What would you advise the bunch of long stayers who became full of cynicism?

[smotherb]

Some people are not happy unless they are complaining. I stay away from them as I have always been happier here than the place I lived before I came here. My question to the cynical is, "If you are not happy why are you here?"

Exactly, but as discussed in several other forums, most have buried themselves here, burned the bridges behind them, and have not planned well for their present or future. They are mired in the quicksand that is Thailand; the love/hate relationship and the oldest dilemma, they have no place else to go--except to bitch and moan on TV.

[huawei]

Immerse yourself in society. Learn Thai, make Thai friends, read about Thai history and do your best to understand the culture.

Having done the first, many through work for the second ( but more as acquaintances ) , almost none for the third, the fourth is the most difficult...the conclusion is that western culture is far superior ..you can become more cynical..as you understand more, especially when dealing with the institutions, business practices , schools, the courts, the disparity between rich and poor etc..plus there seems this overriding assumption that Thais are happy with their lot as by some unique process cynicism stops at the borders - wrong in my experience..

I have immersed myself for many years ( in my youth) now I am completely un - immersed (!) as far as possible..and happier for it.

Thais are nice people overall, the country has a lot to recommend it, but overtime it has as with anywhere else deteriorated and you see and understand how things are when confronted directly by them. These things you can't avoid if you have lived a significant part of your life here.

Not cyclical , just realistic..

Why give a s..t what other people think , isn't that why you come here in the first place! But alas you can't change who you are regardless of the country you are in that I have learnt...I am a foreigner and very glad I am, the only thing you can do is recognise maybe some of the good characteristics and try to absorb them.

The biggest lesson don't be poor here..and whatever problems you bought with you stay with you even if you are thousands of miles from home..Thailand is no panacea..

[Borneo Baron]

Go home

[onni4me]

All together Thailand is still a great crazy place full of pleasure and adventure, food, massage, uncomplicated people, business challenges...

Could you somehow enhance us what you mean by adventure? I have been here quite a long time and not sure whether I would enjoy any kind of "adventure" Thai companies have to offer. I was once asking specifically if the tour around the islands was easy access since we had a person amongst us that was not bale to walk very well. Yes, they said, and then we found out that all transport between the cruise ship and island was to be done by a banana boat...

I have no clue what adventure you prefer to but a jungle trekking or staying in a tent with a zillion mosquitoes does not tempt me. I like comfort and am willing to pay for it.

Food? I cook myself mostly since I can prepare better food than 99% I see offered to people. If I have eaten well here it was in some place where a nice big juicy steak costed me around 3000 Baht. It was good but since I am not a millionaire I can get something similar done by myself. And my partner used to cook in an Italian restaurant so we both enjoy quality food. I hate MSG and the tacky taste of frying oil gone bad. In my experience street food is uneatable.

Massage? I have only had one guy that knew what he was doing. Unfortunately, I moved so I lost contact with him. There's been masseurs that made me hurt more than dealt with the issue. And no, I am not talking about "happy ending". I have problems with my spine and want only really good people to approach me with intentions of muscle manipulation. If you speak about sex massage, i have no idea because I see it as something seedy and not really my thing.

Uncomplicated people? Where? Yes, I normally get my things done but it involves more talking and agreeing than it would in Europe. Normally, it is very difficult to get things done EXACTLY the way one wants and that is far from uncomplicated.

Business challenges? Yep, that is spot on...so much that I have given up totally doing any kind of business in this country. Logistics costs more than Europe and everything is riddled with corruption. I get better money from outside with less hassle and no need to pay "tea money". I would advice anyone who has never done business before to avoid starting in Thailand and this advice is free.

So, can you emphasize on your experiences or is this just an attack on those who you seem as pessimists or complainers? There is also an alternative, they might be realistic...

I, myself am happy, but that is just due to the fact that happened to run into a good Thai partner and visit rarely on any Farang establishments. Next month we have a lovely cruise with Thai friends. I am the only white guy on board. They invited me. I wonder has this happened to you? And no, I am not the guy paying the bill...just my part of it.

[huawei]

Reminds me of a couple I met a few years ago. They were in the 30 year old range and had been here for about a year and a half. They said that they loved Thailand but were going home.

I asked them why and they said that they loved Thailand and the people but many of the foreigners were so negative that they were starting to get to be like them and Thailand is to beautiful to look at that way. So before they became as miserable as those people they were leaving.

I have met some I honestly think no body wants them back where they come from. Foreigners going off of balconies does not surprise me. They feel like there is no place for them to go.

I sometimes "pine" for the time when foreigners were much friendlier to each other, not trying to compete and just happy to be here.

This misery thing is relatively recent..as are the balcony jumps..

[smotherb]

I have been here 15 years. I came to teach Business Management on the MBA Course to senior Thai executives. I also met my Thai wife and we got married 13 years ago. I used to laugh at the crazy things that happened with Thai people, but now they get on my nerves all the time. I used to laugh at the corruption, at the many bad spellings everywhere, even on police, government and high class businesses.

My skepticism changed to cynicism when my university in Bangkok in the April just allocated all my courses to Thai professors, even though each course was listed out to June 30th on my contract. I saw a lawyer who said I could sue them but it would take a long time and a lot of money, certainly more than the 220,000 baht I lost.

Although a fighting fit man and boy, I then was hit with 5 major operations which swallowed all my reserve money and most of my daily account. A replacement knee operation went wrong 4 times and insurance only paid for the first. Then my insurance stopped as I was over 70! So all of the last 5 ops I have had to fund myself.

My English pension keeps us with an ok life, but the luxury life we had has gone. Now I am a 76 year old cynic, who has changed from a fully active life to a horrid life of eating , which has got so boring, sleeping badly, and going for a swim 2-3 times a week.

And all this time things here in Thailand and Pattaya have got worse and worse and more expensive, on a fixed pension. I have no insurance and panic every time I go out with the crass stupidity of the majority of drivers. A crash would take every last penny I have.

I cannot and do not want to get out and go back to England because my Thai wife would never be able to cope with that life. She is a basic country girl, but we love each other. She would have no friends, doesn't like our food very much, and no hobbies other than watching Thai TV.

So I am an old cynic who has no idea what to do for the next 10-20 years. Thailand is not the Thailand of 15 years ago, and every day there are more stupid things imposed on us. Help please.............

At 76, face facts, it may not be so bad, you may not have 10-20 years left. Look at the best part, you have your present and the love of your wife.

[nithisa78]

They were full of cynicism when they arrived in Thailand. Life is a growth process, body, mind and spirit.

Go to the Temple or any house of worship and surrender to the Lord of your understanding. Stay with it, because when you are sincere, it will happen.

The good life isn't for the faint of heart. We are spiritual beings on a temporary journey as humans. Make the best of it. Fear not.

[Prof3934]

I wish all the time that I could go home, but I am married to a Thai girl who could not survive England. I am a semi-invalid, 76 years old, and would die if I had to leave her after 13 years of marriage. So comments like "go home" are so crass. We have enough money to live on, but now from being 100% active to being almost totally inactive is just existence and not living.

[MaeJoMTB]

Some people are not happy unless they are complaining. I stay away from them as I have always been happier here than the place I lived before I came here. My question to the cynical is, "If you are not happy why are you here?"

Exactly, but as discussed in several other forums, most have buried themselves here, burned the bridges behind them, and have not planned well for their present or future. They are mired in the quicksand that is Thailand; the love/hate relationship and the oldest dilemma, they have no place else to go--except to bitch and moan on TV.

Most old people in the west end their days on benefits, deciding whether to heat or eat.

The people out here are mostly the ones who did plan ahead.

Not that many working class people have any options in their life apart from survival.

And that's 95% of the western population.

[BigT73]

I wish all the time that I could go home, but I am married to a Thai girl who could not survive England. I am a semi-invalid, 76 years old, and would die if I had to leave her after 13 years of marriage. So comments like "go home" are so crass. We have enough money to live on, but now from being 100% active to being almost totally inactive is just existence and not living.

Most of the comments were directed at the OP not at yourself. With your skills im sure you could imerse yourself with something online or learn a new skill? Your never too old to learn

[vukovar77]

All these folks which always grumble we should only avoid!!!

Grouch humans will never be happy and they can only make our life miserable!!!

We should immerse with this wonderful country,amazing people with long history of glory and freedom!!!

If this grouch foreigners do not want or know how to socialize ,it is best option for all of us if they go away!!!

[flyDelight]

I think the biggest problem with most of the expats living in Thailand is quite simply that they don't do anything! I couldn't face a life of staying in a condo all day watching TV or being on the internet.( it would drive me nuts....) Thailand offers a great " outdoor life " of walking,beaches,exploring,photography and some parts even perfect for Bike Rides too! So rather than spend all day enclosed in a room with the air con switched on max,get out there and " enjoy life " or you might as well go back to europe and live in a static caravan!

F.J x

Exactly that's the trick, don't become switched off. Mind training is important but even more when living in Thailand, don't become like them.

[MaeJoMTB]

So I am an old cynic who has no idea what to do for the next 10-20 years. Thailand is not the Thailand of 15 years ago, and every day there are more stupid things imposed on us. Help please.............

At 76, face facts, it may not be so bad, you may not have 10-20 years left. Look at the best part, you have your present and the love of your wife.

I'm always surprised at the unrealistic life expectancy many older people have.

At age 60, I'd be happy with another 5 years.

And I don't know anyone over 70 with I life, I would consider, worth living.

[onni4me]

They were full of cynicism when they arrived in Thailand. Life is a growth process, body, mind and spirit.

Go to the Temple or any house of worship and surrender to the Lord of your understanding. Stay with it, because when you are sincere, it will happen.

The good life isn't for the faint of heart. We are spiritual beings on a temporary journey as humans. Make the best of it. Fear not.

Yeah, that will solve all my daily business and other problems...I'll just walk to a temple amd surrender myself to the Lord...

That would be fine by me but my family would certainly suffer. No food on table and bills unpaid and other things not done.

This kind of religious BS in something I frown upon...and for many good reasons.

[Shadychris]

I wish all the time that I could go home, but I am married to a Thai girl who could not survive England. I am a semi-invalid, 76 years old, and would die if I had to leave her after 13 years of marriage. So comments like "go home" are so crass. We have enough money to live on, but now from being 100% active to being almost totally inactive is just existence and not living.

I find this hard to understand... I would not advise you to go home. If you have problems with your joints the cold damp winters of your home country will just make your situation worse. Similarly I fail to see how your situation of going from being 100% active to almost totally inactive is going to magically change by moving back home. So why do you wish all the time that you could go back home??

[bannork]

I wish all the time that I could go home, but I am married to a Thai girl who could not survive England. I am a semi-invalid, 76 years old, and would die if I had to leave her after 13 years of marriage. So comments like "go home" are so crass. We have enough money to live on, but now from being 100% active to being almost totally inactive is just existence and not living.

Most of the comments were directed at the OP not at yourself. With your skills im sure you could imerse yourself with something online or learn a new skill? Your never too old to learn

Prof,where does your wife come from? Surely her hometown is not Pattaya? At your age you should be living in a nice place in the country, enjoying the simple pleasures of birds singing in the morning.There's nothing to beat nature, especially when we know we are in our sunset years...,we're going back to where we came from, It's comforting with contentment and dignity.... and the internet connections are as good as Bangkok.!

[fang37]

I wouldn't advise them to do anything. It's their life - not mine.

[fekman]

I've traveled to 72 countries in 9 years of nonstop traveling. Most countries I stay one month to a year. Shitty Western countries I bounce in and out in a few days. I've been in KT the longest, about 17 months, with visa hops to nearby countries. Most countries I dislike for the first couple weeks, then I like it, then I start to dislike it again after 9+ months or so. In general, I like it here.

Pros

Good, cheap food

Good cheap public transportation

Not dangerous

History

Weather

Corruption, can get you out of problems that would be certain prison in other countries

Cons

Bad English

Average looking girls

Guys hate us bc we take the cutest Thai girls.

Girls that cant have us, hate us

Older population hates us, unless we are buying their product

Shitty, sweet Asian beer

Now, visa issues

[taony]

Thailand is great. Except for when you need to do something.

[meom]

They were full of cynicism when they arrived in Thailand. Life is a growth process, body, mind and spirit.

Go to the Temple or any house of worship and surrender to the Lord of your understanding. Stay with it, because when you are sincere, it will happen.

The good life isn't for the faint of heart. We are spiritual beings on a temporary journey as humans. Make the best of it. Fear not.

Yeah, that will solve all my daily business and other problems...I'll just walk to a temple amd surrender myself to the Lord...

That would be fine by me but my family would certainly suffer. No food on table and bills unpaid and other things not done.

This kind of religious BS in something I frown upon...and for many good reasons.

LOL.

It doesn't have to be a temple.

Any house will do.

Crazy house Soi 23 suits me fine.

[onni4me]

Pros

History

This 'History' keeps popping up every now and then...would someone enlighten me what I have missed here?

Reading about Thailand's history, it is full of power struggles and land disputes...war...slavery...much everything that Buddhism does not consider as good things.

When it comes to historical sites much would be needed to restore them to same level we can experience in Europe. Not to mention lack of art museums, well maintained artifact exhibitions and so on. And on top of that most "historical" buildings have been remade from concrete their murals painted with acrylic paints...

Best idea I got reading some old Thai poetry from a book series by UNESCO and that was not much. It was nice and touching but one of the few rare moments that I got anything new from this so called culture. And asking an average Thai is far from helpful...they simply have no idea.

So, I really would like to know what about this so called 'History' here?

[Shadychris]

I've traveled to 72 countries in 9 years of nonstop traveling. Most countries I stay one month to a year. Shitty Western countries I bounce in and out in a few days. I've been in KT the longest, about 17 months, with visa hops to nearby countries. Most countries I dislike for the first couple weeks, then I like it, then I start to dislike it again after 9+ months or so. In general, I like it here.

Pros

Good, cheap food

Good cheap public transportation

Not dangerous

History

Weather

Corruption, can get you out of problems that would be certain prison in other countries

Cons

Bad English

Average looking girls

Guys hate us bc we take the cutest Thai girls.

Girls that cant have us, hate us

Older population hates us, unless we are buying their product

Shitty, sweet Asian beer

Now, visa issues

Hmmmn so 72 countries in 108 months of travelling..

Yet you say in 'most' of those countries after 9+ months you dislike them. So even being generous and equating 'most' at just 75% of them, that's 54 countries you have spent 9+ months in - a total of 486+ months...

Interested to know how you managed to squeeze 486+ months of visits into just 108 months of travel?? Or are you just talking BS?

[Nowisee]

I don't get the OP... why the post?

I can say with certainty that I don't love it. I don't hate it either. I can live here for now, but I am exploring other options. It's just not that exciting to me.
It's easy to live here, but it's a dead end in my opinion. Fun at times, but there are much more fun places in this world and some very close by.

Thaivisa is a place you should not frequent if you are not enjoying thailand, it will bring you down.

Getting out of here throughout the year is mandatory therapy. Good to see other places and I like going back to my home country... the people there are AFU but the mountains, beaches, countryside, beer and food is way better than here.

Chiang Mai immigration is completely dysfunctional...the worst and may be the reason I leave Thailand altogether (If I am happy in Vietnam I will certainly come back to CM and that immigration), certainly why I may leave CM.

The thai street food has become boring to me (although there are a few great places on Suthep) and I am finding adventure in seeking out other culture foods and making my own at home.

If chillin out is your thing, this can be the place. Often I find I need more to do with my life than this place offers... then I get lazy and just chill...5555

A motorcycle ride into the mountains and a road trip to Chiang Rai is my usual therapy.

[ggt]

Be patient...bide your time...soon it will get worse...

[MaeJoMTB]

This 'History' keeps popping up every now and then...would someone enlighten me what I have missed here?

Reading about Thailand's history, it is full of power struggles and land disputes...war...slavery...much everything that Buddhism does not consider as good things.

Not sure that you can read much real Thai history in Thailand.

What is published here tends to be an outright lie, and the books published abroad, reflecting reality, tend to come with a 5 year jail sentence. If you are caught in Thailand with one in your possession.

Edited November 20, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[smotherb]

Some people are not happy unless they are complaining. I stay away from them as I have always been happier here than the place I lived before I came here. My question to the cynical is, "If you are not happy why are you here?"

Exactly, but as discussed in several other forums, most have buried themselves here, burned the bridges behind them, and have not planned well for their present or future. They are mired in the quicksand that is Thailand; the love/hate relationship and the oldest dilemma, they have no place else to go--except to bitch and moan on TV.

Most old people in the west end their days on benefits, deciding whether to heat or eat.

The people out here are mostly the ones who did plan ahead.

Not that many working class people have any options in their life apart from survival.

And that's 95% of the western population.

Again, we seem to have opposite experiences. I am not from a wealthy family and most of my older family and friends come from humble backgrounds, but have a comfortable retirement. There are government, military and corporate retirees in the bunch, a few small business owners, and some skilled professionals, like me, who managed to invest and save. The vast majority of them still live in the West, mostly the USA. I do have several old expat friends who are living nearer the bottom of barrel, but they still have enough to eat and drink.

Whether or not most of the people out here did plan ahead, I think is debatable.

[onni4me]

Not sure that you can read much real Thai history in Thailand.

What is published here tends to be an outright lie, and the books published abroad, reflecting reality, tend to come with a 5 year jail sentence. If you are caught in Thailand with one in your possession.

Agreed.

Most books I've read are in English and banned here which deserves the question, can a country ever move forward when it has not made peace with it's past?

In my humble opinion the answer is: NO!

Reading a well known book from 1840's (content can't be discussed here) I noticed how little, if nothing, has changed in the Thai mentality...and those unchanged things keep dragging this country backwards.

[huawei]

Some people are not happy unless they are complaining. I stay away from them as I have always been happier here than the place I lived before I came here. My question to the cynical is, "If you are not happy why are you here?"

Exactly, but as discussed in several other forums, most have buried themselves here, burned the bridges behind them, and have not planned well for their present or future. They are mired in the quicksand that is Thailand; the love/hate relationship and the oldest dilemma, they have no place else to go--except to bitch and moan on TV.

Most old people in the west end their days on benefits, deciding whether to heat or eat.

The people out here are mostly the ones who did plan ahead.

Not that many working class people have any options in their life apart from survival.

And that's 95% of the western population.

Again, we seem to have opposite experiences. I am not from a wealthy family and most of my older family and friends come from humble backgrounds, but have a comfortable retirement. There are government, military and corporate retirees in the bunch, a few small business owners, and some skilled professionals, like me, who managed to invest and save. The vast majority of them still live in the West, mostly the USA. I do have several old expat friends who are living nearer the bottom of barrel, but they still have enough to eat and drink.

Whether or not most of the people out here did plan ahead, I think is debatable.

How can you plan when Thailand didn't really become a retirement destination until recently. So I would tend to agree.

[GOLDBUGGY]

There is 3 Golden Rules called the 3 C's which everyone should get to know when working and living Overseas.

They are:

1) Don't "Compare".

2) Don't "Criticize".

3) Don't "Complain".

I suppose you could add another "C" to this Golden Rule for people who can't follow the first 3 C Rules. It would be:

4) Don't "Come Here!"

[billd766]

I think that anyone with over ten thousand posts on this forum should be put down! These are the guys who clearly never leave their bar stools and go out and see what is actually happening in this great country.

I do hate people who generalise by saying stuff like you have posted.

Have you any idea just how many long term expats actually don't live on bar stools but live quite happily with their Thai wives and family? Do you know how many don't actually live anywhere near bar stools but live out of the cities and bar areas on farms and in villages all over Thailand?

Perhaps YOU are the one who needs to leave your bar stool and actually see what is happening in Thailand.

Of course some people who live in Thailand moan but far more of us don't.