snoop1130 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Hiring of dozens of foreign aviation experts to be sped up SUCHAT SRITAMA, ERICH PARPART THE NATION COUNTRY NEEDS OVER 80 SPECIALISTS TO DO SAFETY INSPECTION WORK BANGKOK: A FAST-TRACK recruitment of foreign aviation experts will be completed within a month so they can help Thai-registered aircraft meet international standards. The Department of Civil Aviation (DCA) and other related agencies were ordered to outsource the work to experts since there are around 400 aircraft that need to be inspected. Deputy Premier Prawit Wongsuwan issued the order yesterday after an emergency meeting with aviation safety officials following the US Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) downgrading of Thailand's status to Category 2 from Category 1 on Tuesday. The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) is slated to release the results of its investigation on Thailand's aviation industry on December 15. The Cabinet earlier approved the plan to quickly hire foreign inspectors due to a domestic shortage of aviation safety specialists. The DCA said Thailand needed around 86 foreign inspectors to cover the inspection work. The FAA concluded that there remained significant deficiencies in the country's aviation safety system. Mario Hardy, chief executive officer of the Pacific Asia Travel Association, said Thailand should take serious action to resolve the safety concerns as the situation would hurt the country's image. "If EASA makes the same decision like that of the US's FAA, Thailand will face more difficulty," he added. He said passengers were concerned about safety and were more careful when selecting airlines to travel on. Ittirit Kinglake, president of the Tourism Council of Thailand, said the tourism industry was preparing to hold discussions in preparation for the worst-case scenario - EASA also downgrading Thailand. "Thailand is entering into the high season for tourist arrivals. If our national airline has a problem we will work with other carriers to continue the business," Ittirit said. The Ministry of Transport said airlines' re-certification procedures, part of the overhaul of the aviation safety system, consisted of five steps. First is a pre-application process, while the second step is to seek formal application approval. The third step is to undergo technical testing, while the fourth step is to carry out a "demonstration". If approved, the applicant airline will be re-certified. Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said all 41 airlines registered in Thailand had submitted their documents to the DCA and had passed the second step. In the third step, the 28 airlines operating in and out of Thailand are required to undergo testing. These airlines are expected to receive re-certification in August. The department will then invite the 13 airlines operating domestic routes to join the testing procedure. In June, the ICAO red-flagged Thailand's aviation industry, saying it had 33 significant safety problems. Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Hiring-of-dozens-of-foreign-aviation-experts-to-be-30274369.html -- The Nation 2015-12-04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisY1 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Are they saying that the RTAF personell could'nt cut it?......so finally pesky foreigners will be needed..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuchulainn Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Bring 'em in, use 'em to the fullest and then kick 'em out, eh? No need to lose too much face!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSJ Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Are they saying that the RTAF personell could'nt cut it?......so finally pesky foreigners will be needed..... Eaze up a bit on the airforce they.....don't fly 767's or A330's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomacht8 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 The Department of Civil Aviation (DCA) and other related agencies were ordered to outsource the work to experts since there are around 400 aircraft that need to be inspected.400 aircraft.Retrace the whole maintenance intervals?Spare parts relative evidence?Those specialists do not grow on trees. That costs real money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetime Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I teach aviation English. Don't expect any help from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman34014 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 All very well.....but who will want to work here for the money they will be offering against what they are probably earning in a secure job already ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 All very well.....but who will want to work here for the money they will be offering against what they are probably earning in a secure job already ? Probably Bht 30 000 per month and pay for your own visa and work permit, they will be overrun with applicants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I expect the number of foreign experts hired will be 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryB Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Why should a Farang get pay more than a Thai He can learn a lot in Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 How does one unravel Thainess, face, and corruption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLee Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Foreign expert, made from CHINA!!!! Edited December 4, 2015 by MaxLee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 All very well.....but who will want to work here for the money they will be offering against what they are probably earning in a secure job already ? There are contractors in most sections of work be it aviation, mobile phone systems (I was a contractor in that game for 12 years) and almost any jobs you can think off. What happens is that the end customer puts out a request for manpower for a specific task and a specific period They detail what they want, for how long and at what rates. Interested agencies will get in touch with contractors through their database to find who is qualified, who is available and who is interested. The CVs of those who are looking for the job will be culled and sent to the customer who then prepares a short list of who they think are suitable. They go back to agencies to arrange interviews and the candidates are chosen, After that the contracts are signed and the jobs are started. Contractors generally know how long, how much and where before they sign. They don't have to take the job if they don't want to. I turned down a job in Iraq a few years ago because I couldn't agree with the agency on the rate even though it was in USD, tax free and everything paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Bring 'em in, use 'em to the fullest and then kick 'em out, eh? No need to lose too much face!! That is contract work world wide. I am not employed by the customer but I used to give 100% loyalty while I was under contract. After that we never worked together again. As a contractor you are self employed and work for yourself. Edited December 4, 2015 by billd766 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 All very well.....but who will want to work here for the money they will be offering against what they are probably earning in a secure job already ? Probably Bht 30 000 per month and pay for your own visa and work permit, they will be overrun with applicants. If it is much less than 75,000 baht a month with visa, work permit, flights and accommodation they will probably get somebody to do the job but the won't get anybody worthwhile. Have you any idea of the training and experience required let alone of licence qualifications and they don't come cheap and HAVE to be kept current. 75,000 baht is only just over USD$2,000 a month and most top class people which is what they need would start around $5,000 a month all found. Good high quality people don't come cheap. When I was contracting in the mobile phone business a few years ago I was on USD$ 50 per hour all found and may average working day was 10 hours, 6 or 7 days a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Why should a Farang get pay more than a Thai He can learn a lot in Thailand Because farangs spend literally YEARS training and obtaining full international licences and you have to pay for your own licences. There are very few qualified aviation engineers in Thailand who are equal to farang engineers. Farang engineers don't care about face and if they think that the management are wrong they will say so and argue the point. Good, qualified Thai engineers get well paid when they work on the international circuit which is why they are worth FAR more that local Thai rates especially for qualified managers. If you want quality then you pay the going rate. If you want cheap that you get what you pay for. Not only will the contractors be clearing up the mess of the last decade or two they will also be training their replacements. The problem will re-occur in the future unless the government makes sure that the Thai people who take over ARE properly qualified and DO have international licences. The other problem is that when they engineers get qualified they will want the proper rates for the job. If they don't get that rate then they will walk away and get a far better well paid job elsewhere. Edited December 4, 2015 by billd766 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFarAndNear Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 What was that a few months ago. Thai Pilots protested and wanted to adapt to blacklist foreigners from aviation jobs right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Bring 'em in, use 'em to the fullest and then kick 'em out, eh? No need to lose too much face!! That is contract work world wide. I am not employed by the customer but I used to give 100% loyalty while I was under contract. After that we never worked together again. As a contractor you are self employed and work for yourself. Fair point, but while you are there and doing what you are contracted to do, you should not be dicked around and shunted from pillar to post by the host country's various ministries of this and that just because they have a nationalistic strop on about foreingners being able to do what they can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaywalker Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I pity the guys that take on this gig. They'll be met with lots of smiles, grins, nods and agreement & the locals will keep on doing things the EXACT SAME WAY. I have been there, done that, so I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harada Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 How does one unravel Thainess, face, and corruption? Trying to sort this mess out would be like climbing Mt Everest blind folded, and I would guess that by now words out within the industry as to why Thailands aviation is in this situation and considering that there is a worldwide shortage of aviation experts I think that they might be struggling to find the right people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrules Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 There is no time, they've <deleted> it up so badly all Thai airlines will now be banned not only from the US but also from Europe. There won't be enough experts available to do this on short notice. The whole thing is doomed to failure already. We're talking about how long the recovery time from the inevitible failure will be. A well deserved kick in the ass for the airline industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beano2274 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) the average rate for Telecoms Site Mangers in Munich is between 450 and 550 Euros per day, which is about 17000 to 21000 baht per day, I do not think the Thais would be willing to pay that much for Airplane specialists. most of the contractors I work with are on a months notice, Thai would have to cover airplane tickets, accommodation, visas and work permits fees, also look at tax incentives to even get people interested. 400 contractors x 19000 baht per day for 6 months is around 1,400,000,000 baht not including expenses. Plus the agency will actually want around 100 euros per day per person so another 3800 baht per day per contractor is another 278,000,000 Baht in 6 months just for the agency, so a very expensive undertaking. Edited December 4, 2015 by beano2274 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrules Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 the average rate for Telecoms Site Mangers in Munich is between 450 and 550 Euros per day, which is about 17000 to 21000 baht per day, I do not think the Thais would be willing to pay that much for Airplane specialists You're right, it's going to cost a whole lot more than that. They will have to pay it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chang_paarp Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Ok, so they hire all these foreigners and wave a magic wand so the 400 or so planes are certified, how long does the certificatoion last and how long till the same contractor are asked back to repeat the job? You can bet the aircraft will be flagged for regular check by foreign authorities. A second question, what will this do to improve the standards/systems at the airlines operating these aircraft that are lacking? This is another issue that has been raised but not addressed by this knee jerk reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SantiSuk Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 All this stuff about hiring foreigners and impact on Thainess/face is a side issue. The real issue at the moment is whether it is safe to fly on Thai airlines. I recall after my first use of a new service between Ubon and Bangkok that I mused on some TV post - where exactly are the grossly expanding skies in Thailand getting all their trained pilots from? The answer seems to be emerging (in respect of the generality of the industry here, not picking on that one new airline - but it was successive noticeably poor landings that made me wonder) that the industry is not getting sufficiently trained pilots. We have been warned. Now it seems the skies are not that much safer than the roads after all! I know which airlines on my usual route I will now be going back to and which I will be avoiding (in inclement weather seasons at least) - won't name them here due to Thailand's ridiculous libel laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksamuiguy Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Reminds me of when they didn't need IT foreign experts any longer,about 15 years ago. The results of maintenance, upgrades, improvements to the existing systems now in use seem obvious. Old technology thinking, lack of knowledgeable mentors, lack of training, low pay (incentive). Case in point the state of the internet here in "The Kingdom" Failure of critical infrastructure on a regular basis. I work with "Thai Professionals" very often, over the years my opinion is once they get a degree the learning stops. Because they can now Official Sigh plans, documents, no need to improve themselves in their profession. The list is to long, progress is slow but things are improving little by little. Happy Birthday to "His Majesty the King of Thailand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LannaGuy Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 but... but... but... Thailand doesn't need farang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldroj Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Don't expect too much improvement of the situation simply by hiring "foreign" aviation experts, especially if they are anything like all the "foreign" English teachers here. The right aviation experts needed here are going to be very expensive, and particularly hard to find quickly. This also doesn't address the root cause of the problem - the administration of the industry in Thailand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saakura Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I hope it is not like an english teacher's recruitment by local schools where white skin is the prime qualification and having a degree or not is secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinneil Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Yes Thais need help to fix a problem, which is of their own making. Leave it till tomorrow, patch it . Now it has come back to bite them. Ohh mai pen rai kap !!! Not only Thais have problems like this. Remember the photos of an Easy jet engineer using tape on an engine cowling. Several years ago flying from Sumburgh to Aberdeen, onboard British airways ATP i saw fluid pouring out of engine over the wing, called stewardess, no problem sir that is from the overflow. Stupid bi.ch. Sealed systems do not have overflows. I was due to fly back to Sumburgh same day, no flight aircraft unserviceable. Due to problem with engine. Luckily for me and other passengers we arrived safely. These days profit is put first before anything else, patch it till later is what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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