EU criticism brings government back to reality

[Eric Loh]

To use one example. The United states in its first hundred years of democracy suffered through civil war, slavery, rampant corruption untill it finally got most of its act together through constutional amendments and generational change to its laws and culture. It took until the 1960's to finaly give the blacks civil rights.

Thailands democracy movement is less than 75 years old. It is now much like the U S going through enormouse change. This coupled with Asian culture makes for many difficult challenges. Rather than ridicule Thai's trying to improve their lot perhaps we should give pause to all the bad things that happened in our own countries prio to getting our act together. Thailand managed even with all its faults to avoid the things that killed millions in neighbouring countries under Pol Pot and the communist dictatorships of Vietnahm and forced military rule of Cambodia. I recon that in spite of what is going on here things are heading in the right direction. Nation building takes time.

There are many countries in Asia that were democractic in lesser time than Thailand. None of these countries have coups and they are flourishing. Your argument is flawed. Don't be fooled by false prophets proclaiming that our democracy is unique. Successive coups happened due to the establishments stance to stay relevant and in power.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[johnmcc6]

I stand corrected. Junkers is from luxembourg. He was however put in with the strong backing of Germany against many voices of oppostion. The individual voter in E U countries have no vote other than to elect their respective governments who in turn vote in the European parliament. If one were dead against what his government voted for too bad. The people only have a vote for their government. A bit like congress , the voice of the people , voting to approve a regulation only to be vetoed by the president. Or Russia using it's veto in the U N when it suits. The little voter at home has no say. So again I say the E U is not elected by popular vote of the people.

[Oziex1]

To use one example. The United states in its first hundred years of democracy suffered through civil war, slavery, rampant corruption untill it finally got most of its act together through constutional amendments and generational change to its laws and culture. It took until the 1960's to finaly give the blacks civil rights.

Thailands democracy movement is less than 75 years old. It is now much like the U S going through enormouse change. This coupled with Asian culture makes for many difficult challenges. Rather than ridicule Thai's trying to improve their lot perhaps we should give pause to all the bad things that happened in our own countries prio to getting our act together. Thailand managed even with all its faults to avoid the things that killed millions in neighbouring countries under Pol Pot and the communist dictatorships of Vietnahm and forced military rule of Cambodia. I recon that in spite of what is going on here things are heading in the right direction. Nation building takes time.

The advancement of the democratic process in Thailand is continually being stalled by the elites using the military to keep things as they were, it would seem there is a fear that allowing the proletariat to have a say, to educate and prosper is not in the best interest of the country or maybe just not in the interest maintaining their status and great wealth.

Recent waffle from the PM includes the use of Siam as the name of the country, previously there have been requests to the good folk to wear traditional garb, to eat rice not bread, to breed buffaloes. I get the impression the Bangkok elites would like to maintain a panorama of a landscape of a long gone past, a past uncontaminated by democracy, human rights, interfering foreigners and a questioning media (albeit pretty tame by western standards).

I could have said it in one word they want to maintain "Feudalism".

[apetley]

lets all not forget that this so called government is ILLEGAL

Is it still illegal after HM officially appointed the General as PM?

[Fat Haggis]

Why is it that it's mostly farangs who left their democratic homelands to come in live in a country where there has been political instability since the 1930's what with all these coups, who seem to have the biggest beef when it comes to Thailands attempts at being democratic ?

Thailand will never in a million Sunday's ever become the same Utopia you all left behind.

[sawadee1947]

well, what an article..... very good, very brave. I hope PM would read and follow. But what comes from him is nothing but hot air

[Emster23]

"junta was floating on cloud nine from the recent trip to the United Nations, where Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha rubbed shoulders with world leaders -" brought to mind a teen age girl at a Kpop concert with backstage pass.....

As far as 'bringing back to reality" there is assumption this government has ever been in reality. Maybe passed through transit lounge, but never actually visited there.

[billd766]

To use one example. The United states in its first hundred years of democracy suffered through civil war, slavery, rampant corruption untill it finally got most of its act together through constutional amendments and generational change to its laws and culture. It took until the 1960's to finaly give the blacks civil rights.

Thailands democracy movement is less than 75 years old. It is now much like the U S going through enormouse change. This coupled with Asian culture makes for many difficult challenges. Rather than ridicule Thai's trying to improve their lot perhaps we should give pause to all the bad things that happened in our own countries prio to getting our act together. Thailand managed even with all its faults to avoid the things that killed millions in neighbouring countries under Pol Pot and the communist dictatorships of Vietnahm and forced military rule of Cambodia. I recon that in spite of what is going on here things are heading in the right direction. Nation building takes time.

There are many countries in Asia that were democractic in lesser time than Thailand. None of these countries have coups and they are flourishing. Your argument is flawed. Don't be fooled by false prophets proclaiming that our democracy is unique. Successive coups happened due to the establishments stance to stay relevant and in power.

Which countries in Asia that were democratic in a shorter time than Thailand? Can you please name them.

[Ceruhe]

as Thailand takes up the position as Asean-EU Coordinator.

Just....why...

[Eric Loh]

To use one example. The United states in its first hundred years of democracy suffered through civil war, slavery, rampant corruption untill it finally got most of its act together through constutional amendments and generational change to its laws and culture. It took until the 1960's to finaly give the blacks civil rights.

Thailands democracy movement is less than 75 years old. It is now much like the U S going through enormouse change. This coupled with Asian culture makes for many difficult challenges. Rather than ridicule Thai's trying to improve their lot perhaps we should give pause to all the bad things that happened in our own countries prio to getting our act together. Thailand managed even with all its faults to avoid the things that killed millions in neighbouring countries under Pol Pot and the communist dictatorships of Vietnahm and forced military rule of Cambodia. I recon that in spite of what is going on here things are heading in the right direction. Nation building takes time.

There are many countries in Asia that were democractic in lesser time than Thailand. None of these countries have coups and they are flourishing. Your argument is flawed. Don't be fooled by false prophets proclaiming that our democracy is unique. Successive coups happened due to the establishments stance to stay relevant and in power.

Which countries in Asia that were democratic in a shorter time than Thailand? Can you please name them.

Our ASEAN peers, Singapore, Malaysia and in Northern Asia; Japan and Taiwan.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

seems that the biggest right that has been suspended by the junta is the rights of the Reds to blow up children with RPG's. Other than that I don't see any real suppression of peoples rights here in Thailand.

Taksin and Yingluck governments both suppressed the press just as much if not more than the junta has done, doesn't anybody remember that?

Thailand is safer and more stable than it has been for a very long time.

[sjaak327]

Not sure which reality.. The EU should sort out its own problems.. No refugee problems here.

Whats that saying dont throw stones if you live in a bunker.

Sent from my c64

Considering those refugees come from outside of the EU, I'm not sure how the EU should sort out their own problems. The way they deal with those refugees is a hell of a lot more in line with human rights than the way the regime has been handling certain refugees in Thailand.

I understand the truth hurts, but it is still the truth.

Edited October 11, 2015 by sjaak327

[Orac]

I stand corrected. Junkers is from luxembourg. He was however put in with the strong backing of Germany against many voices of oppostion. The individual voter in E U countries have no vote other than to elect their respective governments who in turn vote in the European parliament. If one were dead against what his government voted for too bad. The people only have a vote for their government. A bit like congress , the voice of the people , voting to approve a regulation only to be vetoed by the president. Or Russia using it's veto in the U N when it suits. The little voter at home has no say. So again I say the E U is not elected by popular vote of the people.

Not sure how it works in other EU countries but, in the UK, MEPs are voted for directly by the people though few bother. Though the European Commission are appointed it is done by the elected politicians of member states - pretty much the same way as the UK Prime Minister is appointed or Thailand's used to be for that matter.

[kimamey]

Not sure which reality.. The EU should sort out its own problems.. No refugee problems here.

Whats that saying dont throw stones if you live in a bunker.

Sent from my c64

I do love sarcasm. I assume that's what it is.

[TKDfella]

Don't misunderstand me, but I love Thailand and I don't want to leave. But having been here a long time and enjoying my retirement (not without some problems though) I have to admit that the current direction that the government is taking is making me think. All countries have their problems and we all have to adapt but I see a military dictatorship as destroying the very 'Thai-ness' they claim is essential to keep. I did expect that after the UN speeches there would be criticism of the junta and I'm waiting to see if such makes the junta more entrenched or more relaxed. I think the former is going to happen and sadly I can do nothing to change it. It will be a case of 'if you don't like it you know what you can do!' Rightly or wrongly the EU, as may others, have exercised the right to speak their mind and the junta should accept that. Domestically, will it be a case of 'you can fool some of the people...etc etc'...I wonder?

[Muirton]

lets all not forget that this so called government is ILLEGAL

The head of the current administration said astonishingly in this past Friday's "Restoring Happiness" spiel that he was well received at the UN "even though I wasn't elected".

[Muirton]

what is all the fuss about ? Giving Thais true democracy would be like giving a condom to a eunuch, they wouldn't know what to do with it.

That is an incredibly patronising post from someone who probably reaped the benefits of democracy all his life.

Democracy, however, didn't teach him civility or manners.

[Muirton]

seems that the biggest right that has been suspended by the junta is the rights of the Reds to blow up children with RPG's. Other than that I don't see any real suppression of peoples rights here in Thailand.

Taksin and Yingluck governments both suppressed the press just as much if not more than the junta has done, doesn't anybody remember that?

Thailand is safer and more stable than it has been for a very long time.

Police states are always "safer and more stable". What a banal statement.

[Just1Voice]

The United nations. What a joke. Only a handful of the hundreds of countries represented there have democracy. Laced with dictators and corrupt politicians. I would rather live here than in many of the poverty stricken rat holes the U N represents. Just look at what happens to citizens of many of these counties from amputations, stonings, beatings and outright murder. The U N has a real gall complaining about Thailand.

"I would rather live here ..."

Allow me to ask a hypothetical question.

What if "here" some day in the distant future was to be "laced with dictators and corrupt politicians". Would you then leave the LOS?

I thought it already was, and has been for many, many years.

[Srikcir]

lets all not forget that this so called government is ILLEGAL

Is it still illegal after HM officially appointed the General as PM?

Was the endorsed Interim Charter correct in Article 2 that Thailand remained a democratic monarchy as previously cited in the 2007 Constitution?

[MaeJoMTB]

lets all not forget that this so called government is ILLEGAL

Anything the general decides to do is legal if article 44 can override laws

The next real government will hang him for treason.

He has two choices, try to stay in power forever, or grab what he can and run.

Edited October 11, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[farangmick]

Not sure which reality.. The EU should sort out its own problems.. No refugee problems here.

Whats that saying dont throw stones if you live in a bunker.

Sent from my c64

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?

[farangmick]

No head of state, no matter how he came to power, needs to listen to the bloated, corrupt, inefficient EU. The political version of FIFA.

[JAG]

seems that the biggest right that has been suspended by the junta is the rights of the Reds to blow up children with RPG's. Other than that I don't see any real suppression of peoples rights here in Thailand.

Taksin and Yingluck governments both suppressed the press just as much if not more than the junta has done, doesn't anybody remember that?

Thailand is safer and more stable than it has been for a very long time.

Police states are always "safer and more stable". What a banal statement.

As long as you make sure that you do, think and say exactly what the Police want you to.

[Orac]

No head of state, no matter how he came to power, needs to listen to the bloated, corrupt, inefficient EU. The political version of FIFA.

I see no criticism of the Head of State here - just the government.

[sjaak327]

No head of state, no matter how he came to power, needs to listen to the bloated, corrupt, inefficient EU. The political version of FIFA.

Shoot the messenger, with terms that certainly apply to the current government of Thailand, including human rights abuses of said government, aptly pointed out by the EU.

The EU makes an excellent point despite silly attempts to discredited the messenger.

[sjaak327]

lets all not forget that this so called government is ILLEGAL

Anything the general decides to do is legal if article 44 can override laws

The next real government will hang him for treason.

He has two choices, try to stay in power forever, or grab what he can and run.

The amnesty granted by and to the coup makers that is enshrined in the current constitution will carry over to whatever constitution they come up with. So even if the next government wants to hang him for treason, it wouldn't be possible.

[tominbkk]

The EU is not my father.

[bangrak]

It could have been nice, when the 'reality' as perceived by the EU politicians would be ...real, what it IMO isn't at all, especially not when the word 'democracy' is put forward. A lot of des-information I've heard and seen there, coming from some biased self-profitting so-called NGOs, and possibly from lobbyists and PR-men (not only busy in Washington and New York) paid by some well known Thai family! No, not a complot theory, just really much too many 'bits' to be 'just' mis-interpretation and mis-judgement by those EU politicians, and the EU media, and then, where could the manipulation originate, outside of 'people' who could profit from it?