Had motorbike crash. Whats my culpability?

[Jake McClinton]

Hi guys,

as you may have wondered what did this idiot do? Allow me to explain the situaiton because i really need some advice.

So, i was driving down a one way street on my rented scooter late for work, yes i was in a hurry but i was not reckless. I was on the hard left driving with others down an old road through 5pm rush hour traffic.

A BMW turns left cutting me off completely to turn into a car park, maybe they signalled im not sure because they were in with the que of cars that were slowly making their way forward but they really came out of nowhere. I emmergency broke but not in enough time and dinted their car door as it swung out infront of me and across my path. I was not hurt nor was my bike. I gave an old medical card and my phone number to the two young Thais that apeared out of the car immediately blaming me saying they indicated therefore its my fault. I asked if we could sort this out tomorrow to which the driver said yes, took a picture of my license plate and i drove off to work.

Later that evening i recieve a phone call demanding nearly 12,000 baht to repair the dint in the car door (this dint was only about 1 across), they said they don't have insurance and want cash. They asked me to come to a police station tomorrow to resovle this with neutrality. I have work and can't go I said so they said they will take the picture they have of my license plate and a picture that was taken of my old mecial card down to the station without me their to provide my side of the story. I have said i want to resolve the situation but ultimately I refused their demand and asked for all their details, expired insurance detials, copies of license and registration.

My question is how serious is this? I certainly don't want to involve the police, i rent the bike.

If, i am judged to be in the wrong 12,000 is alot for a small dint. am i right?

Thanks in advanc for any replies.

[MadMuhummad]

Why would the fact that you rent the bike be a problem if police are involved? No license?

Edited October 28, 2015 by MadMuhummad

[Jake McClinton]

Bingo, but i'm also thinking the police might not help resolve the situation fairly. I know i shouldnt have been in the far left hand side of the road, but i was forced into this path through sheer traffic. I don't feel this is my fault, he should have checked his mirror.

[Expattaff1308]

Why didnt you contact your insurance company? Assuming the bike is covered of course!!

Edited October 28, 2015 by Expattaff1308

[plaid]

if single lane, Beemer indicated to turn left and in correct lane and you was on the left hand side of him...your fault

12k to fix...if fixed by BM could cost 12k

[konying]

You will not like this but

1. You were driving the wrong way, so your fault 100%

2. Sure they have insurance but would not make a claim so you liable .

3. In my opinion 12000 is too much but this is what they demand and if you do not go to police station with them , this is what you will pay.

My best advise is to go down to BMW dealer and get a quote with them.

Sure can be fixed cheaper at a local shop and I doubt they would be fixing it, but this would be the wisest choice to get real price from dealer .

Door paint is 2000 baht for sure.

Fix the dent, no more than 1000.

They might demand car rental but I believe dealer provides courtesy car

[MadMuhummad]

Ah ok. You may be surprised with the result from police negotiating if you stick to your guns.

The lack of a license may be an issue though.

Maybe counter with a lower offer and see what the other driver says?

Ultimately if you can get it under 10K it may be a reasonably cheap lesson.

[kannot]

Best part for me " we have no insurance" any other civilised country this = their fault + big fine + harder to get insure and in the Uk points on licence at least 6 probably more and no insurance also = not taxed

Tell em youve got no money or just leave it.

Can afford the car but not the insurance huh!

Edited October 28, 2015 by kannot

[kannot]

Bingo, but i'm also thinking the police might not help resolve the situation fairly. I know i shouldnt have been in the far left hand side of the road, but i was forced into this path through sheer traffic. I don't feel this is my fault, he should have checked his mirror.

Does BINGO mean you have no driving licence?

[papa al]

Not your fault.

You were driving on left as required.

They cut you off.

Stonewall as long as possible.

Don't answer phone.

Don't go to police.

If they come for you (unlikely)

Plead poverty.

Settle for 3000 if necessary.

Edited October 28, 2015 by papa al

[eisfeld]

1. You were driving without license

2. You were driving on the shoulder, that's not where you are supposed to drive

3. You got no insurance coverage (and be it just because 1.)

4. Sounds like you were overtaking on the left

Do you have a work permit at least?

Sorry but you are in a tough spot.

Best option like mentioned is to try get an official quote from BMW for the repair and hope it's lower.

[papa al]

1. BFD. 200 baht fine.

2. Driving on "hard" and legal to drive off pavement too.

3. Nether did they.

4. Not illegal.

Be strong.

[Sophon]

If they want to meet you at the police station it's very unlikely that they don't have at least the compulsory insurance. What they meant when saying that they don't have insurance is probably that they don't have first class insurance, meaning that they cannot claim the damage on their own insurance. As long as they have the compulsory insurance they were legal, while you on the other hand seem to have no drivers license.

Sophon

[Jake McClinton]

All very good points.

My main concern really is the fact that they are going to go to the police regardless if I agree to pay 12k or not. Personally, I just want to know if I have done anything illegal enough to warrant them searching for me.

At this point it is unsure whose fault it was. My word against theirs but I'm pretty sure it wasn't my action that caused their dinted car door.

Tempted to just ignore it and hope it all goes away.. What are the chances?

[Aussieroaming]

You were travelling in the same direction as the BMW and they were in the correct lane for turning left? If they can prove that they were indicating then you are in the poo.

However if they didn't report or register the accident when it occurred and they have no independent witnesses and evidence to corroborate their story, then they are in the poo.

However this is Thailand and they are more likely to know than you how best to flick the poo at the other person.

[Jake McClinton]

Like i said to them i didn't see a turn signal but i just can't remember, i presume if i saw one i wouldn't have kept on riding forward at the same pace. This logic by no means qualifies as actual logic but you get my point.

i really do not feel it was my fault, the traffic was horrendous, you know the kind where there are bikes and cars everywhere? it was mayhem. I was on the left, certainly i was overtaking but bikes overtake a car a second in those long narrow gaps between lanes.

Anyone got any ideas on what the police are going to do after they report my license plate and what would appear to be an picture of an old medical card? especially considering i'm working and wont be able to get down to tell my side side of the story and refute any allegations that may have been logged against me.

[macknife]

1. You are supposed to be driving on the left side of the road.

2. They are at fault as they basically cut in front of you, indicator or not. (I assume you were both going in the same direction, you haven't made this clear)

3. You have no license. Not a big deal in this country and has no relevance in this case, seeing as you have no insurance anyway.

4. This is not a western country and doesn't follow the same rules. Don't let others here worry you into admitting fault.

Just tell them it's their fault and you are not paying anything. hang up... finished! (as mentioned above ask them for their details to scare them a little)

They will not do anything nor will the police and even if they do,(unlikely) just worry about it then. Nobody was injured etc Do they even have your full name?

Papa's first post above is exactly what I would do. His post has a star next to it for a reason. Just stonewall them.

[Jake McClinton]

1. You are supposed to be driving on the left side of the road.

2. They are at fault as they basically cut in front of you, indicator or not. (I assume you were both going in the same direction, you haven't made this clear)

3. You have no license. Not a big deal in this country and has no relevance in this case, seeing as you have no insurance anyway.

4. This is not a western country and doesn't follow the same rules. Don't let others here worry you into admitting fault.

Just tell them it's their fault and you are not paying anything. hang up... finished! (as mentioned above ask them for their details to scare them a little)

They will not do anything nor will the police and even if they do,(unlikely) just worry about it then. Nobody was injured etc Do they even have your full name?

Papa's first post above is exactly what I would do. His post has a star next to it for a reason. Just stonewall them.

Ahhhhhh now finally thats the cathartic message i've been looking for! Thanks for the hint about the star.

They have my full name and a passport number/I.D number would have been on the medical card, also the license plate of my rental scooter.

Yes, we were both going in the same direction. I was on the left in the left hand side lane but he did definitely cut right infront of me. Already asked for their information but not had a reply since.

'Worry about it then' is not what i want to do if then will be far worse than just paying 12k and feeling really jipped off. But i appreciate the sentiment none the less!

Edited October 28, 2015 by Jake McClinton

[macknife]

1. You are supposed to be driving on the left side of the road.

2. They are at fault as they basically cut in front of you, indicator or not. (I assume you were both going in the same direction, you haven't made this clear)

3. You have no license. Not a big deal in this country and has no relevance in this case, seeing as you have no insurance anyway.

4. This is not a western country and doesn't follow the same rules. Don't let others here worry you into admitting fault.

Just tell them it's their fault and you are not paying anything. hang up... finished! (as mentioned above ask them for their details to scare them a little)

They will not do anything nor will the police and even if they do,(unlikely) just worry about it then. Nobody was injured etc Do they even have your full name?

Papa's first post above is exactly what I would do. His post has a star next to it for a reason. Just stonewall them.

Ahhhhhh now finally thats the cathartic message i've been looking for! Thanks for the hint about the star.

They have my full name and a passport number/I.D number would have been on the medical card, also the license plate of my rental scooter.

Yes, we were both going in the same direction. I was on the left in the left hand side lane but he did definitely cut right infront of me. Already asked for their information but not had a reply since.

'Worry about it then' is not what i want to do if then will be far worse than just paying 12k and feeling really jipped off. But i appreciate the sentiment none the less!

Them not replying to you after you asked for their details is a good sign.

It will not be far worse. The worst is you will have to pay 12,000baht, which I doubt will happen. The worst case the police get involved, just tell them they refused to give their details and wouldn't pay YOU.

Scare them! Tell them you may have to go to hospital with a sore neck and you expect them to pay your bills!

Be strong, insist they are at fault, because they are. They cut you up! It doesn't matter if they indicated, they can't just plow into people. You are a bike, you are supposed to be on the most left side of the road.

The bar stool know it alls will say that the farang is always in the wrong and that is simply not true. I know many people personally that have been paid out by Thais.

Good luck, and let us know.

[ClutchClark]

I am not offering an opinion...I am only wondering if the motorbike rentsl company has your passport as a deposit?

It seems like being able to track you down would be more difficult if you turned in the rented motorbike and rented from a new company...but I do not have experience in this matter so follow those thst do.

Good luck.

[eisfeld]

1. BFD. 200 baht fine.

2. Driving on "hard" and legal to drive off pavement too.

3. Nether did they.

4. Not illegal.

Be strong.

True I was maybe a bit too negative. And I wasn't implying these things are illegal but they are points to work against you.

But I have to get rid of my western thinking, I am sure the police wont even care about most things.

Probably better to go on the offensive, because what can you lose? Worst case it doesn't work.

So yea, maybe best to ask for payments from them, I am sure your little scooter got a scratch somewhere from this

Anyways, good luck!

[MaeJoMTB]

straight ahead has right of way.

They were turning, so their fault.

[bramds]

They are in the wrong.

Also, never go to the police station they propose, they probably know the cops there and you'll get screwed over, you should go to the nearest police station where the incident happened.

But if you were both going in the same direction, you were in the right, they should wait for a clear path to make a turn.

Also, them driving without insurance is also not legal.

[puukao]

You farang and Western thinking!!! All wrong!!!!

You give him ALL your money, and promise to give him ALL your money for the next 5-years. I put your case to my judge and jury, and you lost big time.

Let us know if ANY of these opinions prove to be absolutely correct.......But I enjoy the comedy of the replies....

Now remember, Thai law says an accident during half-moon, bright sun, early and mid-light means double fine!!!! most have no idea about this......

[autanic]

Hi Jake

OK voice of reason here.

If I can assume a few things, the bike is a rental and therefore insured, but you would rather not claim on the insurance as that would mean incurring excess charges ( which we can all agree are extornitionate).

Why did you hit them ?

Well it can only be assumed because there indicators were not functioning at the time of the accident.

This is their problem and not yours.

Personally, I would offer them THB5000 as they are uninsured. This is enough to cover any damage. If they want to make an issue of it, then lets involve the Insurance companies, oh yes there uninsured aren't they, tough shit.

5000 THB is only £100 enough to loose if you think you are in the wrong, but not enough to matter to you.

Do not go to the Police Station, the 5000 THB is a private arrangement, you have not been arrested for any crime, so why should you potentially incriminate yourself. Offer 5000 THB bank transfer as you will be away (blah blah blah) and cannot give cash in person.

[AllanB]

Even in the west the presence or absence of indication is irrelevant, so see no reason why it would count here, besides you already said you were not sure whether he did or didn't, so that is dealt with.

I assume that you were going faster than the BMW, or overtaking on the inside, again even in the west you would be at fault.

The police could be helpful, or, if they don't like farangs, the complete opposite, I would pay the £200 and let that be an end to it.

But be sure to get a receipt that this is the end to it, "a final settlement", written in Thai, signed and verified. This is most important as they may come back and ask for more.

IMO you could be in a different country and it would still be your fault, this is your fault.

Earlier this year, I was pulling in to the kerb, after indicating and unseen, a girl came racing through on the inside and clipped me, so her fault.

However, I got out checked to see she was okay, my wife suggested we take her for a coffee to settle her nerves, had a long chat along the lines that she should be careful and then gave her 500baht.

She went away happy, no comeback and it cost me £10....No details exchanged.

Edited October 29, 2015 by AllanB

[Yme]

Unlicensed driving then you are in the wrong for everything. Fruit of the poison tree.

You dinged their Beemer and it's fair and reasonable that they would want it repaired at an authorised BMW shop. If it was my Beemer that's what I would want.

Totally irrelevant what the rest of the traffic was doing, how busy you are, how much of a rush you were in.

The cops don't have to do much. They just need to bang the claim on the computer and you'll get pinged leaving the country, re-entering, or at immigration like those two Aussies were over the unpaid restaurant bill in Phuket last month.

Man up and pay for your damage and stop whinning. Or stop driving in Thailand.

Just be thankful they didn't give you a roughing up.

[Overandout]

Assuming that you work in the same place every day, I also assume you drive down that same road every day...

I don't think that the cost of the dent in the door or the police involvement is you greatest danger. I know this may come across quite badly and politically incorrectly, but ask yourself what two young Thai men who drive a BMW might earn their money doing?

The best advice on here so far has been to get rid of the bike. I would change my route to work and any easily identifiable clothes or helmet also.

[papa al]

Like overandout says.

Good idea.

If Beemer guy finds you on the street, you should be able to lane-split away.

Sometimes when someone is trying to make papa do something papa don't want,

papa acts crazy.

Spastic \ retarded \ cross eyes \ drool \ ticks, etc.

Practice in the mirror and with your friends for proficiency.

Edited October 29, 2015 by papa al

[papa al]

AllanB

You turned in front of her.?

Many drive too fast.

Unseen?

Rule# 1:

You need to check your mirror before changing lane dude.

Edited October 29, 2015 by papa al