Thai wife has to register falang husband's whereabouts?

[scorecard]

There seems to be somebody misinterpreting section 38 of the immigration act. The TM30 report is only needed once when the alien moves into the residence.

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

There is certainly no requirement to report every time they leave the residence for more than 24 hours. I think there is misunderstanding or perhaps misinformation about what immigration is asking for.

ubonjoe,

Thanks as always for your explanations and advice.

I have PR (many years) and I live with my adult Thai son, the chanut is in his name.

Although we are all family members it seems that my son should submit this form.

But does it also apply to PR holders?

Can you please advise. Thanks.

[ubonjoe]

My understanding is that it's been required by any hotel, apartment or other rental option to report monthly on any foreign residents for the past 10-15 years.

This is not true. The notification, with the form TM.30, is made only once, within 24 hours of the arrival of the foreigner, regardless of the length of stay.

but regardless of the number of stays. ie if the foreigner visits every week / month then each time the form must be submitted?

If you check into a hotel and etc every week they would have to report you.

If you are staying in home, apartment and etc that you are renting on a long term basis and always return to the same address it would not be required.

[Tywais]

MAYBE A LETTER TO THE IMMIGRATION CHIEF ASKING HIM TO CLARIFY WHATS THESE NEW RULES ARE.

come on thai visa RATTLE THE CAGE.

This is not a new rule. It has been on the books since the 1979 immigration act. It is only recently been more vigorously enforced, possibly due to events over the last several months. Not any different then the 90 day reporting, it also had been on the books for many years but only started getting heavily enforced about 10+ years ago. The first 10 years or so ago I never did a 90 day report nor anyone I knew as there was no enforcement. But it did catch up to me on an extension renewal.

[LivinLOS]

I am going to assume the OPs report is inaccurate and its nothing to with the wife reporting, its the landlords problem ??

I report my address.. both on arrival and every 90 days.. thats the sum amount of input from me or my wife to not generate any fines ?? Correct ??

Any further fines are the landlords duty and problem ??

[ttthailand]

This means no more trips to see the girlfriend's mother. I am sure the mother would love to travel the 40km to immigration every time we stop by for a night stay. Stupid as stupid gets .... This country gets dumber and more confusing year after year. And if we have to report every time I am away for 24 hours won't happen as this is weekly. Hahaha.....

Edited November 27, 2015 by ttthailand

[ubonjoe]

There seems to be somebody misinterpreting section 38 of the immigration act. The TM30 report is only needed once when the alien moves into the residence.

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

There is certainly no requirement to report every time they leave the residence for more than 24 hours. I think there is misunderstanding or perhaps misinformation about what immigration is asking for.

ubonjoe,

Thanks as always for your explanations and advice.

I have PR (many years) and I live with my adult Thai son, the chanut is in his name.

Although we are all family members it seems that my son should submit this form.

But does it also apply to PR holders?

Can you please advise. Thanks.

If you have PR there are no reporting requirements for you other than the one every 5 years.

[Autonuaq]

have a look at TM28 and TM30

you see there is nothing new.

tm30 - alian stay by business

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=alienstay

TM28 - report done by Alian Schange or stay or over 24 hrs in new Province

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/download/tm28.doc

this and other document you can find:

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=download

tm28.doc

Edited November 27, 2015 by Autonuaq

[BarnicaleBob]

If you rent the house from a Thai who lives outside of Thailand what do you have to do then ?

Im now just a renter.

A few weeks ago when all this TM-30 stuff started, my wife and I set up a meeting on behalf of an American organization I belong to. We went to the Promenada Immigration office and had a sit down hour long talk with the person in charge and some of the staff. We asked every question we could think of so I would have all the answers for the people of my organization.

Here are some of the answers we got:

1. The TM-30 is a form for the person who owns the property you are staying at to fill out and send in within 24 hours of your arrival at that property. (The TM-30 is not a form for the foreign person to fill out and it is not that person who is fined if the form is not turned in, it is the property owner or person designated by them who is fined).

2. If you rent from a Thai who lives overseas, that person needs to have a limited power of attorney drawn up giving someone in Thailand the authority to file a TM-30 on their behalf.

3. As stated before, having a yellow book means nothing in regards to the TM-30. The TM-30 is used to track the movements of foreign people within Thailand.

4. If you are living here on any long term visa (marriage, retirement, work and so on) and have a full time residence, a TM-30 needs to be filed within 24 hours of your arrival but if you travel within Thailand on short trips for weekends and such it does not need to be refiled. However, anytime you leave and return to the Kingdom a new TM-30 needs to be sent in within 24 hours of your arrival at your residence. In cases where you do not go directly to your residence and spend a few nights in hotels elsewhere in Thailand a TM-30 does not need to be done until you arrive at your home). However, hotels you stay at they must report you but as stated before, it is their responsibility to do not yours.

5. Different Immigration offices interpret the law in differing ways, so for now I can only say the above information may only apply to Chiang Mai Immigration at the Promenada. For example; Chiang Mai Immigration located near the Airport will fine the property owner if they are late in filing a TM-30 but Immigration at the Promenada (so far) has not been fining property owners under most circumstances.

[Autonuaq]

If you rent the house from a Thai who lives outside of Thailand what do you have to do then ?

Im now just a renter.

A few weeks ago when all this TM-30 stuff started, my wife and I set up a meeting on behalf of an American organization I belong to. We went to the Promenada Immigration office and had a sit down hour long talk with the person in charge and some of the staff. We asked every question we could think of so I would have all the answers for the people of my organization.

Here are some of the answers we got:

1. The TM-30 is a form for the person who owns the property you are staying at to fill out and send in within 24 hours of your arrival at that property. (The TM-30 is not a form for the foreign person to fill out and it is not that person who is fined if the form is not turned in, it is the property owner or person designated by them who is fined).

2. If you rent from a Thai who lives overseas, that person needs to have a limited power of attorney drawn up giving someone in Thailand the authority to file a TM-30 on their behalf.

3. As stated before, having a yellow book means nothing in regards to the TM-30. The TM-30 is used to track the movements of foreign people within Thailand.

4. If you are living here on any long term visa (marriage, retirement, work and so on) and have a full time residence, a TM-30 needs to be filed within 24 hours of your arrival but if you travel within Thailand on short trips for weekends and such it does not need to be refiled. However, anytime you leave and return to the Kingdom a new TM-30 needs to be sent in within 24 hours of your arrival at your residence. In cases where you do not go directly to your residence and spend a few nights in hotels elsewhere in Thailand a TM-30 does not need to be done until you arrive at your home). However, hotels you stay at they must report you but as stated before, it is their responsibility to do not yours.

5. Different Immigration offices interpret the law in differing ways, so for now I can only say the above information may only apply to Chiang Mai Immigration at the Promenada. For example; Chiang Mai Immigration located near the Airport will fine the property owner if they are late in filing a TM-30 but Immigration at the Promenada (so far) has not been fining property owners under most circumstances.

In the story they told they also added the TM28 to the story in other cases too of who to use the froms and to report

the tile of the document TM 28 (see also enclosed)

FORM FOR ALIENS TO NOTIFY THEIR CHANGE OF ADDRESS

OR THEIR STAY IN THE PROVINCE FOR OVER 24 HOURS

You have to do it within the time state. TM47 (90 Day report) is separate.

TM28 and TM 30 enclosed

tm28.doc

tm47.doc

[Krataiboy]

Why go looking for trouble?

[Minnehaha]

There seems to be somebody misinterpreting section 38 of the immigration act. The TM30 report is only needed once when the alien moves into the residence.

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

There is certainly no requirement to report every time they leave the residence for more than 24 hours. I think there is misunderstanding or perhaps misinformation about what immigration is asking for.

Would having a 'tambien baan' in my name replace the need for the TM 30?

(I guess not, since govt agencies do not really talk to each other.)

I have one at my place of residence, which is owned by my wife, and do a non-immigrant - O visa, extension based on marriage..... do annual renewal and extension, no problems in the past.

[ubonjoe]

Would having a 'tambien baan' in my name replace the need for the TM 30?

(I guess not, since govt agencies do not really talk to each other.)

I have one at my place of residence, which is owned by my wife, and do a non-immigrant - O visa, extension based on marriage..... do annual renewal and extension, no problems in the past.

Do you still need a TM30 if you have a Yellow TB?

From my previous post. "Having a yellow house book in reality changes nothing for the reporting."

It is only accepted as a proof of residence and in some cases it is not enough for that.

As you can see I have already answered the same question twice already,

[JoeW]

When I went to apply for an extension of stay based upon marriage (non-immigrant o) at Sakhon Nakhon, they asked my wife to fill in the TM 30.

We didn't have to pay a fine for not filling it in right away, but they did request to fill it in during the application process on that day.

[bob009]

Ye Im on a retirement visa. My wife had a form delivered to the house 2 days ago by the local police, She filled it in +copy of my passport and yellow book along with a photo. She then left it with her aunt as a police officer had arranged to pick it up from her. No problem.

[TigerandDog]

My understanding is that it's been required by any hotel, apartment or other rental option to report monthly on any foreign residents for the past 10-15 years.

This is not true. The notification, with the form TM.30, is made only once, within 24 hours of the arrival of the foreigner, regardless of the length of stay.

Maestro, you are off topic with your reply. Yes TM30 relates to foreigners staying in hotels, apartments or other rental options when they arrive at that place. However this relates to a foreigner living with his Thai wife, presumably either in their own home/condo, or a rental accommodation that sounds like the lease is in the Thai wife's name. The question being asked is does the wife have to notify Immigration that her foreign husband/partner has returned to their main address from another part of Thailand. e.g. 1. I live in Bangkok, I travel to Hua Hin for 1 week, the hotel I stay at completes and submits the form TM30 as required. So what you are saying is my Thai gf (lease is in her name) must notify Immigration when I return to Bangkok. e.g. 2. My gf and I travel to Chiang Mai and stay at a friends house. I assume that the friend is supposed to complete and submit a TM30. ( I can guarantee this NEVER happens), and when we return to Bangkok she has to again notify Immigration of my return. Seems like a lot of wasted energy on pointless administration, especially when we have to report our whereabouts every 90 days. BTW my gf and many other Thais I know and have discussed this with have NEVER heard of such a rule, so you can see why it doesn't happen.

[mca]

I'm extending my permission to stay through marriage next month. Would it be prudent to also fill in a TM 30 and hand it in at the same time?

Whether you would complete the form would depend upon whose name is on a house book or rental agreement.

You could have one completed in case they ask for it. But I would not hand it over unless asked.

It's my wife's name on the house book as she owns it. To be honest I've never filled in a TM 30 in 18 years and 16 years of marriage and the last time I reenteredThailand was 3 years ago after a family trip with her and y daughter back to the UK. Will she be hit for a fine for not reporting me coming back to our home 3 years ago if they do ask where the TM 30 is or will they just accept the TM 30 which I hand them if they ask for it? This is Khon Kaen immi if anyone has any experience there.

[ttthailand]

It's all getting a bit complicated these days.... Makes you stop and think what's next ....

[MrBrad]

How is all of this tracking being monitored and enforced?

There cannot possibly be the required number of Immigration employees to go out into the hinterland looking under every rock to see if there are any foreigners present, and then find out who owns the rock, and knock on that person's door to fine them.

With some estimated 80,000-100,000 foreigners in Chiang Mai alone--who really knows?, plus hundreds of thousands more tourists in the country at any given time, who, really, is on top of where every foreigner is sleeping? What a job!

[ubonjoe]

My understanding is that it's been required by any hotel, apartment or other rental option to report monthly on any foreign residents for the past 10-15 years.

This is not true. The notification, with the form TM.30, is made only once, within 24 hours of the arrival of the foreigner, regardless of the length of stay.

Maestro, you are off topic with your reply. Yes TM30 relates to foreigners staying in hotels, apartments or other rental options when they arrive at that place. However this relates to a foreigner living with his Thai wife, presumably either in their own home/condo, or a rental accommodation that sounds like the lease is in the Thai wife's name. The question being asked is does the wife have to notify Immigration that her foreign husband/partner has returned to their main address from another part of Thailand. e.g. 1. I live in Bangkok, I travel to Hua Hin for 1 week, the hotel I stay at completes and submits the form TM30 as required. So what you are saying is my Thai gf (lease is in her name) must notify Immigration when I return to Bangkok. e.g. 2. My gf and I travel to Chiang Mai and stay at a friends house. I assume that the friend is supposed to complete and submit a TM30. ( I can guarantee this NEVER happens), and when we return to Bangkok she has to again notify Immigration of my return. Seems like a lot of wasted energy on pointless administration, especially when we have to report our whereabouts every 90 days. BTW my gf and many other Thais I know and have discussed this with have NEVER heard of such a rule, so you can see why it doesn't happen.

He is on topic and correct. If your primary residence is reported no additional reporting for it is needed.

You can stay in hotels and etc and there is no requirement to do another report for your primary residence.

[TigerandDog]

have a look at TM28 and TM30

you see there is nothing new.

tm30 - alian stay by business

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=alienstay

TM28 - report done by Alian Schange or stay or over 24 hrs in new Province

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/download/tm28.doc

this and other document you can find:

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=download

So what your saying Autonuaq, if I'm understanding you correctly, is that if I go to another province for 1 week, and stay at a hotel, then the hotel must submit the TM30, but that I also have to submit a TM28. Doesn't sound right to me. It's definitely duplication of process. No wonder we are all so confused. I still don't know whether my Thai partner ( apartment lease is in her name) has to submit a report every time I return from a trip within Thailand. Ubonjoe, you seem to make the most sense out of all this confusion, please advise.

Edited November 27, 2015 by TigerandDog

[NoshowJones]

They hit my wife with this last month. She was NOT happy, to say the least. Told them we first did a marriage extension 7 years ago, then after 1 year of that, changed it to Retirement Extension. And every 90 days for 7 frigging years, I've done a 90 day report, with the same frigging address, so why do they want this bull crap now? And I even have a Yellow Book. The simply told her "new rules", and that if she didn't do it, and get a form for me to staple in my passport, I would not be allowed to get a new extension in January.

This is Thailand, where nothing, and I mean absolutely NOTHING, is either simple or easy.

How many times have I said that? If there is a harder way to do anything, that's what will happen.

It is not in the Thai genes to make anything simple or easy.

[ubonjoe]

have a look at TM28 and TM30

you see there is nothing new.

tm30 - alian stay by business

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=alienstay

TM28 - report done by Alian Schange or stay or over 24 hrs in new Province

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/download/tm28.doc

this and other document you can find:

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=download

So what your saying Autonuaq, if I'm understanding you correctly, is that if I go to another province for 1 week, and stay at a hotel, then the hotel must submit the TM30, but that I also have to submit a TM28. Doesn't sound right to me. It's definitely duplication of process. No wonder we are all so confused. I still don't know whether my Thai partner ( apartment lease is in her name) has to submit a report every time I return from a trip within Thailand. Ubonjoe, you seem to make the most sense out of all this confusion, please advise.

The only time a TM28 is used is to report a change of address. Immigration does not enforce the staying more than 24 hours in another province part of it. They know it would be impossible to enforce it in this day and age.

The TM30 reporting is done by hotels and etc plus home owners, heads of household and possessors of a residence.

[JLT]

I am going to assume the OPs report is inaccurate and its nothing to with the wife reporting, its the landlords problem ??

I report my address.. both on arrival and every 90 days.. thats the sum amount of input from me or my wife to not generate any fines ?? Correct ??

Any further fines are the landlords duty and problem ??

Your assumption is wrong. Everything I said in my original post was accurate.

[NotEinstein]

My wife has been completing a TM30 to report my presence every time I/we have returned home to Thailand for the past 5 years. We also have to report foreign guesthouse clients, as every other guesthouse/hotel.

When the Immigration officer now processes me, he insists that my wife fill in the receipt with my details instead of hers and that it be stapled into my passport......

Edited November 27, 2015 by NotEinstein

[GOLDBUGGY]

My understanding is that it's been required by any hotel, apartment or other rental option to report monthly on any foreign residents for the past 10-15 years.

This is not true. The notification, with the form TM.30, is made only once, within 24 hours of the arrival of the foreigner, regardless of the length of stay.

When did it start being required of a wife to report her husband? It may have been on the books, and we all know about hotels notifying immigration, but since when did a wife have to report her husband? I've lived with my wife for 25 years, and been to immigration with her plenty of times, but never any mention of this.

Yeah! It confused me to.

I look at where I stay now as my Permanent Residence. If I were to move to someplace else I can understand having to fill out a new TM.30 and inform them of my move. But what confused me is if I leave my Permanent Residence to go to Bangkok for a weekend, the hotel should report that and thus they would know about it and where I am.

So why would my wife now have to fill out another TM 30 when I go back to my Permanent Residence again to let them know I am back home again? Doesn't make much sense to me but it is the law and if you don't want to be fined this is what you have to do. Or stay home and don't spend that money now, which I prefer.

Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be better to wear some bracelet, like a criminal, so they know were we are all the time, if it would cut out all this paper work. For the life of me I can't figure out why they are so paranoid of us all of a sudden. Besides the odd drunken misbehavior, I don't see us blowing up temples or anything like that. Go Figure?

[connda]

I'm extending my permission to stay through marriage next month. Would it be prudent to also fill in a TM 30 and hand it in at the same time?

Whether you would complete the form would depend upon whose name is on a house book or rental agreement.

You could have one completed in case they ask for it. But I would not hand it over unless asked.

It would be easy enough for an I/O to simply ask for one from your wife during your annual extension - but they don't. Law or not, it's bureaucratic and administrative over-kill when your address in on your TM7, the copy of your Yellow House Book, the map to your home that you give them during your annual extension interview (and on my current Thai drivers license), not to mention the four 90 day reports that you hand in during the year.

Like Ubonjoe mentioned, I'll carry a completed form and copies with me, but neither my wife nor I will volunteer to hand them over unless asked. Why? It ain't my responsibility for one (I don't own the house), and if they chose to 'bust' my wife, I'll pay her fine.

Edited November 27, 2015 by connda

[GOLDBUGGY]

There seems to be somebody misinterpreting section 38 of the immigration act. The TM30 report is only needed once when the alien moves into the residence.

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

There is certainly no requirement to report every time they leave the residence for more than 24 hours. I think there is misunderstanding or perhaps misinformation about what immigration is asking for.

UbonJoe

How does this apply to those of us with a yellow tabien baan and returning from a trip overseas to the same residence? We report that address on our arrival form and we are not moving in, we are simply returning to our Thai "home of record".

Having a yellow house book in reality changes nothing for the reporting.

My interpretation of section 38 and by many immigration offices is that a report is only needed if you change your residence.

But there are few immigration offices that claim the report needs to be done if you leave and re-enter the country.

I know you are always bang on UbonJoe when it comes to these immigration dealings but in your last line where you mention a few immigration offices are different, in there lies the problem.

Some immigration offices want you to fill out a TM 30 every time after you leave the country and on your return. Someone posted last week he left for a hotel for a few days and later his wife got fined because she did not fill out this TM 30 and report he returned.

I think most people want to avoid trouble and a fine with immigration for not following the rules, in which they seem not to know, So the logical thing to do is to fault on the side of safety. Meaning they can't fine you if you report every time you return to your residence within 24 hours. I am sure you are correct but how to deal with this is confusing, to say the least.

[ubonjoe]

Having a yellow house book in reality changes nothing for the reporting.

My interpretation of section 38 and by many immigration offices is that a report is only needed if you change your residence.

But there are few immigration offices that claim the report needs to be done if you leave and re-enter the country.

I know you are always bang on UbonJoe when it comes to these immigration dealings but in your last line where you mention a few immigration offices are different, in there lies the problem.

Some immigration offices want you to fill out a TM 30 every time after you leave the country and on your return. Someone posted last week he left for a hotel for a few days and later his wife got fined because she did not fill out this TM 30 and report he returned.

I think most people want to avoid trouble and a fine with immigration for not following the rules, in which they seem not to know, So the logical thing to do is to fault on the side of safety. Meaning they can't fine you if you report every time you return to your residence within 24 hours. I am sure you are correct but how to deal with this is confusing, to say the least.

The question I have is how would immigration know you had stayed at a hotel. They are not going to go digging through the database where reports done by hotels and etc are stored.

Entering the country would be different because you would have a new entry. But not all offices bother to try and enforce reporting for that because the rule really does not say you have do it.

I am certainly not going to make a 90 km trip to do a report when I leave home and stay in hotel and be told they don't want it. I stayed in hotels before I did my extension this year and was not asked for a TM30. In fact in over 7 years and doing 8 extensions I have never been asked for one.

[pattjock]

As part of the information you have to give on the TM30 form is your TM6 card number and arrival date it's pretty obvious that a new TM30 is required every time you get back into Thailand to keep this information correct.

If you do this and live in Bangkok then go to Phuket for a week and then return home to Bangkok you should not need a new TM30 when you return home to Bangkok as you have been residing there all the time just not been at home all the time. The hotel in Phuket should do a TM30 registration for your stay there.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Having a yellow house book in reality changes nothing for the reporting.

My interpretation of section 38 and by many immigration offices is that a report is only needed if you change your residence.

But there are few immigration offices that claim the report needs to be done if you leave and re-enter the country.

I know you are always bang on UbonJoe when it comes to these immigration dealings but in your last line where you mention a few immigration offices are different, in there lies the problem.

Some immigration offices want you to fill out a TM 30 every time after you leave the country and on your return. Someone posted last week he left for a hotel for a few days and later his wife got fined because she did not fill out this TM 30 and report he returned.

I think most people want to avoid trouble and a fine with immigration for not following the rules, in which they seem not to know, So the logical thing to do is to fault on the side of safety. Meaning they can't fine you if you report every time you return to your residence within 24 hours. I am sure you are correct but how to deal with this is confusing, to say the least.

The question I have is how would immigration know you had stayed at a hotel. They are not going to go digging through the database where reports done by hotels and etc are stored.

Entering the country would be different because you would have a new entry. But not all offices bother to try and enforce reporting for that because the rule really does not say you have do it.

I am certainly not going to make a 90 km trip to do a report when I leave home and stay in hotel and be told they don't want it. I stayed in hotels before I did my extension this year and was not asked for a TM30. In fact in over 7 years and doing 8 extensions I have never been asked for one.

I see your point if you stayed at a friends house or family. But last week this guy reported he stayed in a hotel in Thailand which of course reported his stay there. From what I gathered from his post it was because of this he got caught a couple of months later. He claimed they had a record of his hotel visit, but no record of his wife reporting his return. Thus they fined her.

I won't speak for him as I don't have all the facts but this is what he claimed. It does seem possible in this computer age, and immigration being more strict with things these days. Whether this actually happened or immigration was right or wrong in doing this, I have no idea.