What is going on with the ' winter ' in Thailand

[up2u2]

The Romans grew grapes and produced wine in Eastern England. Try doing that now. So global warming is not new!

Wow there , the biggest vineyard in England is or was when I left in Dorking between London and Brighton. North Downs and chalk just right for growing grapes.. Oh well back to Chang beer.

sent from PCX sidecar

You didn't happen to pick up a pitcher of Ancient Roman vintage wine on your travels northernphil. That would be a good drop surely?

[55Jay]

Yeah, well, all these granola eaters will feel pretty stupid when the Sun eventually blows up and vaporizes our little planet.

The religious people will look down at the empty spot in space and say rather smugly, "Told you so!"

[Ghostnigel]

I suggest you forward all your data and theories to NASA, NOAA, UKMet, Berkeley Earth, PSC, PIOMAS, RSS, NSIDC, IPCC and let them know you have worked all this Global Warming / Climate Change thing out and there is nothing to be concerned about. Well done Catoni. Amazing how they missed all that stuff. Well done. It was probably all a bit complicated for them to understand.

You're a funny guy. Did you notice that my figures ...0.85 degree C between 1880 - 2012... come from the I.P.C.C. itself ? ?

(IPCC, 2013: Summary for Policymakers. In: Climate Change 2013: The Physical Science Basis. Contribution of Working Group I to the Fifth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change [stocker, T.F., D. Qin, G.-K. Plattner, M. Tignor, S. K. Allen, J. Boschung, A. Nauels, Y. Xia, V. Bex and P.M. Midgley (eds.)]. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, United Kingdom and New York, NY, USA.)

They didn't miss what I've said.

They know it themselves.... as well as most people that bother to open up some books and study.

But I know where you are coming from, comrade... I used to be a leftist activist myself back in my college days. Used to help arrange demonstrations in big cities and at the Canadian/U.S. border... .with the "Peace" groups and dis-armament groups.... . associated with the "World Peace Council" and local activist cells.

And then I read Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Friedrich Hayek, Ludwig von Mises, Frederic Bastiat, Trotter, Hans-Hermann Hoppe, Milton Friedman and others....... and with age... I gained not just some knowledge from my studies... but also finally a bit of wisdom...

I'm lifelong student of many subjects... including History, Politics, Astronomy, Geology, and yes.. Paleoclimatology.

​ My library drives my wife crazy....I have a very wide range of interests. She says If I go before her.... all my books are going also.. after our kids choose which ones they want..

But please try not to throw insults and name calling here. The moderators don't like it... . okay ?

Excellent Catoni. You are obviously on top of the Global Warming / Climate Change and NASA, NOAA, UKMet, Berkeley Earth, PSC, PIOMAS, RSS, NSIDC, IPCC have missed some key points that you are completely researched on. Well done. No argument from me.

To sum up then, its hot...just like the op said...

[chiang mai]

These guys who swear blind that science and NASA et al are wrong and that global warming is not really global warming but business as usual, scare the cr ap out of me, I mean, they actually believe what they're telling people, how arrogant is that!

[up2u2]

To sum up then, its hot...just like the op said...

Yep. Hot and in drought conditions due to a record breaking El Nino assisted with a smidge of heat from Global Warming adding a little more extreme weather conditions.

There's the problem

[sandyf]

The Romans grew grapes and produced wine in Eastern England. Try doing that now. So global warming is not new!

Romans growing grapes has nothing to do with Global Warming.

Global Warming / Cooling over thousands of years is not at all unusual, over 50 to 100 years it certainly is.

I was brought up in the north east of Scotland and when I was at school we used to cycle out to the fruit farms and pick raspberries and strawberries for the princely sum of 1d per punnet. No fruit farms for a long time now, climate change closed them down.

[chiang mai]

Queue the poster who has a CSE Grade 2 in Woodwork who will come along and tell us that NASA and the entire scientific community is wrong on this point!

[kannot]

The weather patterns are gradually changing.

Questions is: Would the weather have changed by way of natural evolution or have we humans altered the weather patterns???

Either way the cool weather season has been arriving later in the year for the last several years.

Cheers

No!! the weather patterns are ALWAYS changing and always will change until one day there will be no weather and no planet

[kannot]

Queue the poster who has a CSE Grade 2 in Woodwork who will come along and tell us that NASA and the entire scientific community is wrong on this point!

Many "geniuses" are self taught

[up2u2]

The Romans grew grapes and produced wine in Eastern England. Try doing that now. So global warming is not new!

Romans growing grapes has nothing to do with Global Warming.

Global Warming / Cooling over thousands of years is not at all unusual, over 50 to 100 years it certainly is.

I was brought up in the north east of Scotland and when I was at school we used to cycle out to the fruit farms and pick raspberries and strawberries for the princely sum of 1d per punnet. No fruit farms for a long time now, climate change closed them down.

Doubt it. More to do with the 'princely sum of 1d'.

[mantu]

Read the same sort of short term observations year in year out....lowest low season ever, wettest hot season ever, coldest cold season ever.....all of these threads fail to back up their tunnel vision with any sort of stats.....

quite boring actually, but they all fall into the chicken little, sky is falling camp!

[willyumiii]

El Nino is particularly extreme this year due to Global Warming. Thailand forecast is droughts and heatwave conditions. Hot and getting hotter. Drought warning has already been issued for Thailand.

"the world is always in a constant change. Impermanence is permanence." Yes, over thousands of years climates gradually change. Not over 50 to 100 years. That would be unprecedented.

"More concrete, fewer trees?" No effect, unless someone has started concreting the Oceans.

"Or as you said, an outlyingly hot year." Yes it is going to be a hot year globally due to El Nino and Global Warming. Over the past 50 years the Earth has warmed by 1.7^OC by the end of this century it is expected to warm between 6-8^OC. Not many people will be living in Bangkok. It will have sunk by then.

"No effect, unless someone has started concreting the Oceans"

There is an ever growing, huge " island" of plastic garbage in the mid Pacific....

Is that better or worse than concrete?

[marquis22]

OK so you think deforestation has no effect and concrete manufacture doesn't release pollutants +CO 2, big statement, but up 2 u.

While deforestation has an effect, concrete manufacture is less polluting because cement re-absorbs carbon dioxide when mixed with water.

CaO + CO2 ---- CaCO3. Although you are correct overall when the Second Law of Thermodynamics is taken into account.

http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2012/05/09/emissions-from-the-cement-industry

Cement Emissions

The production of cement releases greenhouse gas emissions both directly and indirectly: the heating of limestone releases CO2 directly, while the burning of fossil fuels to heat the kiln indirectly results in CO2 emissions.

The direct emissions of cement occur through a chemical process called calcination. Calcination occurs when limestone, which is made of calcium carbonate, is heated, breaking down into calcium oxide and CO2. This process accounts for ~50% of all emissions from cement production.

Indirect emissions are produced by burning fossil fuels to heat the kiln. Kilns are usually heated by coal, natural gas, or oil, and the combustion of these fuels produces additional CO2 emissions, just as they would in producing electricity. This represents around 40% of cement emissions. Finally, the electricity used to power additional plant machinery, and the final transportation of cement, represents another source of indirect emissions and account for 5-10% of the industry’s emissions.

Getting back to the original topic of a warmer winter. I reckon Briggsy meant that the more concrete in the cities, withholds the heat from the hot sun and releases it slowly during the night, causing a warmer environment overall.

[mpyre]

El Nino is particularly extreme this year due to Global Warming. Thailand forecast is droughts and heatwave conditions. Hot and getting hotter. Drought warning has already been issued for Thailand.

"the world is always in a constant change. Impermanence is permanence." Yes, over thousands of years climates gradually change. Not over 50 to 100 years. That would be unprecedented.

"More concrete, fewer trees?" No effect, unless someone has started concreting the Oceans.

"Or as you said, an outlyingly hot year." Yes it is going to be a hot year globally due to El Nino and Global Warming. Over the past 50 years the Earth has warmed by 1.7^OC by the end of this century it is expected to warm between 6-8^OC. Not many people will be living in Bangkok. It will have sunk by then.

There are many historical instances of significant climate change in 50 years, especially when limited to particular regions...the various "mini-ice ages" in Northern Europe and North America, for example, between the 13th and 19th centuries...there have been many, many others.

[chiang mai]

Queue the poster who has a CSE Grade 2 in Woodwork who will come along and tell us that NASA and the entire scientific community is wrong on this point!

Many "geniuses" are self taught

Possibly, most I've come across however are delusional!

I enjoy a decent blag the same as the next man. But when faced with a man who has fourteen Phd's and has spent his entire life studying these things, at the request of various governments, and is now the head of climate research, (which employs a zillion people with only five Phd's each), to research the subject also, I wouldn't feel absolutely confident in saying to him, "er excuse me guv' but you're wrong", just because I had a feeling that he might be.

I mean, this is not exactly a , that colour is more lilac than purple issue, it has the potential to obliterate mankind and the planet. So for someone to stand up and state, "you're wrong" requires either supreme confidence (in which case let's all hear your arguments so that we can all sleep better) or, serious dysfunction in the front temporal lobe, (in which case, folks should quieten down and seek help)!

[Straight8]

Winter in Thailand is like summer in the south pole.

[chiang mai]

Temperature outside my front door this morning, 16 degrees, brrr!

[Berkshire]

Actually it isn't only in Thailand.

I read several articles the other day about it being the hottest October ever.

Here is one of them:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/hottest-october-on-record-is-bad-news-for-polar-bears-2015-11-19

Yes, it's getting warmer everywhere. Scientists the world over agrees. But there are still people in the USA (read Republicans) who don't believe in global warming. So perhaps this rising temperature thing is just a figment of our imagination.

[up2u2]

El Nino is particularly extreme this year due to Global Warming. Thailand forecast is droughts and heatwave conditions. Hot and getting hotter. Drought warning has already been issued for Thailand.

"the world is always in a constant change. Impermanence is permanence." Yes, over thousands of years climates gradually change. Not over 50 to 100 years. That would be unprecedented.

"More concrete, fewer trees?" No effect, unless someone has started concreting the Oceans.

"Or as you said, an outlyingly hot year." Yes it is going to be a hot year globally due to El Nino and Global Warming. Over the past 50 years the Earth has warmed by 1.7^OC by the end of this century it is expected to warm between 6-8^OC. Not many people will be living in Bangkok. It will have sunk by then.

There are many historical instances of significant climate change in 50 years, especially when limited to particular regions...the various "mini-ice ages" in Northern Europe and North America, for example, between the 13th and 19th centuries...there have been many, many others.

mpyre just extraordinary that the lead scientists at NASA, NOAA, UKMet, Berkeley Earth, PSC, PIOMAS, RSS, NSIDC, IPCC and the some 46,000 peer reviewed research Papers and articles confirming anthropogenic Global Warming published during 2013 & 2014 have overlooked the points you have made reversing all the science on anthropogenic Global Warming. You think they would have picked up on these basic facts. You think they would be more than knowledgeable on 'the many historical instances of significant climate changes over 50 years' and the 'various mini ice ages'. Have you contacted NASA with your information?

[movieplay]

see graph at 8.43

The entire US rural data set from 1890 shows cooling. That graph also shows the reality that the 1930s were the hottest decade ever(in recent times) before appox. 4 decades of cooling, and since 2003 where that graph ends , there has been record ice and cold and snow records broken, most likly due to a cold pdo and a weak solar cycle.

The NOAA is currently dodging yet another congressional subpoena which aims to determine how the NOAA arrives at its conclusions, after climategate where the IPCC promised more transparency as to how they come to their conclusions; that obviosly isn't happening. At this point NOAA, NASA GISS, IPCC graphs have to be taken with a grain of salt. These graphs that show warming are 'reconstructed' and 'adjusted'. and even then they only show minimal warming.

This video shows how the ipcc models and the co2 AGW theory have failed in only 12 minutes.

If last month was the hottest ever, its only the calm before the storm, even though this is an elnino year heavy snow came early again in north america and russia despite whats supposed to be a warm year, you will see how we get closer to 2020 every year will be colder.

UofHuntsville,Alabama satelite also shows cooling since appox 2000.. the mainstream media rarely uses the words 'global warming' any more.. now they refer to climate change which can mean anytype of climate change.

Edited November 23, 2015 by movieplay

[55Jay]

Queue the poster who has a CSE Grade 2 in Woodwork who will come along and tell us that NASA and the entire scientific community is wrong on this point!

Many "geniuses" are self taught

Possibly, most I've come across however are delusional!

I enjoy a decent blag the same as the next man. But when faced with a man who has fourteen Phd's and has spent his entire life studying these things, at the request of various governments, and is now the head of climate research, (which employs a zillion people with only five Phd's each), to research the subject also, I wouldn't feel absolutely confident in saying to him, "er excuse me guv' but you're wrong", just because I had a feeling that he might be.

I mean, this is not exactly a , that colour is more lilac than purple issue, it has the potential to obliterate mankind and the planet. So for someone to stand up and state, "you're wrong" requires either supreme confidence (in which case let's all hear your arguments so that we can all sleep better) or, serious dysfunction in the front temporal lobe, (in which case, folks should quieten down and seek help)!

In other words, "This guy's really really smart, so ya'all just need to shut up!".

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-ten-most-important-climate-change-skeptics-2009-7?op=1

[Stevemercer]

I used to work in the Australian Government Department of the Environment which has extensive expertise in climate change. To summarise my knowledge, there is world scientific consensus that human-induced climate change is happening (due to increased carbon dioxide emissions in the atmosphere since industrialisation). However, there is disagreement over the rate of change against natural climate variability and other cyclic events such as sunspots and variations to earth's axis. But there is consensus that the rate of climatic change is much faster, and is happening within one or two generations (50 years), compared to natural climate variability.

Does it mean warmer Novembers for Thailand? Possibly, but no one can say for certain. Current green house predictions for Thailand are warmer dry seasons (by one or two degrees on average) and more rain during the wet season, but interspersed with greater frequency of droughts (particularly in the north and north-east of the country) and extreme rain events (particularly in coastal areas).

[movieplay]

I appreciate what steve is saying but I also think that little bit of consensus, where there is often debate as to what exactly it is, guarantees alot of government money going into climate change research and business.

[chiang mai]

Queue the poster who has a CSE Grade 2 in Woodwork who will come along and tell us that NASA and the entire scientific community is wrong on this point!

Many "geniuses" are self taught

Possibly, most I've come across however are delusional!

I enjoy a decent blag the same as the next man. But when faced with a man who has fourteen Phd's and has spent his entire life studying these things, at the request of various governments, and is now the head of climate research, (which employs a zillion people with only five Phd's each), to research the subject also, I wouldn't feel absolutely confident in saying to him, "er excuse me guv' but you're wrong", just because I had a feeling that he might be.

I mean, this is not exactly a , that colour is more lilac than purple issue, it has the potential to obliterate mankind and the planet. So for someone to stand up and state, "you're wrong" requires either supreme confidence (in which case let's all hear your arguments so that we can all sleep better) or, serious dysfunction in the front temporal lobe, (in which case, folks should quieten down and seek help)!

In other words, "This guy's really really smart, so ya'all just need to shut up!".

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-ten-most-important-climate-change-skeptics-2009-7?op=1

Five of those "climate skeptics" aren't really total skeptics at all, for the most part they seem to agree with the concept but just don't agree that the carbon based model is totally accurate or complete.

Perhaps also worth noting is the fact that at least half of them are acknowledged authors of books on the subject and this always makes me nervous, are these experts who happen to be authors or are they authors who know a lot about the subject matter, a rhetorical question.

[chiang mai]

An interesting slant on it all:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/prince-charles-says-climate-change-is-the-root-cause-of-syrian-war-a6744781.html

[Felt 35]

I don't need to hear scientist telling me about climate change or sceptics saying its not happen. I have a indoor /outdoor thermometer which I check every morning 0600am and 1800pm and have done so for 18 year and 9 months on the same house, piece of land, in the same region, province and city down here South and its certainly not getting cooler in South Thailand

[55Jay]

Five of those "climate skeptics" aren't really total skeptics at all, for the most part they seem to agree with the concept but just don't agree that the carbon based model is totally accurate or complete.

Perhaps also worth noting is the fact that at least half of them are acknowledged authors of books on the subject and this always makes me nervous, are these experts who happen to be authors or are they authors who know a lot about the subject matter, a rhetorical question.

I wonder if any global warming cum climate change scientist, or thier advocates, have ever written a book or made a film about this matter? Rhetorical quesiton.

[mommysboy]

Winter in Thailand is like summer in the south pole.

I lived in Bangkok for over 10 years and it seemed to me it was getting hotter as each year passed. In the Fortune Town area the green space slowly but surely disappeared, from wide open spaces to scatterings of trees and bushes at the roadside. The effect was tangible. The hot season became unbearable for me personally but I come from a cool climate.

When I popped back for a visit, one thing I noticed was that it never cooled down in the evening. Surat can get hot but there is always the chance of recovery at night. Bangkok on the other hand was like sleeping above a bakery in full swing.

Still miss the place mind. Wish I could live there again. On average, I believe it is the hottest city in the world. If true then I imagine this is because it never cools down much overnight.

Edited November 24, 2015 by mommysboy

[chiang mai]

Five of those "climate skeptics" aren't really total skeptics at all, for the most part they seem to agree with the concept but just don't agree that the carbon based model is totally accurate or complete.

Perhaps also worth noting is the fact that at least half of them are acknowledged authors of books on the subject and this always makes me nervous, are these experts who happen to be authors or are they authors who know a lot about the subject matter, a rhetorical question.

I wonder if any global warming cum climate change scientist, or thier advocates, have ever written a book or made a film about this matter? Rhetorical quesiton.

Fair enough, it's just that if I wanted to role out a list of ten of the most prestigious supporters of a scientific topic I don't think I'd use the fiction journalist Michael Crichton, the author Ian Plimer whose book on the subject has been debunked more times than a recruit in basic training and Myron Ebell, one of the worlds best known lobbyist on any subject for money! Neither would I quote a man whose sole reason for being a contrarian on this point is because he thinks we should tackle AIDS and malaria instead, I mean, talk about misguided priorities!

[55Jay]

Five of those "climate skeptics" aren't really total skeptics at all, for the most part they seem to agree with the concept but just don't agree that the carbon based model is totally accurate or complete.

Perhaps also worth noting is the fact that at least half of them are acknowledged authors of books on the subject and this always makes me nervous, are these experts who happen to be authors or are they authors who know a lot about the subject matter, a rhetorical question.

I wonder if any global warming cum climate change scientist, or thier advocates, have ever written a book or made a film about this matter? Rhetorical quesiton.

Fair enough, it's just that if I wanted to role out a list of ten of the most prestigious supporters of a scientific topic I don't think I'd use the fiction journalist Michael Crichton, the author Ian Plimer whose book on the subject has been debunked more times than a recruit in basic training and Myron Ebell, one of the worlds best known lobbyist on any subject for money! Neither would I quote a man whose sole reason for being a contrarian on this point is because he thinks we should tackle AIDS and malaria instead, I mean, talk about misguided priorities!

Fair enough, and I think my point has been made.