Questions about seller default of condo sales agreement

[wpcoe]

I would like to confirm the "real world" meaning of the following section in a Property Sales Agreement:

The PURCHASER agrees that if they fail to pay the final balance of xxxxxx Baht on or before [date] they will forfeit both above-mentioned deposit as compensation to the SELLER and will also forfeit their right of purchase. Should the SELLER fail to complete the transfer through their own will, they are liable to pay back both the deposit and same amount again as compensation to the PURCHASER. In the event the PURCHASER fails to complete the purchase, [name of agency] shall retain 25% of any and all deposits paid in lieu of services rendered.

Does the second sentence mean that if the seller defaults on the agreement, the buyer gets double their deposit back? If so, how does that work if the seller balks? Is it a somewhat common (routine? simple?) action to file a lien against the chanote for the amount? Or, is it a more complex action like a civil law suit to sue for the funds?

What does "through their own will" encompass? Would it require "malicious intent?" Would simple lack of timely follow through (on the seller’s part) be included?

Nowhere in the contract is there specified a date for the buyer to consummate the deal, so does the seller have an open-ended period to drag things out? The only other reference to a deadline in the contract is:

The full balance of xxxxxx Baht is to be paid to the SELLER before the PURCHASER shall assume legal ownership of the above described PROPERTY. The full balance must be paid on or before [same date as in other section].

This enquiring mind would like to know.

[KittenKong]

Sounds like a typical meaningless Thai contract. If the vendor defaults you should get the deposit you paid plus a second sum equal to that deposit. However if there is no cut-off date then you can whistle for it.

Even if there is a cut-off date the main problem is that this is a civil matter and so you would have to take the vendor to court to get anything. The amount of a deposit on cheaper condos could fall into the remit of the "Tourist Courts", which are supposedly much quicker and easier assuming that you have one where you are. Worth checking.

[peterrabbit]

Yes - now try and sue them through a Thai civil court. If you don't have a criminal case forget it. Just throwing good money after bad.

[bazza40]

The arguments for renting keep on mounting up - why would anyone sign a contract couched in such vague terms?

[wpcoe]

Why assume I am the buyer?

Actually, I'm both buying a condo and selling one, so I want to know how these contracts really work. It can cut both ways, I guess.

In the case of me as the buyer, I don't think the seller is maliciously delaying the closing, but can't be sure. I don't see what's in it for him to do so. He's at home in Europe and very slow at corresponding with my agent. He also is not sure where the chanote is, so we may need to apply for a replacement chanote at the Land Office. All in all, probably not an ideal situation, but how was I to predict that before entering into a sales agreement?

As long as I haven't sold my current condo I guess I can afford to be patient, but patience in abundance is not something with which I was born. My initial offer was e-mailed to my agent in late August, it was countered and I accepted and signed the sales contract early September. We're now well into November, and I'm weighing my options, hence this thread. There is only one other condo I've seen so far that I'd be interested in placing an offer if this deal falls through.

And, as much as everybody touts that it's a buyer's market, I had submitted offers on two others in Jomtien: B2.1m for a 64 sq.m one-bedroom listed for B2.3m, and B2.4m for a 60 sq.m studio listed for B2.5m. Both offers were refused by their farang owners, one quite angrily. Also, I learned that a couple units I had looked at had had offers (from other buyers) refused that were B200k to B300k below asking price. I don't think any of those were unreasonable offers, but the sellers were not budging.

[KittenKong]

In the case of me as the buyer, I don't think the seller is maliciously delaying the closing, but can't be sure. I don't see what's in it for him to do so. He's at home in Europe and very slow at corresponding with my agent. He also is not sure where the chanote is, so we may need to apply for a replacement chanote at the Land Office. All in all, probably not an ideal situation, but how was I to predict that before entering into a sales agreement?

Huh? You made an offer, signed a contract and paid a deposit without ever seeing the original chanote? Wow! You are significantly more trusting than I am.

And, as much as everybody touts that it's a buyer's market, I had submitted offers on two others in Jomtien: B2.1m for a 64 sq.m one-bedroom listed for B2.3m, and B2.4m for a 60 sq.m studio listed for B2.5m. Both offers were refused by their farang owners, one quite angrily. Also, I learned that a couple units I had looked at had had offers (from other buyers) refused that were B200k to B300k below asking price. I don't think any of those were unreasonable offers, but the sellers were not budging.

It is a buyer's market if you have a serious seller. Apparently the people you are dealing with are not very serious about selling. There are many people here with property perpetually up for sale at absurdly high prices, in the hope that an idiot will come along and pay that high price. And there are also people who genuinely want to sell. The trick is to ignore the former and deal with the latter.

[blackcab]

I would be tempted to go to the land office and pay the fee to get a copy of the chanote.

Just to check if there are any outstanding loans and also that the person you are dealing with is the owner.

[wpcoe]

FWIW, I have a photocopy of the chanote. What's missing is the original.

[KittenKong]

FWIW, I have a photocopy of the chanote. What's missing is the original.

I dont think that a photocopy is worth very much.

In Thailand I have two very simple axioms: "check everything" and "trust no one".

[wpcoe]

Why am I reminded of the fellow who used to take a flashlight to the gogo bars to do closeup orifice exams before paying the off fee?

Seriously, though, I never considered insisting to see the original chanote before signing a sales agreement. But, live and learn!