ATM fees rise again

[Pib]

Keep in mind some banks such as Krungsri do have some debit cards which provide free ATM withdrawals but they may be tied to certain types of deposit accounts which have specific rules and fees which may make a person not want that specific type of account which means you don't get that particlar card. Krungsri has a debit card that generally follows the generic withdrawal fees I mentioned earlier and they also have a debit card with no withdrawal fees tied to another kind of account. I even have a Krungsri account which is a high interest paying savings account but it's debit card only offers 2 free withdrawals per month then 3 and up will cost you 50 baht per withdrawals.

Be sure to look at the associated account interest and fees versus looking at the card withdrawal fees only.

[stament]

Looks like I have a bit of research to do then as dont want to be limited on the number of withdrawals

[Pib]

Yea, it's not like a bank only provides one debit card product. And watch out for the cards that come with accident insurance as that really raises the card's annual fee. The devil can be in the details.

[RidgeRunner]

The answer? Buy the Bank stock.

[Langsuan Man]

Does the statement on the machine "All Bank Cards Welcome Here" in any way relate to whether or not bank fees are charged for Thai ATM cards ?

I ask because I was short of cash for a purchase the other day and the only ATM available was Krungthai Bank and they did not charge me anything to get cash out of my SCB account

[lopburi3]

All the major banks belong to the "ATM Pool" and as said at least the first 4 transactions per month are without charge to allow occasional use and normally they will have that marked on them somewhere. Believe there was talk about not charging even over four recently but unsure as never need more than once or twice as make larger withdrawals rather than use ATM daily.

[VBF]

It's easy, have a thai bank account.

You want everyone who comes here to open a Thai bank account ?

Bring cash then if you're a tourist, if not then open an account.

True but then you potentially run up against anti money laundering rules taking hard cash out of the Country without receipts. Remember its only £1,000 out of the UK before questions can be asked, not the widely thought 10,000 Euro which is Declaration level.

Most tourists are still unaware despite that being the law for 10 years

Chivas - I find that a little difficult to believe especially in the light of this https://www.gov.uk/bringing-cash-into-uk

Are you saying that if one was carrying, say £5000 (which one had taken out of a savings account) through London airport for a 5 month holiday, one might be in trouble?

Could you possibly be thinking about this (dated 2007) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1554683/Travellers-with-over-6700-must-tell-taxman.html which includes the paragraph:

"Interestingly, the notice on HMRC's website also says they have the right to seize any sum exceeding £1,000 if they suspect it is the proceeds of crime."

It goes on to say:

"A spokesman for HMRC said the £1,000 limit was introduced under the Proceeds of Crime Act five years ago."

Being a law-abiding person, I've never actually been asked how much cash i'm carrying at any UK airport!

I'm certainly not casting aspersions, you understand - just curious!

Edited November 12, 2015 by VBF

[roo860]

If you've obtained the money legally then you have no problem, was stopped a couple of years ago boarding a flight, had a large amount of cash. Answered all the questions, sent on my way.

[chiang mai]

Regardless of the levels involved, 1k, 2k or 5k, it's not unusual to see sniffer dog teams checking passengers at the gate at Heathrow.

[VBF]

Regardless of the levels involved, 1k, 2k or 5k, it's not unusual to see sniffer dog teams checking passengers at the gate at Heathrow.

This may be slightly but does anyone know if the banks are still allowing "over the counter" withdrawals from foreign (UK) debit cards? They used to but i seem to recall that was stopped.

In my case I have an SCB account so could do what I've done in the past, namely go into the bank with my card, passport and passbook and request (say) 50,000 Baht (approx £1000) to be withdrawn from my UK card (which allows max £2000/day)

and paid into the SCB account.

Then just draw down on that as i need it, using my SCB card in SCB ATMs.

Last time I did that was in 2013 but, as i say, I seem to recall reading that it had been stopped.

Anyone done it recently?

[tropo]

... When you do a Bt25K counter withdrawal...

Is the exchange rate the same as with an ATM withdrawal?

You get the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate whether an ATM or counter withdrawal. Of course this assumes you don't accept a DCC transaction which is a lower rate set by the bank.

I don't accept the bank's ATM rate, but when I use my MasterCard (debit card) to purchase directly from merchants I get a higher rate than when making ATM cash withdrawals.

[tropo]

Chivas - I find that a little difficult to believe especially in the light of this https://www.gov.uk/bringing-cash-into-uk

Are you saying that if one was carrying, say £5000 (which one had taken out of a savings account) through London airport for a 5 month holiday, one might be in trouble?

Could you possibly be thinking about this (dated 2007) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1554683/Travellers-with-over-6700-must-tell-taxman.html which includes the paragraph:

"Interestingly, the notice on HMRC's website also says they have the right to seize any sum exceeding £1,000 if they suspect it is the proceeds of crime."

It goes on to say:

"A spokesman for HMRC said the £1,000 limit was introduced under the Proceeds of Crime Act five years ago."

Being a law-abiding person, I've never actually been asked how much cash i'm carrying at any UK airport!

I'm certainly not casting aspersions, you understand - just curious!

You can take $10,000 cash out of Australia legally without declaring it. If you want to take out more you just have to prove where it has come from, in which case a withdrawal slip could be provided.

[Pib]

... When you do a Bt25K counter withdrawal...

Is the exchange rate the same as with an ATM withdrawal?

You get the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate whether an ATM or counter withdrawal. Of course this assumes you don't accept a DCC transaction which is a lower rate set by the bank.

I don't accept the bank's ATM rate, but when I use my MasterCard (debit card) to purchase directly from merchants I get a higher rate than when making ATM cash withdrawals.

The Visa/Mastecard rate is the same for cash or purchase.

Unless you are actually accepting DCC when doing the ATM cash withdrawal (I know you said you are not), your card-issuing bank, repeat card-issuing bank, is probably the reason for the different rate you get because they are applying a different foreign transaction fee(s) depending on whether it's a purchase or cash withdrawal. In some cases for a withdrawal at flat fee and percentage fee may be applied where with a purchase only the percentage fee is applied. I don't know what bank your cards are issued by and from what country, but take a look at the webpage which gives some examples of how U.S. debit cards may apply a different fee(s) depending on whether its a cash withdrawal or purchase.

And if your card-issuing bank don't clearly break out on your statement the fees they applied and instead just mix it in with the cash/purchase amount then a person can easily be fooled into thinking that was the Visa/Mastercard rate---Visa/Mastercard is the one that gave me a different rate---nope, it was due to fees applied by your card issuing bank which altered the Visa/Mastercard rate.

It's not Visa/Mastercard giving you a different rate between a purchase or cash withdrawal, it's your card-issuing bank applying a fee or you are indeed accepting a DCC transaction. I use my Visa and Mastercard no foreign transaction fee cards all the time in Thailand....whether it's a cash or purchase the exchange rate always matches the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate.

I would recommend you take another look at the foreign transaction fees which may apply to your card.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Pib

[soomak]

The ATM withdrawal fee in the Philippines is 200 Pesos where 1 peso is worth maybe 10% less than 1 Baht. There is also a daily 20,000 peso limit and 10,000pesos is the max withdrawal at any one time. Plus my Aussie bank has a cut and currency conversion fee.

200 php = 152 thb

You can always check that in Google (write: "200 php in thb" or any other currency you want)

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The new Thai ATM fee on foreign cards of 200 baht works out to about $5.57 U.S. at the current exchange rate.

By comparison, saw this in a recent email from Fidelity Brokerage in the U.S.

Banks typically charge fees for having a checking account, and using an ATM or overdraft protection. While these fees may seem small, they can add up quickly. The average surcharge that [u.S.] banks charge noncustomers who use their ATMs is $2.77.

Thus, as I mentioned above, the current Thai ATM fee on foreign cards is just about double the U.S. banks average for the ATM fees they charge customers from other banks. The average is from Bankrate.com's 2015 Checking Account Survey.

That's how far out of whack the current, newly raised Thai ATM fee has gotten to be.

[lopburi3]

Apples and oranges - that is a domestic charge to use another banks ATM inside one country - which in Thailand is only 20 baht and in most cases is not even charged (if a pool member bank). So guess who wins that comparison?

[Pib]

The new Thai ATM fee on foreign cards of 200 baht works out to about $5.57 U.S. at the current exchange rate.

By comparison, saw this in a recent email from Fidelity Brokerage in the U.S.

Banks typically charge fees for having a checking account, and using an ATM or overdraft protection. While these fees may seem small, they can add up quickly. The average surcharge that [u.S.] banks charge noncustomers who use their ATMs is $2.77.

Thus, as I mentioned above, the current Thai ATM fee on foreign cards is just about double the U.S. banks average for the ATM fees they charge customers from other banks. The average is from Bankrate.com's 2015 Checking Account Survey.

That's how far out of whack the current, newly raised Thai ATM fee has gotten to be.

The Fidelity report conflicts with a very recent Bankrate.com report which says it's $4.52 (approx Bt160) for an out-of-network withdrawal in the U.S. Hard to figure out which report to believe unless they are comparing out-of-network fee and in-network fees differently. But one thing I do know when a Thai bank debit card is used in another Thai bank's ATM out of the person's home banking province/region (i.e., an out-of-network withdrawal) they are generally hit with a Bt20 fee; but when a foreign card is used in a Thai bank ATM the out-of-network fee is now Bt200. A 10 times higher out of network fee, but farangs can afford to pay 10 times more so mai pen rai.

See below article and partial quote from the Wall Street Journal 4 Oct 15

http://www.wsj.com/articles/atm-fees-rise-toward-5-per-withdrawal-1443981841

And by the way, today I went to use two of my U.S. no foreign transaction fee debit cards to get money from an ATM...I used/tried three different bank ATMs since two of the bank ATM (TMB and Krungsri) just didn't want to accept my Schwab debt card...I ended up using a KrungThai ATM for the Schwab card. Anyway, the fee that Krungsri showed was Bt200, KrungThai Bt200, and TMB Bt180. I expect TMB just hasn't got around to updating all their ATM yet...the receipt also showed Bt180. By the way, KrungThai bank ATM has a max withdrawal of Bt20K....Krungsri Bt30K and TMB Bt30K.

I've had problems with my new Schwab "with chip" card being accepted in the TMB and Krungsri ATMs I always use in this one mall...in fact, two months ago I had Schwab send me a new chipped card since it worked sometimes and sometimes it didn't using the same ATMs. Got the new card last month and tested it in a Krungsri ATM...it worked...but today it didn't want to work in a Krungsri or TMB ATMs, but worked fine in the KrungThai ATM. I expect there is a compatibility issue between some ATMs and the new Schwab chipped card. I'll test it again next month to see what happens. I've already called Schwab about the issue and the only attempted transaction they saw was the one successful one...they said that usually means that even though you have successfully logged on the ATM with your PIN the ATM is still not connecting properly to the Visa network and then you get an error/message saying contact your card-issuing bank. Just try another ATM when that happens because it may just be an ATM/network problem vs your card being blocked. My non-chipped Schwab card never had this issue...only since getting the chipped card has this problem appeared. Yea, I'll try again next month and maybe even use some TMB/Krungsri ATMs in another mall.

Regarding TMB still charging Bt180, I remember when AEON started charging Bt150 back in early 2014 while some people were posting they were getting hit with the Bt150 fee I was still not getting hit with the fee...but around month later the AEON ATM I always used started charging the Bt150 (and dropped the max withdrawal from Bt30K to Bt20K). I guess for at least some ATMs it takes more than just a software/programming push from upstream to change a fee and instead it requires a manual update with a tech doing an onsite update, but I'm just guessing.

[WorkingTourist]

The new Thai ATM fee on foreign cards of 200 baht works out to about $5.57 U.S. […] That's how far out of whack the current, newly raised Thai ATM fee has gotten to be.

I have a Wells Fargo ATM card.

I can go to any Thai bank and pay ฿200 to withdraw ฿20-30k.

Or I can do a wire transfer from Wells Fargo to my Thai bank account to withdraw for free, except Wells Fargo charges me $45 (฿1617) for this!

Talk about out of whack!

[tropo]

The Visa/Mastecard rate is the same for cash or purchase.

Unless you are actually accepting DCC when doing the ATM cash withdrawal (I know you said you are not), your card-issuing bank, repeat card-issuing bank, is probably the reason for the different rate you get because they are applying a different foreign transaction fee(s) depending on whether it's a purchase or cash withdrawal. In some cases for a withdrawal at flat fee and percentage fee may be applied where with a purchase only the percentage fee is applied. I don't know what bank your cards are issued by and from what country, but take a look at the webpage which gives some examples of how U.S. debit cards may apply a different fee(s) depending on whether its a cash withdrawal or purchase.

And if your card-issuing bank don't clearly break out on your statement the fees they applied and instead just mix it in with the cash/purchase amount then a person can easily be fooled into thinking that was the Visa/Mastercard rate---Visa/Mastercard is the one that gave me a different rate---nope, it was due to fees applied by your card issuing bank which altered the Visa/Mastercard rate.

It's not Visa/Mastercard giving you a different rate between a purchase or cash withdrawal, it's your card-issuing bank applying a fee or you are indeed accepting a DCC transaction. I use my Visa and Mastercard no foreign transaction fee cards all the time in Thailand....whether it's a cash or purchase the exchange rate always matches the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate.

I would recommend you take another look at the foreign transaction fees which may apply to your card.

The difference was quite substantial actually. So much so that I severely limit the number of cash transactions I do with this particular card. I have debit/credit cards issued in different countries and and haven't tested them all out - the card in question was a Philippine bank issued card. I never accept the exchange rate offered on the ATM.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The new Thai ATM fee on foreign cards of 200 baht works out to about $5.57 U.S. at the current exchange rate.

By comparison, saw this in a recent email from Fidelity Brokerage in the U.S.

Banks typically charge fees for having a checking account, and using an ATM or overdraft protection. While these fees may seem small, they can add up quickly. The average surcharge that [u.S.] banks charge noncustomers who use their ATMs is $2.77.

Thus, as I mentioned above, the current Thai ATM fee on foreign cards is just about double the U.S. banks average for the ATM fees they charge customers from other banks. The average is from Bankrate.com's 2015 Checking Account Survey.

That's how far out of whack the current, newly raised Thai ATM fee has gotten to be.

The Fidelity report conflicts with a very recent Bankrate.com report which says it's $4.52 (approx Bt160) for an out-of-network withdrawal in the U.S. Hard to figure out which report to believe unless they are comparing out-of-network fee and in-network fees differently.

Pib...both are correct. I know the larger figure you're referencing above. It's the combination of what the ATM owning bank charges a non customer AND what the person's own bank charges them for using an out of network ATM (not one belonging to their own bank).

To keep it an apples to apples comparison, as Lopburi put it, the equivalent of the Thai bank 200 baht fee for foreign cardholders here is ONLY what the U.S. bank would charge a Thai customer using their Thai card in the U.S., that's the $2.77 average amount.

I deliberated omitted the additional potential for what the Thai bank might charge its own customer for using an out of network (non Thai ATM), just as the 200 baht Thai ATM fee doesn't include any additional amounts that a person's home country bank might charge them for using a foreign ATM.

Thus, the $2.77 average U.S. ATM fee (what the ATM owning banks charge card holders from other banks) is exactly equivalent/comparable to the Thai bank 200 baht fee. That's the average that a U.S.bank would charge a Thai bank cardholder using their U.S. ATM, comparable to what the Thai banks charge us.

It's also worth noting that the U.S. banks, for all their other faults, AFAIK, don't discriminate financially against tourists/foreign ATM card users, unlike the Thai banks. If you go to use a BofA ATM in the U.S., they're going to charge exactly the same ATM fee to a U.S. Well Fargo ATM card holder (non network) as they're going to charge a foreign Visa or MC cardholder. It's all out of network,, and thus treated comparably. Not so here in Thailand, where tourists and expats are reamed.

Edited November 13, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Expattaff1308]

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Get your first transfer free up to 3,000 pounds/sterling https://transferwise.com/u/0c72e

Have to agree!!

Transferwise cheaper than my Bank (Nationwide) and a better rate than the TT Rate.

Here's another cheapie, Xendpay....https://secure.xendpay.com/signup/ur/E368103 Check it out, after all if you are getting upset over the ATM charges look for alternatives.

[tropo]

Regarding TMB still charging Bt180, I remember when AEON started charging Bt150 back in early 2014 while some people were posting they were getting hit with the Bt150 fee I was still not getting hit with the fee...but around month later the AEON ATM I always used started charging the Bt150 (and dropped the max withdrawal from Bt30K to Bt20K). I guess for at least some ATMs it takes more than just a software/programming push from upstream to change a fee and instead it requires a manual update with a tech doing an onsite update, but I'm just guessing.

Just took some cash out of a TMB ATM today - still 180 baht.

[Chivas]

I forget who I was relying to here because on submission it threw te post out for too many quotes

This was in response to the £1,000 limit out of uk before questions can be asked.

"Nope its £1000 limit before questions "can be asked". Note the emphasis. Doesn't mean to say you have a problem per se but you "can" be asked to produce evidence (atm receipts) that the hard cash is lawfully in your possession. In practice few have problems or have had including me !!

Watch any of the Customs and Excise programmes on pick tv. Like yourself most are unaware. Now the same £1,000 limit applies to walking around money in the uk. I should know because I probably hold the record of having £1,012 detained and subsequently confiscated because couldn't prove origin.

The 10,000 Euro limit is declaration level. If you're stopped on final gate without declaration its almost certainly detained pending further investigation. again doesn't mean you lose it per se but proof of origin will be sought.

Trust me once you have lost £1,012 you tend to know the law !!

The chances of being sniffed by a money dog on final gate at Heathrow are remote but I have been stopped 3 times for routine checks since the law was introduced by Officers. Give answers of won it on the dogs or at the bookies and without question you'll fly without it !! Thats just the answers they want !! "

[stament]

Apples and oranges - that is a domestic charge to use another banks ATM inside one country - which in Thailand is only 20 baht and in most cases is not even charged (if a pool member bank). So guess who wins that comparison?

Personally I prefer apples but am partial to orange juice

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I forget who I was relying to here because on submission it threw te post out for too many quotes

This was in response to the £1,000 limit out of uk before questions can be asked.

"Nope its £1000 limit before questions "can be asked". Note the emphasis. Doesn't mean to say you have a problem per se but you "can" be asked to produce evidence (atm receipts) that the hard cash is lawfully in your possession. In practice few have problems or have had including me !!

Watch any of the Customs and Excise programmes on pick tv. Like yourself most are unaware. Now the same £1,000 limit applies to walking around money in the uk. I should know because I probably hold the record of having £1,012 detained and subsequently confiscated because couldn't prove origin.

The 10,000 Euro limit is declaration level. If you're stopped on final gate without declaration its almost certainly detained pending further investigation. again doesn't mean you lose it per se but proof of origin will be sought.

Trust me once you have lost £1,012 you tend to know the law !!

The chances of being sniffed by a money dog on final gate at Heathrow are remote but I have been stopped 3 times for routine checks since the law was introduced by Officers. Give answers of won it on the dogs or at the bookies and without question you'll fly without it !! Thats just the answers they want !! "

So where did you get it, that you could not give an answer acceptable to them?

[fey]

i have not paid any atm fees for years at any bank i choose and its a completely free account with debit card and no minimums.

you could open such an account online in the time it takes to read this thread.

why dont you do that instead of complaining? good question.

[Langsuan Man]

i have not paid any atm fees for years at any bank i choose and its a completely free account with debit card and no minimums.

you could open such an account online in the time it takes to read this thread.

why dont you do that instead of complaining? good question.

Back up this miracle with details please

[fekman]

I think its crazy the fees went from 150 to 180 to 200 in 18 months! Thats a 33% rise in 1.5 years, and we just came out of a deflationary period here. If anything, fees should have went down.

.

Also, how is it that ALL banks maintain the same fee, and rise in tandem?? Isn't there a price fixing law here?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Yes there is... when it comes to the banks, if they don't price fix together, they get sent back for "attitude adjustment."

On a more practical note, visited an AEON ATM today to just do a smaller cash top-up before the end of the month, not needing the full 30K or close to it from TMB, Ayudhya, etc.

For my U.S. MC debit card, AEON's fee -- at least as of today -- was still 150 baht. Best deal in town if you only need 20K or less.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So, the recap of things re foreign ATM card withdrawals, based on the various posts here, appears to be as follows:

200 baht ATM fee chargers:

Bangkok Bank

Govt Savings Bank

Kasikorn

Krungsri-Ayudhya (larger max withdrawal 30K)

KrungThai

180 baht fee charger:

Thai Military Bank (TMB), (larger max withdrawal 30K) though likely to go to 200b any time now

150 baht fee charger:

AEON (max withdrawal 20K)

There are a few other banks not mentioned here thus far, including CIMB, which also has the larger max 30K withdrawal. But I suspect they're all going to end up at 200 baht per withdrawal fairly soon -- with the possible exception of AEON, which isn't directly a part of the Thai banks cabal.