Two-faced Thailand: The ugly side of 'Asia’s gay capital'

[webfact]

Two-Faced Thailand: The Ugly Side Of 'Asia’s Gay Capital'
Dominique Mosbergen
Senior Writer, The Huffington Post

The country welcomes LGBT tourists with open arms, yet it still lacks policies to protect basic human rights.

This is the final part of a 10-part series on LGBT rights in Southeast Asia, which uncovers the challenges facing the LGBT community in the region and highlights the courageous work of activists there.

***

THAILAND: -- At Wat Kreung Tai Wittaya, a Buddhist temple in Chiang Khong, Thailand, transgender teens are being taught to be “more manly.”

“We cannot change all of them but what we can do is to control their behavior to make them understand that they were born as a man … and cannot act like a woman,” Headmaster Phra Pitsanu Witcharato told Agence France Presse in 2011.

At the temple, boys between the ages of 11 and 18 undergo strict training to help them shed their “girlishness.”

“They have rules here that novice monks cannot use powder, make-up, or perfume,” one trans teen said. Students are also not allowed to sing, play music or run around.

About 2.5 percent of LGBT teens in Thailand, a Buddhist-majority country, are forced to enter the monkhood to be “cured,” according to the Foundation for Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Rights and Justice. Some are pushed into undergoing psychological treatment by their families, while others are kicked out of the home.

LGBT people in Thailand are seen by many as “freaks of nature,” activist Naiyana Supapung told the Bangkok Post in 2013.

Full story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lgbt-thailand_5616472ee4b0dbb8000d30a6

-- THE HUFFINGTON POST 2015-10-21

[ezzra]

Proclivity toward the other gender is not something you can wash with a soap or be trained not to

think and behave that day, nor changing the behavior of forced indoctrination into the 'correct"

gender will help, who ever was born with tendencies to swing away from his gender at birth, he or

shee will grow up to be, sooner or later what they were destined to be, Thailand's conservative,

macho and religion doesn't make it easier for the confused one to chose their path in life of fears

of being an out cast and ostracize among their peers.....

[steven100]

............... next

[soalbundy]

Natures way of solving over population

[isanbirder]

Natures way of solving over population

Better than war and plague!

The Huff, as usual, tends to exaggerate. By contrast with the Chiang Khong temple mentioned, other temples are hotbeds of gay sex.

The article tends to blur the differences between gay and transgender. As a gay man in Thailand for almost 25 years, I have met the families of many of my gay friends, and have met with little discrimination.... and this is in the villages, where one would expect people to be more conservative.

Transgender people, through no fault of their own, are more of a problem, largely because people who are wholly one sex or the other don't know how to cope with them. They need sympathy and support from their families, and often don't get it. There seem to be more of them in Thailand, but I suspect the problems are the same wherever they live

[johnnytuc]

Proclivity toward the other gender is not something you can wash with a soap or be trained not to

think and behave that day, nor changing the behavior of forced indoctrination into the 'correct"

gender will help, who ever was born with tendencies to swing away from his gender at birth, he or

shee will grow up to be, sooner or later what they were destined to be, Thailand's conservative,

macho and religion doesn't make it easier for the confused one to chose their path in life of fears

of being an out cast and ostracize among their peers.....

BS ! Whereas I agree with the first part of your post, Are you telling us that that all of Thailands Ladyboys are confused? And that they don't see that changing to swing away from their gender of birth, is a nice little earner in this country's sex tourism industry.....If so then that is an insult to Gays.

[Bakseeda]

And I though Chang Mai was the gay capitol of Asia..... there you go..!

[northernphil]

What a load of tosh ! Transgender is a big part of Thai culture , always has been and not covered up like most other countries have done.

Signed Phil.. Matron , ' Home for wayward girls MaeChan.'

[soalbundy]

 

And I though Chang Mai was the gay capitol of Asia..... there you go..!

 

The fairy kingdom is world wide, it has no capitol.

[reptile91602]

This article is just stupid. So there are a few monasteries and people in Thailand that don't accept lgbt but the vast majority here could care less including the heads of the monasteries. Yes you have to dress like a monk but other than that it is about meditation and following the rules of the monastery, that is it. Thailand is one of the most accepting countries in the world for all of this and so is Buddhism.

[MockingJay]

Anyone or any institution or religion who forces people into becoming something they don't want to be is wrong - simple as that!

[nahkit]

"“They have rules here that novice monks cannot use powder, make-up, or perfume,” one trans teen said. Students are also not allowed to sing, play music or run around."

Don't those rules apply to all monks and nuns rather than just transgenders?

[Patsycat]

A hundred years ago you probably would have got a frontal lobotomy. So think yourselves lucky!!

[spidermike007]

Natures way of solving over population

Better than war and plague!

The Huff, as usual, tends to exaggerate. By contrast with the Chiang Khong temple mentioned, other temples are hotbeds of gay sex.

The article tends to blur the differences between gay and transgender. As a gay man in Thailand for almost 25 years, I have met the families of many of my gay friends, and have met with little discrimination.... and this is in the villages, where one would expect people to be more conservative.

Transgender people, through no fault of their own, are more of a problem, largely because people who are wholly one sex or the other don't know how to cope with them. They need sympathy and support from their families, and often don't get it. There seem to be more of them in Thailand, but I suspect the problems are the same wherever they live

Great to hear your story. And the fact that you have been treated fairly, and with respect. Though I am not gay, I do have many gay and lesbian friends, and often wondered what life was really like here, for those communities. Nice to hear that most are accepting. That has been my experience here too. Much like when I lived in New York City. Very tolerant, and accepting also.

[arrowsdawdle]

Proclivity toward the other gender is not something you can wash with a soap or be trained not to

think and behave that day, nor changing the behavior of forced indoctrination into the 'correct"

gender will help, who ever was born with tendencies to swing away from his gender at birth, he or

shee will grow up to be, sooner or later what they were destined to be, Thailand's conservative,

macho and religion doesn't make it easier for the confused one to chose their path in life of fears

of being an out cast and ostracize among their peers.....

Well first you say it is destined, but then you got it right about it being a path of choice.

[easybullet3]

i have this theory that there so many gay boys in thailand because there are so many single mums.

they dont have the dad around to keep the boy more masculine.

often the mums are quite laid-back in their upbringing, and the mums dont seem to care as much as the dads if the son becomes gay or not.

Thailand is a really open and acdepting country (thanks to Budhism), which is a lovely thing.

so, unfortunately, they are quite casual when it comes to their kid being gay.

Many times a child just fits in to what is around him.

and when the mum lets him play with dolls and things, the kid grows up feeling secure with these items.

later at school and beyond, he realized that there are gay and ladyboys EVEREYWHERE in Thailand, (at collage, at University, in the workplace, at social places, possibly within the same family and his own group of friends), and so many Gays and Ladyboys everywhere on Television, Soap Dramas, Comedy Movies, Product Advertising, Game Shows, etc...

so its a perfect place for "Gayness" to be nurtured.

its the parents responsibility to do their best at keeping their kids from going 'astray'.

Many gay people say that they always felt like they were a woman in a mans body.

but they fail to regress their menmories to when they were being brought up as a child and the lack of masculinity in the things that they were allowed to do.

so much comes from childhood. We only need to look.

Anyway, at least Thailand is a very open country.

I have seen several Foreign ladyboys in Bangkok who must feel very comfortable here (without any persecution, which they would have got back home, in the West.

Budhism is really cool sometimes.

but parenting over here is really weak.

[Enoon]

i have this theory that there so many gay boys in thailand because there are so many single mums.

they dont have the dad around to keep the boy more masculine.

often the mums are quite laid-back in their upbringing, and the mums dont seem to care as much as the dads if the son becomes gay or not.

Thailand is a really open and acdepting country (thanks to Budhism), which is a lovely thing.

so, unfortunately, they are quite casual when it comes to their kid being gay.

Many times a child just fits in to what is around him.

and when the mum lets him play with dolls and things, the kid grows up feeling secure with these items.

later at school and beyond, he realized that there are gay and ladyboys EVEREYWHERE in Thailand, (at collage, at University, in the workplace, at social places, possibly within the same family and his own group of friends), and so many Gays and Ladyboys everywhere on Television, Soap Dramas, Comedy Movies, Product Advertising, Game Shows, etc...

so its a perfect place for "Gayness" to be nurtured.

its the parents responsibility to do their best at keeping their kids from going 'astray'.

Many gay people say that they always felt like they were a woman in a mans body.

but they fail to regress their menmories to when they were being brought up as a child and the lack of masculinity in the things that they were allowed to do.

so much comes from childhood. We only need to look.

Anyway, at least Thailand is a very open country.

I have seen several Foreign ladyboys in Bangkok who must feel very comfortable here (without any persecution, which they would have got back home, in the West.

Budhism is really cool sometimes.

but parenting over here is really weak.

"They" are everywhere in the world. But in most other parts of the world being one of "them" is often very dangerous and in some places punishable by death.

So many of "them" tend to stay in the "closet". You do know what that means don't you?

Happily things are changing.

Thailand is different. In Thailand it has been, for cultural reasons, historically and currently, OK to be "out". You do know what that means don't you?

That's why there seem to be more of "them" here than in your home country. It's just that in your home country, even today, they feel they have to hide "it" away.

Given the tone of your post, it's people like "you" they are hiding from.

[Suradit69]

Anyone or any institution or religion who forces people into becoming something they don't want to be is wrong - simple as that!

"don't want to be"

I agree the idea of attempting conversion is wrong and useless, but it has little to with "wanting" to be. The high rate of LGBT youth committing suicide alone ought to make it obvious that for them it certainly wasn't something they wanted to be.

And in the US ... the government has resorted to "urging" it all to stop.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/10/15/us-calls-for-end-to-lgbt-conversion-therapy.html

US government calls for an end to LGBT ‘conversion therapy’

The federal government issued a report (PDF) on Thursday urging families and therapists to abandon the use of “conversion therapy,” or attempting to change sexual orientation or gender identity, on youths.

The government’s Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) said it created the report to help parents and mental health practitioners decide how to best help adolescents who discover that they may be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Suradit69

[easybullet3]

i have this theory that there so many gay boys in thailand because there are so many single mums.

they dont have the dad around to keep the boy more masculine.

often the mums are quite laid-back in their upbringing, and the mums dont seem to care as much as the dads if the son becomes gay or not.

Thailand is a really open and acdepting country (thanks to Budhism), which is a lovely thing.

so, unfortunately, they are quite casual when it comes to their kid being gay.

Many times a child just fits in to what is around him.

and when the mum lets him play with dolls and things, the kid grows up feeling secure with these items.

later at school and beyond, he realized that there are gay and ladyboys EVEREYWHERE in Thailand, (at collage, at University, in the workplace, at social places, possibly within the same family and his own group of friends), and so many Gays and Ladyboys everywhere on Television, Soap Dramas, Comedy Movies, Product Advertising, Game Shows, etc...

so its a perfect place for "Gayness" to be nurtured.

its the parents responsibility to do their best at keeping their kids from going 'astray'.

Many gay people say that they always felt like they were a woman in a mans body.

but they fail to regress their menmories to when they were being brought up as a child and the lack of masculinity in the things that they were allowed to do.

so much comes from childhood. We only need to look.

Anyway, at least Thailand is a very open country.

I have seen several Foreign ladyboys in Bangkok who must feel very comfortable here (without any persecution, which they would have got back home, in the West.

Budhism is really cool sometimes.

but parenting over here is really weak.

"They" are everywhere in the world. But in most other parts of the world being one of "them" is often very dangerous and in some places punishable by death.

So many of "them" tend to stay in the "closet". You do know what that means don't you?

Happily things are changing.

Thailand is different. In Thailand it has been, for cultural reasons, historically and currently, OK to be "out". You do know what that means don't you?

That's why there seem to be more of "them" here than in your home country. It's just that in your home country, even today, they feel they have to hide "it" away.

Given the tone of your post, it's people like "you" they are hiding from.

wow, you got me all wrong, really.

i cant find one derogeratory remark I made against gay people in my post.

i am discussing the topic at hand.

i am putting my REASONS as to why I think there is more gay people in Thailand than other countries.

I am from London, tonnes of Gay and Mixed clubs (which me and my friends used to go to when we were younger because the crowd and music was so much better).

Theres tonnes of gays and closet gays all over the world, but regardless of being (in the closet), its still far higher in Thailand.. (due to the supporting environment).

and I was sayint that Budhism is lovely for this reason that it makes people open and accepting to anything.

My point was about HOW gay people become gay.

I did not bash anyone.

really, you have read my post incorrectly.

[steven23]

Chinese leaders have long complained about the intolerance of the Buddhists in Tibet, the authoritarian, medieval structure of their social and economic systems based on the privileges of birth and the rankest exploitation of peasants. This is a big problem for the Dali Lama. If you look at the documentary on Tibet by Werner Hetzog you can see intimations of the difficult situation he faces due to the zealotry and superstitions of his self-proclaimed followers. One reason he insists that Independence for Tibet is not on his immediate agenda. Makes sense but the CP of China doesn't believe him.

As far as global human rights issues are concerned, the most depraved and widespread would easily be the countless children being sold into the human trafficking market, even in many developed countries, but liberals seem to believe that minor "discrimination" against LGBT is a far more serious issue than children being sold as sex slaves. Worldwide acceptance of the LGBT lifestyle is far too important to waste time worrying about the lives of innocent children. At least liberals have their priorities in order.

After all, the Catholic Church is the world's foremost advocate in the fight against human trafficking, and too many anti-religious liberals would rather let countless children suffer for the rest of their lives than support a Christian cause to end real crimes against humanity.

Thai society in general is hard to figure out. A lot of smiling and politeness that hides a lot of bad things going on there. Just like everywhere else except the Thais seem more adept/skilled at being two faced. Live there a while and you'll understand.

Both your header and sub-header are misleading. Thailand is NOT the gay capital of Asia but the commercial sex gay capital of Asia. Similarly, there is no contradiction in Thailand welcoming LGBT tourists and NOT treating THEIR LGBT citizens equally. Welcoming all tourists is just smart business: an LGBT tourist faces no discrimination in restaurants, hotels and places of tourist interest. In other words the LGBT TOURIST will not face discrimination BECAUSE s/he is a member of the LGBT community.

Buddhism...another religious disappointment!

[humqdpf]

Natures way of solving over population

It could also function as a way of increasing population as it frees up males from competing over women and they could be deployed over other tasks, such as adopting unwanted or orphaned babies, helping siblings/relatives in the raising of kids etc.

Remember that you don't need 1,000 men to get 1,000 women pregnant!

[tominbkk]

Many gay people say that they always felt like they were a woman in a mans body.

but they fail to regress their menmories to when they were being brought up as a child and the lack of masculinity in the things that they were allowed to do.

so much comes from childhood. We only need to look.

No, transgender feel stuck in the wrong body. Gay men and women are more than happy in the body and with the genitalia they already have.

Two entirely different things (though if you watch Thai TV you wouldn't think so).

[tominbkk]

wow, you got me all wrong, really.

i cant find one derogeratory remark I made against gay people in my post.

i am discussing the topic at hand.

i am putting my REASONS as to why I think there is more gay people in Thailand than other countries.

I am from London, tonnes of Gay and Mixed clubs (which me and my friends used to go to when we were younger because the crowd and music was so much better).

Theres tonnes of gays and closet gays all over the world, but regardless of being (in the closet), its still far higher in Thailand.. (due to the supporting environment).

and I was sayint that Budhism is lovely for this reason that it makes people open and accepting to anything.

My point was about HOW gay people become gay.

I did not bash anyone.

really, you have read my post incorrectly.

I would imagine gay people make up around 8% of the population anywhere in the world. Whether or not they act on their feelings or fully accept their sexuality is dependent on their beliefs, how they were raised, the environment they live in, etc. Many gay people around the world live completely straight lives, are never happy with themselves, the person they marry, or how they live, but out of fear of what their society, their religion, their family would do to them they choose to play a straight role.

There are many meccas for gay people around the world, Bangkok I suppose being one of them, where people can live more openly. That's why it seems to be a higher ratio. But go to a middle class or village area out of the tourist areas and the ratio goes way down. That's my experience living in and around Thailand the last 20 years.

[soalbundy]

 

Natures way of solving over population

It could also function as a way of increasing population as it frees up males from competing over women and they could be deployed over other tasks, such as adopting unwanted or orphaned babies, helping siblings/relatives in the raising of kids etc.

Remember that you don't need 1,000 men to get 1,000 women pregnant!

Actually i really was wondering if the seeming increase in gays, transgender, etc was more about human density in the world than increased reporting and changing attitudes. There is a school of thought that says there is a world wide connectivity between human beings, and perhaps between animals as well which warn us at the sub conscious level of things going wrong where ever they happen, various experiments world wide have been carried out with some measure of success. I found it alarming and surprising that 50% of young people in Britain describe their sexuality as 'fluid' surely something new happening here

[UTH001]

i have this theory that there so many gay boys in thailand because there are so many single mums.

they dont have the dad around to keep the boy more masculine.

often the mums are quite laid-back in their upbringing, and the mums dont seem to care as much as the dads if the son becomes gay or not.

Thailand is a really open and acdepting country (thanks to Budhism), which is a lovely thing.

so, unfortunately, they are quite casual when it comes to their kid being gay.

Many times a child just fits in to what is around him.

and when the mum lets him play with dolls and things, the kid grows up feeling secure with these items.

later at school and beyond, he realized that there are gay and ladyboys EVEREYWHERE in Thailand, (at collage, at University, in the workplace, at social places, possibly within the same family and his own group of friends), and so many Gays and Ladyboys everywhere on Television, Soap Dramas, Comedy Movies, Product Advertising, Game Shows, etc...

so its a perfect place for "Gayness" to be nurtured.

its the parents responsibility to do their best at keeping their kids from going 'astray'.

Many gay people say that they always felt like they were a woman in a mans body.

but they fail to regress their menmories to when they were being brought up as a child and the lack of masculinity in the things that they were allowed to do.

so much comes from childhood. We only need to look.

Anyway, at least Thailand is a very open country.

I have seen several Foreign ladyboys in Bangkok who must feel very comfortable here (without any persecution, which they would have got back home, in the West.

Budhism is really cool sometimes.

but parenting over here is really weak.

"They" are everywhere in the world. But in most other parts of the world being one of "them" is often very dangerous and in some places punishable by death.

So many of "them" tend to stay in the "closet". You do know what that means don't you?

Happily things are changing.

Thailand is different. In Thailand it has been, for cultural reasons, historically and currently, OK to be "out". You do know what that means don't you?

That's why there seem to be more of "them" here than in your home country. It's just that in your home country, even today, they feel they have to hide "it" away.

Given the tone of your post, it's people like "you" they are hiding from.

wow, you got me all wrong, really.

i cant find one derogeratory remark I made against gay people in my post.

i am discussing the topic at hand.

i am putting my REASONS as to why I think there is more gay people in Thailand than other countries.

I am from London, tonnes of Gay and Mixed clubs (which me and my friends used to go to when we were younger because the crowd and music was so much better).

Theres tonnes of gays and closet gays all over the world, but regardless of being (in the closet), its still far higher in Thailand.. (due to the supporting environment).

and I was sayint that Budhism is lovely for this reason that it makes people open and accepting to anything.

My point was about HOW gay people become gay.

I did not bash anyone.

really, you have read my post incorrectly.

Maybe I am just confused about your post or just don't understand but are you seriously suggesting that boys "become" gay because of them playing with dolls??? Seriously? And that later in life, they all want to become ladyboys? Rarely have I read such complete and utter crap!

[Jingthing]

Not rare here though.

[easybullet3]

wow, you got me all wrong, really.

i cant find one derogeratory remark I made against gay people in my post.

i am discussing the topic at hand.

i am putting my REASONS as to why I think there is more gay people in Thailand than other countries.

I am from London, tonnes of Gay and Mixed clubs (which me and my friends used to go to when we were younger because the crowd and music was so much better).

Theres tonnes of gays and closet gays all over the world, but regardless of being (in the closet), its still far higher in Thailand.. (due to the supporting environment).

and I was sayint that Budhism is lovely for this reason that it makes people open and accepting to anything.

My point was about HOW gay people become gay.

I did not bash anyone.

really, you have read my post incorrectly.

I would imagine gay people make up around 8% of the population anywhere in the world. Whether or not they act on their feelings or fully accept their sexuality is dependent on their beliefs, how they were raised, the environment they live in, etc. Many gay people around the world live completely straight lives, are never happy with themselves, the person they marry, or how they live, but out of fear of what their society, their religion, their family would do to them they choose to play a straight role.

There are many meccas for gay people around the world, Bangkok I suppose being one of them, where people can live more openly. That's why it seems to be a higher ratio. But go to a middle class or village area out of the tourist areas and the ratio goes way down. That's my experience living in and around Thailand the last 20 years.

actually.. I can personally attest to the fact that there are TONNES of gay arabic people.

when I walk around Bangkok, i always get latent gay vibes from many of the arabic community.

(i admit I look camp myself, but i am not gay... but I do get plenty of people assuming I am gay).

the amount of gayness I have had from arabic people is crazy.

I think these ones definitely come under the category that you just described.. (married, but attracted to guys).

[ozyjon]

OH !!!

[tominbkk]

wow, you got me all wrong, really.

i cant find one derogeratory remark I made against gay people in my post.

i am discussing the topic at hand.

i am putting my REASONS as to why I think there is more gay people in Thailand than other countries.

I am from London, tonnes of Gay and Mixed clubs (which me and my friends used to go to when we were younger because the crowd and music was so much better).

Theres tonnes of gays and closet gays all over the world, but regardless of being (in the closet), its still far higher in Thailand.. (due to the supporting environment).

and I was sayint that Budhism is lovely for this reason that it makes people open and accepting to anything.

My point was about HOW gay people become gay.

I did not bash anyone.

really, you have read my post incorrectly.

I would imagine gay people make up around 8% of the population anywhere in the world. Whether or not they act on their feelings or fully accept their sexuality is dependent on their beliefs, how they were raised, the environment they live in, etc. Many gay people around the world live completely straight lives, are never happy with themselves, the person they marry, or how they live, but out of fear of what their society, their religion, their family would do to them they choose to play a straight role.

There are many meccas for gay people around the world, Bangkok I suppose being one of them, where people can live more openly. That's why it seems to be a higher ratio. But go to a middle class or village area out of the tourist areas and the ratio goes way down. That's my experience living in and around Thailand the last 20 years.

actually.. I can personally attest to the fact that there are TONNES of gay arabic people.

when I walk around Bangkok, i always get latent gay vibes from many of the arabic community.

(i admit I look camp myself, but i am not gay... but I do get plenty of people assuming I am gay).

the amount of gayness I have had from arabic people is crazy.

I think these ones definitely come under the category that you just described.. (married, but attracted to guys).

For sure, many Arabs horny for any warm hole.

[zzo]

Thailand is by far the most gender confused country we have ever been in. I may never understand it!