Palestinians say amateur video backs claims of Israeli abuse

[webfact]

Palestinians say amateur video backs claims of Israeli abuse
By KARIN LAUB and JOSEF FEDERMAN

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) — Recent videos show Israeli troops shooting a wounded Palestinian at close range, pepper-spraying Palestinian medics, ramming a Palestinian with a jeep and threatening refugee camp residents with tear gas "until you die" unless they stop throwing stones.

Palestinians and Israeli human rights groups contend the images, many captured by amateur smartphone users, buttress long-standing allegations of excessive force — particularly amid a wave of Palestinian stabbing attacks in which top Israeli politicians and security commanders have encouraged forces to shoot to kill suspected assailants.

"There is a very clear message sent by those politicians and military commanders that this is how law enforcement should behave," said Sarit Michaeli of the Israeli group B'Tselem, which documents rights abuses.

Israel's army and police defended the actions shown in the videos, with the exception of an officer who was suspended over the tear gas threat.

"Our activities in all of the cases have been responses to Palestinian aggression," said Lt. Col. Peter Lerner, an Israeli military spokesman. Israel itself has released several videos showing its forces shooting stabbers.

Video footage is increasingly central in the competition over international opinion — a contest Palestinians say they often lost in the past when it came down to their word against that of the Israeli military or Jewish settlers.

In 2007, B'Tselem began distributing video cameras to Palestinians in West Bank hot spots, such as the Israeli-controlled center of Hebron, carved out for 850 Jewish settlers.

One of the first videos, showing a settler woman harassing a female Palestinian neighbor, went viral, Michaeli said. About 200 Palestinians have B'Tselem-issued cameras today.

With the rise in smartphone use — 10-fold over five years — the impact of such amateur images has only grown.

Take several controversial videos that have emerged in recent days.

One shows the aftermath of what Israeli police say was a stabbing attack of an Israeli soldier by 23-year-old Mahdi Mohtasseb last Thursday. The video begins with Mohtasseb lying face-down in a Hebron street — already wounded by Israeli fire, according to local activists.

A member of the Israeli security forces approaches and — as Mohtasseb slowly tries to lift himself — shoots him from about 15 feet (five meters). Mohtasseb is then shown lifeless and bloodied as Israel's paramilitary border police inspect the body.

Israeli police spokeswoman Luba Samri said Mohtasseb still posed a danger because he might have a gun or explosives and ignored calls not to move.

"He tried to get up" as a soldier approached, she said, adding that the officer who fired the fatal shot was "worthy of praise."

Shukri Mohtasseb, a cousin, said Mahdi Mohtasseb was planning on getting engaged and had no reason to carry out an attack. He maintained his cousin was unarmed, though he did not witness the incident.

"The soldiers ... could have arrested him because he was injured, but they killed him in cold blood," he said.

Israeli regulations permit security forces to use lethal force when they believe their lives are in danger — a subjective gauge, especially when Israelis are feeling so jittery.

Since mid-September, 11 Israelis have been killed and dozens wounded in Palestinian attacks, mostly stabbings, while 69 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli fire, including 43 who Israel says were involved in attacks or attempted attacks.

"We are faced with a reality of people walking down the street and pulling out a knife with lethal intentions," said Lerner, the military spokesman. "There are both means and intent on behalf of those attackers. That is why they have to be stopped, even at the price of lethal force."

Rights groups say Israeli troops are often too quick on the draw and are rarely held accountable.

Earlier this week, an Israeli military investigation cleared troops who killed 18-year-old Hadeel Hashlamoun at a Hebron checkpoint on Sept. 22 — a shooting London-based Amnesty International said was an apparent "extra-judicial execution."

The teen was behind a metal barrier, several yards (meters) from the soldiers, when she was shot dead, Amnesty said, citing a witness. It later turned out she held a knife under her robe, but never pulled it out, the group said.

The military says soldiers faced a "potentially life-threatening situation."

Photos show Hashlamoun facing a soldier with his assault rifle aimed at her. Video of the aftermath shows her body lying next to a metal turnstile, behind the metal barrier that separated her from the soldiers.

The Israeli watchdog group Yesh Din said soldiers face little risk of criminal charges over alleged abuses. Between 2010 and 2013, only 1.4 percent of Palestinian complaints led to indictments against soldiers, the group said. Lerner said military investigators are "completely independent" from the regular chain of command.

In one recent case, Israeli authorities said an officer was suspended after amateur video showed him patrolling the Aida refugee camp in a jeep, warning residents over a loudspeaker that if they kept throwing stones, "we will keep attacking you with tear gas. ... Everyone, until you die."

Camp resident Yazan Ikhlayel said he filmed the jeep on his smartphone after heavy clashes Thursday between stone-throwers and Israeli forces who he said fired dozens of tear gas canisters.

Ikhlayel said he was pleased with the suspension. "Now they know that any wrongdoing will be caught by smartphones and will be seen worldwide," he said.

But in another recent incident captured on camera, Israeli police defended troops, saying they used "reasonable force," in targeting medics and journalists with pepper spray.

The filmed confrontation begins with a firebomb hitting an Israeli jeep and bursting into flames on the hood and windshield. Moments later another jeep chases a group of Palestinians, slamming into one. Medics try to approach the injured youth but are pushed back by Israeli forces.

"This is pepper spray, go back," an officer shouts in Arabic, then begins spraying. Two medics fall to the ground, one groaning, and are carried away by colleagues.

Emirati television journalists Diya Hoshiya and Munther Khateeb said they were also hit with pepper spray. Video shows Hoshiya on the ground as a medic wipes his eyes. In another clip, Khateeb is seen being held in a chokehold by an officer, who Khateeb said pulled off his gas mask to spray his face.

Samri, the police spokeswoman, said that media and medical teams need to "act responsibly and follow police instructions" to prevent such confrontations in the future.

Michaeli, of B'Tselem, said the impact of amateur video should not be overestimated.

"If we have learned from past experiences, these soldiers are not facing any penalties," she said. "There is not going to be any real accountability."
___

Shooting of Mahdi Mohtasseb:

Jeep ramming Palestinian:

Border police patrol threatening residents of refugee camp: https://www.facebook.com/YaZaN.E5lAyeL/videos/10206598210846351/?pnref=story
___

Associated Press writer Mohammed Daraghmeh in Ramallah contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-11-04

[ezzra]

Yes it's all true, stop knifing innocent kids and the elderly in towns in Israel where you were permitted to work

for a living, you want to knife a solder, go for it, you will be shot on the spot,

Stop peaching and teaching hatred in your schools and mosques, stop the inciting and misguided

propaganda and messages to young minds of day of anger and uprising,

stop ramming people sitting in bus stops to death, stop throwing stones and projectiles, stop throwing

incendiary devices in order to burn people driving their cars, stop the mayhem and hostility and you will

stop dying and being wounded, arrested, beaten and pepper spray, you will stop the day you will realized

that you can not win.....

[pumpuy]

You cannot win either ... , or may be by using an Atomic bomb ... ?

bound to suffer for a long time .

I am not on the palestinian side , nor on the jewish , I just hate aggression .

It takes more strength to make peace than to make war .

Yes it's all true, stop knifing innocent kids and the elderly in towns in Israel where you were permitted to work

for a living, you want to knife a solder, go for it, you will be shot on the spot,

Stop peaching and teaching hatred in your schools and mosques, stop the inciting and misguided

propaganda and messages to young minds of day of anger and uprising,

stop ramming people sitting in bus stops to death, stop throwing stones and projectiles, stop throwing

incendiary devices in order to burn people driving their cars, stop the mayhem and hostility and you will

stop dying and being wounded, arrested, beaten and pepper spray, you will stop the day you will realized

that you can not win.....

Edited November 4, 2015 by pumpuy

[vogie]

Israels 'Hearts and Minds' policy really needs evaluating!

[Kasset Tak]

Yes it's all true, stop knifing innocent kids and the elderly in towns in Israel where you were permitted to work

for a living, you want to knife a solder, go for it, you will be shot on the spot,

Stop peaching and teaching hatred in your schools and mosques, stop the inciting and misguided

propaganda and messages to young minds of day of anger and uprising,

stop ramming people sitting in bus stops to death, stop throwing stones and projectiles, stop throwing

incendiary devices in order to burn people driving their cars, stop the mayhem and hostility and you will

stop dying and being wounded, arrested, beaten and pepper spray, you will stop the day you will realized

that you can not win.....

How far do you think the Israelis has pushed the Palestinians when the youth thinks that the only way out is to attack people with knifes and throw rocks when they are facing assault rifles and tanks?

Israel has been occupying the Palestinian land for a long time and even denies them basic human rights on the Gaza strip. Volunteer organisations has organized Ships to Gaza 2 times trying to get medicine, school books and what else needed for the infrastructure in to Gaza but Israelis stopped them and confiscated everything. During the first attempt the Israelis even killed some of the crew members while attacking the ships at night on international waters, the crew were not even armed!

If any other country around the world would do as Israel then US, UN and NATO would working hard to "solve" it (Syria, North Korea, Iraq and so on) but the Israelis are hiding behind WWII and what the Nazis did to the Jews. So maybe we should let Russia hide behind WWII and invade Ukraine or Poland as Germany killed more Russians than they killed Jews during WWII?!

[Rimmer]

An inflammatory post has been removed

[slipperylobster]

Israels 'Hearts and Minds' policy really needs evaluating!

stabbing innocents should be banned....

once that is accomplished...hand out chocolates?

Not going to work.

Israel is not going to disappear either. Perhaps palestine could also relocate..to Syria? Lots of room there now.

Edited November 4, 2015 by slipperylobster

[alanrchase]

Israels 'Hearts and Minds' policy really needs evaluating!

stabbing innocents should be banned....

once that is accomplished...hand out chocolates?

Not going to work.

Israel is not going to disappear either. Perhaps palestine could also relocate..to Syria? Lots of room there now.

Is Palestine not the same area as Israel claims? Israel bases its claim on a book.

[Steely Dan]

Pallywood releases videos for activists to howl at, they always omit the context behind what is filmed, and that's when they are not outright fabrications.

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/11/those-israelis-humiliating-innocent.html

[alanrchase]

Pallywood releases videos for activists to howl at, they always omit the context behind what is filmed, and that's when they are not outright fabrications.

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/11/those-israelis-humiliating-innocent.html

So shooting a person on the ground is alright?

[Steely Dan]

Pallywood releases videos for activists to howl at, they always omit the context behind what is filmed, and that's when they are not outright fabrications.

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/11/those-israelis-humiliating-innocent.html

So shooting a person on the ground is alright?

Looks for all the world like a Pallywood from the video posted here.

[alanrchase]

Pallywood releases videos for activists to howl at, they always omit the context behind what is filmed, and that's when they are not outright fabrications.

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/11/those-israelis-humiliating-innocent.html

So shooting a person on the ground is alright?

Looks for all the world like a Pallywood from the video posted here.

Granted. Camera never lies? Second vid? Explanation?

[Jingthing]

Let's get real here.

Sure, a lot of these news reports are fabricated Palestinian propaganda.

Pallywood is an industry there. That has been well documented. It's intent is to incite and win support for the Israeli demonization agenda of more naive people internationally.

It's clearly rather effective considering the number of people in the world that think Zionism is a dirty word and support the BDS movement.

But of course, there are also legitimately abusive incidents that happen, widely reported or not.

Nobody is claiming that Israel is perfect. Far from it.

But bottom line / bigger picture ... the aim of this Palestinian propaganda is what?
To suggest that Israel doesn't have the right to defend against Palestinian terrorists?

Nice try. No cigar.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Jingthing

[samuibeachcomber]

Just give the palestinians a proper homeland,give them some hope of a future that they can determine themselves.

[Jingthing]

Just give the palestinians a proper homeland,give them some hope of a future that they can determine themselves.

Most of them want that "homeland" to include Tel Aviv, etc. and have been brainwashed from babies to think Jews don't have a right to any state in the middle east.

Therein lies the problem.

[alanrchase]

Just give the palestinians a proper homeland,give them some hope of a future that they can determine themselves.

Yes, tell international media you are doing it then slowly take it away.

[alanrchase]

Just give the palestinians a proper homeland,give them some hope of a future that they can determine themselves.

Most of them want that "homeland" to include Tel Aviv, etc. and have been brainwashed from babies to think Jews don't have a right to any state in the middle east.

Therein lies the problem.

So what to the non Jews have a right to after living there for hundreds of years?

[Jingthing]

Just give the palestinians a proper homeland,give them some hope of a future that they can determine themselves.

Most of them want that "homeland" to include Tel Aviv, etc. and have been brainwashed from babies to think Jews don't have a right to any state in the middle east.

Therein lies the problem.

So what to the non Jews have a right to after living there for hundreds of years?

Not interested in getting into this endless loop with you. It's just too tedious. Israel has a right to exist. That's not negotiable. The reality you want to sell is this is all Isreal's fault. The truth is a lot more complex. Currently, there is not leadership on EITHER side that is available for good faith negotiation towards a real two state solution.

But your post is revealing. Many many people who claim they just want a Palestinian state to live side by side with Israel in peace are obviously lying. So many agree with most of the Palestinians that the Jews should be kicked out, or killed if they don't leave voluntarily. Israelis aren't fooled and that's why the right wing is so strong there. Why assist the creation of a stronger Palestinian state that doesn't accept your right to exist?

Yes, a real two state solution remains the only decent choice that respects both peoples ... but how we get there from here, that's the 64 billion shekel question.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Jingthing

[alanrchase]

Just give the palestinians a proper homeland,give them some hope of a future that they can determine themselves.

Most of them want that "homeland" to include Tel Aviv, etc. and have been brainwashed from babies to think Jews don't have a right to any state in the middle east.

Therein lies the problem.

So what to the non Jews have a right to after living there for hundreds of years?

Not interested in getting into this endless loop with you. It's just too tedious. Israel has a right to exist. That's not negotiable. The reality you want to sell is this is all Isreal's fault. The truth is a lot more complex. Currently, there is not leadership on EITHER side that is available for good faith negotiation towards a real two state solution.

But your post is revealing. Many many people who claim they just want a Palestinian state to live side by side with Israel in peace are obviously lying. So many agree with most of the Palestinians that the Jews should be kicked out, or killed if they don't leave voluntarily. Israelis aren't fooled and that's why the right wing is so strong there. Why assist the creation of a stronger Palestinian state that doesn't accept your right to exist?

No problem with you. The people who are now known as Palestinians may have lived there longer than the Jews. Why buldoze their land?

[Jingthing]

This balanced video is revealing.

Especially the last part about the wall:

[tartempion]

As a tourist driving a rented car I was shot at by two 8 year young Palestinians with imaginary guns in a village near Betlehem. tatatatataratata.

There is no hope for these people.

[alanrchase]

This balanced video is revealing.

Especially the last part about the wall:

Thanks for the American view of the Middle East. Always amusing.

[Jingthing]

This balanced video is revealing.

Especially the last part about the wall:

Thanks for the American view of the Middle East. Always amusing.

You didn't even watch it as you couldn't have already.

First of all, the interviewer is CANADIAN.

Secondly, the vast majority of the video is about the Palestinians SPEAKING FOR THEMSELVES.

[Steely Dan]

Pallywood releases videos for activists to howl at, they always omit the context behind what is filmed, and that's when they are not outright fabrications.

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/11/those-israelis-humiliating-innocent.html

So shooting a person on the ground is alright?

Looks for all the world like a Pallywood from the video posted here.

Granted. Camera never lies? Second vid? Explanation?

The camera usually lies when it comes from a Palestinian source, but here's a pro-forma answer for any Israel thread. Should an Israeli be convicted of wrongdoing I condemn their actions and trust they will be punished in accordance with the law, however I will wait for judicial process before making further comment. I haven't had chance to look at the vehicle clip yet, but have seen a similar one presented as An Israeli running over a Palestinian which you could even see from the video was a lie. There is usually more than a little projection in these videos considering the number of instances of Palestinian terrorists running over Israelis, though seldom if ever a thread discussing such incidents.

[alanrchase]

This balanced video is revealing.

Especially the last part about the wall:

Thanks for the American view of the Middle East. Always amusing.

You didn't even watch it as you couldn't have already.

First of all, the interviewer is CANADIAN.

Secondly, the vast majority of the video is about the Palestinians SPEAKING FOR THEMSELVES.

Kho toot.

[Jingthing]

Kho toot.

I don't have time to consider such worthless posts.

Welcome to my ignore list.

[alanrchase]

Pallywood releases videos for activists to howl at, they always omit the context behind what is filmed, and that's when they are not outright fabrications.

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/11/those-israelis-humiliating-innocent.html

So shooting a person on the ground is alright?

Looks for all the world like a Pallywood from the video posted here.

Granted. Camera never lies? Second vid? Explanation?

The camera usually lies when it comes from a Palestinian source, but here's a pro-forma answer for any Israel thread. Should an Israeli be convicted of wrongdoing I condemn their actions and trust they will be punished in accordance with the law, however I will wait for judicial process before making further comment. I haven't had chance to look at the vehicle clip yet, but have seen a similar one presented as An Israeli running over a Palestinian which you could even see from the video was a lie. There is usually more than a little projection in these videos considering the number of instances of Palestinian terrorists running over Israelis, though seldom if ever a thread discussing such incidents.

Who cares? Nothing will happen. Yesterday's news.

[alanrchase]

Kho toot.

I don't have time to consider such worthless posts.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Ta.

[cooked]

Most of them want that "homeland" to include Tel Aviv, etc. and have been brainwashed from babies to think Jews don't have a right to any state in the middle east.

Therein lies the problem.

So what to the non Jews have a right to after living there for hundreds of years?

Not interested in getting into this endless loop with you. It's just too tedious. Israel has a right to exist. That's not negotiable. The reality you want to sell is this is all Isreal's fault. The truth is a lot more complex. Currently, there is not leadership on EITHER side that is available for good faith negotiation towards a real two state solution.

But your post is revealing. Many many people who claim they just want a Palestinian state to live side by side with Israel in peace are obviously lying. So many agree with most of the Palestinians that the Jews should be kicked out, or killed if they don't leave voluntarily. Israelis aren't fooled and that's why the right wing is so strong there. Why assist the creation of a stronger Palestinian state that doesn't accept your right to exist?

No problem with you. The people who are now known as Palestinians may have lived there longer than the Jews. Why buldoze their land?

Oh boy. You may want to google where these people came from. Abas refuses to sit down for talks with Israel. He said recently that all Jews should be knifed. What news chain do you follow?

[alanrchase]

Most of them want that "homeland" to include Tel Aviv, etc. and have been brainwashed from babies to think Jews don't have a right to any state in the middle east.

Therein lies the problem.

So what to the non Jews have a right to after living there for hundreds of years?

Not interested in getting into this endless loop with you. It's just too tedious. Israel has a right to exist. That's not negotiable. The reality you want to sell is this is all Isreal's fault. The truth is a lot more complex. Currently, there is not leadership on EITHER side that is available for good faith negotiation towards a real two state solution.

But your post is revealing. Many many people who claim they just want a Palestinian state to live side by side with Israel in peace are obviously lying. So many agree with most of the Palestinians that the Jews should be kicked out, or killed if they don't leave voluntarily. Israelis aren't fooled and that's why the right wing is so strong there. Why assist the creation of a stronger Palestinian state that doesn't accept your right to exist?

No problem with you. The people who are now known as Palestinians may have lived there longer than the Jews. Why buldoze their land?

Oh boy. You may want to google where these people came from. Abas refuses to sit down for talks with Israel. He said recently that all Jews should be knifed. What news chain do you follow?

Google? Before Jews, Muslims etc. Who lived there? The "Promised" due to a book and the actual residents. Who cares what religion they are?