At least 14 people are reported dead in shooting at disabled centre in Southern California

[LarryBird]

The fact they had assault weapons, that it was a joint effort, that there were possible explosives thrown from a vehicle point to this being premeditated and NOT the result of a guy having a bad day at the office.

Let's have a closer look at the timeline :

The attacks started at 11.00 AM.

At 03.25 a SUV was intercepted by the police, just a few miles from the center, and a few miles from his domicile.

What happened in these +4 hours while the whole area was blocked from entry and exit ?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/12/02/timeline-events-san-bernardino-calif-shooting/76704492/

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1449130831.376040.jpg

Pardon me, but I'm not sure how that contradicts my post? I also meant to add that the suspects were dressed in assault gear.

[stevenl]

So if they were illegaly supplied weapons you think its ok?

If legally supplied you think the checks and balances were enough?

It would seem obvious that these lunatics should not have accessbto guns one way or the other.

If people still think there should not be more controls then they no right to offer condolenses, they are part of the problem.

Not to forget this was the second mass shooting in the US today.

Terrorists will acquire weapons whenever, and wherever they please. Permits or no permits. In San Bernandino or elsewhere. My statement was one of irony (Paris is no safer/regardless of gun laws....case in point). It just amazes me that people want to turn this into a gun control situation. Regulation does not fit. Terrorists work outside the law...(for those that do not realize this)

I think we are both in agreement.

Stricter gun legislation and checks would make it a lot harder to get hold of weapons. There is a reason these things happen time and time again only in the USA.

Only in the USA....??? wow.....I guess all that news I have been reading about terrorism and ISIS is not true. We are the only victims.

Thanks for pointing this out, and you are the first one to have said this. I am sure the grieving relatives in Paris would disagree with you....

and gun control never helped them a bit. Russia has it's own problems (bombing of aircraft and such)

a bit behind ..are you? If it is not a gun..it's a bomb or something else. I stand fast that this is not a gun control issue...it is a terrorist issue.

You know the meaning of the phrase 'time and time again'? You conveniently choose to omit that part from your answer.

Edited December 3, 2015 by stevenl

[DisparateDan]

Names..a little humour. From a Peter Sellers movie, he is being interviewed for a librarian's post in Wales.

Interviewer, "Name" ?

Sellers, " Idris Mordecai Gwylym Jenkin Llewellyn "

Interviewer "are oo Welsh" ?

[Jingthing]

Oh come on now, there is probably an Islamic Jihadist aspect in this mass murder event.

This will be a burden for Arabs and/or Muslim U.S. citizens as I'm sure over 99 percent of them could not be involved in such madness, but thanks to this couple of EVIL people, they're going to be facing a lot more suspicion and even discrimination in their daily lives.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Jingthing

[Pinot]

THIS IS A GUN CONTROL ISSUE!!! SHOUT IT FROM ON HIGH - THIS IS ALL ABOUT GUN CONTROL - Again and again and again...this is about GUNS!!!!

We don't have to tolerate the intolerable. Politicize every shooting. Ask politicians how they dare not do something to stop this. If there is ever going to be a tipping point on guns, it will happen when we say that disgusting acts are abetted by disgusting people with disgusting beliefs. I will only happen when we treat the disgusting people with the disgust they deserve.

Oh my Buddha

[Jingthing]

The couple of bozos was making BOMBS as well. Not terrorism, huh? Wanna buy the Brooklyn Bridge off me?

[Steely Dan]

I see leftist demagogues are having a hissy fit. It was Muslim terrorism get it. Had it not been guns it would have been bombs, knives or cars driven at pedestrians. The killer became 'more religious' in the two years prior to the attack, what other than the religion of peace gives you more violence as its followers become more religious?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/261001/neighbors-muslim-san-bernardino-terrorist-grew-daniel-greenfield

P.s Denial is a Egypt.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Steely Dan

[55Jay]

THIS IS A GUN CONTROL ISSUE!!! SHOUT IT FROM ON HIGH - THIS IS ALL ABOUT GUN CONTROL - Again and again and again...this is about GUNS!!!!

We don't have to tolerate the intolerable. Politicize every shooting. Ask politicians how they dare not do something to stop this. If there is ever going to be a tipping point on guns, it will happen when we say that disgusting acts are abetted by disgusting people with disgusting beliefs. I will only happen when we treat the disgusting people with the disgust they deserve.

Oh my Buddha

Act upon the rights of the majority of gun owners because of the actions of a minority.

But don't dare be unfair to the majority of Muslims because of the actions of a minority.

It's not a gun control issue, but guns are a component of the broader problem here.

[alanrchase]

Oh come on now, there is probably an Islamic Jihadist aspect in this mass murder event.

This will be a burden for Arabs and/or Muslim U.S. citizens as I'm sure over 99 percent of them could not be involved in such madness, but thanks to this couple of EVIL people, they're going to be facing a lot more suspicion and even discrimination in their daily lives.

You seem to have an anti Muslim agenda. Lived in the middle east for over 20 years. Dodgy people? Yes, one or two. Some really nice people? Yes. Have no respect for rampant religious views myself and all sects are guilty of it.

[stevenl]

I see leftist demagogues are having a hissy fit. It was Muslim terrorism get it. Had it not been guns it would have been bombs, knives or cars driven at pedestrians. The killer became 'more religious' in the two years prior to the attack, what other than the religion of peace gives you more violence as its followers become more religious?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/261001/neighbors-muslim-san-bernardino-terrorist-grew-daniel-greenfield

P.s Denial is a Egypt.

It was terrorism, and maybe muslim terrorism. I think better to wait and see, but that is not really the habit here on TV.

[smutcakes]

I just simply cannot fathom why so many Americans still seem to feel that their gun control laws are not a major factor in their very high incidence of gun crime, it simply defies belief why they want the right to carry so much, when it is so clear how much damage it is doing in their society. I just dont understand why someone needs to carry a gun, for what?

[55Jay]

Oh come on now, there is probably an Islamic Jihadist aspect in this mass murder event.

This will be a burden for Arabs and/or Muslim U.S. citizens as I'm sure over 99 percent of them could not be involved in such madness, but thanks to this couple of EVIL people, they're going to be facing a lot more suspicion and even discrimination in their daily lives.

You seem to have an anti Muslim agenda. Lived in the middle east for over 20 years. Dodgy people? Yes, one or two. Some really nice people? Yes. Have no respect for rampant religious views myself and all sects are guilty of it.

Except for the first speculative sentence, the comment is borne out by historical precident. If there's an anti-muslim aspect, it would be the folks who perpetrate what JT is referring to, not JT for pointing out the possibility they might.

[Jingthing]

I am not endorsing such discrimination and I also reject that such discrimination, which will likely increase, is an "excuse" for other Arab and/or Muslim Americans to follow their sick example.

[alanrchase]

Oh come on now, there is probably an Islamic Jihadist aspect in this mass murder event.

This will be a burden for Arabs and/or Muslim U.S. citizens as I'm sure over 99 percent of them could not be involved in such madness, but thanks to this couple of EVIL people, they're going to be facing a lot more suspicion and even discrimination in their daily lives.

You seem to have an anti Muslim agenda. Lived in the middle east for over 20 years. Dodgy people? Yes, one or two. Some really nice people? Yes. Have no respect for rampant religious views myself and all sects are guilty of it.

Except for the first speculative sentence, the comment is borne out by historical precident. If there's an anti-muslim aspect, it would be the folks who perpetrate what JT is referring to, not JT for pointing out the possibility they might.

Accepted but all religions are guilty of horrendous acts.

[dunroaming]

We are constantly told that Americans love their guns and consequently the carrying of them is what they choose to do. Well you get what you vote for. These mass killings are getting more and more common and will continue because the gun culture ain't going away anytime soon. We all played with toy guns when we were kids (at least I did) but then you grow up and move on. It seems in the US that most people don't grow up but just exchange the toy guns for real ones.

[MobileContent]

The guy had a Saudi woman. Saudi's are the most fanatics however I don't blame the woman for it as they are brain washed from small to obey their father, brothers and uncles.

The Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia is the most pervert one of all.

1) Woman's are second class citizens in their own country

2) Underage get a death sentence for demonstrating

3) Leaving Islam is a death sentence.

4) A woman that is raped has to proof with 4 male witnesses that she was raped otherwise she might be punished.

5) The Saudi's are sponsoring terrorists around the world.

Their are over a billion Muslims in the world and they can't get rid of a few people that hold the keys to the mosques in Medina and Makkah.

Their are millions of Muslims that think exactly the same as the Pakistani American did with his Saudi wife but only maybe 0.1% will actually do it.

[slipperylobster]

You know the meaning of the phrase 'time and time again'? You conveniently choose to omit that part from your answer.

So if they were illegaly supplied weapons you think its ok?

If legally supplied you think the checks and balances were enough?

It would seem obvious that these lunatics should not have accessbto guns one way or the other.

If people still think there should not be more controls then they no right to offer condolenses, they are part of the problem.

Not to forget this was the second mass shooting in the US today.

Only in the USA....??? wow.....I guess all that news I have been reading about terrorism and ISIS is not true. We are the only victims.

Thanks for pointing this out, and you are the first one to have said this. I am sure the grieving relatives in Paris would disagree with you....

and gun control never helped them a bit. Russia has it's own problems (bombing of aircraft and such)

a bit behind ..are you? If it is not a gun..it's a bomb or something else. I stand fast that this is not a gun control issue...it is a terrorist issue.

i did see that...it was written just before "only in the usa"...and that is what I have a problem with.

Terrorism is a world threat...not a threat to "only USA". Time and time again anywhere....any target...any people or nation opposed to their views. I suppose this thing is spreading into quite a few European countries as well. Even the "ever so reluctant" UK has just finished a bombing run. It is going to be a long time that anything gets settled (if ever)... Gun control in America is not going to help anyone....anywhere. I am all for it...but I don't see it as "the cure". Turning a world problem into an internal (US) problem is an agenda that is being pushed by either malaligned/misinformed individuals or propagandists. The USA could disappear...and the world would still have the same problems. People give us way too much credit.

What I don't agree with is how people try to mix one problem with another. So I will rephrase a bit. Gun control is an issue....but has nothing to do with solving a world threat, where organizations are actively recruiting people to do evil works. You don't necessarily need a gun to wreak havoc. I remember recently that people were being urged to stab any jewish person they could possibly approach.

If this man and wife had no weapon, I am sure their agenda would include bombing or other tactics. As this was obviously "pre-planned", I am sure they would have "acquired" a weapon and followed through, in spite of any gun legislation.....same as in Paris.

[smutcakes]

We are constantly told that Americans love their guns and consequently the carrying of them is what they choose to do. Well you get what you vote for. These mass killings are getting more and more common and will continue because the gun culture ain't going away anytime soon. We all played with toy guns when we were kids (at least I did) but then you grow up and move on. It seems in the US that most people don't grow up but just exchange the toy guns for real ones.

I agree, in theory i see people saying that if they were in a certain situation etc they would be armed and the outcome would be different. Sadly i think the vast majority would in the event of being caught in a gun related attack would crap their pants, panic and probably start firing wildly at anything that moved. They would of course if not already dead from the original shooting, draw attention to themselves and probably end up with them and their families dead very quickly.

To many have a go heros who have no idea what it is like in a live attack with multiple assialants, automatic fire, grenades and body parts flying.

[alanrchase]

The guy had a Saudi woman. Saudi's are the most fanatics however I don't blame the woman for it as they are brain washed from small to obey their father, brothers and uncles.

The Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia is the most pervert one of all.

1) Woman's are second class citizens in their own country

2) Underage get a death sentence for demonstrating

3) Leaving Islam is a death sentence.

4) A woman that is raped has to proof with 4 male witnesses that she was raped otherwise she might be punished.

5) The Saudi's are sponsoring terrorists around the world.

Their are over a billion Muslims in the world and they can't get rid of a few people that hold the keys to the mosques in Medina and Makkah.

Their are millions of Muslims that think exactly the same as the Pakistani American did with his Saudi wife but only maybe 0.1% will actually do it.

You have no idea.

[JemJem]

It hasn't been confirmed yet, but I think there is quite a high chance that this was Islamist terrorism.

And, guess what. This incident will be used by Donald Trump shortly, to his advantage.

Edited December 3, 2015 by JemJem

[MobileContent]

The guy had a Saudi woman. Saudi's are the most fanatics however I don't blame the woman for it as they are brain washed from small to obey their father, brothers and uncles.

The Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia is the most pervert one of all.

1) Woman's are second class citizens in their own country

2) Underage get a death sentence for demonstrating

3) Leaving Islam is a death sentence.

4) A woman that is raped has to proof with 4 male witnesses that she was raped otherwise she might be punished.

5) The Saudi's are sponsoring terrorists around the world.

Their are over a billion Muslims in the world and they can't get rid of a few people that hold the keys to the mosques in Medina and Makkah.

Their are millions of Muslims that think exactly the same as the Pakistani American did with his Saudi wife but only maybe 0.1% will actually do it.

You have no idea.

I was a Muslim for 16 years and even performed Umrah and the Hajj plus I lived two years in Peshawar, Pakistan. I have seen worse things as happen today in the US and my points from 1 - 5 was only pointed towards Saudi Arabia.

Answer this question?

1) Can a Saudi woman drive a car inside Saudi Arabia and why does she need a guardian such as her husband or son to go even outside of the home.

2) Doesn't Saudi Arabia want to soon execute a Shia boy because he demonstrated against the Saudi Monarchy when he was under aged.

3) Doesn't Saudi Arabia executes Muslim that leave Islam? I should know as I left Islam.

4) Doesn't Sharia law says that 4 male witnesses are required to accuse a men of rape.

5) Doesn't Saudi Arabia sponsor terrorism?

You have actually no idea.

[55Jay]

Oh come on now, there is probably an Islamic Jihadist aspect in this mass murder event.

This will be a burden for Arabs and/or Muslim U.S. citizens as I'm sure over 99 percent of them could not be involved in such madness, but thanks to this couple of EVIL people, they're going to be facing a lot more suspicion and even discrimination in their daily lives.

You seem to have an anti Muslim agenda. Lived in the middle east for over 20 years. Dodgy people? Yes, one or two. Some really nice people? Yes. Have no respect for rampant religious views myself and all sects are guilty of it.

Except for the first speculative sentence, the comment is borne out by historical precident. If there's an anti-muslim aspect, it would be the folks who perpetrate what JT is referring to, not JT for pointing out the possibility they might.

Accepted but all religions are guilty of horrendous acts.

No argument there, but that's another kettle of fish.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Starting to look like possible Islamic terrorism attack...all religious belief is corrosive to civilization.

[BKResort]

Just was reported that the shooting happens on the company Chritsmas celebration, where one of the shooters had an altercation with somebody, and left the party very upset. He was back in 20 minutes, with 2 more people, and all armed. It is a surprise that only 14 were killed. This shooter is now named, and it is a very religious Muslim according with his father declaration. In my opinion this is worst than a terrorist attack.....Will creates bad feelings about the Muslim community in the US.....and retaliation from local national extremist groups....

Anything can happens in the US now......and on the next election...because probably Trump will the Republican Party nominated candidate, and he is an extemist too....

Edited December 3, 2015 by BKResort

[Jingthing]

It's a very unusual case indeed because at first glance appears to be a mix of disgruntled workplace violence and Islamist Jihad. The back story about how well liked the worker was will make it even worse as far as fomenting Islamophobic discrimination. Is it fair? Well, of course not. But the reality is that American Muslims are a small minority group and cases like this get amplified in ways that wouldn't happen if the murderers/terrorists were not from a minority group.

I have to agree with the comment that this incident will add fuel to the unfortunate success of the Trump campaign, even if he refrains from commenting about it, and what are the chances of that?

Ironic perhaps to some is that the strongest allies that American Muslims have in fighting unfair Islamophobic discrimination are mostly liberal American Jews.

The sins of a minority of your community cannot justify blanket discrimination against everyone in that minority group. On the other hand, bending over backwards to be "PC" when the clues of preparation for terrorism are there (as they were in this case) can have tragic consequences. It's an awkward balance.

At least in the short term, expect a large spike in false alarm calls to police, and the innocent people being reported will feel unfairly put upon. Hard to win on this one.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Jingthing

[MobileContent]

Oh come on now, there is probably an Islamic Jihadist aspect in this mass murder event.

This will be a burden for Arabs and/or Muslim U.S. citizens as I'm sure over 99 percent of them could not be involved in such madness, but thanks to this couple of EVIL people, they're going to be facing a lot more suspicion and even discrimination in their daily lives.

You seem to have an anti Muslim agenda. Lived in the middle east for over 20 years. Dodgy people? Yes, one or two. Some really nice people? Yes. Have no respect for rampant religious views myself and all sects are guilty of it.

So are you a Muslim? If not you can live 20 years in the Middle East and still do not know what it going on. I lived and worked in the UAE but stayed always with an old friend of mine during my years as a Muslim but it was in Sharjah which is different as Dubai or Abu Dhabi.

Even in Saudi Arabia I never stayed in the expat ghettos but with my Saudi friends. What the royals talk openly to the world community is the opposite of what they actually do.

[jacky54]

Apparently he was a US born citizen who was normal in every way till he fell in love with a Saudi girl on the internet, went over married and brought her back into the USA. Maybe forced to do this by her..

Or more likely, as the killer of Lee Rigby screamed on the street, 'the Koran made us do it'

[alanrchase]

The guy had a Saudi woman. Saudi's are the most fanatics however I don't blame the woman for it as they are brain washed from small to obey their father, brothers and uncles.

The Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia is the most pervert one of all.

1) Woman's are second class citizens in their own country

2) Underage get a death sentence for demonstrating

3) Leaving Islam is a death sentence.

4) A woman that is raped has to proof with 4 male witnesses that she was raped otherwise she might be punished.

5) The Saudi's are sponsoring terrorists around the world.

Their are over a billion Muslims in the world and they can't get rid of a few people that hold the keys to the mosques in Medina and Makkah.

Their are millions of Muslims that think exactly the same as the Pakistani American did with his Saudi wife but only maybe 0.1% will actually do it.

You have no idea.

I was a Muslim for 16 years and even performed Umrah and the Hajj plus I lived two years in Peshawar, Pakistan. I have seen worse things as happen today in the US and my points from 1 - 5 was only pointed towards Saudi Arabia.

Answer this question?

1) Can a Saudi woman drive a car inside Saudi Arabia and why does she need a guardian such as her husband or son to go even outside of the home.

2) Doesn't Saudi Arabia want to soon execute a Shia boy because he demonstrated against the Saudi Monarchy when he was under aged.

3) Doesn't Saudi Arabia executes Muslim that leave Islam? I should know as I left Islam.

4) Doesn't Sharia law says that 4 male witnesses are required to accuse a men of rape.

5) Doesn't Saudi Arabia sponsor terrorism?

You have actually no idea.

A Saudi woman can drive a car, but generally not in Saudi. You converted, was the grass not as green as you thought? Yes they have some laws that seem oppressive in the rightious west., I would agree. Execution? British myself so could call America barbaric for having the death penalty.

[55Jay]

We are constantly told that Americans love their guns and consequently the carrying of them is what they choose to do. Well you get what you vote for. These mass killings are getting more and more common and will continue because the gun culture ain't going away anytime soon. We all played with toy guns when we were kids (at least I did) but then you grow up and move on. It seems in the US that most people don't grow up but just exchange the toy guns for real ones.

We - who is "we"?

Who - Who is saying that Americans love their guns and so they carry them?

I know many Americans, I even lived there, your comment doesn't hold water.

[alanrchase]

Oh come on now, there is probably an Islamic Jihadist aspect in this mass murder event.
This will be a burden for Arabs and/or Muslim U.S. citizens as I'm sure over 99 percent of them could not be involved in such madness, but thanks to this couple of EVIL people, they're going to be facing a lot more suspicion and even discrimination in their daily lives.

You seem to have an anti Muslim agenda. Lived in the middle east for over 20 years. Dodgy people? Yes, one or two. Some really nice people? Yes. Have no respect for rampant religious views myself and all sects are guilty of it.

Except for the first speculative sentence, the comment is borne out by historical precident. If there's an anti-muslim aspect, it would be the folks who perpetrate what JT is referring to, not JT for pointing out the possibility they might.

Accepted but all religions are guilty of horrendous acts.

No argument there, but that's another kettle of fish.

It is not another kettle of fish, it is what it is.