US expats - pay your taxes or lose your passport

[Contented]

Sorry, but I think having a passport is a Privilege and not a right.

Article 13.2 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights reads:

Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

Granted, it's vague and could be interpreted in many ways, but one could certainly ascertain that of those interpretations, it is most certainly a right - and not just a "privilege" - to allow the procurement of document which is required to leave (and enter) the U.S. - which is obviously a U.S. passport.

I'll respectfully listen to your rebuttal.

[spike]

Meanwhile corporations get away with paying nothing so they come down on the easiest targets, us the taxpayer

What do you think should happen when you owe $50k USD in taxes? Should the government throw a party for you? Try running out on a 1,75m baht bill in Thailand and you will lose more than your passport.

[DennisF]

Meanwhile corporations get away with paying nothing so they come down on the easiest targets, us the taxpayer

What do you think should happen when you owe $50k USD in taxes? Should the government throw a party for you? Try running out on a 1,75m baht bill in Thailand and you will lose more than your passport.

Maybe the governments in power should be required to justify taxes.

That would be interesting.

[gandalf12]

Blood sucking US taxman, no other country taxes their citizens when they are not resident in their country!

Canada does if they own anything in Canada such as a house

[sanukjim]

It is easy to give up your US citizenship.If you owe taxes then you are still considered in dept and would be arrested upon returning to CONUS even as a citizen of another country. Recently a former citizen with two nationalities that had given up his US citizenship was refused entry with his other passport even though he owed no taxes.Who here do you know that has made enough money to owe $50,000.?

[fekman]

Here's what Simon Black has to say:

Sometimes you just have to stand in awe at the level of corruption and incompetence in government.

Case in point, the new highway bill in the Land of the Free. And, trust me, you’ll love this.

The latest version of the highway bill is called the “Developing a Reliable and Innovative Vision for the Economy Act.”

And yes, they abbreviate it as the DRIVE Act.

I cannot even begin to imagine how large the team of monkeys is that works on these silly acronyms. And as is typical for legislation, the more high sounding the name of the law, the more destructive its consequences.

On the surface, the DRIVE Act aims to fund the federal transportation network and investments in highway infrastructure for the next several years, as well as recapitalize the Highway Trust Fund.

Federal trust funds are supposed to responsibly and conservatively manage money that has been set aside for a specific purpose to benefit taxpayers.

There are so many of these trust funds. There are the big ones like Social Security’s “Old Age Survivor’s Insurance” and “Disability Insurance” (which is literally days away from running out of money).

And there are many more you’ve probably never heard about, like the “Black Lung” trust fund and the “Leaking Underground Storage Tank” trust fund.

Most of these funds are insolvent, or at least pitifully undercapitalized, clearly proving the government to be one of the worst asset managers in history.

The Highway Trust Fund is no exception: it has completely run out of money, and at this point literally has a ZERO account balance. The DRIVE Act intends to fix that.

And even though it has nothing to do with funding highways, the bill also aims to re-authorize the Export-Import Bank.

The Ex-Im Bank was created during the Great Depression and is designed to facilitate trade. That’s code for ‘boost the profits of Boeing and General Electric.’

Even the government’s own Congressional Research Service found that “more than 60% of Ex-Im Bank’s loan guarantees, by dollar value, supported the sale of Boeing airplanes in foreign countries”.

Ex-Im is essentially a gift on a golden platter from the taxpayers of the United States to a handful of mega-companies.

The Bank’s charter lapsed earlier this year. But rather than let it die, they’re jumpstarting Ex-Im with even more taxpayer money.

Clearly the government needs cash. They need to fund Ex-Im, the Highway Trust Fund, and all the improvements for America’s dilapidated infrastructure.

And their solutions to address this cash crunch are nothing short of remarkable.

For example, they plan to steal $300 million from the Leaking Underground Storage Tank trust fund (LUST… yes, that’s really what they call it), and transfer that money to the Highway Fund.

The only problem is that LUST is insolvent. So they’re stealing from one insolvent trust to fund another insolvent trust. It’s genius!

One of my favorite sections in the bill is a directive to sell off 100+ million barrels of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

Only a politician could think to sell off oil supplies at a time when oil price is at multi-year lows.

(It also really gives you a sense of how broke the government really is that they’re driven raise cash by selling off strategic assets.)

Another gem buried in the 864 pages of the bill is a provision that allows the government to revoke your passport if they believe that you owe more than $50,000 in federal tax.

There will be no judicial review, and no due process. You don’t get to go in front of a judge first to have a fair and impartial hearing over whether or not the government’s tax allegations are accurate.

The language in the law is very clear: they can simply revoke your passport if you owe them money in their sole discretion.

Once the law is passed, this would go into effect on January 1, 2016, and they claim it will generate $40 million per year in tax revenue.

There was one more provision that proposed raising revenue from the biggest banks in America by reducing the dividend they receive from the Federal Reserve.

Curiously, though, this specific provision was defeated yesterday after a heated committee meeting in Congress.

So while the banks’ profits are off-limits, and the government will spend billions of taxpayer dollars to boost profits at Boeing, American citizens are threatened with having their passports revoked in order to raise money.

It couldn’t be any more obvious how much the system is stacked against the little guy.

They treat you like a dairy cow that exists only to be milked dry… like a medieval serf tied to the land and forced to serve his overlords.

It’s revolting. But it doesn’t have to be this way.

You can take sensible, rational steps to divorce yourself from this madness, or at least have a Plan B to protect yourself from it.

If the government is threatening to take away your passport, for example, there are countless ways you can obtain another one from a country that will roll out the red carpet for you.

If you’re sick and tired of having your income confiscated so that you can bail out big companies, there are completely legal steps you can take to reduce what you owe.

It’s hard to imagine you’ll be worse off being more free and having more control over your life and finances.

This is the third time its been included in bills, and been removed before passage both times. Maybe it will get through this time??

[lopburi3]

Sorry, but I think having a passport is a Privilege and not a right.

Article 13.2 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights reads:

Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

Granted, it's vague and could be interpreted in many ways, but one could certainly ascertain that of those interpretations, it is most certainly a right - and not just a "privilege" - to allow the procurement of document which is required to leave (and enter) the U.S. - which is obviously a U.S. passport.

I'll respectfully listen to your rebuttal.

But this has nothing to do with leaving - a passport is used to enter another country.

[MANFROMBOCA]

Typical overreaching government scheme. It won't pass constitutional muster without being amended. In order to meet basic due process requirements, there has to be a hearing on whether money is owed to the IRS. Typically, the IRS just files a tax lien with no due process hearing. That's not going to be sufficient to revoke a passport, over which the owner has a property right (5th amendment). Contrary to popular belief, the government does not own your passport. Just like a driver's license, it can't be revoked without the right of a hearing.

Sorry, but I think having a passport is a Privilege and not a right. It is not considered one's personal property. I don't think any constitutional challenge will be forthcoming. In addition, the IRS searches and seizes stuff all the time and with a huge amount of leeway and rarely gets over-ruled by other courts.

Interesting that you think freedom of movement is not a right.

Maybe we should all be grateful for the place we are born in and say nothing about irregularities and just

be grateful we have the 'altruistic' political system imposed upon us.

Do not travel, you may discover your paradise is hell?? Is that what you are advocating??

Strange post.

how did you come to this conclusion of freedom of movement,,,by the post ??? and anyway in most countries its not a right and a passport is a not a right of ownership so yes your post is strange

and for the first response the 5th adm does not apply to passports and drivers licences can be revoked without a hearing you agree to that when you sign your licence at least in the state of florida

[Andrew65]

Meanwhile corporations get away with paying nothing so they come down on the easiest targets, us the taxpayer

What do you think should happen when you owe $50k USD in taxes? Should the government throw a party for you? Try running out on a 1,75m baht bill in Thailand and you will lose more than your passport.

Maybe the governments in power should be required to justify taxes.

That would be interesting.

Surely the same as in any country, just give a list of the things that taxes pay for?

Edited November 21, 2015 by Andrew65

[DennisF]

Typical overreaching government scheme. It won't pass constitutional muster without being amended. In order to meet basic due process requirements, there has to be a hearing on whether money is owed to the IRS. Typically, the IRS just files a tax lien with no due process hearing. That's not going to be sufficient to revoke a passport, over which the owner has a property right (5th amendment). Contrary to popular belief, the government does not own your passport. Just like a driver's license, it can't be revoked without the right of a hearing.

Sorry, but I think having a passport is a Privilege and not a right. It is not considered one's personal property. I don't think any constitutional challenge will be forthcoming. In addition, the IRS searches and seizes stuff all the time and with a huge amount of leeway and rarely gets over-ruled by other courts.

Interesting that you think freedom of movement is not a right.

Maybe we should all be grateful for the place we are born in and say nothing about irregularities and just

be grateful we have the 'altruistic' political system imposed upon us.

Do not travel, you may discover your paradise is hell?? Is that what you are advocating??

Strange post.

how did you come to this conclusion of freedom of movement,,,by the post ??? and anyway in most countries its not a right and a passport is a not a right of ownership so yes your post is strange

and for the first response the 5th adm does not apply to passports and drivers licences can be revoked without a hearing you agree to that when you sign your licence at least in the state of florida

My sincere apologies, even having lived in F. Lauderdale for a while I was not informed it was the hub of human rights legislation.

I believe that freedom of movement requires a passport. Denying a passport restricts that basic human right.

Get it?

[DennisF]

Meanwhile corporations get away with paying nothing so they come down on the easiest targets, us the taxpayer

What do you think should happen when you owe $50k USD in taxes? Should the government throw a party for you? Try running out on a 1,75m baht bill in Thailand and you will lose more than your passport.

Maybe the governments in power should be required to justify taxes.

That would be interesting.

Surely the same as in any country, just give a list of the things that taxes pay for

A list is not exactly the same as justification now,is it?

[impulse]

One of the wingnut conspiracy blogs I follow occasionally stumble into seems to think there's a connection between this rule and the "no pages added" policy.

Their thinking is that a SSN is required on the form to renew or replace a passport. But the rule doesn't specifically say it's required for adding pages to an existing passport, just for replacing or renewing.

Like TVF, the blog is fascinating insight into the concerns and the thinking of expats, but not a definitive source of information since the SSN for adding pages has been debated ad nauseum since I found the blog site 10 years ago. Some guys claim they specifically omit SSN from the form on advice of their attorneys, others claim they tried it and failed.

[humqdpf]

Blood sucking US taxman, no other country taxes their citizens when they are not resident in their country!

Oh yes they do. Most countries will tax you on any income or capital gains main within the country, even if you are non-resident.

What is different is that US citizens must make tax returns even when they have no taxable income in the USA.

[ggt]

I think quite a few would be happy to lose their passport to stop paying taxes. Even give up citizenship is made difficult by the US govt.

I cannot understand people who want to be US citizens, its like the Hotel California.

Americans love Obamaland...filled with clowns, comedians, and IRS agents...

[JDGRUEN]

It would be nice - if at the same time the IRS would collect delinquent taxes owed by a large percentage of IRS employees that go unpaid year after year...

[Contented]

Sorry, but I think having a passport is a Privilege and not a right.

Article 13.2 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights reads:

Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

Granted, it's vague and could be interpreted in many ways, but one could certainly ascertain that of those interpretations, it is most certainly a right - and not just a "privilege" - to allow the procurement of document which is required to leave (and enter) the U.S. - which is obviously a U.S. passport.

I'll respectfully listen to your rebuttal.

But this has nothing to do with leaving - a passport is used to enter another country.

Ah, it's the ol' Catch 22 trick:

"A valid U.S. passport is required to enter and leave most foreign countries, as well as to return to the United States".

one source:http://travel.state.gov/content/studentsabroad/en/travel-docs/passports.html

You might not need one to leave (very curiously, I actually didn't easily find a stipulation that one is not required upon departing the US), but a US citizen is required to have one to get back in.

So, if a U.S. Citizen is required to have a US Passport to enter into the US ("his country"), Article 13.2 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights applies ("a right to return to his country") - which is the subject of our debate.

What do you think?

[lopburi3]

Land or Sea Travel: U.S. citizens entering the United States by land or sea are required to present a valid WHTI-compliant document, which include:

• U.S. Passports
• U.S. Passport Cards
• Enhanced Driver's Licenses
• Trusted Traveler Cards (Global Entry*, NEXUS, SENTRI, or FAST)
• Military Identification Cards (for members of the U.S. armed forces on official orders)
• U.S. Merchant Mariner Document (for U.S. citizens on official maritime business)

*The Global Entry (GE) card is only an ENTRY document and may not be used to enter Canada, Mexico or Adjacent Island.

Military personnel traveling under orders may present photo ID and orders. Family members must present a passport (with the exception of children 15 and younger arriving by land or sea.)

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/74/~/us-citizens---documents-needed-for-entry-into-the-u.s.

[The Deerhunter]

Blood sucking US taxman, no other country taxes their citizens when they are not resident in their country!

More common than you might think. My country would tax me again AFTER Thailand taxed me if I earned here. No chance of that. On a retirement visa.

[MANFROMBOCA]

I think US democracy should be forced on every country, by military force if needed, as it is the most open and non corrupt system there is...

Not only that they should be the judge and jury of how other countries conduct themselves...

OH.... wait a minute....

(sarcasm)

and i also quote you

"My sincere apologies, even having lived in F. Lauderdale for a while I was not informed it was the hub of human rights legislation.

I believe that freedom of movement requires a passport. Denying a passport restricts that basic human right.

Get it?"\\

NO i dont get it how does florida being able to revoke your license make them the hub of human rights legislation, you seem to have a comprehension problem and just seem that you want to prove yourself right with faux intelligence and backwards logic,, but i guess thats an dying empire thing

[TerrylSky]

JMcarty: "Blood sucking US taxman, no other country taxes their citizens when they are not resident in their country"

Well, you got that right, especially when so many billions are spent on stupid ass, needless wars - and more billions given to the Israelis.

[billd766]

Would not surprise me in the slightest if the jolly old taxman at HMRC were, sooner rather than later, to press for similar measures to be introduced for defaulting UK taxpayers!

Strangely enough the UK government simply cannot afford to update my pension, but they can afford stateless immigrants to come to the UK for free.

One thing they never seem to forget though is to tax me on my pensions every year.

[billd766]

Blood sucking US taxman, no other country taxes their citizens when they are not resident in their country!

The UK does.

[ilostmypassword]

Typical overreaching government scheme. It won't pass constitutional muster without being amended. In order to meet basic due process requirements, there has to be a hearing on whether money is owed to the IRS. Typically, the IRS just files a tax lien with no due process hearing. That's not going to be sufficient to revoke a passport, over which the owner has a property right (5th amendment). Contrary to popular belief, the government does not own your passport. Just like a driver's license, it can't be revoked without the right of a hearing.

Not so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haig_v._Agee

[TerrylSky]

Yeah that's right Overeducated Hillbilly: "It would be nice - if at the same time the IRS would collect delinquent taxes owed by a large percentage of IRS employees that go unpaid year after year..." It would be nice too if they would collect delinquent taxes and penalties owed by Exxon (and the Alaska oil spill damages owed over 15 years!) amounting to billions and billions of dollars, greedy ass rich individuals like the Cheneys and crew, and the many criminal corporations in bed with the lobbyists and politicians who write the tax laws in the first place. Bernie Sanders for President! And as I wrote before, the U.S. could save a wee bit or two by not giving the Israelis billions and billions of dollars every year, and not building a fighter plane or two, or a 50,000 foot aircraft carrier, or curtailing an endless list of wasteful practices sparked by lobbyists. It's insane.

[bangon04]

Blood sucking US taxman, no other country taxes their citizens when they are not resident in their country!

I do not disagree with paying income tax, it's the amount. If you think your country is unfair with the

tax they want from you then don't declare it all.

"Once the law is passed, this would go into effect on January 1, 2016, and they claim it will generate $40 million per year in tax revenue. "

and how many smart bombs is that, exactly? Enough for one day / two days bombing the desert?

You have a link? I was thinking at least 10 x that

"Nevertheless, the cost of a basic AASM is still expected to ship at around $300,000 apiece (€200,000)."

http://defense-update.com/20110506_precision_attack.html#.VlCU8Mcnzv8

or one cruise missile at approx. one million....

Of course we all know they launch themselves so no additional costs at all.

Pay your taxes for life and fund one cruise missile? Better hope it is used wisely......

(to support the weapons industry, mainly)

Edited November 21, 2015 by bangon04

[Gillyflower]

Many years ago, you couldn't get out of Australia if you didn't have a tax clearance. I suppose it has changed now.

[Dustdevil]

Blood sucking US taxman, no other country taxes their citizens when they are not resident in their country!

Hello--I worked overseas from 1986 until this year and I was never taxed. It only applies if you earn above around $96,000, and then they tax you for whatever is above that amount, not the whole amount. (So if you earn 100,000, $4,000 is taxable, but given the standard deductions, you still won't pay any tax on that.)

[kingalfred]

Biggest joke of all . The USA , the country of liberal free market capitalism demands the passport holders have to file tax returns in a foreign country. Always laugh when Americans in BKK tell me about US bureaucracy. Very State socialist.

[Dustdevil]

U.S. Citizen Exempt form taxes on earnings from outside the U.S. up to 96,000.00 U.S.D.

But must meet the residency requirements, just look up IRS form 2555, explains it.

You must also be outside the U.S. for at

least 330 days in your tax year, this is where they get most people, exceed the time and you are no longer exempt.

HOWEVER: Those 330 days can be pro-rated. I know because my accounting firm did that for me. So if you've already established Bona-Fide Residence abroad and one year you visit the U.S. for 180 days, you still get 1/2 of the 96,000 exemption.

[Dustdevil]

Meanwhile corporations get away with paying nothing so they come down on the easiest targets, us the taxpayer

I am sorry I can only give you one like. Yes we are the low hanging fruit. Easily intimidated and frightened. I have come to the conclusion that I am now to old to frighten have at it you SOB'S

"EHXcellent...."