Thai wife has to register falang husband's whereabouts?

[slerickson]

This is all confusing to me. I live with girl friend for the past 7 months, does she need to do a tm30?

Yes

If she owns or rents the property.

Thank you for the reply.

I guess we'll do it and hope for no fine. Neighbor with married Farang been residing for 12 years and no tm30 nonsense.

[LivinLOS]

If they think house masters have the time to constantly report my comings and goings.. They are dreaming.. My last landlord lived in Switzerland.. My current landlord is a busy judge who is constantly doing trials all over the country and I cant even get him to turn up at a weekend for some discussion, been trying for a month solid now. If he cant manage to be here at a weekend for a period of a month, you think hes got time to be traipsing to immigration every time I come or go ?? Or even to do it online..

Just silly. Unworkable, unenforceable, impractical and cant happen.. No amount of paranoid wanting to know every non thais movements changes that basic fact. They can do what they want, I wont be complying any more than I have done. If they really start to push this I will drop from extension to multiple entry visas and just drop off the radar. Its too silly to really bother complying with.

TM30 reporting can be made in person or by mail.

If Chiang Mai won't accept mail, you can do it in person.

I'm sure you could complete the TM30 and mail it to you landlord for his signature and return.

The Immigration Act defines the House Master as the owner, occupier or Tenant. (Section 4)

If Chiang Mai will not let you sign the form as the 'tenant' in the absence of your landlord, then perhaps you should bring the law to their attention.

I was in a similar predicament, but my Immigration office had no objection to me completing a signing the TM30 as long as I supplied copies of the landlords ID card and Tabian Baan, signed with contact number.

They merely phoned my landlord in my presence to confirm the details of the TM30.

Yeah great.. So now you go and tell chiang mai they are doing it wrong.. And get them to change their understanding and all will be well..

As per my posts.. they flat out refused to let me take the TM30 to get it signed and bring back.. Secondly, the TM30 is none of my business.. They want the landlord.. then they can go find him.. I did my TM28.. Thats my reporting.. They want someone else to do something else ?? Best they find him then..

It is not silly, unworkable, unenforceable or impractical, it's the law, whether enforced or not.

A multi entry Visa won't drop you off the radar either. Your exit and re-entry will be reported on a new TM6 every time.

If your Immigration office want a new TM30 from the House master every time you leave the Country and re-enter, he's soon going to get pissed with having you as a tenant.

Not just each re-enter.. Every tip of more then 24h outside the province.. Requires new TM28 and TM30s according to the law and how CNX explained..

I have 3 trips outside the province planned going to 5 places.. in the next 2 weeks.. You think I am going and reporting in each 5 places ?? You think my landlord is doing 3 TM30s each a few days apart from the next on each of my returns.. in just 12 to 14 days ?? Get real !!

So sure.. they can think thats the law.. but its an unworkable law, and one I wont be complying with..

Also as this is being enforced via interactions with local immigration.. and as yet no one has reported anyone being fined as they leave the country for not reporting.. then yes, going back to a multi entry and having nothing to do with incountry immigration does avoid the whole lot. Until they start demanding every tourist needs to be reporting every movement, and fining them on the outbound then simply by not having anything to do with them, will side step it.

I think your creating your own problems. With a simple observance and some common sense it's not difficult to follow the rules and avoid fines or warnings.

If your lifestyle dictates that you travel frequently around the Country visiting friends and family, then that's not the fault of the law, but your chosen lifestyle.

Living in Thailand dictates that you report your address(s) unfortunately.

It's a case of put up, or shut up.

I'd rather follow the paper trail here, than go through trying to get a Thai permission to live in the UK.

Reporting it once.. OK.. Reporting it every movement, something I might do multiple times a week, is a total farce and not worth even debating.

As to how hard it is to go to the uk.. Its pretty simple.. My wifes been back for extended periods.. My brothers wife after being given free language lessons, in a couple of years with no restricted professions is a full citizen, with voting rights, property ownership rights, unemployment and pension benefits.. In that few years it took, shes made enough money working there to buy 3 houses in Isaan.. So yeah totally like for like..

[LivinLOS]

So a TM30 should be completed by the House master every time an alien takes up a place of residency (temporarily or permanent) for more than 24 hours, but a TM28 by the alien only needs submitting when he changes and takes up a new permanent address.

Chiang mai was saying that each TM28 and TM30 has to 'link up' on the computer..

My landlord would need to be filing 80 to 100 TM30s a year if this is correct.. 1 or 2 a week. Plainly ridiculous, but not my fine, not my problem.. Let him solve it.

[Liquorice]

So a TM30 should be completed by the House master every time an alien takes up a place of residency (temporarily or permanent) for more than 24 hours, but a TM28 by the alien only needs submitting when he changes and takes up a new permanent address.

Chiang mai was saying that each TM28 and TM30 has to 'link up' on the computer..

That's correct, the system can be cross referenced to ensure the address reported by the alien and the House master match.

There is even a section on the database to put the landlords details in........I've seen my landlords details entered into it.

Please re-read my post #116. In particular the first paragraph!

From what I've read on other Forums, there are more than a few problems at Chiang Mai.

@Autonuaq...........That is what my Immigration tell me. LivinLOS is being told different by Chiang Mai.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Faz

[Maestro]

...

The Immigration Act defines the House Master as the owner, occupier or Tenant. (Section 4)

...

Not quite. From Section 4 of the English translation of the Immigration Act:

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of

owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

Perhaps the original Thai text makes it more difficult to understand and this may confuse some immigration officers, but the English translation is unambiguous:

in whatever capacity a person may be the "chief possessor" of a house, apartment or other type of residence, this person is the "house master"

• "chief possessor" = "house master"
• "house master" = "chief possessor"

1. If the owner is the "chief possessor", ie the owner himself lives in his property, then the owner is the "house master", otherwise
2. if a person rents the property from the owner, ie if this person is a tenant, then this tenant is the "chief possessor" and therefore the "house master", otherwise
3. if a person is the "chief possessor" of the property in any other capacity whatsoever, then this person is the "house master"

Now let us look at the text of Section 38, which is haphazard and clearly faulty and in my opinion is the major cause of confusion for immigration officers:

The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager

where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the

competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or

hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

For a start, after "house master" has been defined in Section 4 and no separate definition of 'house master is given in Section 38 to be applicable specifically for Section 38, it is wrong to write "The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence...". Correctly, it should be "The house – master of the residence..."

The way the text of Section 38 is written now, the fact that "house master" = "possessor" is ignored. Furthermore, it gives the impression that immigration officials are at liberty to choose from whom of three different persons – "house master" or "owner" or "possessor" – they want to request the TM.30 and that they even can, if they so choose, request it one year from one of these three persons, the next year from another person, and the year after that again from another person. This is definitely not the intention of the law. The intention is that the "house master" as defined in Section 4 must submit the TM.30 and that immigration can request it only from the "house master" as defined in Section 4 and fine only the "house master" as defined in Section 4 for the failure to submit the TM.30.

[Maestro]

Please be aware that The Thai version of all document in this country is the only valid document and prevailed above the English version.

The translation into English do not provide any rights..

Beside that the Thai law is clear about when and what to do.

Workable for us or not it is the law and regulation one has to comply to in Thailand.

Till now I wonder if there is a representation on this forum that did address the issue to the immigration department and got a written statement for the immigration department that all can use as well can be referred to.

Think that is the only and best solution to find out how ans what. and have to things in right order about TM30, TM28, TM 47 and other things that this post has brought up.

How to do?

.

Efforts in that direction were made but bore no fruit.

Every ministry, and in some ministries also the bigger departments, have their own legal departments. No doubt the Royal Thai Police has one and most likely the Immigration Bureau has its own, separate legal section. However, these are restricted to giving opinions and advice only to their own ministries or departments. This is why every so often we read newspapers quoting one provincial immigration chief saying one thing and little later another immigration chief saying the exact opposite, because either they believe they know what they are talking about, or they are unsure but choose not to consult their legal department about it.

About Thai law being clear, I'm not so sure. I pointed about that Section 38 of the Immigration Act is written wrongly. The only clear thing will be a court decision, and even with that, one court may decide a case one way and another court may rule very differently in an exactly identical case. However, I don't think we shall ever see a case going to court; it would not be cost-effective. Rather than fight windmills, the foreigner will pay an unjustified fine, grudgingly accept an unjustified refusal of an extension of stay, etc.

[LivinLOS]

About Thai law being clear, I'm not so sure. I pointed about that Section 38 of the Immigration Act is written wrongly. The only clear thing will be a court decision, and even with that, one court may decide a case one way and another court may rule very differently in an exactly identical case. However, I don't think we shall ever see a case going to court; it would not be cost-effective. Rather than fight windmills, the foreigner will pay an unjustified fine, grudgingly accept an unjustified refusal of an extension of stay, etc.

Agree that on many topic thai law is worded so vaguely and with poor logic (work is any work.. etc.. Using the word being defined in the definition) that in any developed place these laws would face legal challenges and be rewritten.. Also as you say, Thailand does not operate case law and precedents, so judges are free to rule however they wish without the constraints of prior legal basis..

I used to think it was done to allow vague interpretation and tea money, but over time and starting to have a bit more language, its also clear how Thai language seems to abhor precision.. Times, distance, direction, etc etc is constantly and continually left vague.

[sandyf]

An alien first reports his address on a TM6 when he enters the Country. That address will determine which Immigration office he may need to report at.

I do not believe that the address on the TM6 has ever been used, other than possibly when some enquiry has been initiated.

I have entered Thailand somewhere upwards of 70 times and a doubt if the address on any of the TM6's could have been accurately translated into the physical address, not deliberate, just not enough room. I had about 6 years on multi Non O's during which time most of the TM6's were completed by agents at the Cambodian border and their writing and abbreviations were worse than mine, but never challenged by an IO.

[Compo]

Is this whole thread a nice bit of ThaiVisa scaremongering ???

Just returned from a 3 day holiday weekend travelling around.

Could not be bothered to take my passport.

Never asked for it.

Traveled with 3 Thai women and passed numerous police checkpoints, like what you do in the north.

Stayed in 2 good hotels and drove ( without accident ) about 500 kms.

The girls bought 6 litres of scotch and a litre of gin in Tachilek, where they did a bit of fun gambling, whilst I did coffee and the crossword.

( Famous Grouse at 430 a litre and quite nice too.)

Is my ex, the current live in, my landlord, my employer or my office staff supposed to report my return to Chaingmai after 3 days away ??

Don't have a lease anyway.

Whoever it is, it won't happen.

Told the "live in" that she must go to Immigration tomorrow to report my absence away from home and my return, and was answered with a nice bit of Anglo Saxon.

I await arrest............( having had a nice week end with some nice Thai people )

[JackThompson]

I do not believe that the address on the TM6 has ever been used, other than possibly when some enquiry has been initiated.

I have entered Thailand somewhere upwards of 70 times and a doubt if the address on any of the TM6's could have been accurately translated into the physical address, not deliberate, just not enough room. I had about 6 years on multi Non O's during which time most of the TM6's were completed by agents at the Cambodian border and their writing and abbreviations were worse than mine, but never challenged by an IO.

I also have been frustrated by the space for the address, given the long address-names in Thailand, But given current events, climate, and reports, I would be sure that address is legible, and as complete as space allows. I carry a business-card for my condo, and what I fill in could defintely be connected to where I live, if they wished to make an inquiry. Maybe this will help if there is a problem down the road, maybe not - but it can't hurt to do one's "due dilligence" to the greatest extent possible.

[Liquorice]

I do not believe that the address on the TM6 has ever been used, other than possibly when some enquiry has been initiated.

I have entered Thailand somewhere upwards of 70 times and a doubt if the address on any of the TM6's could have been accurately translated into the physical address, not deliberate, just not enough room. I had about 6 years on multi Non O's during which time most of the TM6's were completed by agents at the Cambodian border and their writing and abbreviations were worse than mine, but never challenged by an IO.

I also have been frustrated by the space for the address, given the long address-names in Thailand, But given current events, climate, and reports, I would be sure that address is legible, and as complete as space allows. I carry a business-card for my condo, and what I fill in could defintely be connected to where I live, if they wished to make an inquiry. Maybe this will help if there is a problem down the road, maybe not - but it can't hurt to do one's "due dilligence" to the greatest extent possible.

They do indeed record the information from a TM6.

On my first visit to Immigration for an extension, they already had my basic details including address on their system.

As an aside, if my memory serves me correct, I'm sure I read a post on a previous topic that if you previously had a TM6, you enter that number in the address line of a new TM6 arrivals card, instead of the address. That immediately confirms your registered address with Immigration.

Perhaps someone can confirm, or is my memory fading.

[sandyf]

I do not believe that the address on the TM6 has ever been used, other than possibly when some enquiry has been initiated.

I have entered Thailand somewhere upwards of 70 times and a doubt if the address on any of the TM6's could have been accurately translated into the physical address, not deliberate, just not enough room. I had about 6 years on multi Non O's during which time most of the TM6's were completed by agents at the Cambodian border and their writing and abbreviations were worse than mine, but never challenged by an IO.

I also have been frustrated by the space for the address, given the long address-names in Thailand, But given current events, climate, and reports, I would be sure that address is legible, and as complete as space allows. I carry a business-card for my condo, and what I fill in could defintely be connected to where I live, if they wished to make an inquiry. Maybe this will help if there is a problem down the road, maybe not - but it can't hurt to do one's "due dilligence" to the greatest extent possible.

They do indeed record the information from a TM6.

On my first visit to Immigration for an extension, they already had my basic details including address on their system.

You obviously missed the point. Probably about 90 percent of TM6's are completed by people that will never see the inside of immigration, and those that will can put what they want without question.

Unverified information can be recorded but is of little use, we all know how accurate tourist stats are.