Condo Lease Hell

[MaeJoMTB]

It was clear that the unit I had moved into had not been lived in for a long time, so even if providing a 30k washing machine it pays for itself over the course of 1 month. The agents and owner KNEW that I would not agree to the unit without them agreeing to the washer/dryer so if they had turned down my proposal they would've lost more money if the unit had went unrented even 2 more months and most likely a lot longer than that. And now they are going to be losing even more cash because they lost a tenant who would be paying an additional 11 months or 330,000 which they could have earned honestly.

I have a pal who rents out condos in Pattaya.

He would much rather have their two months deposit than their rent.

Two months with no wear and tear, and the chance to rent it a second time $$$$$$$s

[konying]

Totally agree with MaeJom

You also state ghetto washing machine ONLY cold water,

Thailand does not have hot water machines, because water heating is done by the heater not a central system.

May be exists somewhere i am yet to see it after 15 years.

Washer/dryer cost a fortune,really not sure why you believed they would give you new one and reduce the rent.

As you have nothing in writing, and have no evidence to support any of your claims or experience, i am sorry to say your money is gone.

They could get even more nasty if they wanted too and claim you stole the table and whatever else they can think of.

Sorry but not much you can do and i doubt anyone can help, mainly because no evidence at all

Not true - Washing machine heats up the incoming cold water unless its a crappy 5000 baht cheap one.

Decent dryers can be bought for 14,000 baht (new).

Why do I know this? I'm renting out my Apartment and have provide a Washing machine and a dryer.

Ironically enough for the Op - my unit is rented for 30,000 baht per month...

It seems the Op has made a mistake in signing the lease too early before agreements were made.

Unfortunately when renting it takes two decent parties for it to be a successful experience.

As a Landlord I find the Ops distress understandable and I empathise.

Moving forwards I'm not sure what the Op can do about this situation though.

See my 4th sentence?

I have 13000 baht Panasonic and it does not heat up water.

Now with your assertion of price, you think landlord would spend 15K on washer and another 15 K on dryer? thats one month rent

Then give another 1 month rent to agent and then reduce the rent?

It is not about right or wrong, but what OP can prove and in this case -NOTHING.

Any modifications that the landlord spends does not vanish and does not go into my pockets. If he puts a 30k washing machine in the unit it stays with the unit for as long as it is functioning and raises the value of his unit allowing him to rent for a higher price.

It was clear that the unit I had moved into had not been lived in for a long time, so even if providing a 30k washing machine it pays for itself over the course of 1 month. The agents and owner KNEW that I would not agree to the unit without them agreeing to the washer/dryer so if they had turned down my proposal they would've lost more money if the unit had went unrented even 2 more months and most likely a lot longer than that. And now they are going to be losing even more cash because they lost a tenant who would be paying an additional 11 months or 330,000 which they could have earned honestly.

Instead they obviously agreed to it because the knew I'd pass if they said no, and once I paid they just said "<deleted> it" and put in the cheapest washing machine they could find so they could pocket the additional cash. Trust me... it's cheap. I saw the unit at the store and it was the cheapest model.

Mate, you still failing to understand.

I am not against you and you do not need to argue with me.

I am telling you the hard truth.

All your justifications may well be valid, ONLY its totally useless in your situation, because you have NO PROOF.

PS. What makes you think they will not be able to rent it out with high season coming up?

You applying your Western logic, assuming locals think the same way, fact is they do not

Edited November 1, 2015 by konying

[slipperylobster]

Guess we lucked out twice in the last five years. We pay six months in advance and asked the owners to forget about any kind of deposits. Never had to deal with brokers...and would not want to. Takes alot of legwork and some fast talking, but can be done. Also got great reductions in rent. Chiang Mai has a glut of available accomodations 15 minutes out.

losing 60,000 in deposits is unacceptable for me. Must of had some very expensive furnishings in your place. Ours is a huge home...but renting nonetheless. In lieu of deposits I do all the minor maintenance myself. Owner is quite happy.

Perhaps dealing directly with the owner might of helped?

[mcfish]

Welcome to the he'll of having to rent. Rent or own? Thousands of rip off stories like yours never get posted due to feeling ashamed. the main reason I bought.my own space ..

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[slipperylobster]

buying is pretty much a one way ticket. We have not quite decided to stay longer than 18 months, and like the flexibility of renting. Also get tired of staying in one spot more that a few years.

I sure would hate being stuck with a condo in Thailand (making payments...as I cannot buy cash), and also try to finance a house back in the old country. Equally, would not want to be waiting for large deposits to be returned.

If not sure....renting is always advisable. Many wish Thailand to be their terminal destination...I sure don't.

[norfolkandchance]

Yawn Yawn. i'm off to bed

[scorecard]

Not exactly hell .......

Total overreaction on your part based on your inexperience.

You want special stuff done, you get an agreement in writing, then don't pay or move in until it's done.

Nobody made you hand the table over to a random woman with a key.

What part is an overreaction? The fact that I do not feel comfortable when groups of people are entering my room while I'm sleeping or the fact that I think I should get my deposit refunded when my lease states that I should? Or you also think it's okay for furniture to be removed from a place you've rented after you're already living there?

I understand I should have got the washer/dryer, table replacement, room cleaning, in writing. It is my mistake to trust someone... But like I said, I have rented lots of places before and never imagined that I would be blatantly lied to. I'm a nice guy... so yes it's stupid for me to think that people will placy nice back in return.

For me, not being able to shower, wash my clothes, and have people entering without permission is my idea of "hell"... And even if it's not hell it's reason enough that that I felt I had no choice to leave, even if only for the fact that other people have access to the room. I mean... cmon the owner says she didn't know I lived there and I had been there a week already? I was there with the agent when she was talking to the owner on the phone. But it's unclear who the owner even is since I am refused all details!

Mate, what you have to understand is that you have no evidence to prove any of this? Do you understand?

Did you make video of people in your room?

Did you make video of them removing things from condo?

Wise, would have been to have a meeting, and amend things that were removed from the condo, and later you could have used that as evidence.

I understand your frustration and anger, but sadly you really are out of luck, as i mentioned in my other post.

Without any evidence, its your word against hers or whoever and it means you get nothing.

You severely criticize the OP for not having 'evidence' but without any 'evidence' you make numerous absolute assumptions.

OP, suggest you ignore this guy.

[konying]

Now you stop trolling. He paid the full amount for what?

Where on the receipt it says what was included? You claim that the duty of evidence is one sided?

Are you really that thick? or just can not understand basic English?

OP stated he paid one month rent and 2 month deposit

DO you really struggle to comprehend that by paying full amount and moving in, OP accepted whatever contract may say, even if he did not have it or seen it

Please educate yourself a little, as clearly you never owned any property to rent to even comprehend how it works.

Its pretty clearly, you are clueless, so stop trolling

Statement from the OP in post #25

Yes, I am just asking if I have any legal case, primarily on the count that my lease states clearly that I should be refunded my deposit if the lease is terminated due to reasons that are of no fault of my own

Now who is the thick one? Now tell us again how they gonna add a page to that contract, that you claim there isn't ?

You

From the OP

So after another week I find another room and move my stuff out. I was there a total of 3 weeks. The agent had never brought me the signed copy of the lease from the owner (she put herself as the lessor), so I only have her contact details. I contact her and let her know all the things that happened and the reason I had to leave, starting with the fact that they did not deliver the washer/dryer as promised and ending with the fact that there was an intrusion from the "owner" who removed furnishings after I had already been living there.

[konying]

Not exactly hell .......

Total overreaction on your part based on your inexperience.

You want special stuff done, you get an agreement in writing, then don't pay or move in until it's done.

Nobody made you hand the table over to a random woman with a key.

What part is an overreaction? The fact that I do not feel comfortable when groups of people are entering my room while I'm sleeping or the fact that I think I should get my deposit refunded when my lease states that I should? Or you also think it's okay for furniture to be removed from a place you've rented after you're already living there?

I understand I should have got the washer/dryer, table replacement, room cleaning, in writing. It is my mistake to trust someone... But like I said, I have rented lots of places before and never imagined that I would be blatantly lied to. I'm a nice guy... so yes it's stupid for me to think that people will placy nice back in return.

For me, not being able to shower, wash my clothes, and have people entering without permission is my idea of "hell"... And even if it's not hell it's reason enough that that I felt I had no choice to leave, even if only for the fact that other people have access to the room. I mean... cmon the owner says she didn't know I lived there and I had been there a week already? I was there with the agent when she was talking to the owner on the phone. But it's unclear who the owner even is since I am refused all details!

Mate, what you have to understand is that you have no evidence to prove any of this? Do you understand?

Did you make video of people in your room?

Did you make video of them removing things from condo?

Wise, would have been to have a meeting, and amend things that were removed from the condo, and later you could have used that as evidence.

I understand your frustration and anger, but sadly you really are out of luck, as i mentioned in my other post.

Without any evidence, its your word against hers or whoever and it means you get nothing.

You severely criticize the OP for not having 'evidence' but without any 'evidence' you make numerous absolute assumptions.

OP, suggest you ignore this guy.

What assumptions did i make?

Did you have some advise for OP? besides ignoring me?

[DogNo1]

Ronald Reagan's wise words: trust but verify. That's what to do the next time around. Now you must calculate whether the aggravation of trying to extract your deposit from these unscrupulous people is worth it. If it were me, I'd just move on and chalk it up as a lesson learned. Good luck.

[dia1]

So after speaking with Consumer Protection Board it seems like yes, they can help me get my deposit back based on my contract and the situation. Unfortunately, I would need to begin by filing a police report and provide the report to them and then wait for 60 days of resolution.

I'll have to sleep on it, but the last thing I want is to have some weird situation sitting in the police database with my name attached and/or spend time in the police station filing statements. Although I haven't done anything wrong, just having my name in the police system weird me out a little bit. I'm not so much upset about losing 60k baht deposit more than I am upset about the people cashing in on the deposit through lies/deception and really poor behavior. It's just really messed up and makes me lose faith in people a little bit.

At the same it's the first time I've ever been burned like this as a renter, and now that I've experienced it once, I'll definitely never trust anyone again...

[konying]

So after speaking with Consumer Protection Board it seems like yes, they can help me get my deposit back based on my contract and the situation. Unfortunately, I would need to begin by filing a police report and provide the report to them and then wait for 60 days of resolution.

I'll have to sleep on it, but the last thing I want is to have some weird situation sitting in the police database with my name attached and/or spend time in the police station filing statements. Although I haven't done anything wrong, just having my name in the police system weird me out a little bit. I'm not so much upset about losing 60k baht deposit more than I am upset about the people cashing in on the deposit through lies/deception and really poor behavior. It's just really messed up and makes me lose faith in people a little bit.

At the same it's the first time I've ever been burned like this as a renter, and now that I've experienced it once, I'll definitely never trust anyone again...

Not to be an ass, but you posted at 19:29 pm on Sunday and at 22:40 you spoke to OCPB?

So they were open in the evening on Sunday night?

They told you to file police report about what? not having washer or someone entering your apartment some weeks ago?

[EmptyMind]

Thai Visa showing the animals at their best once again I see. It's like everyone on here instantly has a grudge against everyone else, especially people they don't know asking questions that they don't know the answers to. It's like a children's playground but makes a great read whilst sitting on the toilet. Keep it up ! Lol

[balo]

Totally agree with MaeJom

You also state ghetto washing machine ONLY cold water,

Thailand does not have hot water machines, because water heating is done by the heater not a central system.

May be exists somewhere i am yet to see it after 15 years.

Washer/dryer cost a fortune,really not sure why you believed they would give you new one and reduce the rent.

As you have nothing in writing, and have no evidence to support any of your claims or experience, i am sorry to say your money is gone.

They could get even more nasty if they wanted too and claim you stole the table and whatever else they can think of.

Sorry but not much you can do and i doubt anyone can help, mainly because no evidence at all

BS! I own a front load machine with hot water programs , I can wash my linen up to 90 degrees C if I want to, to get rid of bacteria . You can buy them anywhere , even BIG C from 15000 baht. A dryer is also possible to buy even if Thais normally hang out their clothes to dry.

The problem here is communication , if the renter asked for a hot water machine maybe the owner did not understand what she meant But OP should not have accepted the contract in the first place, never pay for anything until you have checked the place yourself and that everything works inside the house.

[TheCruncher]

Now you stop trolling. He paid the full amount for what?

Where on the receipt it says what was included? You claim that the duty of evidence is one sided?

Are you really that thick? or just can not understand basic English?

OP stated he paid one month rent and 2 month deposit

DO you really struggle to comprehend that by paying full amount and moving in, OP accepted whatever contract may say, even if he did not have it or seen it

Please educate yourself a little, as clearly you never owned any property to rent to even comprehend how it works.

Its pretty clearly, you are clueless, so stop trolling

Statement from the OP in post #25

Yes, I am just asking if I have any legal case, primarily on the count that my lease states clearly that I should be refunded my deposit if the lease is terminated due to reasons that are of no fault of my own

Now who is the thick one? Now tell us again how they gonna add a page to that contract, that you claim there isn't ?

You

From the OP

So after another week I find another room and move my stuff out. I was there a total of 3 weeks. The agent had never brought me the signed copy of the lease from the owner (she put herself as the lessor), so I only have her contact details. I contact her and let her know all the things that happened and the reason I had to leave, starting with the fact that they did not deliver the washer/dryer as promised and ending with the fact that there was an intrusion from the "owner" who removed furnishings after I had already been living there.

Well you conveniently forgot to read, and include in you drivel post, this line in the same OP.

A friend of mine looked at the lease and says that the clauses that state I'd be refunded were omitted from the thai language version... I'm sure on purpose as well.

How would the OP's friend be able to look at the contract if he didn't have one? Maybe he got it when he turned in the key?

Back to the guesthouse counter Lemoncake.

Edited November 1, 2015 by TheCruncher

[thaiduncankk]

Ask your 'Internet girlfriend' for help.

[KittenKong]

I suggest that the OP reports the matter to the local police, the tourist police, the tax office, the consumer protection people and also to the tourist court and the NCPO.

For future reference, when dealing with money or property in Thailand it's best to trust no one and never pay anything until you are sure you have exactly what you want. After you have paid you are unlikely to get anything more. And change the locks as soon as you move in.

As for the washing machines, front-loaders that heat water certainly do exist but top-loaders here seem to be only for cold water. Oddly the same model of top-loader sold in Malaysia will probably have a dual water inlet to with one for hot water rather than a built-in heater element (this certainly applies to mine). An internal thermostat regulates the balance between the two inlets.

Personally I find a cold water top-loader to be perfectly adequate.

[dia1]

So after speaking with Consumer Protection Board it seems like yes, they can help me get my deposit back based on my contract and the situation. Unfortunately, I would need to begin by filing a police report and provide the report to them and then wait for 60 days of resolution.

I'll have to sleep on it, but the last thing I want is to have some weird situation sitting in the police database with my name attached and/or spend time in the police station filing statements. Although I haven't done anything wrong, just having my name in the police system weird me out a little bit. I'm not so much upset about losing 60k baht deposit more than I am upset about the people cashing in on the deposit through lies/deception and really poor behavior. It's just really messed up and makes me lose faith in people a little bit.

At the same it's the first time I've ever been burned like this as a renter, and now that I've experienced it once, I'll definitely never trust anyone again...

Not to be an ass, but you posted at 19:29 pm on Sunday and at 22:40 you spoke to OCPB?

So they were open in the evening on Sunday night?

They told you to file police report about what? not having washer or someone entering your apartment some weeks ago?

No, I actually have Thai associates who work for the government who I detailed the situation to prior to making this post. They called CPB for me (before I saw a link that was posted earlier in this thread) and detailed the situation along with reading them the details of my contract. I need to file a police report indicating all the events that transpired as well as the their refusal to talk to me, hire a mediator, or follow through with the the deposit refund that the contract states I'm entitled to. My friends have been begging to help me for several days now, but I've kept them out of it 'til now as I don't like depending on people.

From what I understand the police won't do anything except issue a report or "note" which I provide to CPB. I didn't spend too much time getting further details as once I found that I needed to get the police involved I decided to step back and think about it. I would have much preferred to contact an attorney, but this isn't the west and I guess things aren't handled the same. I might contact one just to get his input anyway.

I'm not sure why you think I'd come on here to lie? That wouldn't do me any good...

Anyway thanks to all of you who tried to help. And sorry to those who I apparently offended or something by expecting people to have some sort of morality and self-righteousness.

[konying]

Well you conveniently forgot to read, and include in you drivel post, this line in the same OP.

A friend of mine looked at the lease and says that the clauses that state I'd be refunded were omitted from the thai language version... I'm sure on purpose as well.

How would the OP's friend be able to look at the contract if he didn't have one? Maybe he got it when he turned in the key?

Back to the guesthouse counter Lemoncake.

I am certain now you are rather thick.

OP has a piece of paper signed only by OP. And then on top It's different in 2 languages

Good luck with that in court or in police station

I am sure police and courts will accept English version .

Hard to believe the amount of stupid people posting utter drivel without using any logic at all.

Edited November 1, 2015 by konying

[konying]

So after speaking with Consumer Protection Board it seems like yes, they can help me get my deposit back based on my contract and the situation. Unfortunately, I would need to begin by filing a police report and provide the report to them and then wait for 60 days of resolution.

I'll have to sleep on it, but the last thing I want is to have some weird situation sitting in the police database with my name attached and/or spend time in the police station filing statements. Although I haven't done anything wrong, just having my name in the police system weird me out a little bit. I'm not so much upset about losing 60k baht deposit more than I am upset about the people cashing in on the deposit through lies/deception and really poor behavior. It's just really messed up and makes me lose faith in people a little bit.

At the same it's the first time I've ever been burned like this as a renter, and now that I've experienced it once, I'll definitely never trust anyone again...

Not to be an ass, but you posted at 19:29 pm on Sunday and at 22:40 you spoke to OCPB?

So they were open in the evening on Sunday night?

They told you to file police report about what? not having washer or someone entering your apartment some weeks ago?

No, I actually have Thai associates who work for the government who I detailed the situation to prior to making this post. They called CPB for me (before I saw a link that was posted earlier in this thread) and detailed the situation along with reading them the details of my contract. I need to file a police report indicating all the events that transpired as well as the their refusal to talk to me, hire a mediator, or follow through with the the deposit refund that the contract states I'm entitled to. My friends have been begging to help me for several days now, but I've kept them out of it 'til now as I don't like depending on people.

From what I understand the police won't do anything except issue a report or "note" which I provide to CPB. I didn't spend too much time getting further details as once I found that I needed to get the police involved I decided to step back and think about it. I would have much preferred to contact an attorney, but this isn't the west and I guess things aren't handled the same. I might contact one just to get his input anyway.

I'm not sure why you think I'd come on here to lie? That wouldn't do me any good...

Anyway thanks to all of you who tried to help. And sorry to those who I apparently offended or something by expecting people to have some sort of morality and self-righteousness.

Good luck ,hope it works out for you.

[ricklev]

Sometimes, for our own well being, it's best to view people screwing you over as just a simple misfortune like an act of nature.

Make a little effort to get your money back, don't obsess, accept bad luck with equanimity. Not easy, but there is no other option in life.

[Nick167]

The first thing is never....I repeat....never...trusts Thai Female Real Estate Agents especially those that speak English as they are real crooks and garbage. Period. HAd a lot of problems with these kinds in the past. They are worst than whores....some will even flirt with you to get a deal done and most will lie and are devious. I suggest that you post these agents names and mobile phones on sites like craiglists, etc to warn others against doing any business with them.

In my experience for the last 24 years in Thailand, always deal with owners directly thru sites like prakard, baht and sold, etc and whenever if an agent is involved, simply stay away. Most condo buidlings or the receptionists can give you access to an owner who is willing to rent. Foreign Real Estate Agents are even worsts, they think that Thailand is New York or London and will also rip you off with exorbitant rates so that they can make their commissions to flaunt it at the bars or pubs.

[ggt]

The only thing I find odd about your story is the amount you paid for the condo...most people I know...including myself have been renting for about half the price you have paid...

At least you have a condo...some pay their money...make the move...and find that they have been scammed and actual owner claims he knows nothing of the rental contract and has received no money...

So, you are doing about average with your transaction...as far as I can see...

Incidentally, It is not likely to get better...your deposit is probably lost as once a Thai gets money...they almost never return it...although they may tell you they will bring it tomorrow...

Welcome to Thailand and Good Luck...

[TheFishman1]

Good Luck trying to get ur money back TIT

[PattayaPhom]

Tell the agent you have contacted the tax office to confirm tax has been paid on your deposit!

Deposits are just that and not classed as income so no tax is due

[stgrhe]

An agent is just a go-between unless he/she can provide a duly authorised power of attorney. Lessen no. one, make shure you do business with the right person.

I agree with previous poster, never pay something for nothing - this is the golden rule in any kind of business. Paying upfront is always a big risk and if one does that one must that the risk into the equation.

The agent normally represent the owner, not the tennant and is thus part of the other part.

Use the standard contract for condo rent and make sure all additional agreements are listed, and finally signed and withnessed by the owner.

[steven100]

'It seems the Op has made a mistake in signing the lease too early before agreements were made.

Unfortunately when renting it takes two decent parties for it to be a successful experience.

As a Landlord I find the Ops distress understandable and I empathise.

Moving forwards I'm not sure what the Op can do about this situation though.'

The above statements are correct .......... The OP requested cleaning & washer/dryer and the table replaced. The OP should have waited until all requests were met and he was satisfied before signing or handing over one baht.

OP, you should have thought it through and CYA more before making hasty decisions.

[trogers]

I am a landlord, and I see a few problems with events mentioned.

First, a written contract should have been signed by both parties with the agreed terms, including the washer/dryer unit and replacement of the table.

Second, money should only be given after contract is signed to the unit owner who would issue a written receipt, and in my contracts, my tenants do bank transfers to my bank account stated in the rental contracts, thus keeping the transfer slips as evidence.

In no case should money be passed through a 3rd party, unless a power of attorney is presented.

Third, there should be enough time looking for a new place before the present lease expires, instead of rushing.

[pitchag]

contact consumer affairs they should be able to deal with it

[frimu]

Totally agree with MaeJom

You also state ghetto washing machine ONLY cold water,

Thailand does not have hot water machines, because water heating is done by the heater not a central system.

May be exists somewhere i am yet to see it after 15 years.

Washer/dryer cost a fortune,really not sure why you believed they would give you new one and reduce the rent.

As you have nothing in writing, and have no evidence to support any of your claims or experience, i am sorry to say your money is gone.

They could get even more nasty if they wanted too and claim you stole the table and whatever else they can think of.

Sorry but not much you can do and i doubt anyone can help, mainly because no evidence at all

We have a hot water washing machine in our condo, from Samsung. They do exist in Thailand.