Jump to content

Who's in the wrong? Motorbike crashes into pedestrian, 2nd moto flips


Recommended Posts

Posted

Rule 7 (D) of the British Highway Code (applying to pedestrians): "If traffic is coming, let it pass. Look all around again and listen. Do not cross until there is a safe gap in the traffic and you are certain that there is plenty of time. Remember, even if traffic is a long way off, it may be approaching very quickly."

I know we are not in the UK but I have respect for this well written document which is pretty much 100% common sense. Clearly the motorcyclist is driving in a manner that renders him not blameless but the pedestrian, also, must take his share of blame.

the motorcycle was in the wrong lane. the BHC has nothing to do with Thailand
  • Replies 158
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted

A guy wandering down the middle of the road in traffic gets hit by a bike that's on the wrong side of the road. Darwin is to blame.

Rubbish! The motorcyclist had ample time to slow down but as usual didn't bother.

The motorcyclist portrays the thinking of 99.99% of Thai drivers: "...cannot stop...cannot slow down...must maintain momentum at all costs...."

This is where we foreigners often get into trouble on Thai roads. I've been rear-ended three times by such thinkers. After watching the video, I double my efforts to be wary as a pedestrian--especially on sidewalks.

Posted

What a question... Of course it is the motorbike driver who hit the pedestrian first who is to blame. It's a solid line and he's not supposed to ride on the opposite lane. Typical Thai self-centered, egoistic and superficial behavior - welcome to your daily dose of "Discover Thainess" !!!

In the end - of course - they'll suck every Thai Baht available out of the one survivor of this mayhem who has the biggest bank account, or if a foreigner is involved, he'll take the fall... Why not blame the car with the dash cam filming the accident? Welcome to yet another dose of "Discover Thainess"...

this post is a classic example of why Thais hate farangs. Go home.

Ah, that dreary old refrain of "go home".

You don't like a view then prove it wrong.

I confirm: go home.

Posted

I'd blame the motorcyclist who hit the pedestrian. He was riding much too fast overtaking slow moving traffic on a wet road and on the wrong side of the road.

Yep---- I'm with you Ed.I looked at the video 4 times and definately would think that I would have seen that pedestrian long time before the collision and would have slowed down or stopped with enough time. However the amazing thing for me was to see everyone walking away as if nothing happened,just the pedestrian rubbing his head and then at last a bikie turns up to help the other one still lying in the middle of the road !!!!!!!sad.pngsad.png

Posted (edited)

the motorcycle was in the wrong lane. the BHC has nothing to do with Thailand

Even if it motorcyclist was in his way he would be wrong.
"Any motorized vehicle driver must always remain master of its speed"
Fortunately they are not allowed to crush any pedestrian walking on their way because I know some that would make it a hobby.
Edited by happy Joe
Posted

Surely the motorbike was in the middle or over the line, because he was overtaking the parked car (which was well away from the kerb) and which pulled out before seeing there was no other traffic coming.

Pontless suggesting the pedestrian should have used the walkways...WHAT WALKWAYS. and even at pedestrian crossings...WHO STOPS?

The motorbike driver should have seen the man in the purple shirt, and avoided him.

Parked car 25% pedestrian 25% Bike driver 50% to blame!

Did you follow the link and watch the video? There were no parked cars so how can 25% fault be attributed to a parked car? They were in a traffic queue and if you watch the video you will see the ars in front are moving before the crash

Posted

The answer is simple. There are no parked cars but a traffic queue. The lad was not jaywalking, he was looking both ways. the whole time - in fact he glanced over his shoulder even when he was on the other side of the road. There is a solid yellow line down the middle of the road which means 'do not go over this line'. The m/c rider was on the wrong side of the road driving toward oncoming traffic, he mad no attempt to avoid, just drove straight into the lad. M/C rider in the wrong for the accident. The lad who got hit, in the wrong for leaving the scene of an accident.

Posted

is that a trick question? the culprit is very obvious. worst part is, he's probably the angriest person at the scene because it was his fault. authorities are simply too lenient when it comes to motorcycle riders. extremely poor enforcement of traffic laws have molded hordes of riders into what they are now - rolling road hazards.

Posted

Rule 7 (D) of the British Highway Code (applying to pedestrians): "If traffic is coming, let it pass. Look all around again and listen. Do not cross until there is a safe gap in the traffic and you are certain that there is plenty of time. Remember, even if traffic is a long way off, it may be approaching very quickly."

I know we are not in the UK but I have respect for this well written document which is pretty much 100% common sense. Clearly the motorcyclist is driving in a manner that renders him not blameless but the pedestrian, also, must take his share of blame.

Yes...

And when I was taught how to drive, "Anticipate" was the buzz word, be aware of other drivers and pedestrians.

The pedestrian was on the centre line, (solid line even if a bit faded), watching for a break in traffic from his left ...and clearly the bike did not even slow down, again it was a solid line and the bike was on the wrong side of the road.

Posted

Class act! The pedestrian who caused the crash walks away while a fellow human being lays motionless in the road. Nice.

Posted

Easy one really, the Thai mentality of needing to get somewhere in what they perceive as the quickest possible way, without ever realizing that there might actually be other users of the road, shortsightedness, bloodymindedness, arrogance or just plain dumb, either way, it happens many, many times a day, every day, sad but true and all we can do about it when using Thai roads is to ALWAYS expect the unexpected and hopefully come through each journey unscathed.

KB

Posted

The more you play it the more you will come to the conclusion that the majority of the fault lies with the bike rider. The pedestrian was clearly headed towards crossing that lane but the rider completely ignored this and him - and paid dearly for it.

Posted

After watching this video a number of times and reading prior post. My opionion is the pedestrian is at fault. Had he been in a cross walk then the table is turned. He is another unwise person in the middle of traffic failing to look both ways then he darts and is struck.

Had this been me I still looking both ways before I dart across the street. This being Thailand you always have stray dogs and not wise pedistrian making the decision to cross the street when not safe. As in the video here. My 2 baht!

A crosswalk you say?

Grand idea.... But I'm not quite sure how many miles I would have to walk to find one, to actually cross the street, in the small part of LOS that I'm hiding in.

Just as well there's bars on both sides of the roads.???

Posted

Class act! The pedestrian who caused the crash walks away while a fellow human being lays motionless in the road. Nice.

There is a human response mechanism called " flight or fight".... Everyone is predisposed to one or the other actions mentioned

The bloke in purple was probably soiling himself, and wanted to get the hell outta there asap ( flight)... .. And besides, after an accident, a person involved would probably be the least able to help... So cut the guy some slack..... Just saying?

Posted

This is simple, I don't know why there is so much discussion, pedestrians ALWAYS have the right of way, besides, the bike rider must be blind not to have seen him. Bike rider, on wrong side of the road, and paying no attention.

Posted

Funny thing is that the pedestrian after getting hit just gets up and walks away, doesn't even help anyone ???

inconsiderate people unbelievable.

He just got pummelled by a vehicle he didn't see coming. How many minutes do you think it would take to collect your wits after that. He might even be seriously hurt and not know it yet. You only get to see 15 seconds of his actions after being hit.

If it were me I would be on my way to the side of the road to sit down before I fell down.

Posted (edited)

Does this have anything to do with that old age riddle :

Why did the chicken cross the road?

No one has ever figured that one out ...so...I am thinking they will never figure this one out also....This being Thailand and all and with the way they drive so recklessly.

Meantime, the guy trying to cross the road did not finish crossing the road rather got up and went back to the same side and where he was originally walking.

Adds more confusion to the whole affair.

Meantime, I hope the other people involved are OK as I have seen 2 nasty motorcycle accidents over the years where one of the people involved was dead on impact and in the other accident one of the persons looked like they were not injured...luckily ...but damn they went down hard.....real hard.... only 5 feet away from me....while I figured the one girl was dead on the impact when her head slammed down on the pavement...but nope.... the person was looking OK while she was assisted to get up off the pavement by the guy operating the motorcycle she had fallen off of and then sat down on the side walk.

Also, one time I was sitting in a cab and walking distance away from a major intersection and there was a traffic jam ahead while the cab was not moving for about 15 minutes and behind me, in the distance, I could here an ambulance.

I decided I would walk up to the nearby intersection and cross the intersection and get a cab on the other side of the intersection as something was going on up ahead to plug up the traffic.

When I walked ahead and arrived at the intersection I could see why there was a big back up in the traffic in the direction I had been travelling.

There in front of me was a major case of "Mangle Tangle" road accident tragedy spread out all over the middle of the intersection.

There was one body dragged off to the side and on the side walk and not moving at all ( as in dead ) while 5 or 6 other people were off to the side and nursing their wounds and mangled limbs and a fair amount of blood flowing and a pool or 2 of blood in the intersection where there was what looked like about 10 motor bikes all broken apart and mangled and twisted with bike parts spread about the intersection and a large flat bed transport truck out their in the middle of the intersection.

It became clear to me that a whole lot of motorcycles had weaved their way up to the front of the traffic and waiting for the long red light to change and when it did turn green, possibly 50 or more motorcycles drivers eagerly sped forward.

Some of them must have collided with one another's motorcycles, side to side, or what ever in the rush to take off through the intersection and then a big rolling ball of motorcycles all tripping over one another and tangled together and then other vehicles behind them running them over and getting caught up in the evolving mayhem with all the other vehicles behind them trying to crowd through the intersection and driving over some of the motorcycles.

Intersection Road Carnage in volume.

Cheers

Edited by gemguy
Posted

Finding fault is important by doing so we can cite the party or parties so it isn't done again and again. But this is Thailand right where the driving habits and rules/laws all taken from the West has been diluted to the point it is unrecognizable any longer. You have heard the saying from Thais " This is Thailand " yes today Thailand in the last ten years has moved up year after year to being the second worse by a WHO report for accident in the world, only Iran is ahead of them and that isn't saying much.

When you look at the vehicle think about this and my views come from years of living here and driving. Having trained with the Department of Transportation in the Commercial driving area along with dealing with California Hwy Patrol to identify accidents. And this being a accident in Thailand, from my experience there aren't too many crosswalks around and it they exist normally they are KM away, this is not a country that pedestrian have the Right of Way.

Here is what I concluded from the video, The pedestrian from the sidewalk look back to his right checking out the oncoming traffic before he even step in front of the car and when he was in front again this time taking a much longer look knowing full will this time he was entering into traffic to cross, for the third and last time he look back to his right and this time I believe he saw the motorbike coming from behind and also saw the motorbike coming towards him. Why? After the last look to the right you can see him jump or increase his movement, because he saw the motorbike coming towards him and knowing there was a bike coming from behind wanted to dash forward so the motorbike coming towards him did not need to stop or slow down.

As for the motorbike that hit him from behind, I seen this move a number of times twice it ended in the death of the motorbike driver. This move or intent stems from a simple condition of lack of patience. That every CM, counts even if it cost you your life. Although it is very common for drivers here to do it and I do it all the time myself on the right or left crossing over a marked line I'm not suppose to do. The difference I do it with caution and slow down knowing full well something might pop out unexpected?

In this particular case although from the video it look like the motorbike from behind never saw the pedestrian. There was no indication of any immediate braking or body reaction from the driver Why? and like I said I've seen this reaction before. It should be noted that the motorbike was already 25% into a lane the bike shouldn't have been. Just as the pedestrian took his last look back a second later he started to dash behind the oncoming bike the bike behind instead of doing going behind the pedestrian for some odd reason decided it would go in front of him at the same moment the pedestrian made his dash. You can clearly see contact was made when it happen. At the point of contact the motorbike is near if not 50% into the other lane. Even if the motorbike was to avoid contact with the pedestrian it would have made contact with the on coming motorbike. Either way the other bike would have gone down. Although people want to blame the pedestrian, I ask where is the crosswalk? Here is Pattaya Beach Road and around town they spent 125 million on cross walk with lights using them is taking your own life in your hands. If you did stop for a pedestrian someone would smash into you from behind? This was and is the fault of the motorbike coming from behind for not slowing down and being cautious to the road condition at hand.

Posted

It's nice to see the evidence of what I said on page one of this thread building as it has developed.

Five pages of people trying to apportion blame after the event happened. All looking to point a finger at the guilty party.

The nice thing about this example is that it is not a clear cut case, two peoples actions can be apportioned blame. But is that not always the case?

Thing is I bet neither of them intended the accident to happen.

prediction-fails.png

Possibly by evidence of the purple shirts they had just finished work and were on their way home like they do every day.

Normal everyday people doing normal everyday things.

Now we all do it. If you want to compare it with a different country then at the other end of the road safety scale we have the UK with it's enforcement and higher training standards.

Would that have helped? Well the same things happen on UK roads so no guarantees, just a little less frequently.

But the accident statistics for the UK clearly show it is normal everyday drivers doing normal everyday things that are killing the majority of pedestrians that die on UK roads.

Thailand does not have the same training standards as the UK. ALL Riders in the UK have to do a basic training course which includes at least two hours of on road training and also includes theory on rights of way and how to be a motorised road user rather than a pedestrian.

The majority of Thai road users use the roads by the rules they learned as pedestrians.

If we want to use Thai roads then we need to play by the rules that apply.

Unfortunately many Thais believe this life is only part of a greater journey, so if their way ahead is mapped they do not have to worry about their own destiny.

Also the wish to avoid confrontation often leads them to not wanting to make eye contact - they do not look out of choice.

Now we can all go on about how bad the Thai drivers are but I have the same problems here in the UK. When riding my bike I have had pedestrians cross the road and unexpectedly pop out from in front of vehicles.

I have also had cars not see me and turn into my path. I have also been told that an accident was "obviously my fault as I was a biker"!

These sort of accidents happen everywhere, every day, all the time.

If we can move on from trying to apportion blame to some nasty criminal so we can all feel better as "it was him that dun it!!!"

We can all take it as a lesson to look out for gaps just incase something is emerging.

Or not just assuming that stepping out from between a line of cars will be safe.

And maybe when there is a lot going on and loads of people about, riding with a bit more 'due care and consideration' is better than just trying to beat the traffic.

gaps-traps.png?w=553&h=221

There is a very interesting page on the No Surprise / No Accident Website on Prediction Failure

The nice thing with our emerging new approach to road safety is that it is from the ground up. Rather than expecting everyone else to change we look to learning to adapt to how things are and look after our own safety. If everyone did it then we would all be a lot safer. But even on UK roads I know people brake the rules. I have battled Insurance companies for payouts and claims after being run off the road. Never corrects the wrong - I still have issues with injuries.

Far better to avoid the accident rather than deal with the aftermath. No Surprise / No Accident

thairoadcraft.wordpress.com

Posted

It's nice to see the evidence of what I said on page one of this thread building as it has developed.

Five pages of people trying to apportion blame after the event happened. All looking to point a finger at the guilty party.

The nice thing about this example is that it is not a clear cut case, two peoples actions can be apportioned blame. But is that not always the case?

Thing is I bet neither of them intended the accident to happen.

prediction-fails.png

Possibly by evidence of the purple shirts they had just finished work and were on their way home like they do every day.

Normal everyday people doing normal everyday things.

Now we all do it. If you want to compare it with a different country then at the other end of the road safety scale we have the UK with it's enforcement and higher training standards.

Would that have helped? Well the same things happen on UK roads so no guarantees, just a little less frequently.

But the accident statistics for the UK clearly show it is normal everyday drivers doing normal everyday things that are killing the majority of pedestrians that die on UK roads.

Thailand does not have the same training standards as the UK. ALL Riders in the UK have to do a basic training course which includes at least two hours of on road training and also includes theory on rights of way and how to be a motorised road user rather than a pedestrian.

The majority of Thai road users use the roads by the rules they learned as pedestrians.

If we want to use Thai roads then we need to play by the rules that apply.

Unfortunately many Thais believe this life is only part of a greater journey, so if their way ahead is mapped they do not have to worry about their own destiny.

Also the wish to avoid confrontation often leads them to not wanting to make eye contact - they do not look out of choice.

Now we can all go on about how bad the Thai drivers are but I have the same problems here in the UK. When riding my bike I have had pedestrians cross the road and unexpectedly pop out from in front of vehicles.

I have also had cars not see me and turn into my path. I have also been told that an accident was "obviously my fault as I was a biker"!

These sort of accidents happen everywhere, every day, all the time.

If we can move on from trying to apportion blame to some nasty criminal so we can all feel better as "it was him that dun it!!!"

We can all take it as a lesson to look out for gaps just incase something is emerging.

Or not just assuming that stepping out from between a line of cars will be safe.

And maybe when there is a lot going on and loads of people about, riding with a bit more 'due care and consideration' is better than just trying to beat the traffic.

gaps-traps.png?w=553&h=221

There is a very interesting page on the No Surprise / No Accident Website on Prediction Failure

The nice thing with our emerging new approach to road safety is that it is from the ground up. Rather than expecting everyone else to change we look to learning to adapt to how things are and look after our own safety. If everyone did it then we would all be a lot safer. But even on UK roads I know people brake the rules. I have battled Insurance companies for payouts and claims after being run off the road. Never corrects the wrong - I still have issues with injuries.

Far better to avoid the accident rather than deal with the aftermath. No Surprise / No Accident

thairoadcraft.wordpress.com

Better known as defensive driving.

Undoubtedly some Thai people drive defensively while I am sure 80 percent of them do not.

All too many of them just go for it when they can, making matters all the worse.

I take taxis all the time and I usually watch all the driving antics going on around me and my conclusion is all too many of them are big risk takers by way of routinely performing driving maneuvers that are acknowledged as dangerous or very risky and or jeopardizing them selves and numerous other peoples lives around them while driving on the roads.

Of course they are not the only ones in the world but they are amongst the most careless and dangerous drivers at large in comparison to other countries while the road accidents and fatalities by the numbers are consistently high.

The average Thai driver considers themselves to be good drivers...but..... that is Thai Style good or skillful driving, in their minds, which actually means they successfully pull off dangerous or aggressive maneuvers on a regular basis and get away with it without getting into an accident or hurt while often just narrowly avoiding a collision....because.... they skillfully orchestrated their good driving abilities...... and proud of it I would surmise.

I can assure you they begin to believe they are good drivers because they get there faster and they "arrived alive"

Meantime, a lot of what they learn as drivers and then put into practice is based on: Monkey See...Monkey Do type driving habits because they see others driving on the wrong side of the road to pass others on a routine basis and get ahead of the others so many of them do it because they see others doing it....all the time ...as in, all the time.

There is no motorcycle driver that does not weave in and out of the traffic and use the opposite on coming lane to his advantage and or pas on the inside or go in between the curb and vehicles while they feel they are not at fault if they hit anyone or get into an accident of any nature because in their minds : Everyone knows and everyone does that anyhow so it is not wrong or illegal ..in their minds...rather all just part of the traffic conditions that they skillfully drive about in everyday and becomes routine for everyone...so they are not to be blamed because everyone does the same...in their minds that is.

Defensive driving is not on their minds at all and not part of their driving mentality and never will be.

I would like to read the Many accident reports on file with the motor vehicle insurance companies and gain an insight into what all the various parties have to say or argue about when they do get into an accident and claim they are not at fault ...but they were at fault and proven as so or it is obviously understood they caused the accident.

Cheers

Posted

Why is it that hardly anyone is raising the issue of the pedestrian not attending to the motorcyclist, who could’ve been seriously injured? He simply dusts himself off and walks away. Isn't that 'hit and run', whoever is to blame? This seemingly cavalier or selfish attitude is contributory reason for the prevalent road accidents.

I don’t see any ‘no passing’ line at the centre line, so vehicles can pass on the “wrong side” of the street, but the motorcyclist probably doesn’t know what 'defensive driving' is. By partly walking along the centre line, the pedestrian is similarly careless.

Posted

Defensive driving is not on their minds at all and not part of their driving mentality and never will be.

I would like to read the Many accident reports on file with the motor vehicle insurance companies and gain an insight into what all the various parties have to say or argue about when they do get into an accident and claim they are not at fault ...but they were at fault and proven as so or it is obviously understood they caused the accident.

Cheers

I do get a daily update from various Thai first responders and I can assure you many Thai's do not fit your stereotype.

Also many drivers all over the world brake rules every day. For example in the UK there has been a ongoing debate between road safety professionals on the zero tolerance approach. Currently the normal level of speed camera 'flash' is at ten percent +2mph

You assume that Thai's are unique at trying to avoid blame, that is a common trait also found throughout the world, it is human nature.

We can all fall fowl of correspondence bias as well.

Question is in a similar situation would you want to be looking to find blame after the accident or would you prefer to just avoid the confrontation and get on with your day?

The problem is that for to many Thai's the 'Mai Pen Rai' attitude means it will not change soon, but that does not change many others from trying.

72% of the road fatalities in Thailand are reported as being motorcycle accidents. 90% of them are on small bikes. Also by far the majority of them are in the 15 to 19 age group.

There are now lots of Big Bike Clubs all over Thailand, Thousands of Riders doing Thousands of miles. Their years of experience keep them alive.

Experience counts, it is how we all avoid things - "Once bitten - twice shy" The issue is with using a motor vehicle that being 'bitten' is not really the best way to learn as it can often be painful and expensive. What is lacking in the Thai system is that level of general training in how to use the roads.

Yesterday a guy was blaming a wet road for not being able to stop, well if he has never been shown how to stop a van on a wet surface then what he is saying is perfectly correct.

How can you fault someone who has never been shown how to do it differently?

You do not know what you do not know.

Also just following the rules is not going to keep you alive. Stopping at a red light is great as long as the vehicle behind you stops as well.

By the survival of the fittest the techniques that keep riders alive are the ones passed on to others the most.

Hence people crossing junctions early to avoid stopping and going against the flow.

Accidents like the OP will continue happening currently thousands of times a day. All we can do is try our best to avoid them.

Posted

Rule 7 (D) of the British Highway Code (applying to pedestrians): "If traffic is coming, let it pass. Look all around again and listen. Do not cross until there is a safe gap in the traffic and you are certain that there is plenty of time. Remember, even if traffic is a long way off, it may be approaching very quickly."

I know we are not in the UK but I have respect for this well written document which is pretty much 100% common sense. Clearly the motorcyclist is driving in a manner that renders him not blameless but the pedestrian, also, must take his share of blame.

the motorcycle was in the wrong lane. the BHC has nothing to do with Thailand

No, not apart from the Thai HC being lifted almost entirely from the British one whistling.gif

Posted

Rule 7 (D) of the British Highway Code (applying to pedestrians): "If traffic is coming, let it pass. Look all around again and listen. Do not cross until there is a safe gap in the traffic and you are certain that there is plenty of time. Remember, even if traffic is a long way off, it may be approaching very quickly."

I know we are not in the UK but I have respect for this well written document which is pretty much 100% common sense. Clearly the motorcyclist is driving in a manner that renders him not blameless but the pedestrian, also, must take his share of blame.

the motorcycle was in the wrong lane. the BHC has nothing to do with Thailand

No, not apart from the Thai HC being lifted almost entirely from the British one whistling.gif

and then missing out some of the important bits like how to use a box junction or which way to give way to ermm.gif

Posted

This news forum is getting worse. This should be posted somewhere else as it isn't news. Random articles from a poor amateurish online 'newspaper' seems to be a daily occurrence. Coconuts or stickboy are pathetic - stick to the real news.

I take your comments to infer that you don't drive in Thailand.

Because the poor driving habits of motorcyclists in this country is the major cause of their demise. And this is REAL news.

Take what you want mate. I've driven a car for 30 years here. I very rarely drive a motorcycle. they are for people that can't afford cars. No sane person chooses to ride a motorcycle in a Thai city.

I have a car and several different engine sizes bikes, I prefer the bikes anytime in bkk traffic...

Posted

Class act! The pedestrian who caused the crash walks away while a fellow human being lays motionless in the road. Nice.

The pedestrian didn't "cause" the collision. The driver who was speeding in the wrong lane is 100% responsible. Traffic in the left lane had stopped when the pedestrian made his way to the middle of the road. He was in the right lane when hit. There are no sidewalks either. Had the splayed driver not been speeding on the wrong side of the road this would not have occurred. He deserved to lie there in pain. Maybe it gave him an opportunity to consider his selfish dangerous driving style.

Posted

Class act! The pedestrian who caused the crash walks away while a fellow human being lays motionless in the road. Nice.

are you blind?

the motorcycle was in the wrong lane and hit the pedestrian.

Posted

As is the case with many accidents both parties were negligent.

One seemingly jaywalking across the road and coming out between parked vehicles, and the motorcyclist on the wrong side of the road and not looking where he was going.

Watch the video again. He clearly looked in both directions before crossing the yellow line to the other side of the road and was on his way across watching the other traffic coming towards him. The motorbike was on the wrong side of the road overtaking all the cars. The road was wet and HE hit the pedestrian when HE should not have been on that side of the road.

He was indeed looking around him although he was not crossing at a good location, and he appeared to step in front of the bike. The lines in the Rd do not suggest overtaking is not permitted. One has to look for traffic coming from unexpected directions here.... you can get mowed down on a pavement.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...