that day. They have to obtain a Power of Attorney form from the client, and have one person for each client at Immigration at 5 am to be in the queue.

G4T does no such thing. A client can show up at their office as late as 11 am and be ushered into Immigration around 1:30 - 2 pm to receive their passport with their retirement extension. No G4T agent had to wait in the morning queue for them that morning.

This is one reason the other agents are charging more than G4T. They need to have staff show up early to get a queue number for each client. No one comes into the G4T "office" (or I think now they may just be sitting at a table near their old office) until 8:30 am to serve people who didn't get a queue ticket that morning.

G4T has no real office, no website, they don't answer their phones consistently or professionally. Nor do they answer the emails sent to the address on the cards their people sometimes distribute. Someone asked about what happens if an agent looses your passport or isn't successful in getting your extension. Do you pay them up front? Sure you do! Do you get a receipt or even know how to contact these people when you give them your passport in the morning? Absolutely not! So, what happens if you give them your passport in the morning and they tell you to come back at 2 pm to pick up your passport with your retirement extension? And you come back to find that there has finally been a crack-down on all this nonsense going on? Another letter to the Bangkok Post. Perhaps a visit from the Governor of CM, or an Ambassador or something where they don't dare operate that day. Hmm....... who ya' gonna call?

[Liquorice]

Faz,

In one post you state that you successfully posted your TM30 Form and received the confirmation slip.

Then in a later post, it states CMX IM is not accepting TM30 by post

Please advise

Ignoring the law and paying the 2,000 baht fine doesn't achieve anything, because you will still be required to submit the form even though you pay the fine.

According to the Immigration website and the Immigration Act, the TM30 can be presented in person, or by an appointed person, or by mail.

I completed my TM30 in the absence of my landlord, sent it by EMS, pre registered return envelope (along with copies of my landlords ID card and Tabian Baan, signed with contact number) and the tear off receipt of the notification was returned 5 days later.

EDIT: According to the Chiang Mai Immigration website (FAQ) the TM30 can be submitted by an agent, in person, or by registered mail.

2. Question : What do the house-master/owner or possessor of the residence have to do,if the alien granted temporary stay in Thailand has stayed in his/her house/residence? (Is it possible for an agent to do for?)

Answer : He/She (The owner of the residence) must notify (by the Form TM.30) to the competent official Of the Immigration Office located in the same area of that house/residence within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien. However, such notification could be made in person or by an agent or sent with completed Form( TM.30) by registered post.

http://www.chiangmaiimm.com/en/frequently-asked-questions-faq-.html

No wonder there is confusion, appears as usual there is a left hand/ right hand problem at immigration.

Which office did you post the TM30 to?

Thanks

I posted mine to Amnat.

See post #54 from the almost identical thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/818144-tm-30-form/page-3

[mamborobert]

Like a broken record playing the same track over and over.

When you can show that removing or limiting G4T (and other agents) has or will lead to a significant and demonstrable improvement in Immi then it might have some relevance.

Immi were according to many bad before are bad now...and G4T (and other agents perhaps to a lesser degree) quicken the process. If they are not used there will be more people at Imm,i with more incomplete applications leading to greater delays

If this the plan you have?.....to break immigration through a deluge of numbers and damn anyone that wants to use an agent be up front about it...perhaps .in the "hope" that it sees the error of its ways and gets funding, staffing, procedures etc etc. I'm sure that will work .....not

How about focusing on fixing what you consider to be the problems with Immi instead of confusing with agents and those that want to use them, and TM forms etc that are increasingly looking like a ......an attempt to "blame" or distract as you have been unable to fix what you consider to be the Immi problem.....so far all we have is 26 pages of smoke and mirrors.

Edited November 28, 2015 by mamborobert

[hml367]

G4T agents don't have to wait in the morning queue.

All other agents have to send a representative to wait in the morning queue to obtain a queue card for a client who is making application that day. They have to obtain a Power of Attorney form from the client, and have one person for each client at Immigration at 5 am to be in the queue.

G4T does no such thing. A client can show up at their office as late as 11 am and be ushered into Immigration around 1:30 - 2 pm to receive their passport with their retirement extension. No G4T agent had to wait in the morning queue for them that morning.

This is one reason the other agents are charging more than G4T. They need to have staff show up early to get a queue number for each client. No one comes into the G4T "office" (or I think now they may just be sitting at a table near their old office) until 8:30 am to serve people who didn't get a queue ticket that morning.

G4T has no real office, no website, they don't answer their phones consistently or professionally. Nor do they answer the emails sent to the address on the cards their people sometimes distribute. Someone asked about what happens if an agent looses your passport or isn't successful in getting your extension. Do you pay them up front? Sure you do! Do you get a receipt or even know how to contact these people when you give them your passport in the morning? Absolutely not! So, what happens if you give them your passport in the morning and they tell you to come back at 2 pm to pick up your passport with your retirement extension? And you come back to find that there has finally been a crack-down on all this nonsense going on? Another letter to the Bangkok Post. Perhaps a visit from the Governor of CM, or an Ambassador or something where they don't dare operate that day. Hmm....... who ya' gonna call?

When did other agents start requiring a power of attorney? I have never given a power of attorney to the agency handling my extensions and 90 reports.

I should add that I have never been in the new office at Promenada.

Edited November 28, 2015 by hml367

[cyberfarang]

Nancy - thanks for your reply - however, would reporting to fill in the form at Prom involve getting there at dawn, standing in line for half the day, etc etc? My husband is still not able to be left alone for more than a reasonably short time as he's totally wheelchair-bound and has need of assistance getting onto his bed, off onto his wheelchair, into the bathroom ,etc etc, and his understandable depression is resulting in a loss of memory over due times to take medications, etc.

Would it be possible for a visa agent to make the report under the circumstances? Anyway, sooner rather than later and as soon as he is stronger,, my husband is going to have to return to the UK for further treatment - perhaps it's better to just leave this and deal with it promptly when and if he returns? It's unfortunate that a previously ignored rule (or so it seems from the above posts) might well be enforced even in the most difficult of circumstances. Still, guess that's how it is nowadays.

Last question - is it worth my emailing the Brit Consulate about this issue and how it may affect other disabled or sick expat retirees and their carers, or was your request aimed just at visa applications and 90-day reports?

There is no need to queue to submit a TM30. Just be sure to arrive before 11 am or after 1:15 pm and before 3 pm because it does take them a little while to do the paperwork and you don't want to hit their lunch hour.

If your husband is going to leave Thailand soon, then just forget about it. They don't check for TM30s at the airport.

Or just forget about it if the 2000 baht isn't a big hardship to risk them doing a spot check next time he does 90 day report or visa extension.

My advice to contact the Embassy or write letters to the editor is in regard to the long wait times and preferential treatment the G4T agents receive, not in regard to changing a law like the requirement for a TM30 being on file. It's reasonable to expect conditions at Chiang Mai Immigration to be on par with the rest of the country. It's really tilting at wind-mills to try to change laws.

I don`t get it, don`t you mean the preferential treatment all the agents receive? If one particular agent receives preferential treatment, that means we receive preferential treatment by using that agency and it must be more beneficial using that agency over and above all the others for the people that prefer using an agency during this present crisis and it`s only a stone`s throw from immigration.

Considering, the GT4 seems the best of the worse and would prefer it to be left alone, because it seems to be the most convenient choice for the time being, so why go and mess it up before the situation is improved at immigration? It`s cutting the nose off to spite the face.

G4T agents don't have to wait in the morning queue.

All other agents have to send a representative to wait in the morning queue to obtain a queue card for a client who is making application that day. They have to obtain a Power of Attorney form from the client, and have one person for each client at Immigration at 5 am to be in the queue.

G4T does no such thing. A client can show up at their office as late as 11 am and be ushered into Immigration around 1:30 - 2 pm to receive their passport with their retirement extension. No G4T agent had to wait in the morning queue for them that morning.

This is one reason the other agents are charging more than G4T. They need to have staff show up early to get a queue number for each client. No one comes into the G4T "office" (or I think now they may just be sitting at a table near their old office) until 8:30 am to serve people who didn't get a queue ticket that morning.

G4T has no real office, no website, they don't answer their phones consistently or professionally. Nor do they answer the emails sent to the address on the cards their people sometimes distribute. Someone asked about what happens if an agent looses your passport or isn't successful in getting your extension. Do you pay them up front? Sure you do! Do you get a receipt or even know how to contact these people when you give them your passport in the morning? Absolutely not! So, what happens if you give them your passport in the morning and they tell you to come back at 2 pm to pick up your passport with your retirement extension? And you come back to find that there has finally been a crack-down on all this nonsense going on? Another letter to the Bangkok Post. Perhaps a visit from the Governor of CM, or an Ambassador or something where they don't dare operate that day. Hmm....... who ya' gonna call?

I couldn`t give a castlemaine xxxx about the struggles of other agencies and it`s up to me which one I choose, why should you and I care or anyone else? And if this GT4 gets catapulted out of business, then people choosing to go the agency route will have to pay extra with a more complicated service. Where is the logic in that?

I think you have done and are doing a great service for us expatriarnos and grateful, but I thought the objective was to improve the slot system at immigration, not to discredit any particular agencies that seems to be diverting this onto another track and starting to wonder what your strategy is?

This needs a delegation that includes Thais with clout to represent us. Discrediting immigration and agencies is the wrong approach and can backfire making the situation much worse if not careful.

[hml367]

It seems to me it is much worse already.

[Lizard2010]

Like a broken record playing the same track over and over.

When you can show that removing or limiting G4T (and other agents) has or will lead to a significant and demonstrable improvement in Immi then it might have some relevance.

Immi were according to many bad before are bad now...and G4T (and other agents perhaps to a lesser degree) quicken the process. If they are not used there will be more people at Imm,i with more incomplete applications leading to greater delays

If this the plan you have?.....to break immigration through a deluge of numbers and damn anyone that wants to use an agent be up front about it...perhaps .in the "hope" that it sees the error of its ways and gets funding, staffing, procedures etc etc. I'm sure that will work .....not

How about focusing on fixing what you consider to be the problems with Immi instead of confusing with agents and those that want to use them, and TM forms etc that are increasingly looking like a ......an attempt to "blame" or distract as you have been unable to fix what you consider to be the Immi problem.....so far all we have is 26 pages of smoke and mirrors.

The only way it will get fixed if all Visa and anything else that is needed to be done is done in the Location

Who know when this will be done

With the staffing maybe they need more people and are competent in their job

Who know who is making these decisions

You keeping going on about G4T

So do you know why they are given Priority compared to the other Visa Agents who have to line up?

What i have said is factual

I am sick and tired of hearing about G4T too

Until all Visa Agents are treated the same as other visa Agents nothing will change

Some days it is busier than others for the Visa Extenuations and the 90 Reeporting

Maybe someone need a good swift kick up the rear or Transferred who know

Only time will tell

[NancyL]

Imm. started to require visa agents to have a POA from their clients when they moved to Prom. At that time, they said they were not going to give priority to visa agents and they were going to have to wait in the queue just like regular customers, one agent for each of their customers.

Why do I go on and on about G4T? Well, as long as they are operating and we gladly pay them and siphon money away from the legitimate visa agents, then the management of Imm. has no incentive to fix the problems. We're not allowed to speculate about the ownership or do the math about their income, but when Col. Rutjapong told me that Bangkok says it would cost nearly 300,000 baht to "fix" the on-line appointment queue and no money was available, I could only think about how long it takes G4T to bring in that amount. Not very long.

[hml367]

Thank you for the answer, NancyL.

[cyberfarang]

Imm. started to require visa agents to have a POA from their clients when they moved to Prom. At that time, they said they were not going to give priority to visa agents and they were going to have to wait in the queue just like regular customers, one agent for each of their customers.

Why do I go on and on about G4T? Well, as long as they are operating and we gladly pay them and siphon money away from the legitimate visa agents, then the management of Imm. has no incentive to fix the problems. We're not allowed to speculate about the ownership or do the math about their income, but when Col. Rutjapong told me that Bangkok says it would cost nearly 300,000 baht to "fix" the on-line appointment queue and no money was available, I could only think about how long it takes G4T to bring in that amount. Not very long.

I fail to understand your logic about legitimate visa agents? I don`t have a clue who the other agents are or how they operate, do you? And I guess they must be raking it in too.

Even if that GT4 gets closed down things at immigration won`t improve, it will just mean one less agent and one less option. I thought you were against using agents not promoting them? If busy bodies do get the GT4 shut down, I don`t think they`ll get any thanks for it.

Who are you actually battling for, better services at immigration or fairness for the other agents?

[HenryB]

Nancy - thanks for your reply - however, would reporting to fill in the form at Prom involve getting there at dawn, standing in line for half the day, etc etc? My husband is still not able to be left alone for more than a reasonably short time as he's totally wheelchair-bound and has need of assistance getting onto his bed, off onto his wheelchair, into the bathroom ,etc etc, and his understandable depression is resulting in a loss of memory over due times to take medications, etc.

Would it be possible for a visa agent to make the report under the circumstances? Anyway, sooner rather than later and as soon as he is stronger,, my husband is going to have to return to the UK for further treatment - perhaps it's better to just leave this and deal with it promptly when and if he returns? It's unfortunate that a previously ignored rule (or so it seems from the above posts) might well be enforced even in the most difficult of circumstances. Still, guess that's how it is nowadays.

Last question - is it worth my emailing the Brit Consulate about this issue and how it may affect other disabled or sick expat retirees and their carers, or was your request aimed just at visa applications and 90-day reports?

There is no need to queue to submit a TM30. Just be sure to arrive before 11 am or after 1:15 pm and before 3 pm because it does take them a little while to do the paperwork and you don't want to hit their lunch hour.

If your husband is going to leave Thailand soon, then just forget about it. They don't check for TM30s at the airport.

Or just forget about it if the 2000 baht isn't a big hardship to risk them doing a spot check next time he does 90 day report or visa extension.

My advice to contact the Embassy or write letters to the editor is in regard to the long wait times and preferential treatment the G4T agents receive, not in regard to changing a law like the requirement for a TM30 being on file. It's reasonable to expect conditions at Chiang Mai Immigration to be on par with the rest of the country. It's really tilting at wind-mills to try to change laws.

I don`t get it, don`t you mean the preferential treatment all the agents receive? If one particular agent receives preferential treatment, that means we receive preferential treatment by using that agency and it must be more beneficial using that agency over and above all the others for the people that prefer using an agency during this present crisis and it`s only a stone`s throw from immigration.

Considering, the GT4 seems the best of the worse and would prefer it to be left alone, because it seems to be the most convenient choice for the time being, so why go and mess it up before the situation is improved at immigration? It`s cutting the nose off to spite the face.

GT4 best and cheapest and easyest to use

[sticklee]

There is a visa service shop just west of the US Embassy, past the fruit market and before the traffic light. Called Star Visa Service. I don't know anything about their service, just noticed it riding past.

[northernjohn]

Like a broken record playing the same track over and over.

When you can show that removing or limiting G4T (and other agents) has or will lead to a significant and demonstrable improvement in Immi then it might have some relevance.

Immi were according to many bad before are bad now...and G4T (and other agents perhaps to a lesser degree) quicken the process. If they are not used there will be more people at Imm,i with more incomplete applications leading to greater delays

If this the plan you have?.....to break immigration through a deluge of numbers and damn anyone that wants to use an agent be up front about it...perhaps .in the "hope" that it sees the error of its ways and gets funding, staffing, procedures etc etc. I'm sure that will work .....not

How about focusing on fixing what you consider to be the problems with Immi instead of confusing with agents and those that want to use them, and TM forms etc that are increasingly looking like a ......an attempt to "blame" or distract as you have been unable to fix what you consider to be the Immi problem.....so far all we have is 26 pages of smoke and mirrors.

Smoke and mirrors with a little bit of what IF thrown in.

It is a shame people don't use G4T. They do have an office I was there yesterday and they were just waiting for furniture the girl was out front and the lights were on in it they even had their name on the door. There was a room next door to it full of furnature in fact jammed pact with it. I think it was some of what they have to put out side.

It took G4T less than 5 minutes to process me when I used them and the girl who took me in told me she is there at 5:00 in the morning. Why do people want to get rid of a service that takes 5 minutes and go back to one that takes a lot longer? My experience in Thailand is phone them don't expect an e mail reply.

The cost for their services is only 3,000 baht as compared to 5,000 and 5,500 baht. If you feel better using the others by all means use them. Any one you use is going to speed up the service. As for loosing your passport that is a risk you take any time you let some one else have it.

It would be nice to see the thread get back to immigration and stop worrying about who does what and who is making money. To speed up the service use G4T or any other service you like. Mail in your 90 days. As for the staff it would be helpful if they could do more than one thing and when their is no body applying in that department help out in another department.

That would not require more room or staff.

[Tywais]

There is a visa service shop just west of the US Embassy, past the fruit market and before the traffic light. Called Star Visa Service. I don't know anything about their service, just noticed it riding past.

AFAIK they focus mainly on assisting obtaining Visas for other countries. That is, for Thais wishing to travel abroad and other services for them. Also translation services.

[TheAppletons]

Imm. started to require visa agents to have a POA from their clients when they moved to Prom. At that time, they said they were not going to give priority to visa agents and they were going to have to wait in the queue just like regular customers, one agent for each of their customers.

Why do I go on and on about G4T? Well, as long as they are operating and we gladly pay them and siphon money away from the legitimate visa agents, then the management of Imm. has no incentive to fix the problems. We're not allowed to speculate about the ownership or do the math about their income, but when Col. Rutjapong told me that Bangkok says it would cost nearly 300,000 baht to "fix" the on-line appointment queue and no money was available, I could only think about how long it takes G4T to bring in that amount. Not very long.

I fail to understand your logic about legitimate visa agents? I don`t have a clue who the other agents are or how they operate, do you? And I guess they must be raking it in too.

Even if that GT4 gets closed down things at immigration won`t improve, it will just mean one less agent and one less option. I thought you were against using agents not promoting them? If busy bodies do get the GT4 shut down, I don`t think they`ll get any thanks for it.

Who are you actually battling for, better services at immigration or fairness for the other agents?

Then you don't understand a lot. If you haven't yet been able to figure out why G4T exists and why they get preferential treatment, then you won't understand why their existence contributes to the current state of affairs at Promenada.

We're prohibited by the moderators from discussing much of the underlying causation in the publicly viewable portion of the forum but you apparently haven't pieced things together yet regarding behavioral incentives. Until you do, your posts should continue to contain the phrase "I don't have a clue".

(Incidentally, your questioning of other expats' motives wrt Immigration procedures makes you look ignorant and, well, pretty silly.)

[cyberfarang]

Imm. started to require visa agents to have a POA from their clients when they moved to Prom. At that time, they said they were not going to give priority to visa agents and they were going to have to wait in the queue just like regular customers, one agent for each of their customers.

Why do I go on and on about G4T? Well, as long as they are operating and we gladly pay them and siphon money away from the legitimate visa agents, then the management of Imm. has no incentive to fix the problems. We're not allowed to speculate about the ownership or do the math about their income, but when Col. Rutjapong told me that Bangkok says it would cost nearly 300,000 baht to "fix" the on-line appointment queue and no money was available, I could only think about how long it takes G4T to bring in that amount. Not very long.

I fail to understand your logic about legitimate visa agents? I don`t have a clue who the other agents are or how they operate, do you? And I guess they must be raking it in too.

Even if that GT4 gets closed down things at immigration won`t improve, it will just mean one less agent and one less option. I thought you were against using agents not promoting them? If busy bodies do get the GT4 shut down, I don`t think they`ll get any thanks for it.

Who are you actually battling for, better services at immigration or fairness for the other agents?

Then you don't understand a lot. If you haven't yet been able to figure out why G4T exists and why they get preferential treatment, then you won't understand why their existence contributes to the current state of affairs at Promenada.

We're prohibited by the moderators from discussing much of the underlying causation in the publicly viewable portion of the forum but you apparently haven't pieced things together yet regarding behavioral incentives. Until you do, your posts should continue to contain the phrase "I don't have a clue".

(Incidentally, your questioning of other expats' motives wrt Immigration procedures makes you look ignorant and, well, pretty silly.)

I think it`s you that is not getting the point.

I am fully aware of the situation and as far as I am concerned, it all stinks. But nevertheless if you read my earlier posts you will see what my feelings are on the subject. To repeat myself, I don`t think getting rid of one particular agent will improve the situation at immigration no matter who is running the show, it will just mean other agents may receive more customers and maybe winding up immigration who in return will make things even more difficult. I have all ready explained how I think immigration should be tackled, some may agree others may not, and see no point in going over the same subject over and over again.

[northernjohn]

There is a visa service shop just west of the US Embassy, past the fruit market and before the traffic light. Called Star Visa Service. I don't know anything about their service, just noticed it riding past.

AFAIK they focus mainly on assisting obtaining Visas for other countries. That is, for Thais wishing to travel abroad and other services for them. Also translation services.

Star Visa. As you say mainly for Thais. They did how ever handle a friend and his wife's retirement Visa extension. I think it was set up by a Thai friend. They got my wife a Visa for the states. I asked if they could do a one time reentry and they said no.

[Genericnic]

As I read through all these comments, what comes to mind is this:

No one requires us to use a visa agent. We have the option of getting up way to early to secure a spot and, if we are not lucky enough to get up early enough to secure one of the places that day, we have the option of trying the same thing again the following day. For some of us that is not a problem. For some it is. I prefer to sleep late.

If we don't want to go with the first option, we can use a visa agent to assist us so that we don't have to get there before sunrise. If we go that route, we have choices. We can use G4T which I think we will all agree is the cheaper alternative or we can use an agent with a higher cost. For those of us that don't need the handholding that the more expensive agents seem to provide, the lower cost of G4T is most likely the preferred option. For those that require more handholding, they can get it ... at a higher cost. That is their choice as well.

If someone were to manage to get a situation set up like the Japanese community has, that would be a lower cost option than the visa agents (including G4T) are offering and would also eliminate the necessity of the early morning trek to Promenada. I think most of us (though not all based on the comments I read when they were discussing doing that) would consider using such a service. I know I would. I don't mind spending money if I get good value for what I spend.

As far as using the G4T services, I look at it the same way I look at pork. I love eating pork but I don't need to know how the butcher takes care of his business. Same for visa services. If the visa I get using G4T is a legitimate visa that is the same as the ones others get using the higher priced services, then I don't have to know how they take care of their business either.

Just my two cents worth.

David

[NancyL]

Anyone who thinks my motive is anything other than to improve conditions at Imm Prom for expats clearly hasn't been paying attention.

Also, they haven't read my posts on the subject of visa agents -- they serve a legitimate purpose for those who need assistance -- are new to the process, want some hand-holding, etc Just like some people like to take care of their own garden and there are who those like to hire a gardener. Those people deserve a full-service visa agent with a website, email, someone who answers the phone and office where they can go for consultations. There's more to being a visa agent than simply offering a customer the privilege of avoiding the queue.

Where I have a big problem with G4T is with a process that encourages Imm. Prom. customers to use them, with Imm. officers that actually take people by the hand and lead them to them. If Imm Prom is setting up their system to funnel traffic toward G4T, then they're not making the effort to improve conditions for their customers.

The only thing they've done to enhance service is distribute queue tickets to everyone in the queue at opening -- and that was only after the letter to the Bangkok Post a couple weeks ago. Still, they're telling people to come at 5 am. They're not telling customers "no worries, get here at opening and you'll get a queue ticket". All other improvements at that office -- indoor waiting, toilets open early, extra space to wait -- all those enhancements came from the mall, not from Imm.

Those of you that proclaim G4T to be great and "no harm" are simply using them to jump the queue. You're just encouraging the status quo to remain at Imm. Prom.

[Thailand]

Anyone who thinks my motive is anything other than to improve conditions at Imm Prom for expats clearly hasn't been paying attention.

Also, they haven't read my posts on the subject of visa agents -- they serve a legitimate purpose for those who need assistance -- are new to the process, want some hand-holding, etc Just like some people like to take care of their own garden and there are who those like to hire a gardener. Those people deserve a full-service visa agent with a website, email, someone who answers the phone and office where they can go for consultations. There's more to being a visa agent than simply offering a customer the privilege of avoiding the queue.

Where I have a big problem with G4T is with a process that encourages Imm. Prom. customers to use them, with Imm. officers that actually take people by the hand and lead them to them. If Imm Prom is setting up their system to funnel traffic toward G4T, then they're not making the effort to improve conditions for their customers.

The only thing they've done to enhance service is distribute queue tickets to everyone in the queue at opening -- and that was only after the letter to the Bangkok Post a couple weeks ago. Still, they're telling people to come at 5 am. They're not telling customers "no worries, get here at opening and you'll get a queue ticket". All other improvements at that office -- indoor waiting, toilets open early, extra space to wait -- all those enhancements came from the mall, not from Imm.

Those of you that proclaim G4T to be great and "no harm" are simply using them to jump the queue. You're just encouraging the status quo to remain at Imm. Prom.

But sadly it is for sure that by now the ptb are fully aware of what is going on here and simply don't care,or the financial incentives are too lucrative.

[Trujillo]

This may have been mentioned before, but if Chiang Mai immigration is now enforcing an arcane technical requirement -- the need to report your movements (and only Chiang Mai immigration is doing this), then it's pretty clear why they are doing this.

Chalk this up under: Be careful what you wish for.

[Thailand]

This may have been mentioned before, but if Chiang Mai immigration is now enforcing an arcane technical requirement -- the need to report your movements (and only Chiang Mai immigration is doing this), then it's pretty clear why they are doing this.

Chalk this up under: Be careful what you wish for.

It's not just here, but yes, I guess there are many more on the books that are not being enforced and could be resurrected.

[HenryB]

Imm. started to require visa agents to have a POA from their clients when they moved to Prom. At that time, they said they were not going to give priority to visa agents and they were going to have to wait in the queue just like regular customers, one agent for each of their customers.

Why do I go on and on about G4T? Well, as long as they are operating and we gladly pay them and siphon money away from the legitimate visa agents, then the management of Imm. has no incentive to fix the problems. We're not allowed to speculate about the ownership or do the math about their income, but when Col. Rutjapong told me that Bangkok says it would cost nearly 300,000 baht to "fix" the on-line appointment queue and no money was available, I could only think about how long it takes G4T to bring in that amount. Not very long.

I fail to understand your logic about legitimate visa agents? I don`t have a clue who the other agents are or how they operate, do you? And I guess they must be raking it in too.

Even if that GT4 gets closed down things at immigration won`t improve, it will just mean one less agent and one less option. I thought you were against using agents not promoting them? If busy bodies do get the GT4 shut down, I don`t think they`ll get any thanks for it.

Who are you actually battling for, better services at immigration or fairness for the other agents?

Then you don't understand a lot. If you haven't yet been able to figure out why G4T exists and why they get preferential treatment, then you won't understand why their existence contributes to the current state of affairs at Promenada.

We're prohibited by the moderators from discussing much of the underlying causation in the publicly viewable portion of the forum but you apparently haven't pieced things together yet regarding behavioral incentives. Until you do, your posts should continue to contain the phrase "I don't have a clue".

(Incidentally, your questioning of other expats' motives wrt Immigration procedures makes you look ignorant and, well, pretty silly.)

I use GT4 because they are cheaper and easier to use,Likewise I would use the KGB or MI5 or CIA if they will cheaper and easier to use

I ask you do you work for a more expensive harder to use Visa Agent or just like to wast money

[Konini]

Even if that GT4 gets closed down things at immigration won`t improve, it will just mean one less agent and one less option. I thought you were against using agents not promoting them? If busy bodies do get the GT4 shut down, I don`t think they`ll get any thanks for it.

Who are you actually battling for, better services at immigration or fairness for the other agents?

Nothing in Nancy's posts have indicated that she is either opposed to or promotes agencies. Like 99% of us here, she appears to be of the opinion that we should have a choice to do whichever suits us and shouldn't be questioned or ridiculed for that choice.

I'd further say that she is (almost single-handedly) battling for BOTH better services for everyone and a level playing field for all agents.

Just my opinion based on my understanding of what she has written.