Pattaya is dead

[tropo]

Strange I thought that motorbikes were not allowed on any other floor than the basement , or maybe ground level where the bike parking is, so I highly doubt that you would be allowed to go 6 levels on your bike.

You're correct - I don't go up 6 floors - only ground, basement and 1st level, but all the cars and bikes enter and exit the same place, so you have a fairly good idea how busy it is.

No you can't have a fairly good idea about what is going on in the car park from look at the cars that enter. Or do you think I wasted 1 hour for fun driving up 6 levels, then 6 levels down, if I had known it was that busy inside?

Here's an update for you, and pretty good indication that your busy Saturday afternoon had no correlation with tourist numbers in Pattaya, and amounted to a pretty typical Saturday afternoon as can be experienced throughout the year.

Monday, 21 December, 6:30 pm: Number of spaces available in Central car park: 550 (even motorcyclists can see these numbers at the entrance )

Food Court and Tops supermarket - normal (as in normal for Monday at any time of year). I have a fairly good idea of what is busy there as I shop there at least 3 times a week throughout the year.

Starbucks: totally dead at 8 pm, as is usually expected on any Monday evening.

[TheCruncher]

Strange I thought that motorbikes were not allowed on any other floor than the basement , or maybe ground level where the bike parking is, so I highly doubt that you would be allowed to go 6 levels on your bike.

You're correct - I don't go up 6 floors - only ground, basement and 1st level, but all the cars and bikes enter and exit the same place, so you have a fairly good idea how busy it is.

No you can't have a fairly good idea about what is going on in the car park from look at the cars that enter. Or do you think I wasted 1 hour for fun driving up 6 levels, then 6 levels down, if I had known it was that busy inside?

Here's an update for you, and pretty good indication that your busy Saturday afternoon had no correlation with tourist numbers in Pattaya, and amounted to a pretty typical Saturday afternoon as can be experienced throughout the year.

Monday, 21 December, 6:30 pm: Number of spaces available in Central car park: 550 (even motorcyclists can see these numbers at the entrance )

Food Court and Tops supermarket - normal (as in normal for Monday at any time of year). I have a fairly good idea of what is busy there as I shop there at least 3 times a week throughout the year.

Starbucks: totally dead at 8 pm, as is usually expected on any Monday evening.

Did you notice that I was talking about 3 pm and not 6.30 pm?

Next you gonna come on here and say at 2 am the parking lot was empty, so nobody in Pattaya anymore.

[tropo]

Did you notice that I was talking about 3 pm and not 6.30 pm?

Next you gonna come on here and say at 2 am the parking lot was empty, so nobody in Pattaya anymore.

LOL. Talk about grasping at straws. The busiest time of weekdays is later in the afternoon than weekends. That's when the restaurants start to fill up with Thai customers during the week. On weekends people make a day of it and go earlier. It's quite likely 6:30 pm was just as busy or even busier on Saturday.

Don't worry, I'll bring you updated car park numbers at various times of the day and week. These numbers will not vary significantly with the tourist seasons.

[newnative]

That figure of 550 available parking spaces at Central Festival that a poster mentioned as being available when they were there is a little deceiving as it includes a lot of reserved parking places for Hilton and various special credit card holders/special memberships, etc. These spaces show up as available and have a green light above them but aren't really available unless you are staying at Hilton or have one of the special credit cards or memberships.

[VIPinthailand]

people Park at Central then go to the beach.... it means absolutely nothing . just go to the bar and you will see only 1 or 2 farangs sipping beers. before bars were packed with farangs.

many ladies left to Isaan already. bars are closing, shops are closing, and only Chinese come here to go see the floating market and ride an elephant or two after they are back home after a week . do you call this tourism going up or going down ?

it's not because Thai airports have more people coming than tourism is going up. these new tourists are simply not spending their money in the right pockets. how Thai people are going to live if nobody buy their fruits or their papaya salad?what about movie theatres, do you think Chinese guys are going to watch a movie in Thai or in English?

[johng]

On Sunday 20th at 12 midday ( only an hour after opening) I had to go to the 6th floor of the Central Pattaya the Beach parking lot

to find a space, and there weren't many left... we left about 3PM and every floor was still full and also had cars and trucks "double parked"

took a good 30 minutes to get out of the car park

In the Mall the food court in the basement was packed and restaurants on 5th and 6th floors where busy

the expensive brand name shops where ( as seems normal for them ) totally devoid of customers !

[newnative]

There may be some people who park at Central Festival and then go to the beach but I doubt it's that many. Probably more do shopping at the mall or see a movie and then maybe go out to walk around a bit and maybe get a drink or eat somewhere. My partner and I were at Festival Monday evening and it was very busy. One thing to mention, some Chinese have started to buy condos and they are not all just tourists. I suspect we are seeing what happened with the Russians and people from other countries before them--they came as tourists, liked Pattaya, and decided to return and buy a condo.

[thaitero]

Yes, Chinese has started buying also condos..

For example unixx has translated their project webpage to chinese and they have employed a person who knows the language..

[Flanno]

I'm wondering what the OP's( VIPinthailand) agenda is! Is he a troll? Is he trying to push down the price of condos even further? Is he a Pattaya Doomsday Prepper? Or is he simply another bored expat drivelling over his bottle of Chang in between watching EPL games?

[VIPinthailand]

I'm wondering what the OP's( VIPinthailand) agenda is! Is he a troll? Is he trying to push down the price of condos even further? Is he a Pattaya Doomsday Prepper? Or is he simply another bored expat drivelling over his bottle of Chang in between watching EPL games?

maybe I m both. I would like to get prices of condo to go down . it will go down next year , who want share a condo with Chinese neighbours in a dead town or in a dying town. not me. if you walk South of Jomption, you can already see it s completely deserted. who want live in a place with tiny dirty beaches, no shops and not even a 7 11.? look around you. rent a scooter and go travel a little bit further than you favourite bar. this place has expanded but it doesn't mean there is more people coming. in fact there is only more empty roads and buildings. during rain season, these places will be flooded.

[tropo]

On Sunday 20th at 12 midday ( only an hour after opening) I had to go to the 6th floor of the Central Pattaya the Beach parking lot

to find a space, and there weren't many left... we left about 3PM and every floor was still full and also had cars and trucks "double parked"

took a good 30 minutes to get out of the car park

In the Mall the food court in the basement was packed and restaurants on 5th and 6th floors where busy

the expensive brand name shops where ( as seems normal for them ) totally devoid of customers !

Have you ever seen expensive brand name shops full of people, anywhere? Only if there are major sales, which there are right now. Central is the place to be right now if you want big deals on expensive high end clothes.

[fredob43]

I'm wondering what the OP's( VIPinthailand) agenda is! Is he a troll? Is he trying to push down the price of condos even further? Is he a Pattaya Doomsday Prepper? Or is he simply another bored expat drivelling over his bottle of Chang in between watching EPL games?

maybe I m both. I would like to get prices of condo to go down . it will go down next year , who want share a condo with Chinese neighbours in a dead town or in a dying town. not me. if you walk South of Jomption, you can already see it s completely deserted. who want live in a place with tiny dirty beaches, no shops and not even a 7 11.? look around you. rent a scooter and go travel a little bit further than you favourite bar. this place has expanded but it doesn't mean there is more people coming. in fact there is only more empty roads and buildings. during rain season, these places will be flooded.

Sorry haven't read all the posts. But my 3 pence worth.

Last night was watching on True a program Travels in Thailand part of it was about the elite card wasn't interested. But one bit was about condos in Pattaya sorry cant remember the condo name but they were offering a 20% discount on their condos.

Regard dead I have a friend who arrived 2 days ago, spoke to him today and his words he's never seen it so quiet he's staying off Nakluea Rd.

Ok Central might be busy but one place does not a busy town make.

[Don Mega]

I'm wondering what the OP's( VIPinthailand) agenda is! Is he a troll? Is he trying to push down the price of condos even further? Is he a Pattaya Doomsday Prepper? Or is he simply another bored expat drivelling over his bottle of Chang in between watching EPL games?

maybe I m both. I would like to get prices of condo to go down . it will go down next year , who want share a condo with Chinese neighbours in a dead town or in a dying town. not me. if you walk South of Jomption, you can already see it s completely deserted. who want live in a place with tiny dirty beaches, no shops and not even a 7 11.? look around you. rent a scooter and go travel a little bit further than you favourite bar. this place has expanded but it doesn't mean there is more people coming. in fact there is only more empty roads and buildings. during rain season, these places will be flooded.

You seem to hold a lot of hatred for Pattaya and yet you obsess over it.

Hows that new fan going for ya ?

[fey]

i have noticed an increase of regular thai folk wanting to go to pattaya. they talk about going to the beach, etc. they are not into bars, drinking or sex

???

[mrfaroukh]

Well it is due to combination of few things. Bad economy in the whole world, political situation in Thailand, Thai behavior change from being a land of smile to some kind of angry people for no reason.

Yesterday I was in walking street wanted to take a photo and a guard miss behave so badly as if I am committing a crime. I felt like telling him your job is to attract people to come in there and have drink instead of fighting with them for taking a photo.

[Flanno]

Well mrfaroukh it depends on what you were attempting to photograph. My guess it was a clantily clad lady inside one of the go go bars. This is a big no no for anyone!

[BigDamo]

Guys it's dead here!! I went out last night and Soi 6,7,8 & walking street are all very quiet

Perhaps it will fill up after 26/12?

[Tolley]

Although there is a lot of traffic I think for this time of the year it is rather quiet.

But this is a trend that has been happening gradually over the last few years.

And it was coming off one of the quietest deadest low seasons ever.

[newnative]

Yes, it's true, Fredob43, that one busy mall does not of itself determine if a city is busy or not. But, by the same token, Western Punters (WPs)observing that their favorite bars or tattoo parlors are less busy does not automatically mean that a town is dead. I think the WPs are out and about and seeing fewer WPs like themselves and, suddenly, Pattaya is dead. But, if Pattaya is dead, why did Cartoon Network spend its money to build a huge, new waterpark? Why did 4 of the largest Bangkok builders come to town in the past few years and build or are building large developments? Heck, Lumpini built 4 and Sansiri 2. So far. Index decided it needed to step things up a notch and built a big new store and Home Pro determined it needed a second store. Seems like if Pattaya is dead a second store wouldn't have been needed. Chic Republic and Decco are now here and LK is finishing a large highrise. Holiday Inn doubled in size. The big, new Harbor Mall looks like it will be ready sometime in 2016. Something massive is going up behind Central Center in North Pattaya, maybe a hotel, and a large tract of land has been cleared by Dolphin Circle and I imagine something big will be going there, too. Plenty of tourists are here--but maybe not that many where the WPs hang out. They are at Rubberland and Pattaya Beach in the morning going to the islands, World of Gems in the afternoon, that Art place, Floating Market, the waterparks, and so on. There may be fewer WPs but there are more Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Indian, and Middle Eastern visitors, as well as Thais with Pattaya holiday condos, and these groups, and year-round expats, are keeping Pattaya bustling.

[TheCruncher]

Yes, it's true, Fredob43, that one busy mall does not of itself determine if a city is busy or not. But, by the same token, Western Punters (WPs)observing that their favorite bars or tattoo parlors are less busy does not automatically mean that a town is dead. I think the WPs are out and about and seeing fewer WPs like themselves and, suddenly, Pattaya is dead. But, if Pattaya is dead, why did Cartoon Network spend its money to build a huge, new waterpark? Why did 4 of the largest Bangkok builders come to town in the past few years and build or are building large developments? Heck, Lumpini built 4 and Sansiri 2. So far. Index decided it needed to step things up a notch and built a big new store and Home Pro determined it needed a second store. Seems like if Pattaya is dead a second store wouldn't have been needed. Chic Republic and Decco are now here and LK is finishing a large highrise. Holiday Inn doubled in size. The big, new Harbor Mall looks like it will be ready sometime in 2016. Something massive is going up behind Central Center in North Pattaya, maybe a hotel, and a large tract of land has been cleared by Dolphin Circle and I imagine something big will be going there, too. Plenty of tourists are here--but maybe not that many where the WPs hang out. They are at Rubberland and Pattaya Beach in the morning going to the islands, World of Gems in the afternoon, that Art place, Floating Market, the waterparks, and so on. There may be fewer WPs but there are more Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Indian, and Middle Eastern visitors, as well as Thais with Pattaya holiday condos, and these groups, and year-round expats, are keeping Pattaya bustling.

I think all those companies made those investments because they don't have a crystal ball in the first place, and could get the money from the bank anyway, though none of them ( apart from the Cartoon Network) are catering to tourists.

So plenty of tourists or none at all will make no difference to them.

But to go further on your suggestions.

Ever been in Chic republic or Decco? If the answer is yes, I'm sure you question yourself how it is possible that these companies survive with next to no customers at all. Same goes for Index

Sansiri is building a village near where I live, and they are building on it for the past 5 years, yet not a single house has been occupied. They have another large completed village in SSCC of which is roughly 30% of the houses occupied.

Sirisai, another large developer in Thailand, is building the Ampio estate on highway 36 with houses start from 3.xxx.xxx . Again he has maybe 20 houses completed already for at least 2 years, and much more space, yet not a single house is occupied.

So I think those companies may have other interests then customers to make those huge investments.

Keep in mind that in 1997 the buildings were rising out of the ground like mushrooms, but overnight all construction was halted.

[Tolley]

Yes, it's true, Fredob43, that one busy mall does not of itself determine if a city is busy or not. But, by the same token, Western Punters (WPs)observing that their favorite bars or tattoo parlors are less busy does not automatically mean that a town is dead. I think the WPs are out and about and seeing fewer WPs like themselves and, suddenly, Pattaya is dead. But, if Pattaya is dead, why did Cartoon Network spend its money to build a huge, new waterpark? Why did 4 of the largest Bangkok builders come to town in the past few years and build or are building large developments? Heck, Lumpini built 4 and Sansiri 2. So far. Index decided it needed to step things up a notch and built a big new store and Home Pro determined it needed a second store. Seems like if Pattaya is dead a second store wouldn't have been needed. Chic Republic and Decco are now here and LK is finishing a large highrise. Holiday Inn doubled in size. The big, new Harbor Mall looks like it will be ready sometime in 2016. Something massive is going up behind Central Center in North Pattaya, maybe a hotel, and a large tract of land has been cleared by Dolphin Circle and I imagine something big will be going there, too. Plenty of tourists are here--but maybe not that many where the WPs hang out. They are at Rubberland and Pattaya Beach in the morning going to the islands, World of Gems in the afternoon, that Art place, Floating Market, the waterparks, and so on. There may be fewer WPs but there are more Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Indian, and Middle Eastern visitors, as well as Thais with Pattaya holiday condos, and these groups, and year-round expats, are keeping Pattaya bustling.

I think it is a given that there are less WPS around and the dynamics of Pattaya are changing.

Nonetheless walking around central Pattaya as I do everyday in high and low seasons for many years it does seem quieter than it was in the past at this time of year.

[kennyro]

I live in Soi Buakow and it has never been dead - even flooding will not stop the traffic, the flow of people, or close any of the many businesses. Why do so many love to hate Pattaya?

[newnative]

Yes, Cruncher, I do question how some of the stores stay in business. Not Index or Home Pro but some of the others. Perhaps some of their business is done through developers, hotels, large companies, etc. I think most of the businesses I mentioned do get some support from tourists--certainly the hotels, Cartoon Waterpark, Floating Market, the Art place, island boats, Rubberland, World of Gems, etc. depend on tourists and some tourists and part-timers may find their way to Index and Home Pro. As for the developers, they maybe should stick to condos rather than houses. I don't know enough about Supalai's project to comment but Lumpini, SC Asset, and Sansiri's, condo projects in Pattaya are all doing at least ok, and in a slow market.

[wileycoyote]

Yes ,wonder if some areas declining in popularity & Soi Buakow increasing in popularity ?

[Asiantravel]

Yes, it's true, Fredob43, that one busy mall does not of itself determine if a city is busy or not. But, by the same token, Western Punters (WPs)observing that their favorite bars or tattoo parlors are less busy does not automatically mean that a town is dead. I think the WPs are out and about and seeing fewer WPs like themselves and, suddenly, Pattaya is dead. But, if Pattaya is dead, why did Cartoon Network spend its money to build a huge, new waterpark? Why did 4 of the largest Bangkok builders come to town in the past few years and build or are building large developments? Heck, Lumpini built 4 and Sansiri 2. So far. Index decided it needed to step things up a notch and built a big new store and Home Pro determined it needed a second store. Seems like if Pattaya is dead a second store wouldn't have been needed. Chic Republic and Decco are now here and LK is finishing a large highrise. Holiday Inn doubled in size. The big, new Harbor Mall looks like it will be ready sometime in 2016. Something massive is going up behind Central Center in North Pattaya, maybe a hotel, and a large tract of land has been cleared by Dolphin Circle and I imagine something big will be going there, too. Plenty of tourists are here--but maybe not that many where the WPs hang out. They are at Rubberland and Pattaya Beach in the morning going to the islands, World of Gems in the afternoon, that Art place, Floating Market, the waterparks, and so on. There may be fewer WPs but there are more Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Indian, and Middle Eastern visitors, as well as Thais with Pattaya holiday condos, and these groups, and year-round expats, are keeping Pattaya bustling.

firstly the projects you have listed were probably planned and implemented years ago and no one expected this kind of government to be in charge.

and it's okay if there was any meaningful growth in wages for the punters but the good general has already warned the citizens of this country they are now already on salary levels noticeably higher than in neighbouring countries so how can there be room for further salary growth?

The next question is how much can you realistically expect to be able to squeeze out of the consumer-particularly Thai consumers who are also up to their necks in debt

[Flanno]

As someone else said, it is the dynamics of Pattaya which are changing. More affluent Thais holidaying, more Asian tourists, not only Chinese but also Koreans, Taiwanese, Malaysians and Singaporeans. More western couples and families are discovering it's not all about sex in Pattaya. Slowly but surely the sleazy beachside bars are disappearing but there is still a long way to go. Hopefully the authorities will move on Soi 6 sooner than later. And last but not least the western sex tourists are diminishing in numbers resulting in quieter girly bars around town.

Pattaya is not dying,but simply evolving.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

As someone else said, it is the dynamics of Pattaya which are changing. More affluent Thais holidaying, more Asian tourists, not only Chinese but also Koreans, Taiwanese, Malaysians and Singaporeans. More western couples and families are discovering it's not all about sex in Pattaya. Slowly but surely the sleazy beachside bars are disappearing but there is still a long way to go. Hopefully the authorities will move on Soi 6 sooner than later. And last but not least the western sex tourists are diminishing in numbers resulting in quieter girly bars around town.

Pattaya is not dying,but simply evolving.

Erm...no. Western couples and families aren't discovering anything of the sort. you are just making it up. Western couples and families wouldn't go there in the first place, unless they had a connection to the place. Dad having a new Thai wife for an instance...

They are well aware of it's reputation and would likely choose Phuket or Samui instead.

It was an easier sell for Eastern Russians, as it was actually an improvement in their lifestyle to a certain extent. Moving from -30 to +30 is enough of an incentive and buying an apartment was similarly priced to property where they lived. So there was a dream of living in Pattaya.

Western families don't have a dream of staying in such an awful place. It simply does not have any kind of positive reputation. This is why they need to sell it to those who have little or no idea of it's reputation or go there for it's novelty value.

[Broken Record]

Plenty of western couples in my condo building now, they come to escape the European weather, same as they do every year.

[newnative]

Flanno is right, Jiu-Jitsu. There are western couples and families vacationing here. You may not be noticing them because most of them I think are in the Jomtien, South Jomtien, Na Jomtien, and points south areas. But, some are in Pattaya, too. There's plenty for a family to do for a 1 or 2 week vacation--trips to the islands, Nongnooch (SP?) Gardens, Cartoon Waterpark, elephant rides and shows, Pattaya Park, day trip to Silver Lake, Floating Market, the aquarium, scuba diving/snorkeling, learning to parasail, skydiving, go karts, and an overnight trip into Bangkok for sightseeing is easy and fun to do, the Art Illusion place is fun for kids, among other things. They could spend a vacation here and not go near Walking Street or Soi 6--but I do see them at Central Festival. Look around and you will probably see some, too. Pattaya will probably always be famous for sex, just as Vegas is famous for gambling, but, like Vegas did, it is evolving to offer more than just that.

[Flanno]

Add in a holiday in Phuket or Koh Samui for a western family would be approximately twice as expensive as Pattaya. They are coming already so maybe it's time for Jiu-Jitsu to remove the blinkers and see what's happening around him.