Confused-marriage Visa Rules!

[Casanundra]

I sympathise with you predicament.

Are you saying that last year you had a so called 'married' visa extension and this year you went to renew it for another 1 year married visa extension and you were refused as you supplied just proof of having 400k baht?

Or last year did you have a different sort of visa extension not based on the Marriage criteria?

It is only supposed to be for NEW applications after 1st October that this rule ie: have to have monthly income fir married extension - was supposed to come into force.

I haven't read through this thread for about 3 days - surely the rules haven't changed again?

Apologies in advance if I have misunderstood what you have said. May I ask which Immigration Office this was please as I am currently applying at Jomtien.

Bangkok but the same thing just happened to my friend in Jomtien and also to another mate up in Chiang Mai. My mate in Chiang Mai had his 6 year old daughter with him and asked the lady in immigration if she would like to now explain to her why Daddy has just been forced to leave the country or get his rear end down to his embassy to do some creative fudging.

[thaigene2]

Casanundra

I thought about a new bank acct too. Then just set up a standing order to move money from one Thai bank account to the other. There aren't any criteria for WHERE the money comes from are there? They just want to see monthly income - ok I'm paying myself 41,000 baht from my other account so what? Getting a letter from the Embassy isn't compulsory is it?

Seems like this is the easiest way to get round all this foolishness.

[rudolf von hamburg]

If this new extension rule is true, then I think it is quite stupit of the ones made the rules. Because there are people like me that do not work or receive any pension but have lots of assests back home and also have big accounts in Thailand already for yeras. So the real spenders or contributors here that have absolutely no financiial problems are excluded from the visa extension???

[Maestro]

I thought about a new bank acct too. Then just set up a standing order to move money from one Thai bank account to the other. There aren't any criteria for WHERE the money comes from are there? They just want to see monthly income - ok I'm paying myself 41,000 baht from my other account so what? Getting a letter from the Embassy isn't compulsory is it?

At the moment, it is either proof of local, tax-paid income or the embassy letter. See paragraph 7.17 of the National Police Office Order No. 606/2006:

...evidences of personal income of either party or both that shows the total income of both parties not less than 40,000 Baht per month, such as the evidence of the personal income tax filing and the receipt, evidence of being a pensioner, credentials of receiving the interest of the saving money, or the evidences of having other income from other related organizations.

Notice that proof of income, not of deposits to the local account, is asked for.

--------------

Maestro

[dsfbrit]

I sympathise with you predicament.

Are you saying that last year you had a so called 'married' visa extension and this year you went to renew it for another 1 year married visa extension and you were refused as you supplied just proof of having 400k baht?

Or last year did you have a different sort of visa extension not based on the Marriage criteria?

It is only supposed to be for NEW applications after 1st October that this rule ie: have to have monthly income fir married extension - was supposed to come into force.

I haven't read through this thread for about 3 days - surely the rules haven't changed again?

Apologies in advance if I have misunderstood what you have said. May I ask which Immigration Office this was please as I am currently applying at Jomtien.

Bangkok but the same thing just happened to my friend in Jomtien and also to another mate up in Chiang Mai. My mate in Chiang Mai had his 6 year old daughter with him and asked the lady in immigration if she would like to now explain to her why Daddy has just been forced to leave the country or get his rear end down to his embassy to do some creative fudging.

Good heavens - very traumatic. May I ask what they stamped on the passport - was it just a 7 day extension or 30 days to sort things out? I am sorry I cannot offer some good advice - I am pretty sure that Sunbelt or someone will have have a 'creative fudge' that will work.

I hope so for your sake and mine - as it is quite possible that my next trip to Jomtien in 2 weeks time - may end with a simlar result!!!

good luck.

[Sunbelt Asia]

I will double check on Monday but this is more a case by case situation, where you plead your case rather than getting a black and white rule that is only 400K or 40,000 Baht income. Allowing a combination makes sense. Example: If the foreigner is getting 30K salary per month, why does he need 400K in the bank as well, if he doesn't have the funds at this time?

Re-confirmed, combinations of income and money in the bank are still allowed for applicants prior to Oct 1st.

I'm 51, married to a Thai girl and have had 2/3 successful renewals of a "marriage" visa to date. My income is only a small company pension in the UK (already confirmed by Embassy) which equates to about 36,000 Baht per month. Last year this was acceptable although I was asked to provide a Bank book and confirmation letter in addition and I actually deposited 100,000 Baht on the day, just so there was a balance, as I usually draw my funds direct from the UK via ATM.

As my pension is 4000 Baht less than the new figure, will it still be acceptable as it equates to over 400,000p.a. but not the new 480,000? Will I need to just provide the difference in a lump sum and if so will this amount have to be in the account 3 months in advance.

A combination is still allowed in your case ( as you are holding the extension of stay permit, prior to Oct 1st)

Then I just read the new law that require proof of income over 40000 bahts a month. Now even I have still 5 million in accounts in Thailand for some years, this does not count for extension?? I am early retiree in 40's, my father passed away and left me and my mom with big assets, so I retired early. Not to brag or anything but I have enough assets back home to lead many many lives of luxury in Thailand with my wife and my future kid, she is preganant now. But I don't have proof of income of of 40000 bahts a month, but can show I wired in Thailand nearly 10 million in past 4 years, and also can show I have joined family assets in bonds, mutual funds, and also real estates back home that worth thousands times as required. Any advice from Thai experts?

The easiest way is get a notarized letter of income from your Embassy. If you have bonds, dividends, rental income this should qualify.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[ozzydom]

Am thoroughly confused re. the new regulations, and would appreciate input to my situation,

I have had non-imm O retirement visas for the past 5 years,am married to a Thai national, in June this year I applied for a marriage Visa at Nong Kia ,but the officer flatly refused our request as I had over 800k in my bank A/c,saying I could have one next year if the A/c was down to 400k and issued me the usual non -imm O visa.

My problem after reading thread will be that my pension is only about 30k per month and we have been rebuilding so the A/c will be just above the 400k by next renewal but my monthly income will be below the requirement, Any advice appreciated..

[lopburi3]

Put enough in the bank to make your combined salary/savings meet the 800k mark and continue your retirement extensions of stay. Believe the total will have to be about 420-440 on deposit depending on how they do the math.

[99BigLad99]

The easiest way is get a notarized letter of income from your Embassy. If you have bonds, dividends, rental income this should qualify.

oes the letter have to come from the Ebassy or could I get one from a Notary Public in UK ?

[lopburi3]

The income is a letter from your Embassy but what they want is up to them. No, I do not believe immigration would accept something other than a paper from your Embassy for income/pension from outside of Thailand.

[rudolf von hamburg]

I contact my embassy about the letter of income. This new rule will be a absurd and terrible hassel for people like us who have lots of assets in bonds, mutual funds, stocks, real estates, ect not in income or pesion forms. The new rule does not make sense, if someone like me have accounts of millions in Thailand for many years, and this still cannot count towards extension, this is the best proof of financial stability of having many millions of bahts for years and years in thai accounts, absolutely don't make sense at all.

My embassy say the assets like bonds, stocks and mutual funds, do not count as income, unless you sell them and lead to pofits, and then it will count as income, if thats the case, I am forced to sell them every year, year after year if i do extension here, and do all the tax papers on dividents and interests and save all of them and show them to my embassy in BKK each year to produce the proof of income letter so I can do my extension to stay some times with my wife!!!

This is just getting rediculous. I think I will get a multiple visa until my baby is borne, and if this long stay thing getting to much hassel, I have no hesitation for relocation with my family to other destinations.

[Maestro]

This is just getting rediculous. I think I will get a multiple visa until my baby is borne, and if this long stay thing getting to much hassel, I have no hesitation for relocation with my family to other destinations.

There are rumours of new changes coming, or of modifications to the recent changes. So hang in there, wait a few months and see if things are changing in your favour.

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Maestro

[Sunbelt Asia]

This is just getting rediculous. I think I will get a multiple visa until my baby is borne, and if this long stay thing getting to much hassel, I have no hesitation for relocation with my family to other destinations.

There are rumours of new changes coming, or of modifications to the recent changes. So hang in there, wait a few months and see if things are changing in your favour.

--------------

Maestro

Sorry to say, it seems the changes are going to be just on change of visa. For instance on an extension of stay based on retirement, you need to show 90 days of the money in the bank.

The same requirement does not exist on a change from a tourist visa or 30 day stamp, as long as the money is in the bank, you are allowed to do the change. You then are granted a 90 day “under consideration stamp” This was perfect as you then could apply for the extension 90 days later as you met the qualification of the money in the bank for 90 days. You could stay in Thailand during this process.

On Nov. 15th this will change to correspond to the extension of stay with the money required to be in the bank, 90 days for both the change of visa and extension. You cannot do the change without 90 days of money being in the bank.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[JimGant]

My embassy say the assets like bonds, stocks and mutual funds, do not count as income, unless you sell them and lead to pofits, and then it will count as income,

Your embassy is making it harder than it has to be. Thai Immigration is just looking for 'positve cash flow,' and if selling bonds at a loss results in the requred cash flow, viola! If you have a zillion stashed away, sell a piece every year to meet Thailand's cash flow requirement, even at a loss, why should Thailand -- or your embassy -- care about the capital gain or loss aspect of this deal.

Yeah, I'm sure some twit at your embassy (polyester tie, right?) enjoys playing accounting semantics at your expense. And, sure, maybe 'income' was the translation your Foreign Service got from the Thai directive. But, hey, was this 'gross' income (before taxes) or 'net' income. I'm sure Mr. Polyester Tie would stumble all over this question.

I kinda like the Yank approach to income, er, cash flow verification: "We swear that he swore that his income/cash flow/profits/dinero/whatever is over x baht per month." That's what I call a helpful fellow-countryman being paid with my tax dollar.

As far as your unhelfpful fellow-countryman, I'd piss in his boot given the chance. Foreign Service types, unfortunately, seem to be overly-haughty, regardless of nationality.

(Not that this diatribe helps you -- but I sure feel better!!!)

[JimGant]

The same requirement does not exist on a change from a tourist visa or 30 day stamp, as long as the money is in the bank, you are allowed to do the change. You then are granted a 90 day “under consideration stamp”

Hmmm. Several folks here -- wpcoe immediately comes to mind -- went from 30-day stamp, to Non Imm O, to one year extension same day. There was no "90 day under consideration" involved.

Which doesn't mean what you're saying isn't the rule -- only that several exceptions, then, have been noted.

(Oh, that's right, we're talking Thai Immigration here. Sorry.)

[rudolf von hamburg]

Some embassys look at thier citizens in Thailand like unwanted outcasts of the society. They will not likely to provide a letter of income if you do not have proof of monthly income or monthly welfare ect. The man i spoke to sound very firm that only you have proof of income paper of any kind, so they will not do the verification letter. I am not willing to sell any my mutual funds, because I have enough funds in Thailand for many yeras already and able to stay for many many yeras here if I wish to.

This new rule actually affect many people. My friend a Swiss national also cannot do extension under this new rule. He had sold almost everything he has in past 2 years and sent to Thailand in thai accounts about 8.5 millions bahts or so. He is still in Zurich, and will come to Thailand to join his wife on non-immi maybe in Nov, so under the new rule, he will not able to do extension in Thailand as well, he have no more monthly income, and he only age 33, another 20 yeras or so for social pension, although he has over 8.5 million worth in thai banks. The only option even for him who sold everything and deposited in Thailand in last 2 yeras is to get the 1 year multiple.

This new rule has lots of illogical aburdity in it. Maybe some of you who know the Thai immigration officials can reflect the problems to them.

[RHCP]

Some further clarification please from the experts concerning the 400,000 baht bank balance requirement.

Does Immigration require evidence of this amount of money being transferred into the country each year or can one utilize legally earned income in Thailand to top up the account to maintain the required balance?

One further question. Would it be advantageous to open a long-term fixed rate deposit account (earning a much better rate of interest of course) of over 400,000 baht and produce this each year when renewing marriage visa extension? Would this be acceptable to Immigration?

[Sunbelt Asia]

Does Immigration require evidence of this amount of money being transferred into the country each year or can one utilize legally earned income in Thailand to top up the account to maintain the required balance?

Is not required to be from a foreign source.

One further question. Would it be advantageous to open a long-term fixed rate deposit account (earning a much better rate of interest of course) of over 400,000 baht and produce this each year when renewing marriage visa extension? Would this be acceptable to Immigration?

This would be acceptable.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Crossy]

Whilst we're talking about the income requirements

I am an independent engineering consultant (yes a real one). My income comes from various sources, sometimes inside Thailand, often outside.

My outside sources pay into a Luxembourg account which then gets transferred into either my Thai account (when I'm in the country) or my wifes account (when I'm not).

So, can I use bank statements from Luxembourg to demonstrate sufficient income, two months on a decent contract nets enough to easily average 40k Baht per month?

OR

Is a regular transfer of 60k per month to either of our Thai accounts acceptable?

OR

Something else?

[Sunbelt Asia]

Whilst we're talking about the income requirements

I am an independent engineering consultant (yes a real one). My income comes from various sources, sometimes inside Thailand, often outside.

My outside sources pay into a Luxembourg account which then gets transferred into either my Thai account (when I'm in the country) or my wifes account (when I'm not).

So, can I use bank statements from Luxembourg to demonstrate sufficient income, two months on a decent contract nets enough to easily average 40k Baht per month?

OR

Is a regular transfer of 60k per month to either of our Thai accounts acceptable?

OR

Something else?

The key is allowing to make a statement from the embassy that you get a income over 40K per month. Each Embassy has guidelines what is acceptable for proof.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Crossy]

The key is allowing to make a statement from the embassy that you get a income over 40K per month. Each Embassy has guidelines what is acceptable for proof.

Thanks

We're talking British Embassy here, any hint as to what they require? or for that matter, what they call this 'statement of income'?

Perhaps I'm being stupid, but their website appears less than helpful these days

[RHCP]

Does Immigration require evidence of this amount of money being transferred into the country each year or can one utilize legally earned income in Thailand to top up the account to maintain the required balance?

Is not required to be from a foreign source.

One further question. Would it be advantageous to open a long-term fixed rate deposit account (earning a much better rate of interest of course) of over 400,000 baht and produce this each year when renewing marriage visa extension? Would this be acceptable to Immigration?

This would be acceptable.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Thank you Sunbelt.

[classic-chassis]

I contacted the British embassy regarding notarising English bank statements to show I have an income of over 700 pounds per month form property rentals, which of course is over the amount necessary.

I told them in order for me to get a marriage visa extended they needed to do this for me. They told me they do not supply such a service and obtaining Thai visas was nothing to do with them.

So what now? Will Thai immi accept Barklays bank statements?

Usually I draw money from my English ATM then put the money in a thai bank account, so I have a Thai bank book showing about 40,000BHT being put in and used every month. Will this do?

Of course if I were to show the immi guys my bank book they will immediately think I’m working. So Thai bank book and Barklays statements to back them up??????????

When I go to extend with all different types of papers from banks all over the world should l take my wife and new born baby with me, do you think it would help grease the wheels, so to speak? Or would they really tell my family and I “ we are sorry but you will have to separate”!

Please advise

[Sunbelt Asia]

I contacted the British embassy regarding notarising English bank statements to show I have an income of over 700 pounds per month form property rentals, which of course is over the amount necessary.

I told them in order for me to get a marriage visa extended they needed to do this for me. They told me they do not supply such a service and obtaining Thai visas was nothing to do with them.

So what now? Will Thai immi accept Barklays bank statements?

Usually I draw money from my English ATM then put the money in a thai bank account, so I have a Thai bank book showing about 40,000BHT being put in and used every month. Will this do?

Of course if I were to show the immi guys my bank book they will immediately think I’m working. So Thai bank book and Barklays statements to back them up??????????

When I go to extend with all different types of papers from banks all over the world should l take my wife and new born baby with me, do you think it would help grease the wheels, so to speak? Or would they really tell my family and I “ we are sorry but you will have to separate”!

Please advise

The UK Embassy does do the notarization of a statement of income per month. They in fact address the letter to the Commissioner of the Immigration Bureau. Our lawyers have gone with clients to get this letter before. I try the Embassy again; if you like take one of our legal staff with you. Our professional fee is 1,600 Baht.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[classic-chassis]

Hay thanks for that, I may take you up on that offer in the future.

What would you need to show the uk embassy?

Would bank statements showing income only be enough?

How strict are they regarding papers you show them?

Can your wife’s wages be shown also?

Thanks in advance sunbelt

[rudolf von hamburg]

I asked my wife and her friend to go immigration center to ask about the new situation about extension yesterday. I told her to ask if people like us who have millions here in the thai accounts for years and yeras and still cannot apply for the year extension. Its ridiculous. The answer from the immigracion official is vague. It seems like everything is case by case. So when I go apply my extension in a while I just show them my accounts in Thailand for between 5-10 miilions over 4 years. Still have about 5-6 million in many accounts here in thailand. If this is still not enough for them to proove I can feed my wife and new kid for a yaer (the baby due next February), which is the main reason for me to stay here, if they insisit i need the income letter from embassy, I will simply tell them sorry I don't the extension anymore because I am financially able to relocate to much better places. In the case, I have always thought to spend some times in Provence, or Andalucia, to raise my little kid. Then adios tailand.

Edited October 12, 2006 by rudolf von hamburg

[Sunbelt Asia]

Hay thanks for that, I may take you up on that offer in the future.

What would you need to show the uk embassy?

Would bank statements showing income only be enough?

How strict are they regarding papers you show them?

Can your wife’s wages be shown also?

Thanks in advance sunbelt

Bring everything you can involved with your finances to the UK Embassy... checking acct, savings accts, pension, income tax returns, wife's salary, rental contracts from tenants, dividends.

Everything helps.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[buriramboy]

been reading this thread for a while, and i noticed a few people mentioned the UN in relation to international family law and while they were totally correct in there comments they got slated in this thread. for those of you unfamiliar with family law may i suggest you go check out the UN's website.

this is unconditional on income, visa status etc. if you are married with child, NO GOVERNMENT HAS THE RIGHT TO SPLIT UP THE FAMILY, without a family member living in the country being a threat to that country's national security.

[Toni]

I will double check on Monday but this is more a case by case situation, where you plead your case rather than getting a black and white rule that is only 400K or 40,000 Baht income. o I retired early. Not to brag or anything but I have enough assets back home to lead many many lives of luxury in Thailand with my wife and my future kid, she is preganant now. But I don't have proof of income of of 40000 bahts a month, but can show I wired in Thailand nearly 10 million in past 4 years, and also can show I have joined family assets in bonds, mutual funds, and also real estates back home that worth thousands times as required. Any advice from Thai experts?

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

"Re-confirmed, combinations of income and money in the bank are still allowed for applicants prior to Oct 1st."

To-day my first step to a “married visa” was granted with a 3-months non visa after showing the required paperwork based on bankbook, letter from the bank and minimum 400.000 Baht. I started the procedure September 28 as I can proof with my passport. I stayed skeptical about obtaining the final year’s visa. And to-day I stumbled indeed with the rest of the procedure in room 101. NO, here are the new rules after October 1st!

After my question why because I started procedure September 28 her answer was short: “that’s another department. Here we stick to the new rules.”

Is this the famous “officers’ interpretation allowed” or has the different “departments” in the same body different rules?

Is there a feasible possibility to address a complaint as they let you know after you have done the final apply?

[baboon]

been reading this thread for a while, and i noticed a few people mentioned the UN in relation to international family law and while they were totally correct in there comments they got slated in this thread. for those of you unfamiliar with family law may i suggest you go check out the UN's website.

this is unconditional on income, visa status etc. if you are married with child, NO GOVERNMENT HAS THE RIGHT TO SPLIT UP THE FAMILY, without a family member living in the country being a threat to that country's national security.

When has any country abided by UN rules once they dont suit? The UN seems to be all talk and nothing to back it up. [Not having a go at you, mate!]