The Multiple Entry Tourist Visa Topic (METV)

[scubascuba3]

I was denied on a brand new METV from the UK. I provided all the documentation required (proof of funds, UK employment, return flight, hotel booking). This was not even considered by Suwannaphum immigration. I was swiftly denied entry with no discussion.
 
METV's are now fair game for denial. Use a land entry.

What was your history though? I've only heard of one case, you. Maybe others?

[elviajero]

44 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

56 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

I was denied on a brand new METV from the UK. I provided all the documentation required (proof of funds, UK employment, return flight, hotel booking). This was not even considered by Suwannaphum immigration. I was swiftly denied entry with no discussion.
 
METV's are now fair game for denial. Use a land entry.

What was your history though? I've only heard of one case, you. Maybe others?

Back to back METV’s used to live in the country.

[Briggsy]

43 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Back to back METV’s used to live in the country.

Are you acting as my spokesperson? If so, your statement is not correct.

[BritTim]

46 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Back to back METV’s used to live in the country.

No doubt something like that. Of course, in order to get the METV in the UK, he would have needed to be out of the country for at least a week or so. More accurately, he had spent more time in Thailand than the IO supervisor on duty deemed appropriate. Immigration officials, these days, have the green light to overrule the decisions of consul generals of embassies.

Edited June 7, 2019 by BritTim

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

No doubt something like that. Of course, in order to get the METV in the UK, he would have needed to be out of the country for at least a week or so. More accurately, he had spent more time in Thailand than the IO supervisor on duty deemed appropriate. Immigration officials, these days, have the green light to overrule the decisions of consul generals of embassies.

These days and all days before; having a visa does not guarantee entry as that decision is, and has always been, down to the IO. So nothing had been overruled.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Are you acting as my spokesperson? If so, your statement is not correct.

Which part is wrong? 

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Are you acting as my spokesperson? If so, your statement is not correct.

So what is your history, could be useful to others.

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

These days and all days before; having a visa does not guarantee entry as that decision is, and has always been, down to the IO. So nothing had been overruled.

In the past, with the exception of the Minister, immigration officials were only supposed to deny entry according to the (real) reasons specified in Section 12 of the Immigration Act. Anyone reading the Act with an open mind can see that the intention was to make decisions on allowing or denying entry as clearcut as possible, leaving no scope for officials to arbitrarily deny (or allow) entry. Thai law is not like the law of most countries where immigration officials have wide discretion. When the consul general decides you have met the requirements for a tourist visa, signing it, and the immigration official says "no, you are not a genuine tourist" how is this not overruling the consul's decision?

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

In the past, with the exception of the Minister, immigration officials were only supposed to deny entry according to the (real) reasons specified in Section 12 of the Immigration Act.

 

Can you show me one report of someone being denied entry for a reason other than section 12 or section 16 or regulation.

 

Quote

Anyone reading the Act with an open mind can see that the intention was to make decisions on allowing or denying entry as clearcut as possible, leaving no scope for officials to arbitrarily deny (or allow) entry.

Section 16 makes you wrong.

 

Official memos to foreign consuls and directives issued to IO's make you wrong.

 

Quote

Thai law is not like the law of most countries where immigration officials have wide discretion.

Can you quote me the section of the UK immigration act that gives the border force "wide discretion"?

 

Thai immigration law has set reasons for denying entry and then section 16 which gives them power - if necessary - via the MoI; discretionary or otherwise.

 

Quote

When the consul general decides you have met the requirements for a tourist visa, signing it, and the immigration official says "no, you are not a genuine tourist" how is this not overruling the consul's decision?

Because it's the IO's job to decide, with powers given to them by the IC/IB/MoI.

 

There is still a disconnect between immigration who police the border and consulates that make money from issuing visas. Some consulates exists purely to make money from visa sales, and will sell to anyone that can provide the paperwork required to satisfy any oversight.

Edited June 7, 2019 by elviajero

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

Can you show me one report of someone being denied entry for a reason other than section 12 ....

Our disagreement over the intention of Section 12 (3) is never going to be resolved. It is your belief that the Section is intended to give immigration officials full discretion to deny entry to anyone by simply claiming that they do not think it appropriate for the individual to be in the country. I think that is an absurd interpretation of that reason for denied entry. Section 12 (3) was probably intended to be a little broader than just proof of sufficient finance, but no way was it a grant of unlimited power to immigration officials. Indeed, I think the assumption that it does would make Section 16 superfluous.

 

I am also unconvinced by your stated belief that there are secret orders to immigration officials at certain entry points to abrogate visas. I see no reason why such orders would be either kept secret or only apply to certain crossing points. Immigration, quite reasonably, does have the responsibility to decide if people should be granted visa exempt entry (and the fact that they have this discretion was made public with advanced notice, albeit the announcements are harder to find now than five years ago). It does not follow that they are empowered to override the decisions of embassies/consulates on whether someone qualifies for a visa. If visas are being improperly issued, that is a matter for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to deal with, not the Immigration Bureau by a refusal to recognise properly issued visas.

 

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

  

Quote

Anyone reading the Act with an open mind can see that the intention was to make decisions on allowing or denying entry as clearcut as possible, leaving no scope for officials to arbitrarily deny (or allow) entry.

Section 16 makes you wrong.

This is what Section 16 states:

Quote

Section 16

In the instance where for reason of national welfare or safeguarding the public peace, culture, morality, or welfare, or when the Minister considers it improper to allow any alien or any group of alien to enter into the Kingdom, the Minister shall have power to exclude said alien or group aliens from entering into the Kingdom.

I simply do not agree with you that Minister in the Section is intended to mean any immigration official. Certainly, the Minister could issue an order that tourist entries be limited to 180 days in any calendar year (or similar). It would be totally against the spirit of the Act for the Minister to give a secret order that any immigration official has total discretion to arbitrarily deny entry to anyone they decide should not have been issued a visa.

 

... meanwhile,

 

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Can you quote me the section of the UK immigration act that gives the border force "wide discretion"?

(Immigration Act of 1971 as amended)

Quote

4Administration of control.

(1)The power under this Act to give or refuse leave to enter the United Kingdom shall be exercised by immigration officers, and the power to give leave to remain in the United Kingdom, or to vary any leave under section 3(3)(a) (whether as regards duration or conditions) [F30or to cancel any leave under section 3C(3A)] , shall be exercised by the Secretary of State; and, unless otherwise [F31allowed by or under] this Act, those powers shall be exercised by notice in writing given to the person affected, except that the powers under section 3(3)(a) may be exercised generally in respect of any class of persons by order made by statutory instrument.

The UK Immigration Act is heavy reading, but gives immigration officials wide power to limit entry. After entry, it gives them little to no power to decide if someone should be deported. That becomes a matter for the Secretary of State alone.

[sampson]

On 6/7/2019 at 1:18 AM, BritTim said:

For safety, entering by land might be best.

 

Yes, any tourist entry can be extended for 30 days. Your visa, and its expiry date, has no effect on the extension of your permission to stay.

Thanks, I will look to fly to Penang and bus it over then.  I suppose two wasted days is tolerable if it gives me the best chance of getting in for 60-70

 

 

[JamieLambo]

On 6/7/2019 at 1:18 AM, BritTim said:

For safety, entering by land might be best.

 

Yes, any tourist entry can be extended for 30 days. Your visa, and its expiry date, has no effect on the extension of your permission to stay.

with the METV, theres no restrictions for the amount of extensions you can do right? i've done extensions before no problem (on visa exempt stamps and the old double/triple entry visas), but not on the METV before, only asking because when i read on the consulate website earlier it states...

Quote

There is no restriction on the number of times you can enter whilst the visa remains valid. With careful planning, by saving the 30-day extension for your final entry, it is possible to get an accumulation of almost 9 months in Thailand. If you make your final entry into Thailand a couple of days before the ENTER BEFORE date as shown on the visa you should be granted your final 60-day stay and then you could visit a Thai Immigration Office near to where you are staying in Thailand on about day 55 of your 60-day stay and request the 30-day extension.

thanks

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, JamieLambo said:

with the METV, theres no restrictions for the amount of extensions you can do right? i've done extensions before no problem (on visa exempt stamps and the old double/triple entry visas), but not on the METV before, only asking because when i read on the consulate website earlier it states...

No restrictions. You are allowed one 30-day extension of each entry on an METV. As is so often the case with information on Thai consulate websites, that advice you quoted is erroneous.

Of course, depending on where you are staying, a border bounce for a fresh 60-day entry may make more sense than a 1,900 baht 30-day extension, but the extension is definitely permitted.

[JamieLambo]

On 6/9/2019 at 2:22 PM, BritTim said:

No restrictions. You are allowed one 30-day extension of each entry on an METV. As is so often the case with information on Thai consulate websites, that advice you quoted is erroneous.

Of course, depending on where you are staying, a border bounce for a fresh 60-day entry may make more sense than a 1,900 baht 30-day extension, but the extension is definitely permitted.

as i thought

thanks for clearing that up Tim ????

[kmw]

Hey all, just wondering is the 30 day extension on the metv multi entry? 

 

So basically I entered on a few days prior to the valid until date to get 8 months in total then will get a 30 day extension to make this 9 months in total, so wondering does the "powers" of the metv being multi entry flow into the additional days?

 

I thank you in advance 

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, kmw said:

So basically I entered on a few days prior to the valid until date to get 8 months in total then will get a 30 day extension to make this 9 months in total,

You can do that without a problem.

[jacko45k]

26 minutes ago, kmw said:

Hey all, just wondering is the 30 day extension on the metv multi entry? 

 

So basically I entered on a few days prior to the valid until date to get 8 months in total then will get a 30 day extension to make this 9 months in total, so wondering does the "powers" of the metv being multi entry flow into the additional days?

 

I thank you in advance 

I expect during the 30 additional days the METV will have already expired. 

So nothing flows into those additional days. 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, kmw said:

Hey all, just wondering is the 30 day extension on the metv multi entry? 

 

So basically I entered on a few days prior to the valid until date to get 8 months in total then will get a 30 day extension to make this 9 months in total, so wondering does the "powers" of the metv being multi entry flow into the additional days?

 

I thank you in advance 

No.

 

If you want to travel during that last 90 days you can, but you will need to buy a Re-entry Permit if you want to keep any remaining permission to stay alive. Single trip 1,000 baht. Multiple 3,800 baht.

[kmw]

Ah thanks for the clarification, i guessed that was the case, so the Multi entry is only valid up until the actual visa expires, 

 

The reason for me asking was last year after I did 9 months on the metv including a 30 day extension, I then obtained a 90 day medical extension, and that itself was multi entry, as I flew back to Sydney a few times and the IOs stamped me in based on the medical, so I thought the metv "powers" flowed into the 30 days and then into the 90 day medical, but from what you guys have said, I think the 90day medical was a totally different visa that had multi entry on it,

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, kmw said:

I think the 90day medical was a totally different visa that had multi entry on it,

The 90 day extension did not have a allowance for you to get multiple entries. You also had a re-entry permit that was applied for separately with a fee of 1000 baht for a single and 3800 baht for a multiple.

[kmw]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The 90 day extension did not have a allowance for you to get multiple entries. You also had a re-entry permit that was applied for separately with a fee of 1000 baht for a single and 3800 baht for a multiple.

Yes I think your correct, I paid 5000thb for the 90 day medical via Bangkok hospital, that had multi entry on it

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, kmw said:

Yes I think your correct, I paid 5000thb for the 90 day medical via Bangkok hospital, that had multi entry on it

I think the price would have been 5,700 baht (1,900 baht for the extension and 3,800 baht for a multiple reentry permit)..

[kmw]

Just checked my bill from last year, it was total 870,000 thb total and the visa charges was 6000 but they had some anniversary discount of 16% so came to 5040 for the medical extension, 

 

I'm a regular at Bangkok hospital and they seem to have a ongoing rolling discount, currently it's 10% here in Chiang Mai 

[themorrow]

Hello!

 

Total noob here… been reading the forums for a while now!

 

I am visiting Thailand from Canada on a 6 month METV. I think I have a good understanding about my Visa but I am seeking some expert clarification - any advice is appreciated! ;) My apologies if this has all been done to death.

 

 

1. I understand that every 60 days I have to exit the country and re-enter, but I can leave earlier if I wish to, and the 60 day counter will just start again when I re-enter.

 

- when I re-enter Thailand during these 6 months, do I have to pay any fees?

 

 

 

2. A few days before my 6 months are up, I can re-enter and that will give me a new 60 days (essentially giving me 8 months). A few days before my final 60 days are up I can do 1 extension for an additional 30 days - now giving me 9 months.

 

Two questions here:

- the fee for this extension is 1900 baht I believe?

- Is there any chance they wouldn’t let me stay 8-9 months? Only asking because I don’t want to be out $$ if I pre-pay for an accommodation and then I’m not allowed back in.

 

 

 

3. For these border runs/extension is there a preferred method/entry point to do these at - ie. land vs. air? (I’m in Chiang Mai)

 

 

Thank you so much!

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, themorrow said:

when I re-enter Thailand during these 6 months, do I have to pay any fees?

No.

 

1 hour ago, themorrow said:

the fee for this extension is 1900 baht I believe?

Correct.

 

1 hour ago, themorrow said:

- Is there any chance they wouldn’t let me stay 8-9 months? Only asking because I don’t want to be out $$ if I pre-pay for an accommodation and then I’m not allowed back in.

Extensions are not guaranteed, but there is no reason — as long as you can provide the required documents etc — that it won’t be issued.

 

1 hour ago, themorrow said:

For these border runs/extension is there a preferred method/entry point to do these at - ie. land vs. air? (I’m in Chiang Mai)

You can use the land border crossings in the north. Mae Sai is a good choice.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, themorrow said:

- Is there any chance they wouldn’t let me stay 8-9 months? Only asking because I don’t want to be out $$ if I pre-pay for an accommodation and then I’m not allowed back in.

As long as you are using (most) land crossings for the reentries after being in Thailand some months, there should be little risk. This must be qualified by a warning that nothing is ever certain where Thai immigration is concerned. Although unlikely, a sudden, unannounced change in immigration policy could lead to a denied entry at border crossings that have been 100% safe in the past.

[themorrow]

thanks very much for the help! a few follow up questions...

 

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

Extensions are not guaranteed, but there is no reason — as long as you can provide the required documents etc — that it won’t be issued.

 

what documents will I need? When I first landed in Thailand I expected to be grilled but all they asked for was my passport (with the METV in it)...

 

 

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

As long as you are using (most) land crossings for the reentries after being in Thailand some months, there should be little risk. This must be qualified by a warning that nothing is ever certain where Thai immigration is concerned. Although unlikely, a sudden, unannounced change in immigration policy could lead to a denied entry at border crossings that have been 100% safe in the past.

can I not fly back into Thailand? Am I supposed to just stay in Thailand for 6 straight months doing border runs every 60 days? Asking because I was thinking of going to Kuala Lumpur for a few days at the end of this month (at this point I've been in Thailand for 5 weeks). Ideally I'd like to stay "based" in Thailand but do short trips every month or so...

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by themorrow

[PingRoundTheWorld]

On 6/7/2019 at 11:16 AM, Briggsy said:

I was denied on a brand new METV from the UK. I provided all the documentation required (proof of funds, UK employment, return flight, hotel booking). This was not even considered by Suwannaphum immigration. I was swiftly denied entry with no discussion.

What is your recent stay history? How long? Also- was this with a new passport with relatively few Thailand stamps, or one with lots of stamps from previous visa runs? I could be wrong, but my guess is they scrutinize more if they see a passport full of entry stamps and/or extensions and/or visas. To that end a METV helps as it minimizes stamps and visas.

 

So far I haven't had problems entering on METV (on my 2nd one now), but my passport is relatively "clean".

[scubascuba3]

What is your recent stay history? How long? Also- was this with a new passport with relatively few Thailand stamps, or one with lots of stamps from previous visa runs? I could be wrong, but my guess is they scrutinize more if they see a passport full of entry stamps and/or extensions and/or visas. To that end a METV helps as it minimizes stamps and visas.
 
So far I haven't had problems entering on METV (on my 2nd one now), but my passport is relatively "clean".

The important point which rarely gets mentioned is its 6 months from when you apply for the visa, not when you first enter thailand, so don't get it early

[PingRoundTheWorld]

1 hour ago, themorrow said:

can I not fly back into Thailand? Am I supposed to just stay in Thailand for 6 straight months doing border runs every 60 days? Asking because I was thinking of going to Kuala Lumpur for a few days at the end of this month (at this point I've been in Thailand for 5 weeks). Ideally I'd like to stay "based" in Thailand but do short trips every month or so...

If this is your first METV and you've never stayed in Thailand before then you will have zero problems. Don't let this forum scare you, the people who have problems on re-entry are usually pushing the system for years and eventually run into an immigration officer on a bad day. Just avoid common mistakes and very unlikely you will be denied entry at airports OTHER THAN DMK - avoid DMK.

 

By common mistakes I mean things like same-day or 1-day visa run by air - ideally you should leave the country for at least a few days between entries as that helps show that you are a genuine tourist and not working in Thailand. And of course - DON'T work in Thailand, lol.