Chinese tourist death sparks dive industry safety shake-up

[webfact]

Chinese tourist death sparks dive industry safety shake-up
The Phuket News


Santi Pawai (right), Director of the Ministry of Tourism and Sports Phuket office, confirmed that Phuket William Diving Co Ltd was a fully legally registered company.

PHUKET: -- Dive operators in Phuket will be required to ensure that every tourist diver has a medical certificate approving them to dive as part of new safety measures to be rolled out after the death of Chinese tourist Zhang Lin north of Phuket last Saturday (Nov 28).

Failure to do so may result in their company registration being struck off, Santi Pawai, Director of the Ministry of Tourism and Sports Phuket office, told The Phuket News this week.

Other measures include yet another crackdown sweeping through the island’s dive industry to ensure all operators were legal, he warned.

Mr Santi revealed the new measures to be introduced after meeting on Monday (Nov 30) with representatives from Phuket William Diving, the Patong-based dive tour operator that Ms Zhang, 23, was with.

Mr Santi called the Phuket William representatives to answer how Ms Zhang came to be separated from her dive group, which reportedly included two advanced divers, one divemaster and one instructor.

Ms Zhang’s body was found alone at a depth of nearly 12 metres by another dive tour group. Her dive computer showed that she had been underwater only 26 minutes. The divers brought Ms Zhang’s body onto their own dive boat and attempted to revive her, as the MV Peterpan had reportedly moved away from the dive site.

Full story: http://www.thephuketnews.com/chinese-tourist-death-sparks-dive-industry-safety-shake-up-55248.php


-- Phuket News 2015-12-04

[LivinginKata]

I am astonished that this is not already a diving requirement. A valid medical certicate should be standard.

[stevenl]

I am astonished that this is not already a diving requirement. A valid medical certicate should be standard.

For courses self statement is required. This is SOP in many, many countries. But that is by the diving agencies, legal requirements exist nearly nowhere.

I also think that is not what he means.

Edited December 4, 2015 by stevenl

[BigBadGeordie]

I am astonished that this is not already a diving requirement. A valid medical certicate should be standard.

You mean like the one you have to get for your driving license!

"Hello, how are you today?"

"Fine, thanks."

"Good, that will be 100 Baht, here's your certificate."

[Cloggie]

In the 'old days' I sent the messenger to the doctor to get me a medical certificate.....

[steveyinasia]

how about checking that all those that have left the boat actually have returned, it cannot be that hard can it? Not being a diver, I fail to understand how such a simple check is not implemented every trip.

[stevenl]

how about checking that all those that have left the boat actually have returned, it cannot be that hard can it? Not being a diver, I fail to understand how such a simple check is not implemented every trip.

It is SOP.

[Tom Cahill]

I am astonished that this is not already a diving requirement. A valid medical certicate should be standard.

For courses self statement is required. This is SOP in many, many countries. But that is by the diving agencies, legal requirements exist nearly nowhere.

I also think that is not what he means.

<deleted> has medical registration got to do with it.

They LOST ONE OF THEM and then THEY LEFT THEM and went off as though they didn't exist.

If anything this is related to them thinking they'd poisoned her with dome dogy gas or something, and they've thought that they'd pretend they had never seen her.

This is an outrage and yet it has nothing to do with whether people aren't entirely truthful about their medical history. One man I met had been up Mount Everest or something and he'd got the bends. This would not have been picked up on a medical certificate. You can't make the dive people responsible for the deceptions of their patrons; that's outrageously unfair.

[NamKangMan]

how about checking that all those that have left the boat actually have returned, it cannot be that hard can it? Not being a diver, I fail to understand how such a simple check is not implemented every trip.

It is SOP.

Obviously not as "standard" as an "SOP."

[NamKangMan]

how about checking that all those that have left the boat actually have returned, it cannot be that hard can it? Not being a diver, I fail to understand how such a simple check is not implemented every trip.

It is SOP.

Obviously not as "standard" as an "SOP."

As I said earlier to you, I'm not trolling.

Stop covering up the reality in the dive industry here. Safety standards are non-existant, and we constantly see this in the form of deceased divers.

Your conflict of interest is very obvious.

[Nowisee]

They cut corners because if they don't it will cost them money

I personally would not dive with a company I did not know the owner or other divers and knew their air was clean, they took care of their equipment and the divers were experienced and careful and not out just to make money.

All too often they certify people that can't pass the basic requirements.

Leaving her without accountability is yet another example of carelessness and cutting corners of an inexperienced dive company or at least of the people running that dive.

Diving is fun and should be carried out by experienced people. If you want to dive on vacation, you are responsible for yourself and that means using a good company with a reputation. You panic at 12 meters, you die.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Nowisee

[seedy]

One Troll / Flaming post removed. One reply edited

[slapout]

What ever happened to the old ''buddy'' system when people are in the water. You dive together , stay in sight of each other and

finally surface together?

If the company operating these excursions can not ensure this is a standard practice they should not be in the business much be approved

by some desk jokey who checks their registration of the company (paper work submitted) and proclaims it meets Thai standards (legally)

[stevenl]

how about checking that all those that have left the boat actually have returned, it cannot be that hard can it? Not being a diver, I fail to understand how such a simple check is not implemented every trip.

It is SOP.

Obviously not as "standard" as an "SOP."

As I said earlier to you, I'm not trolling.

Stop covering up the reality in the dive industry here. Safety standards are non-existant, and we constantly see this in the form of deceased divers.

Your conflict of interest is very obvious.

I have very clearly explained, with the limited information I have, what happened here.

There are strict safety standards which they did not adhere to. And in Thailand, as long as all is done according to the law, there probably won't be any consequences.

And no, not 'we see this constantly'.

[NCC1701A]

Are the owners of the dive companies drunk like the cops who come to investigate?

[stevenl]

What ever happened to the old ''buddy'' system when people are in the water. You dive together , stay in sight of each other and

finally surface together?

If the company operating these excursions can not ensure this is a standard practice they should not be in the business much be approved

by some desk jokey who checks their registration of the company (paper work submitted) and proclaims it meets Thai standards (legally)

Sorry, I don't understand your question. They were diving in the buddy system.

[chilli42]

I am a diver and I can 100% guarantee that having even a legitimate medical certificate is insufficient if you seriously want to solve the safety issues.

[WaiLai]

I am astonished that this is not already a diving requirement. A valid medical certicate should be standard.

then again, it is also a developing country

buyer beware

Why is the developed world so aghast at the primitive safety standards in Thailand?

Capitalism comes at a cost!

Having checked the Chinese press a few minutes ago - there doesn't seem to be any similar concern expressed

Edited December 4, 2015 by WaiLai

[SOTIRIOS]

....how about laying criminal charges to begin.....

[stevenl]

....how about laying criminal charges to begin.....

For which crime?

[CharlieH]

Post removed (and justified response).

Debate/discuss the topic NOT the poster and dont make it personal or make attempts to reveal personal details of other members.

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[Khun Robert]

a medical certification does not help alone. Defenitly in Thailand where you just pay and wait outside at a local doctors office.

Yes I did myself when needed for the PADI Instructors exams, paid 500 Thb and waited 5 minutes for a signature.

Dive organisations like PADI have quality assesments, but only for Instructors not for Dive centers.

To increase the income out of courses dive organisations lower the level of requirements.

How can a person never seen salt water and only seen scuba diving in movies become a highly experienced professional in 6 weeks?

With 100 scuba dives experience (including training dives in swimming pools) you can become an Instructor and work world wide.

Lots of diving staff are butterfly, they just come to an area to work one season as a paid holiday.

It takes time to know local conditions on dive sites, but are you given the time when you only work in the area for 5 or 6 months?

Not only in Thailand but world wide things have to change to make Scuba Diving safer.

[tuanku]

Diving is like all adventure activities, there are risks and these are accepted by the diver. However the job of the dive company is to assess and minimise those risks. This the company concerned clearly did not effectively do. They are responsible in part for the death of this diver and should be held accountable. The role of PADI is to supervise companies they license and ensure they are effective in their risk management. It is not clear whether this company was a PADI registered and approved company, but if they were, then PADI also share some (a little) of the responsibility. They make plenty of money through their licensing operation so should carry out frequent and diligent inspections and assessments. This is all independent of National regulation which, in Thailand can be ignored as it is unlikely to be informed or effective.

[Balance]

I am astonished that this is not already a diving requirement. A valid medical certicate should be standard.

Most dive shops require that each diver complete a medical history form, stating if they have had specific problems with there heart, or breathing, or stroke.

Getting a certificate from a physician is simply not practical. The first thing that you learn in a certification course is just how dangerous diving can be. Years ago my then wife and I were diving off St. Croix. She was above me and the dive master at the same level. She also suffered from reflux and had an attack at 40 feet. As l looked up to do a buddy check, the dive master was quickly closing on her and took her up quickly. It was a close call and she stopped diving after that.

Bottom line: Divers have to take responsibility for their limitations due to lack of experience and health issues. However in most of the world, dive operators accept their professional and legal responsibilities to keep track of the people in there care.

It is clear to me that this company is responsible for the death of the diver and their license should be revoked by PADI and whatever Thai regulatory body oversees them.

[scubascuba3]

Not having a buddy was a serious error, maybe buddy left her.

Maybe not enough air in tank.

Maybe she had an extremely rare heart attack or something.

A medical cert will barely help, for example hole in the hearts, most people 1 in 4 don't know they have one, until you get the benz. No medical cert can find that, you need a contrast echo cardiogram. Its a well kept secret. Just pray you don't have one.

[stevenl]

Not having a buddy was a serious error, maybe buddy left her.

Maybe not enough air in tank.

Maybe she had an extremely rare heart attack or something.

A medical cert will barely help, for example hole in the hearts, most people 1 in 4 don't know they have one, until you get the benz. No medical cert can find that, you need a contrast echo cardiogram. Its a well kept secret. Just pray you don't have one.

She was diving with a buddy.

[stevenl]

Diving is like all adventure activities, there are risks and these are accepted by the diver. However the job of the dive company is to assess and minimise those risks. This the company concerned clearly did not effectively do. They are responsible in part for the death of this diver and should be held accountable. The role of PADI is to supervise companies they license and ensure they are effective in their risk management. It is not clear whether this company was a PADI registered and approved company, but if they were, then PADI also share some (a little) of the responsibility. They make plenty of money through their licensing operation so should carry out frequent and diligent inspections and assessments. This is all independent of National regulation which, in Thailand can be ignored as it is unlikely to be informed or effective.

Padi, SSI etc are certification agencies for dive courses. They are not involved with fun divers.

[tuanku]

Diving is like all adventure activities, there are risks and these are accepted by the diver. However the job of the dive company is to assess and minimise those risks. This the company concerned clearly did not effectively do. They are responsible in part for the death of this diver and should be held accountable. The role of PADI is to supervise companies they license and ensure they are effective in their risk management. It is not clear whether this company was a PADI registered and approved company, but if they were, then PADI also share some (a little) of the responsibility. They make plenty of money through their licensing operation so should carry out frequent and diligent inspections and assessments. This is all independent of National regulation which, in Thailand can be ignored as it is unlikely to be informed or effective.

Padi, SSI etc are certification agencies for dive courses. They are not involved with fun divers.

This particular diver did not have fun

[stevenl]

Diving is like all adventure activities, there are risks and these are accepted by the diver. However the job of the dive company is to assess and minimise those risks. This the company concerned clearly did not effectively do. They are responsible in part for the death of this diver and should be held accountable. The role of PADI is to supervise companies they license and ensure they are effective in their risk management. It is not clear whether this company was a PADI registered and approved company, but if they were, then PADI also share some (a little) of the responsibility. They make plenty of money through their licensing operation so should carry out frequent and diligent inspections and assessments. This is all independent of National regulation which, in Thailand can be ignored as it is unlikely to be informed or effective.

Padi, SSI etc are certification agencies for dive courses. They are not involved with fun divers.

This particular diver did not have fun

Yes, accepting a correction on your post is not always easy.

[2fishin2]

Diving is like all adventure activities, there are risks and these are accepted by the diver. However the job of the dive company is to assess and minimise those risks. This the company concerned clearly did not effectively do. They are responsible in part for the death of this diver and should be held accountable. The role of PADI is to supervise companies they license and ensure they are effective in their risk management. It is not clear whether this company was a PADI registered and approved company, but if they were, then PADI also share some (a little) of the responsibility. They make plenty of money through their licensing operation so should carry out frequent and diligent inspections and assessments. This is all independent of National regulation which, in Thailand can be ignored as it is unlikely to be informed or effective.

Padi, SSI etc are certification agencies for dive courses. They are not involved with fun divers.

Technically speaking yes and no. If a divemaster is guiding a group then they are involved with "fun diving".

But yes if not guiding they are in the "assisting" phase of certification. Wink