Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[Baerboxer]

I do hope that the victims families are reading this thread.

They will think that justice has been served, but more than likely to innocent people.

Actually, regardless of what we on this thread might THINK, the family has had more access to evidence and police than any of us here. None of us on this thread have been in the courtroom.

While I've been of the opinion that they got the wrong guys, who are any of us here to say that the family is mistaken. They have followed this case much closer than ANY of us here.

I dare sy the family are mistaken - and I think it's not only me.

If they know so much more and KNOW that the scapegoats are guilty they should let everybody know - and understand.

Then the case could be closed.

Why should the family have to share details of what they know and justify their decisions to you? Or any other keyboard warrior or social media star?

Do you think you have some special right?

You are entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else. But, so are the families. And if their more knowledge based opinion is different to yours, mine or anyone else's then so be it. They don't have to explain it to you and seek your approval.

The judge will provide a written statement of his judgement, and why he reached it. That you can read.

[off road pat]

Thankfully, it seems there will be an appeal. Disgraceful performance in a country which hoped to be taken seriously.

If anyone takes this country seriously they chose the wrong place to retire/live.

Well look at it this way,....if we would leave every time the country were we decide to live because some injustice has been done to someone ? there would be no place to live anymore....

No country is perfect and no justice system is perfect....

Some country's might state that they have the best justice system in the world, that will be until the next case were injustice is apparent or suspected !!!

As for the families of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller I sympathise with there grief, and if they are pleased with the verdict ? So be it !!!

Personalty I think justice has not been served and those two innocent people are used as scapegoats to cover the utterly incompetence of the Koh Tao Police.

RIP Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

Best regards. to every one.Off Road Pat

Edited December 24, 2015 by off road pat

[Renrut]

Idiots.

[Baerboxer]

There is no jury. Only one judge. And as much As I want to think the court is corrupt. It's more likely a piss poor defense. Lawyers for the most part are very unskilled and unwilling to do probono work. Court appointed lawyers are very green and inexperienced. But the good thing is they can appeal.

The BBC said there were three judges in court ...

They have also mentioned at various times the defense team, the role of HR and other activists including the Burmese government and Thai Bar Association in providing that defense team; and they certainly aren't green and inexperienced.

Seems he made up his own story.

[Bluespunk]

police tell the 2 suspects they need semen samples to check against semen inside the raped woman. police get samples and could have easily placed some inside the deceased woman and or put in in the haphazard "chain of custody"

Yeah...I'm fairly sure that didn't happen.

[Guitar God]

So who did it Perry Mason?

17 pages of "Thailand sucks" but little discussion about the fact that the family of the male victim said they were convinced that the correct verdict was returned. They were at the trial, they were at the hearing and I'm sure they had a translator.

I'm curious why the people who lost a son and who were privy to more evidence and discussion about the case that everyone here put together are convinced that Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun were to two people responsible for their sons' death. If it were my son who was murdered I wouldn't be satisfied until the person responsible was caught and brought to justice. I wouldn't settle for just killing two random innocent people and calling it even. I doubt the Miller's would either. [/size]

If the two Burmese guys didn't do it, they're the unluckiest people on the planet.

There is CCTV footage of them an a third Burmese laborer on a scooter going to 7-11 to buy cigarettes and beer.

Their friend Muang Muang , on the scooter places them at the beach shortly before the murders.

Cigarette butts with their DNA was found at the scene of the crime.

Both of their DNA was found in the female victims vagina.

The female victim's telephone was found at Zaw Lin's lodging with his fingerprints on it.

They confessed. What's the point of confessing to a crime where the penalty is death?

The unspoken accusation is that some son of a rich Thai did it and his father either bought everyone off or threatened people to rig the trial.

Where's the evidence that anyone else did it? Did the public see anyone else, did cameras, did the police find any evidence linking anyone else to the crime?

Was it a perfect investigation? No. Was the crime scene secured properly? No. What the trial 100% objective and free of outside interference? Who know. Could everything have been handled better, probably. Is this a purely Thai phenomenon, absolutely not. People still discuss and second guess the Oscar Pistorius trial, the OJ trial, Michael Jackson, Phil Spector, Amanda Knox, George Zimmerman and even the Scopes "monkey" trial.

If anybody has a more convincing version of what happened, with real verifiable facts, not just pulled out of their <deleted>, I'd enjoy reading it.

"There is CCTV footage of them an a third Burmese laborer on a scooter going to 7-11 to buy cigarettes and beer."

People go in to 7/11 all day everyday and buy cigarettes and beer; how does this equate to murder?

Their friend Muang Muang , on the scooter places them at the beach shortly before the murders.

People ride scooters all day everyday; How does this equate to murder?

Cigarette butts with their DNA was found at the scene of the crime.

So they lived near the beach and were on the beach that night; how does this equate to murder?

Both of their DNA was found in the female victims vagina.

Was it? The DNA evidence is worthless; no chain of custody, no proper methodology, nonsensical "dates" and corrections on a one page report.

The female victim's telephone was found at Zaw Lin's lodging with his fingerprints on it.

No, Hannah's phone was handed to the police by one of her friends

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/766270-police-clarify-koh-tao-victims-cellphone-planting/

They confessed. What's the point of confessing to a crime where the penalty is death?

Tortured into confessions? there is no evidence that they were properly interrogated.. They were taken to a so called "safe house" without any legal representation.

Seems you are the one reaching into the depths of your own <deleted>.. enjoy!

[tikovest]

This is the most injustice in a court I have ever heard in all my 74 years.

I only hope that people from around the world will no longer come to Thailand for there holidays and, not buy goods made in Thailand. The Judges and police have a total disregard for justice.

It is bad... so bad... my Christmas is not same anymore... 24 December I will never forget that someone is down in a case that is out of all right.

[brewsterbudgen]

The complete lack of law and order/justice is the main reason that I no longer live in Thailand.

I cannot understand why the rest of you are still there.

Some of us are stuck here economically. Sadly.

And others for the love of a partner and/or children. Obliviously.

Would anyone really make a decision about where they and their family live based on the outcome of a court case? Astonishing!

[WaiLai]

I'm thinking "mysterious deaths" while in detention and awaiting for the appeal process to kick in.

It's not uncommon here.

Works well for some people in this country.

and sardonic laughter rumbles around the world as it smells, recoils and retreats from the LOS

Edited December 24, 2015 by WaiLai

[spidermike007]

I find it difficult to express my dismay that this trial ever went to court.

I hope the international community takes the time to fully express their concerns to those concerned.

Merry Christmas!

In reality, based on what we saw during the trial, it would have been more transparent in terms of what they wanted as a desired outcome, had there been no trial, the two were just declared guilty, and sent to prison for life. The trial was such a waste of time and resources, and got up the hopes of the families of the defendants, as well as the rest of the civilized world, all of whom more or less knew the truth.

[NCFC]

"The court on Samui island this morning ruled that there is sufficient evidence to implicate the two defendants, Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, in the double murder of British nationals David Miller and Hannah Witheridge in September 2014."

What evidence was that I wonder? The DNA semen matches were only based on the police's say so, as they refused to provide any documentation to support their claims and refused to allow independent verification. There was no DNA link to the murder weapon. The UK coroner found that Hannah had not even been sexually assaulted which threw into doubt that there were actually any semen samples for the Thai police to test. The only incontrovertible evidence was that the defendants were on the beach during some portion of the night that the murders took place but that is purely circumstantial.

Did the court simply accept the unsupported police claims of DNA match and the confessions that were allegedly made under police torture and retracted by the time of the trial?

Uk coroner's report hasn't been issued so how do you know it's contents?

[MrTee]

So who did it Perry Mason?

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Do you think its right to condemn to death 2 men based on the flimsiest evidence? DNA evidence that cannot be supported? a CCTV of folk buying cigarettes from 7/11? A forced confession?

Instead of drinking Kool-aid and pulling your stuff out of your <deleted>...

Maybe ask some questions as to what happened to Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen's investigation, before he was removed from the investigation..

Ask why was certain leads not investigated.

I think many posters know exactly who was involved - if you missed it you must be living under a rock.

[Bluespunk]

I really hope blood is shed at the Thai Embassy in Rangoon. It's all these Thai savages deserve

I hope for the opposite

[clockman]

So a judge can condem somebody to death, but cannot be named, True Thainess

[lucky11]

I am crying for these two innocent boys, victims of an unfair and cruel system whose leaders lie and conceal the truth. Land of NO smiles.

Don't waste your hankies on these two would be my advice to you.

So why you wasting so much in these two?

What is your agenda here?

You stated over and over that you think they're guilty, but you appear to be on a mission to "prove" it even to the point of being vitriolic and rude towards other posters.

Spoiler, we're all entitled to an opinion; not just you!

Am I curbing your posts? Of course you are entitled to your opinion, just about as much as I am.

Are you not intent in letting the world know that there has been a miscarriage of justice? So I'm a spoiler am I, how very amusing that you should think this. Do you deem countering posters arguments successfully as spoiling? I thought putting your point of view over was the whole idea of a forum.

How can it be vitriol in telling somebody to stop wasting hankies, I'm sure she will get over it, it's all part of the learning process.

[whitfield]

I must have missed the point where the prosecution proved that the DNA they found in Hannah matched either of the two Burmese. If they raped her and then killed her then their DNA would be all over the body. I feel sick.

[mrrizzla]

So the running shirtless man on the released CCTV. Are they saying that is one of the B2? I have seen some compelling stuff online saying that it is Mon...

[joebrown]

Iam dugusted, with Britains stance on this case. But of course it is called diplomacy! So now we are lickspittles to the third world.

Third world doesn't need to take any lessons from us/you the so-called 1st world. We have exploited the third world for our own profit and greed. The UN is a farce too. We're all the same in the end: Corrupted and bad.

95% of people disgusted on this forum about this KT case will talk blatant right-wing intolerant bs in other topic on muslim refugees in Europe. Clowns.

"We're all the same in the end. Corrupted and bad" Thanks, but I can speak for myself, if you don't mind!

[pigeonjake]

this has cost a lot of money to get the real killers off !!!

unbelievable thailand, money can get you out of any fix,,,

[NCFC]

Expert witness Dr Porntip's statement, that the police's DNA evidence was flawed and therefore unreliable, was not taken into account. According to Jonathon head on BBC.

That may well be advantageous if this case is ever appealed - it could be a very important point in the hands of a competent defence lawyer.

Porntip has had a career-long fued with the RTP so her criticising them is just par for the course. This case is a great opportunity for her to beat up the RTP so any opinion she offers has to be seen in that context Edited December 24, 2015 by NCFC

[Mister Fixit]

Statement on behalf of the family of Hannah Witheridge

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1450938246

Very interesting that the Witheridge's family statement seems to be completely at odds with that of the Millers.

On another thread on this subject, someone said he thought the Miller's were delusional. I tend to agree. Something VERY not-quite-right there.

Some attention-seeking perhaps ...?

I suspect they've swallowed the line the Met and FCO have fed them hook line and sinker.

OTOH, the Witheridge family, although deeply sad, seem to be far more restrained and 'together' than the Miller family.

I thought this part of their statement was especially poignant - 'On the basis of Hannah’s dedication and passion for Speech and language therapy and the excellent feedback she received during her placements, the University of Essex has introduced an award for outstanding excellence in clinical placements in her memory. It will be named the ‘Hannah Witheridge Award for Clinical Excellence’. Hannah will be the first recipient. As a family, we are touched by this beautiful tribute to Hannah as the hard working, dedicated young woman that she was.'

Well done, Essex Uni and well done for holding it together, the Witheridge family.

It's a bleak Christmas for you all, but I send you my heartfelt sympathy. Be strong.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Mister Fixit

[NCFC]

I do hope that the victims families are reading this thread.

They will think that justice has been served, but more than likely to innocent people.

Actually, regardless of what we on this thread might THINK, the family has had more access to evidence and police than any of us here. None of us on this thread have been in the courtroom.

While I've been of the opinion that they got the wrong guys, who are any of us here to say that the family is mistaken. They have followed this case much closer than ANY of us here.

I dare sy the family are mistaken - and I think it's not only me.

If they know so much more and KNOW that the scapegoats are guilty they should let everybody know - and understand.

Then the case could be closed.

Well I think their statement did exactly what you are asking for, doesn't it? The Millars statement couldn't have been clearer Edited December 24, 2015 by NCFC

[majhiggins]

The posts mostly miss the main point. You can "arm-chair-quarterback", as we Americans say about ambiguous decisions, but at the root of it all, how uncertain was this verdict? Not a doubt in my mind since this case was broken. And that should strike fear into all of us living here. If the verdict 'needs' to be X, you can rest assured that that is what the verdict will be. We weren't there and didn't participate in the trial but I really don't think there is anyone who is shocked or surprised by the outcome. Time to retire the phrase "Amazing Thailand". If you've lived here for more than a year or two and these actions still "amaze" you, you probably haven't been paying much attention! I made a conscious decision at about my 4-year mark to try and avoid prefacing any observations I have with the phrase "I can't believe that......". I've been here 10 yrs. I'de believe just about anything.

[Jonmarleesco]

'"We believe what happened today represents justice for Hannah and David," said Miller. "The Royal Thai Police conducted a thorough and methodical investigation ... evidence against the two was overwhelming."' We have to assume they have been privy to evidence that seemingly passed the RTP by - or the RTP kept hidden - because there is little doubt that the police investigation often bordered on the farcical.

[ClutchClark]

The lck of respect for David's surviving family is amazing.

David was obviously a very good young man who embodied the finest values of our Society; therefore, it is safe to say that his loyalty would be to his parents and family.

Therefore, all of this ranting, which is in direct defiance of the family shows the ranters are far more interested in their own selfish egos than in displaying any honor or respect towards young David or his bereaving parents and siblings.

[Travelman868]

Brother of victim says justice has been served

The Nation

KOH SAMUI, Thailand - A Thai court sentenced two Myanmar migrant workers to death on Thursday after convicting them of the 2014 murders of two young British tourists on a holiday island.

The battered bodies of backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were found on a beach on the island of Koh Tao in September 2014. Police said Witheridge, 23, had been raped and bludgeoned to death. Miller, 24, also suffered blows to his head.

Following weeks of pressure to solve the case, police arrested Myanmar migrant workers Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun.

The verdict and sentence follow an investigation and trial that triggered allegations of police incompetence, mishandling of evidence and DNA tests and torture of the suspects.

The verdicts came after 21 days of witness hearings in a trial that began in July and ended in October.

The court said the DNA tests by investigators were carried out to acceptable standards and the DNA found on Witheridge matched that of the defendants.

The judge said there was no weight to the two men’s claims that they had been tortured.

Miller’s family flew to Thailand for the verdict. His brother, Michael, delivered a statement to reporters outside the court and said justice had been delivered, adding that the two men had shown no remorse for what they had done.

"We believe what happened today represents justice for Hannah and David," said Miller. "The Royal Thai Police conducted a thorough and methodical investigation ... evidence against the two was overwhelming."

Witheridge’s family said the trial had been distressing.

"We found listening to proceedings very challenging and we have had to endure a lot of painful and confusing information," the family said in a statement.

"We now need time, as a family, to digest the outcome of the trial and figure out the most appropriate way to tell our story."

The mother of one of the defendants broke down in tears as the judge passed sentence in the court on Samui island, close to Koh Tao.

Defence lawyer Nakhon Chompuchat told reporters that the defendants would file an appeal within a month.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Brother-of-victim-says-justice-has-been-served-30275595.html

-- The Nation 2015-12-24

Why would the verdict be given on the 24th December ie:- Christmas Eve when the majority of Farang's are busy with preparations for the holiday. This case has been flawed from the start.

The real murderers are likely sitting in a bar on Koa Tao Drinking Red Bull

I'm not going to say more as it will be a waste of time.

[WaiLai]

The complete lack of law and order/justice is the main reason that I no longer live in Thailand.

I cannot understand why the rest of you are still there.

Some of us are stuck here economically. Sadly.

And others for the love of a partner and/or children. Obliviously.

Would anyone really make a decision about where they and their family live based on the outcome of a court case? Astonishing!

Of course there would be some who would be swayed by this and many other witnessed outcomes. Why is that such a difficult construct to fathom?

You are astonished by this probability? Your astonishment leaves me feeling a little sad for those you come in contact with. Hopefully you aren't the type to try and exert influence!

[Guitar God]

In search of actual factual information I clicked on the link about the phone the police recovered from the suspect's house. My mistake. It did not belong to the female victim, it belonged to Mr. Miller, the male murder victim.

That's some excellent exculpatory evidence. No wonder you're so puzzled that they were convicted.

The other points I brought up don't prove murder, they put them at the scene of the crime, right before the crime. The video evidence of them going to 7-11 to buy beer and cigarettes links them to the cigarette butts on the beach near the scene of the crime which makes it harder for conspiracy theorists to say the police wiped the butts on the two non-smokers to frame them. The buying beer shows they were drinking, something that happens quite often before most rapey behavior.

Enlighten me as why the victims parents, who actually witnessed the trial and saw the evidence, the actual evidence and not the couple paragraphs of poorly translated and filtered Thenglish you read in the Bangkok Post, are satisfied with the DNA evidence but you're not.

Are they stupid, ignorant, were they offered a big brown envelop, did the BIB hook a car battery up to Mr Miller's nutsack and threaten him ?

Complaining and criticizing is easy, coming up with a more plausible explanation is evidently much more difficult. If one was posted here I missed it in the high noise to signal thread.

I'm not siding with the cops, I'm not telling people to quit their bitching, I'm asking for better answers but unfortunately, none are forthcoming.

17 pages of "Thailand sucks" but little discussion about the fact that the family of the male victim said they were convinced that the correct verdict was returned. They were at the trial, they were at the hearing and I'm sure they had a translator.

I'm curious why the people who lost a son and who were privy to more evidence and discussion about the case that everyone here put together are convinced that Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun were to two people responsible for their sons' death. If it were my son who was murdered I wouldn't be satisfied until the person responsible was caught and brought to justice. I wouldn't settle for just killing two random innocent people and calling it even. I doubt the Miller's would either. [/size]

If the two Burmese guys didn't do it, they're the unluckiest people on the planet.

There is CCTV footage of them an a third Burmese laborer on a scooter going to 7-11 to buy cigarettes and beer.

Their friend Muang Muang , on the scooter places them at the beach shortly before the murders.

Cigarette butts with their DNA was found at the scene of the crime.

Both of their DNA was found in the female victims vagina.

The female victim's telephone was found at Zaw Lin's lodging with his fingerprints on it.

They confessed. What's the point of confessing to a crime where the penalty is death?

The unspoken accusation is that some son of a rich Thai did it and his father either bought everyone off or threatened people to rig the trial.

Where's the evidence that anyone else did it? Did the public see anyone else, did cameras, did the police find any evidence linking anyone else to the crime?

Was it a perfect investigation? No. Was the crime scene secured properly? No. What the trial 100% objective and free of outside interference? Who know. Could everything have been handled better, probably. Is this a purely Thai phenomenon, absolutely not. People still discuss and second guess the Oscar Pistorius trial, the OJ trial, Michael Jackson, Phil Spector, Amanda Knox, George Zimmerman and even the Scopes "monkey" trial.

If anybody has a more convincing version of what happened, with real verifiable facts, not just pulled out of their <deleted>, I'd enjoy reading it.

"There is CCTV footage of them an a third Burmese laborer on a scooter going to 7-11 to buy cigarettes and beer."

People go in to 7/11 all day everyday and buy cigarettes and beer; how does this equate to murder?

Their friend Muang Muang , on the scooter places them at the beach shortly before the murders.

People ride scooters all day everyday; How does this equate to murder?

Cigarette butts with their DNA was found at the scene of the crime.

So they lived near the beach and were on the beach that night; how does this equate to murder?

Both of their DNA was found in the female victims vagina.

Was it? The DNA evidence is worthless; no chain of custody, no proper methodology, nonsensical "dates" and corrections on a one page report.

The female victim's telephone was found at Zaw Lin's lodging with his fingerprints on it.

No, Hannah's phone was handed to the police by one of her friends

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/766270-police-clarify-koh-tao-victims-cellphone-planting/

They confessed. What's the point of confessing to a crime where the penalty is death?

Tortured into confessions? there is no evidence that they were properly interrogated.. They were taken to a so called "safe house" without any legal representation.

Seems you are the one reaching into the depths of your own <deleted>.. enjoy!

[MrTee]

Am I curbing your posts? Of course you are entitled to your opinion, just about as much as I am.

Are you not intent in letting the world know that there has been a miscarriage of justice? So I'm a spoiler am I, how very amusing that you should think this. Do you deem countering posters arguments successfully as spoiling? I thought putting your point of view over was the whole idea of a forum.

How can it be vitriol in telling somebody to stop wasting hankies, I'm sure she will get over it, it's all part of the learning process.

I can only assume you do not understand what I meant by "Spoiler" never heard the expression "Spoiler Alert" ?

I'm not say you are a spoiler. The "Spoiler" is "we are all entitled to an opinion; not just you" - my bad, I made the mistake of thinking you understood English.

what I am saying you are vitriolic and rude towards other posters, and, despite telling other poster not to waste their time, you appear to have an agenda and continue to attack everyone else's opinion that is not congruent with your thinking .

Instead of answering my simple question, and taking the opportunity of putting over your point, you seem to have wandered off in to some childish and puerile banter.

I's a simple enough question; I'll repeat for you :

What is your agenda here?

Edited December 24, 2015 by MrTee

[petedk]

I must have missed the point where the prosecution proved that the DNA they found in Hannah matched either of the two Burmese. If they raped her and then killed her then their DNA would be all over the body. I feel sick.

How can DNA be all over her? They put on condoms! DNA was found in the condom