France shuts down three mosques and four Muslim prayer rooms

[Linky]

Unfortunately the UK is too gutless to follow France's good example, all we get are promises. After the London bus bombs Blair promised to deport hate preachers, close down radical mosques and root out extremism, we are still waiting on that! France realised now that Islam is at war with the west, other countries need to follow with actions not words. Close hate mosques and brain washing madrasas Schools, ban the burka, no tolerance of Sharia courts and no more Islamic immigration.

Islam is not at war with anyone. I dont expect you to understand many non islamic muslims live quite happily in muslim countries as non muslims.

But dont let facts get in the way of bigotry.

Islam has killed 250 million in the past 1400 years, the Koran has 109 verses giving the green light to violence, Islam was spread by the sword. The founder of Islam was a war lord who was responsible for 65 raids and wars. Islam preaches division, hatred towards non believers and death for gays and apostates. The non Islamic Muslims are not the problem, the problem is the rest of them who take Islam seriously.

It is obvious you have no idea about what islam is. What religion did you get your hatred from, your division? Edited December 3, 2015 by Linky

[Dustdevil]

Took them long enough to wake up.

Now I hope MERKEL has the balls to do the same.

But I doubt it.

The Mosques in Germany are not really of a problem but Salafist in Germany are actually preaching on the streets and run complete neighborhoods. We even have a Sharia force in some parts of Germany that tell Muslims how to behave, not drink alcohol, dating German womans or guys. Those guys are more dangerous.

What Merkel should do is cancel those citizenships and send the <SNIPS> back to from where they came.

Germany has many mosques run by the Shia's and Sufi's and they well integrate but the problems are the Sunni's in Europe.

I've seen TV reports of Sharia patrols in some parts of London actually telling local British women how to dress.

[Happy Grumpy]

Good just a few thousand more to go

Time to stop allowing any mosques to be built in any western country TRY BUILDING church in Saudi Arabia see how far you get but they want to spread like a bad rash

Why did you choose Saudi Arabia?

Indonesia is the most populated Islamic country on Earth.

And they have over 60,000 Christian churches in their country.

In fact, over 60% of Muslims live in South and Sout-East Asia.

Perhaps you are just ignorant and easily misled? A not too-bright bigot, perhaps?

Edited December 3, 2015 by Happy Grumpy

[NeverSure]

Declare Islam illegal. Convert or go. If French loose the citizenship.

Read what happened in the Roman Empire. It is exactly what happens in Europe now.

What's happening in Europe reminds me exactly of how the Roman Empire fell.

[Walter Travolta]

Unfortunately the UK is too gutless to follow France's good example, all we get are promises. After the London bus bombs Blair promised to deport hate preachers, close down radical mosques and root out extremism, we are still waiting on that! France realised now that Islam is at war with the west, other countries need to follow with actions not words. Close hate mosques and brain washing madrasas Schools, ban the burka, no tolerance of Sharia courts and no more Islamic immigration.

I think Cameron will be strong in this war on terror now that Frnace has started to make moves.

It was always going to take something like the Paris attacks for 1 nation to say "f%#k this" and others always follow. I dont think any nation wanted to set the ball in motion for fear of being labelled right wing, but France had no option, and France's allies really have no option now, simply because they are her allies!

I do wander though, if these attacks would have happened in London, if Cameron would have reacted in the same way as Hollande? Begs the same question if it had happened in NY or WDC would Obama have reacted? Or just told everyone to stay calm, we have it under control blah blah blah.

I for one think this newsreel is an important step in breaking up these comfortable little soiree's held all over Europe.

As they say, from little acorns grow big oak trees.

Daesh can be defeated and WILL be defeated. Hitler was at it for years before the start of WW2 but no-one did anything until it became a very real threat. Dont get me wrong, I have thought for yrs that this would become a real threat, but only now have the Ivory Towers brigade realised that.

This will just be the start and many more mosques will be closed and the terrorists will not be disperesed all over the place like some posters have said (Linky again!!) but will obviously concentrate them into another area/mosque. Its much harder to spy on 40.000 individuals all over a country than it is to spy on the same 40.000 concentrated into a specific area.

In the UK, we still have a law that you can be hanged for treason, this law should be realised and if Cameron made that move, Im sure that would be a feather in his cap?

[arjunadawn]

It's time for tolerant people to become intolerant of intolerance.

Great point!

Actually, this phenomena has been touched on in some threads too. Why is it then when people have enough of intolerance and stand up to the intolerant they are called intolerant? This is an example of thought policing; how society/media/NGOs/Special Interest groups leverage people into biases/guilt they do or do not have by labeling, alienation, ostracizing them, ridiculing them, calling them islamophobes, etc. The goal is social engineering or compliance with social prescriptions- multiculturalism.

If liberal France is shutting mosques and prayer rooms I think it is a first glance fair observation that it was likely needed. There will be zero possibility of saving existing forms of governments in Europe unless the first steps are begun. Whatever these first steps ought to be is irrelevant. There is no prescription to target this sickness that is not going to be met with a storm of protests, unrest, resistance, repackaging, victimization, and counter attacks. No plan! Nothing, would be acceptable to reverse or halt the islamization of France.

Any and all first steps to tackle the issue will be met with resistance for one very good reason: Underlying the status quo is still the operating presumption that "islamic..." anything... is not the problem. The West defines "islamic jihad" as a terrorist legal issue alone, especially the US under Obama. This institutional blind-spot has the US and Europe defining the threat of islamic jihad without remotely establishing the premise- bank robbers do it because of money. Car robbers want cars. Boat robbers want a boat. Rapists want... Etc. But to the Western governments islamic terrorists are because of... "climate change," "not enough jobs (see jobs for jihad youtube), and other harebrained explanations; always implausibly offering any motive that makes sense. Why? Because it is fantasy.

This lack of a governing premise behind islamic jihad/terrorism does not remotely lend to the deduction that a mosque or prayer center should be shut down for any reason. You cannot get from an absent premise (no islam) to a practical deduction (islamic mosques) because the West does not except the premise that islam has a role to play in evolving jihad terror. More importantly, the larger muslim world is further insulated from accountability or even self policing because they equally have it inculcated into them that islamic jihad is not islamic after all. Muslims in general, like most human beings know exactly where islamic jihad comes from; none of us are idiots. The disconnect is dizzying for all of us but this will make the larger muslim community rail against its beds being turned,houses watched, mosques closed, and travel monitored because the West has purged any islamic premise from its institutional memory.

[Walter Travolta]

Unfortunately the UK is too gutless to follow France's good example, all we get are promises. After the London bus bombs Blair promised to deport hate preachers, close down radical mosques and root out extremism, we are still waiting on that! France realised now that Islam is at war with the west, other countries need to follow with actions not words. Close hate mosques and brain washing madrasas Schools, ban the burka, no tolerance of Sharia courts and no more Islamic immigration.

Islam is not at war with anyone. I dont expect you to understand many non islamic muslims live quite happily in muslim countries as non muslims.

But dont let facts get in the way of bigotry.

Islam has killed 250 million in the past 1400 years, the Koran has 109 verses giving the green light to violence, Islam was spread by the sword. The founder of Islam was a war lord who was responsible for 65 raids and wars. Islam preaches division, hatred towards non believers and death for gays and apostates. The non Islamic Muslims are not the problem, the problem is the rest of them who take Islam seriously.

It is obvious you have no idea about what islam is. What religion did you get your hatred from, your division?

Maybe this will help you change your muslim coloured spectacles for a pair you can actually see through?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3343309/At-TWENTY-people-gunned-California-mass-shooting-police-search-three-suspects.html

[Linky]

Unfortunately the UK is too gutless to follow France's good example, all we get are promises. After the London bus bombs Blair promised to deport hate preachers, close down radical mosques and root out extremism, we are still waiting on that! France realised now that Islam is at war with the west, other countries need to follow with actions not words. Close hate mosques and brain washing madrasas Schools, ban the burka, no tolerance of Sharia courts and no more Islamic immigration.

Islam is not at war with anyone. I dont expect you to understand many non islamic muslims live quite happily in muslim countries as non muslims.

But dont let facts get in the way of bigotry.

Islam has killed 250 million in the past 1400 years, the Koran has 109 verses giving the green light to violence, Islam was spread by the sword. The founder of Islam was a war lord who was responsible for 65 raids and wars. Islam preaches division, hatred towards non believers and death for gays and apostates. The non Islamic Muslims are not the problem, the problem is the rest of them who take Islam seriously.

It is obvious you have no idea about what islam is. What religion did you get your hatred from, your division?

Maybe this will help you change your muslim coloured spectacles for a pair you can actually see through?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3343309/At-TWENTY-people-gunned-California-mass-shooting-police-search-three-suspects.html

How would a couple of people that dont follow islam change my mind?

When a christian shoots up a clinic do you blame all christians?

[Scott]

Inflammatory post removed.

[NoshowJones]

Why shut down the mosques, that wont do anything. Need to shut down the people spreading the hatred instead.

Shutting down a mosque just means they can spread the hatred in another place.

These other places can be shut down too, along with the hate preachers.

No, they will always find a way to preach hate. Go to the hater and get rid of him.

No point shutting down all churches because a few are lunatics.

"Go to the hater and get rid of him". In the UK there is far too many of them. Do what France is doing start shutting down Mosques

and ban the burkha.

[Happy Grumpy]

It's time for tolerant people to become intolerant of intolerance.

Sounds like a slogan from Munich circa 1936.

[CMNightRider]

Unfortunately the UK is too gutless to follow France's good example, all we get are promises. After the London bus bombs Blair promised to deport hate preachers, close down radical mosques and root out extremism, we are still waiting on that! France realised now that Islam is at war with the west, other countries need to follow with actions not words. Close hate mosques and brain washing madrasas Schools, ban the burka, no tolerance of Sharia courts and no more Islamic immigration.

Islam is not at war with anyone. I dont expect you to understand many non islamic muslims live quite happily in muslim countries as non muslims.

But dont let facts get in the way of bigotry.

Islam is not at war with anyone???? Muslim leaders and regimes have come and gone, but Islam has remained steadfastly at war with the non-Muslim world for 1400 years. This is fact not bigotry.

[KarenBravo]

It's time for tolerant people to become intolerant of intolerance.

Sounds like a slogan from Munich circa 1936.

Try reading my statement slowly........then, you might understand it.

[MobileContent]

Took them long enough to wake up.

Now I hope MERKEL has the balls to do the same.

But I doubt it.

The Mosques in Germany are not really of a problem but Salafist in Germany are actually preaching on the streets and run complete neighborhoods. We even have a Sharia force in some parts of Germany that tell Muslims how to behave, not drink alcohol, dating German womans or guys. Those guys are more dangerous.

What Merkel should do is cancel those citizenships and send the <SNIPS> back to from where they came.

Germany has many mosques run by the Shia's and Sufi's and they well integrate but the problems are the Sunni's in Europe.

I've seen TV reports of Sharia patrols in some parts of London actually telling local British women how to dress.

We have them as well in Germany but they were promptly arrested by the police.

Many of my Muslim friends in Berlin have also been harassed because they don't have a beard, smoke American cigarettes and love to have a beer or two at a cafe outside.

The German government says their are around 1200 salafists in Germany that could pose a danger to Germany but in Berlin Neukoelln alone I have counted at least 70-80 in just one afternoon after prayers. My favorite drinking spot is next to a small mosque run by Arabs. Even the Turks are not permitted to enter the mosque

[Ghostnigel]

Stupid thing to do. A mosque is just a building. The Imam will find another place to preach (a private house or rent a hall somewhere). It will simply antagonise moderate muslims.

French government have just done this to demonstrate they are 'doing something'.

France has a huge problem with large numbers of angry and disaffected unemployed young French-born muslims. The French government have (unwisely IMHO) agreed to take more muslim refugees when they can't handle the problems they already have. I think what we have seen so far is just the beginning.....

My bold.

Watch the video from about 3 minutes on (the music will drive you nuts). According to this muslim and the 100 or so people he is speaking to, there is no such thing as a moderate muslim, nor are there radical muslims, they are all the same. Watch and listen and realise why we are all going to hell in a handbasket in Europe!

And thats just the moderate ones, oh my god.....what are the radical ones thinking then?

To be honest, i don't really care what muslims think in muslim countries, but i do care about what are trying to achieve (Sharia Law) in western countries....

Why should this be forced onto us? Why should we be racist because we oppose Islam, and sharia law?

They should take there religious beliefs back to where it came from, and do whatever they like with it.

[Ghostnigel]

Unfortunately the UK is too gutless to follow France's good example, all we get are promises. After the London bus bombs Blair promised to deport hate preachers, close down radical mosques and root out extremism, we are still waiting on that! France realised now that Islam is at war with the west, other countries need to follow with actions not words. Close hate mosques and brain washing madrasas Schools, ban the burka, no tolerance of Sharia courts and no more Islamic immigration.

Islam is not at war with anyone. I dont expect you to understand many non islamic muslims live quite happily in muslim countries as non muslims.

But dont let facts get in the way of bigotry.

Using the bigot and racist card is soooo yesterday.....

You should try watching the video on post #47 mate....all of them there are 'moderate' muslims...

Why is it right for us to have to accept their laws in western society? Your views are what got us in this mess in the first place.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Ghostnigel

[55Jay]

^ OMG!

Well, maybe not that surprising. Just the small core here on TVF (we know their avatar names) but the vast majority of the regular people from the UK I meet and hang around, feel the same way.

Edited December 4, 2015 by 55Jay

[Linky]

Unfortunately the UK is too gutless to follow France's good example, all we get are promises. After the London bus bombs Blair promised to deport hate preachers, close down radical mosques and root out extremism, we are still waiting on that! France realised now that Islam is at war with the west, other countries need to follow with actions not words. Close hate mosques and brain washing madrasas Schools, ban the burka, no tolerance of Sharia courts and no more Islamic immigration.

Islam is not at war with anyone. I dont expect you to understand many non islamic muslims live quite happily in muslim countries as non muslims.

But dont let facts get in the way of bigotry.

Using the bigot and racist card is soooo yesterday.....

You should try watching the video on post #47 mate....all of them there are 'moderate' muslims...

Why is it right for us to have to accept their laws in western society? Your views are what got us in this mess in the first place.

You shouldnt have to abide by their laws in your own country. Inhave never said anyone should have to do that.

Most muslim countries also do not expect foreigners to live by sharia law either.

Those wanting sharia law are not moderates. Moderates dont care how you live your life as long as they can live their lives, thats the way it is in most muslim countries. They do allow non muslims to drink, eat pork, attend church if you wish.

If the video showed moderates then how is it foreigners can live happily in muslim countries?

[Ghostnigel]

Unfortunately the UK is too gutless to follow France's good example, all we get are promises. After the London bus bombs Blair promised to deport hate preachers, close down radical mosques and root out extremism, we are still waiting on that! France realised now that Islam is at war with the west, other countries need to follow with actions not words. Close hate mosques and brain washing madrasas Schools, ban the burka, no tolerance of Sharia courts and no more Islamic immigration.

Islam is not at war with anyone. I dont expect you to understand many non islamic muslims live quite happily in muslim countries as non muslims.

But dont let facts get in the way of bigotry.

Using the bigot and racist card is soooo yesterday.....

You should try watching the video on post #47 mate....all of them there are 'moderate' muslims...

Why is it right for us to have to accept their laws in western society? Your views are what got us in this mess in the first place.

You shouldnt have to abide by their laws in your own country. Inhave never said anyone should have to do that.

Most muslim countries also do not expect foreigners to live by sharia law either.

Those wanting sharia law are not moderates. Moderates dont care how you live your life as long as they can live their lives, thats the way it is in most muslim countries. They do allow non muslims to drink, eat pork, attend church if you wish.

If the video showed moderates then how is it foreigners can live happily in muslim countries?

Did you watch all of the video? Did you listen to the questions, and see the response to the questions?

As of your other remarks, lets just say, I beg to differ....they already have sharia law zones in London, and probably a lot of other places...my niece and her boyfriend was threatened with violence, because she was wearing western clothes in her own neighbourhood. Is that being racist or a bigot?

I would say the muslims were being racist against them, but thats ok then?

Its settled then, I am a racist bigot, and you are muslim sympathiser....have a nice day.

[KarenBravo]

Muslims make up 4% of the population in the UK.

If they keep on as they are, there will be an almighty backlash which innocent muslims will get caught up in.

Western societies have paid in blood over the centuries for the rights of free-speech and equality before the law.

They won't give them up without a fight.

Question. Why do muslims emigrate to the West? Why don't they go to other muslim countries?

Because most other muslim countries are economically mismanaged and authoritarian.

[Linky]

Unfortunately the UK is too gutless to follow France's good example, all we get are promises. After the London bus bombs Blair promised to deport hate preachers, close down radical mosques and root out extremism, we are still waiting on that! France realised now that Islam is at war with the west, other countries need to follow with actions not words. Close hate mosques and brain washing madrasas Schools, ban the burka, no tolerance of Sharia courts and no more Islamic immigration.

Islam is not at war with anyone. I dont expect you to understand many non islamic muslims live quite happily in muslim countries as non muslims.

But dont let facts get in the way of bigotry.

Using the bigot and racist card is soooo yesterday.....

You should try watching the video on post #47 mate....all of them there are 'moderate' muslims...

Why is it right for us to have to accept their laws in western society? Your views are what got us in this mess in the first place.

You shouldnt have to abide by their laws in your own country. Inhave never said anyone should have to do that.

Most muslim countries also do not expect foreigners to live by sharia law either.

Those wanting sharia law are not moderates. Moderates dont care how you live your life as long as they can live their lives, thats the way it is in most muslim countries. They do allow non muslims to drink, eat pork, attend church if you wish.

If the video showed moderates then how is it foreigners can live happily in muslim countries?

Did you watch all of the video? Did you listen to the questions, and see the response to the questions?

As of your other remarks, lets just say, I beg to differ....they already have sharia law zones in London, and probably a lot of other places...my niece and her boyfriend was threatened with violence, because she was wearing western clothes in her own neighbourhood. Is that being racist or a bigot?

I would say the muslims were being racist against them, but thats ok then?

Its settled then, I am a racist bigot, and you are muslim sympathiser....have a nice day.

Where have i ever said that its ok for muslims to intimidate or enforce radical views onto others.

I agree with you that it is wrong. So for that i do not think anyone is a racist or a bigot. And yes i consider those muslims to be radicals racists and bigots. They also do not follow islam, no matter what they claim.

What i consider to be racist and bigotted is to say all those that follow islam are like that, or all muslims agree with them. That is a blatant lie. Those radicals are a very small minority and predominatel from arab countries. There are many more followers of islam in countries outside the middle east where you dont have those issues, where muslims and non muslims live happily together. The muslims in those countries hate the radicals as much as non muslims and are fighting them.

It is bigotted and racist to consider muslims as a whole agree with them when the facts are they simply dont.

[Linky]

Muslims make up 4% of the population in the UK.

If they keep on as they are, there will be an almighty backlash which innocent muslims will get caught up in.

Western societies have paid in blood over the centuries for the rights of free-speech and equality before the law.

They won't give them up without a fight.

Question. Why do muslims emigrate to the West? Why don't they go to other muslim countries?

Because most other muslim countries are economically mismanaged and authoritarian.

Noooooooooooo freebies, nooooooooooooooo healthcare, noooooooooooooooooo nufink.

And no western countries making excuses to bomb them. The major crisis of refugees is not of their own making.

[jacky54]

What i consider to be racist and bigotted is to say all those that follow islam are like that, or all muslims agree with them. That is a blatant lie.

Islam is an ideology not race, it has sheep from all races as followers. All Muslims are not the same in the extent of their beliefs or actions, but ISLAM is always the same- pure evil

Edited December 4, 2015 by jacky54

[Ghostnigel]

Linky, to be honest, i wouldn't have any problem with muslims if they would only 'play' with their sharia laws, and worship their quran in a muslim state, and can do it as much as they want.

But what i do disapprove of, is they come to the west, and bring all their sharia shit with them. and then want to change it to be like a middle east country.....by dictating to westerners how we should act in our own countries. No other race does that.

I have never had a problem with other races, such as Indians or Black people, or even jews, (never met one though).

But i just cannot, for the life of me, accept the way muslims try and take over everywhere they go...i cannot just say, "hey, i suddenly like muslims", because i don't, and i can't, and i won't, thats me, sorry.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Ghostnigel

[Linky]

Ghostnigel.

I totally agree with you. Musl8ms should do more, and be seen to do more. I can understand some of the oldies struggling to fit in but it seems they do better at it than some younger ones.

I am not expected to assimilate or fit in here in malaysia but i make an effort. It is appreciated and it is always nice to be welcomed for doing so. It is easier for me as i dont need to learn a new language.

But radicals just will not. They are what they are, radical extremists and I have no sympathy for them.

But your post is spot on. I agree. I think in the circumstances you have every reason to dislike muslims as a whole because of what is happening. I am seeing it from malaysia and know many many muslims that are completely opposite to those radicals.

So we are seeing the issues from different perspectives and where we live.

Respect to you for your views as they are formed by your experience.

Edit. Why apologise for views based on fact and actual experience. I may have same view if had same experience. It is what it is so no problem.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Linky

[simple1]

they already have sharia law zones in London

There were some in East London who tried to enforce Sharia law zones, but were arrested by police and prosecuted; an example...

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/459782/Muslim-Patrol-handed-Asbos-banning-Sharia-Law-promotion-or-meeting-Anjem-Choudary

One of the favourites of some people, Daniel Pipes, had this to say about France.

"Having this first-hand experience, I regret having called these areas no-go zones."

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/nogozones.asp

Edited December 4, 2015 by simple1

[seedy]

One Troll / Flaming post removed

[Ghostnigel]

they already have sharia law zones in London

There some in East London who tried to enforce Sharia law zones, but were arrested by police and prosecuted; an example...

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/459782/Muslim-Patrol-handed-Asbos-banning-Sharia-Law-promotion-or-meeting-Anjem-Choudary

One of the favourites of some people, Daniel Pipes, had this to say about France.

"Having this first-hand experience, I regret having called these areas no-go zones."

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/nogozones.asp

Such lovely people....

[arjunadawn]

Unfortunately the UK is too gutless to follow France's good example, all we get are promises. After the London bus bombs Blair promised to deport hate preachers, close down radical mosques and root out extremism, we are still waiting on that! France realised now that Islam is at war with the west, other countries need to follow with actions not words. Close hate mosques and brain washing madrasas Schools, ban the burka, no tolerance of Sharia courts and no more Islamic immigration.

Islam is not at war with anyone. I dont expect you to understand many non islamic muslims live quite happily in muslim countries as non muslims.

But dont let facts get in the way of bigotry.

Using the bigot and racist card is soooo yesterday.....

You should try watching the video on post #47 mate....all of them there are 'moderate' muslims...

Why is it right for us to have to accept their laws in western society? Your views are what got us in this mess in the first place.

You shouldnt have to abide by their laws in your own country. Inhave never said anyone should have to do that.

Most muslim countries also do not expect foreigners to live by sharia law either.

Those wanting sharia law are not moderates. Moderates dont care how you live your life as long as they can live their lives, thats the way it is in most muslim countries. They do allow non muslims to drink, eat pork, attend church if you wish.

If the video showed moderates then how is it foreigners can live happily in muslim countries?

This is incorrect. Most islamic countries do in fact have varying degrees of sharia at the bedrock and irrespective of knowing where the source of the law comes from they expect you to abide by their laws- "live by." These even laws will often have their origin in sharia; it could hardly be otherwise. Whether it is holding hands and kissing in Dubai, the risque choice to wear various clothes to a beach in Abu Dhabi, being alone in a car with a woman not veiled in Saana, or perhaps out after 8pm with a woman outside Rawalpindi. Depending on where you are there are also laws on the books with a basis in sharia that are variously applied to foreigners equally, thus when locals rise up and protest they are actually enforcing laws on the books, many with threads in sharia such as Indonesia 97/98, Indonesia- Aceh Darasalam. Sharia does not permit beneficial laws to non muslims accommodating cultural diversity. In fact, sharia and hijra are predicated upon the sharia remaining steadfast in the face of other cultural pressures or changing boundaries.The list goes on, just wander through the OIC list. This does not make an overwhelming point because there are some places where muslim countries more or less do not "expect" foreigners to live by sharia law, but is not true that "Most muslim countries..."

There are many examples where drinking water during Ramaden was, is, might be... what is it now? tolerated in different countries. It changes variously because the separation between what is permissible and what is on the books varies. But recourse back the sharia by locals has frequently resulted in dead people who yesterday had it acceptable to sell or drink or breath during the day during Ramadan. This is true from Indo-97, Pakistan, etc, etc. It changes all the time because refuge is taken by the locals in the sharia and secular law or not, applied to foreigners/non-muslims.

Islamic countries do variously accommodate westerners but always at a risk and always with a trade off- can the benefits of western interaction be realized before the oppression of our sharia once again snuffs out arts, science, inquiry, discourse, novelty, and curiosity from yet again another culture?" This is the rock that is constantly being rolled up hill by various muslim rulers.