Thailand declares war on United States and Britain, Jan. 25, 1942

[HerbalEd]

For those who are interested, I just downloaded for free a PDF of the entire book, Thailand's Secret War: The Free Thai, OSS, and SOE During Word War ll.

Download here:

http://www.ereading.club/bookreader.php/138836/Thailand%60s_Secret_War:_The_Free_Thai,_OSS,_and_SOE_during_World_War_II.pdf

Sorry. The long web address I pasted into my post does not fully show when I posted.

Try searching Google for "ereading.club" AND "Thailand's Secret War: The Free Thai, OSS, and SOE During Word War ll

Edited January 25, 2016 by HerbalEd

[gandalf12]

So is the UK and Thailand still technically at war? If so all Brits could be taken as prisoners of war (that will mess up the 90 day reporting)

[kannot]

This report is just ridiculous, it doesn't tell the whole story!

The mayor reason that Thailand sided with Japan was that Japan promised to get Thailand back the land France had occupied from Thailand for their colonies in Cambodia and Laos. And the Brits had taken parts of Thailand to their colonize of Burma and Malaysia. Saying that Thailand should have sided with the allies is the same as saying that France should have sided with Germany when they invaded!!!

220px-Siam_territoral_losses.gif

I believe that this is one of the reasons why we as foreigners can't buy land in Thailand today!

but but i thought the great thai nation had never been colonized................they just took it bit by bit instead

[Enoon]

Perhaps they are grateful that the USA was so magnanimous after the war because The Brits and French would have preferred a different approach. But Thailand seems keen to embrace a different version of the East Asia co-prosperity sphere for the future, with a new mentor

It really is an interesting history, how in Washington's eyes war was never officially declared because, unlike in London, the Thai ambassador refused to deliver the declaration.

I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall listening to the U.S. resist British demands for reparations (which in my opinion they were owed).

Here we go again.The repetition of the hoary old myth that the Thai ambassador in Washington, MR Seni Pramoj, locked the declaration of war in his desk and thus enabled the post war government to argue Thailand had never been at war with the allies.

It's a good story.It's true Seni was sympathetic to the Seri Thai and it's true the British/ French desire for reparations was blocked by the US.But the suggestion war was never officially declared by the Thais is nonsense.The declaration was officially conveyed by the Thais and the US State Department has confirmed this and of course holds the original.

I'm not saying you're incorrect ... as I'd like to know the real true history ... but do you have a credibly reference for this side of the story?

Thailand's Secret War: OSS, SOE and the Free Thai ...

Page 20

Edited January 25, 2016 by Enoon

[jesimps]

This report is just ridiculous, it doesn't tell the whole story!

The mayor reason that Thailand sided with Japan was that Japan promised to get Thailand back the land France had occupied from Thailand for their colonies in Cambodia and Laos. And the Brits had taken parts of Thailand to their colonize of Burma and Malaysia. Saying that Thailand should have sided with the allies is the same as saying that France should have sided with Germany when they invaded!!!

220px-Siam_territoral_losses.gif

I believe that this is one of the reasons why we as foreigners can't buy land in Thailand today!

"....same as saying that France should have sided with Germany...."

Half of it did!

[Enoon]

From Wikipedia - Although the Thai ambassador in London had delivered Phibun's declaration of war to the British government, the Thai ambassador in Washington DC, Seni Pramoj, refused to do so. Accordingly, the United States did not declare war on Thailand. With American assistance, Seni, a conservative aristocrat with well established anti-Japanese credentials, organised the Free Thai Movement in the United States, recruiting Thai students to work with the United States Office of Strategic Services (OSS). Seni was able to achieve this because the State Department decided to act as if Seni continued to represent Thailand, enabling him to draw on Thai assets frozen by the United States.^[12]

The US received the declaration, but not from Seni:

Thailand's Secret War: OSS, SOE and the Free Thai ...

Page 20

Edited January 25, 2016 by Enoon

[wwest5829]

Don't see this historical citation as newsworthy and a shortened misleading headline! The economy, international relations and political stability in LOS are a powder keg right now... Articles like this bring bowl & spoon to mind.

On the contrary, it is a bit of history few Thais are taught and is an important part of the development of S.E Asian relations to this day. Brief but conciese article.

Agree but, as an American, I would have enjoyed seeing the article include the refusal of the Thai Embassy in Washington, D.C. to deliver the declaration.

[billd766]

Thai politicians who opposed the Japanese alliance were sacked from the government of Prime Minister Pridi Phanomyong, known as Phibun, who was appointed acting regent for King Ananda Mahidol.

Maybe I am reading the above wrong but surely Pridi and Phibun are two different people? Seems like a major mistake in the piece....

Two totally different people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pridi_Banomyong

As Minister of Foreign Affairs from 1935 to 1937, Pridi signed treaties revoking the extraterritorial rights of 12 countries.^[9] With these treaties, Thailand was able to regain complete independence with regard to legal jurisdiction and taxation for the first time since the unequal treaties were signed under duress during the reign of King Rama IV.^[10]

Although he had been friends with Field Marshal Phibunsongkhram during the early days of the People's Party, the two fell out in the following years. Pridi was violently anti-Japanese as well as a left-leaning, and therefore opposed many of Phibun's militaristic policies which tended to be more conciliatory toward the Japanese. The antipathy between the two characters would define how Thailand fared by World War II when Japan was quickly consuming territory in Asia.

Free Thai movement

Main article: Free Thai Movement

On 8 December 1941, Imperial Japan launched its attacks on Southeast Asia and the Allied possessions in the region, which resulted in the full development of the Pacific War. This included numerous amphibious landings in Thailand and an invasion across the border from French Indochina. After initially resisting, the Thai government reluctantly agreed to let the Japanese pass through the country and use its military bases to strike other Allied possessions in the region, including the Battle of Malaya.

When Field Marshal Plaek Phibunsongkhram issued a declaration of war against Britain and the United States in January 1942, however, Pridi refused to sign it. As a result, he was effectively demoted by Phibun to the figurehead role of Regent for the young monarch, who was studying in Switzerland. In this capacity, Pridi built up the anti-Japanese underground Free Thai Movement ("Seri Thai") network in Thailand. Codenamed "Ruth", he established contact with the Allies and the parallel Thai resistance organisations based in Britain and the United States. As the war progressed and the fortunes of the Japanese turned, public dissatisfaction grew and Phibun was forced to resign as prime minister in 1944. Eventually, in August 1944, the parliament chose Pridi to be the 'regent' as the king had left the country for doing his study in Switzerland.

According to Wikipedia the PM of Thailand from 16 December 1938 to 1st August 1944 was

Field Marshal Plaek Phibunsongkhram

(1897–1964) 9 16 December 1938

(House of Representatives Resolution) 7 March 1942

(Resignation: Cabinet Reshuffle) 5 years, 229 days 26 December 1938 Khana Ratsadon

(Military faction) 10 7 March 1942

(House of Representatives Resolution) 1 August 1944

(Resignation: Parliamentary Disapproval of "Petchaboon Municipality Act") 16 March 1942

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Thailand

[geriatrickid]

This report is just ridiculous, it doesn't tell the whole story!

The mayor reason that Thailand sided with Japan was that Japan promised to get Thailand back the land France had occupied from Thailand for their colonies in Cambodia and Laos. And the Brits had taken parts of Thailand to their colonize of Burma and Malaysia. Saying that Thailand should have sided with the allies is the same as saying that France should have sided with Germany when they invaded!!!

I believe that this is one of the reasons why we as foreigners can't buy land in Thailand today!

Not exactly. You fail to mention how Siam had originally come by much of the territory it subsequently lost. Remember 1767, when the Kingdom of Ayutthaya was defeated by the Burmese? Much of the country of Siam you claim was stolen by foreigners was never held by the Siamese and was in fact taken from others. Ever hear of the Kingdom of Chiang Mai? Do you even know how the British allowed Siam to annex that kingdom? Chiang Mai's Princess Dararasmi was made a concubine of Chulangkorn's brother. That was in the late 1860's. How about 1909 and the British transfer of the three independent sultanates on the Malaysian border? That bitter land dispute is still going on today.

In plain language, the Thai actions were a self serving land grab meant to expand Thailand. The reference to a greater Thailand including parts of China is prescient, as it will be China that annexes part of Thailand over time. The USA blundered when it blocked the British efforts to change things in Thailand, but then the USA never had an intelligent or an effective policy in SE Asia.

[smotherb]

And Thailand, once again, is turning their backs on the West and embracing their new BFF in China.

History repeating itself.

But will the US and other allies simply "forgive & forget" when it all goes sour for the LOS - again? I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

China was an ally in WWII; in fact, China is where WWII started.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

I suggest the "Editor looks at this, which is what actually happened....

In December 1941, Japanese troops demanded free passage through Thailand in order to invade British Malaya and Burma. Thailand agreed, and later signed a military alliance with Japan, but it didn’t participate in the invasion of Malaya or Burma. As a member of the Germany-Japan Axis, Thailand was technically at war with Britain, America and other Allies. But the Thai ambassador to Washington, whose sympathies lay with the Allies, refused to deliver the formal declaration to the US government so the two countries were never at war. Thailand did host a small but determined anti-Japanese resistance movement called Seri Thai that received US support. But it only made a marginal contribution to Japan’s defeat in 1945.

[smotherb]

This report is just ridiculous, it doesn't tell the whole story!

The mayor reason that Thailand sided with Japan was that Japan promised to get Thailand back the land France had occupied from Thailand for their colonies in Cambodia and Laos. And the Brits had taken parts of Thailand to their colonize of Burma and Malaysia. Saying that Thailand should have sided with the allies is the same as saying that France should have sided with Germany when they invaded!!!

I believe that this is one of the reasons why we as foreigners can't buy land in Thailand today!

Not exactly. You fail to mention how Siam had originally come by much of the territory it subsequently lost. Remember 1767, when the Kingdom of Ayutthaya was defeated by the Burmese? Much of the country of Siam you claim was stolen by foreigners was never held by the Siamese and was in fact taken from others. Ever hear of the Kingdom of Chiang Mai? Do you even know how the British allowed Siam to annex that kingdom? Chiang Mai's Princess Dararasmi was made a concubine of Chulangkorn's brother. That was in the late 1860's. How about 1909 and the British transfer of the three independent sultanates on the Malaysian border? That bitter land dispute is still going on today.

In plain language, the Thai actions were a self serving land grab meant to expand Thailand. The reference to a greater Thailand including parts of China is prescient, as it will be China that annexes part of Thailand over time. The USA blundered when it blocked the British efforts to change things in Thailand, but then the USA never had an intelligent or an effective policy in SE Asia.

I wonder how the intelligent and effective Brit policies in SEA were blocked so successfully by those blundering Yanks.

[cyberfarang]

The Thais played a very clever strategic game and it paid off.

By keeping on friendly terms with the Japanese saved the country from total Japanese domination and not suffered the same fates as their neighbouring countries. Declaring war on the allied forces was a superficial act to appease the Japanese knowing full well that the Thais could never defeat the allied powers but again it saved Thailand, previously Siam, from Japanese domination and rule.

In the end this strategy probably saved many thousands of Thai lives and avoided the destruction of King and country.

Members of the Thai resistance movement, Seri Thai, pose for a photo. These men were trained by the British SOE and fought with covert operations behind enemy lines.

Edited January 25, 2016 by cyberfarang

[sgtsabai]

My wife's grandfather, who was born when this part of Issan was still Lao, never surrendered (never army?). He would be called a terrorist today but I'm damn proud to call him my grandpappa! Yea, and the first time I met him he looked me directly in the eye, something few Thais do, and said "I know him, same me" (translated from Lao). A great moment of relief (another story...lol) and pride. The family says tired of his stories when I tried to get them to do oral history of his life, arrrrggghhh. He knows more than all the Thai history books put together. Yes, Thais don't acknowledge WWII, don't ever think they don't know about it. There was even a soap opera some years back that featured WWII. And we will not speak of any OSS/CIA involvement here, then or now.

[Baerboxer]

This report is just ridiculous, it doesn't tell the whole story!

The mayor reason that Thailand sided with Japan was that Japan promised to get Thailand back the land France had occupied from Thailand for their colonies in Cambodia and Laos. And the Brits had taken parts of Thailand to their colonize of Burma and Malaysia. Saying that Thailand should have sided with the allies is the same as saying that France should have sided with Germany when they invaded!!!

I believe that this is one of the reasons why we as foreigners can't buy land in Thailand today!

Not exactly. You fail to mention how Siam had originally come by much of the territory it subsequently lost. Remember 1767, when the Kingdom of Ayutthaya was defeated by the Burmese? Much of the country of Siam you claim was stolen by foreigners was never held by the Siamese and was in fact taken from others. Ever hear of the Kingdom of Chiang Mai? Do you even know how the British allowed Siam to annex that kingdom? Chiang Mai's Princess Dararasmi was made a concubine of Chulangkorn's brother. That was in the late 1860's. How about 1909 and the British transfer of the three independent sultanates on the Malaysian border? That bitter land dispute is still going on today.

In plain language, the Thai actions were a self serving land grab meant to expand Thailand. The reference to a greater Thailand including parts of China is prescient, as it will be China that annexes part of Thailand over time. The USA blundered when it blocked the British efforts to change things in Thailand, but then the USA never had an intelligent or an effective policy in SE Asia.

I wonder how the intelligent and effective Brit policies in SEA were blocked so successfully by those blundering Yanks.

When you hold the purse strings, as the Americans did, after making sure their allies were in debt to two world wars, blocking your allies is easy.

Unfortunately, doesn't mean you've got any better ideas as we saw ably demonstrated in Vietnam and Laos.

[Baerboxer]

This report is just ridiculous, it doesn't tell the whole story!

The mayor reason that Thailand sided with Japan was that Japan promised to get Thailand back the land France had occupied from Thailand for their colonies in Cambodia and Laos. And the Brits had taken parts of Thailand to their colonize of Burma and Malaysia. Saying that Thailand should have sided with the allies is the same as saying that France should have sided with Germany when they invaded!!!

I believe that this is one of the reasons why we as foreigners can't buy land in Thailand today!

Not exactly. You fail to mention how Siam had originally come by much of the territory it subsequently lost. Remember 1767, when the Kingdom of Ayutthaya was defeated by the Burmese? Much of the country of Siam you claim was stolen by foreigners was never held by the Siamese and was in fact taken from others. Ever hear of the Kingdom of Chiang Mai? Do you even know how the British allowed Siam to annex that kingdom? Chiang Mai's Princess Dararasmi was made a concubine of Chulangkorn's brother. That was in the late 1860's. How about 1909 and the British transfer of the three independent sultanates on the Malaysian border? That bitter land dispute is still going on today.

In plain language, the Thai actions were a self serving land grab meant to expand Thailand. The reference to a greater Thailand including parts of China is prescient, as it will be China that annexes part of Thailand over time. The USA blundered when it blocked the British efforts to change things in Thailand, but then the USA never had an intelligent or an effective policy in SE Asia.

I wonder how the intelligent and effective Brit policies in SEA were blocked so successfully by those blundering Yanks.

When you hold the purse strings, as the Americans did, after making sure their allies were in debt to two world wars, blocking your allies is easy.

Unfortunately, doesn't mean you've got any better ideas as we saw ably demonstrated in Vietnam and Laos.

[EyesWideOpen]

Alliances have been made and broken , some good some bad

history shows Thailand made the wrong choice at that time ;

the choices made now Thailand , will be evaluated in history,

some good , some bad

The wrong choice? on a pragmatic level it was a briliantly lucky choice, they were spared the destruction and enslavement the Japs would have inflicted had they resisted and then when they lost, the Yanks forgave reparations.... brilliant.

Post WW2, Britain was so angry with Thailand in essence

they struck a deal with America to have Thailand ceded

to them. It was the ceaseless efforts of an American

woman, Betty McKenzie, who saved Thailand from this

fate. But instead of a statue in her honor, I suspect not

a single Thai knows who she is......... So their flawed

decision to cave into the Japanese was saved by

by the narrowest of threads.

Link here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drycTHle6fo

[JusMe]

Thailand really had no choice in the matter. They were quickly overrun and told what to do by a Japanese army. It is important to remember than an estimated 100,000 Thai people died under Japanese occupation building railways and other infrastructure for their military. Memorials to allied POW's are dwarfed by these losses that are rarely mentioned

Absolute rubbish. Thailand was not overrun - Phibun had previously agreed to Japanese troops crossing Thailand to Burma, Malaysia, and China in the north.

All those "local" people who died under Japanese building railways in Thailand, were from Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, India, and Burma. There were no Thais involved in building the Death Railway or any other Japanese infrastructure, other than a few paid labourers.

There are few memorials to the thousands of Asians who died during the war in atrocious conditions while working for and abandoned by the japanese, and their numbers are much greater than the prisoners of war who died, but no Thais were killed by the Japanese, so no memorials.

Occupied? Ask the Hungarians or Italians the difference between being an ally and occupied. Thailand was NEVER occupied by the Japanese.

[JusMe]

But the Thai ambassador to Washington, whose sympathies lay with the Allies, refused to deliver the formal declaration to the US government so the two countries were never at war. Thailand did host a small but determined anti-Japanese resistance movement called Seri Thai that received US support. But it only made a marginal contribution to Japan’s defeat in 1945.

First, both participants have denied that mythological story about the non-passage of the declaration of war. Second, an actual handing over of any piece of paper declaring war is unnecessary - a good bombardment is a clear declaration.

The "determined anti-Japanese resistance movement" was perhaps the best equipped, best communicative, best organized, and least effective of any anti-Axis resistance force during WWII.

Choose any country actually occupied by the Axis forces and check the numbers of civilians who were imprisoned, tortured, killed by the military or occupying police forces. The Kempetai did not torture or kill any Thais during the war. They were present, and feared for their reputation, but actually did nothing in Thailand.

One could emphasize the Seri Thai marginal contribute to Japan's defeat as insignificant. They did provide bombing targets and damage assessment of the ports and other facilities in Bangkok, and helped a few downed Allied air personnel, even embarrassed the Japanese on occasion, but as an organization did absolutely nothing to help the suffering prisoners of war.

There is circumstantial evidence to suggest that they were inactive as a force because they were being to overthrow any Thai government the moment the war ended so that Pridi could take over. The sudden end of the war meant they stayed in place, were disarmed, and managed to have a "victory" parade in Bangkok.

[puukao]

sorry.......my internet is on 14.4 dial-up....

all i saw was , "Thailand declares war on united states...."

I just cancelled all my plans.

visa cancelled.

lost $5,000 USD....but i am glad i caught this in time!!!

good luck to everyone over there!!!!!

[JusMe]

Always doubt Wikipedia, and most particularly anything about Thailand.

For basics about Thai-British-Australian relations during WWII, read the original documents:

[captspectre]

So essentially the same now, but China instead of Japan.

Thailand was a rug that the Japanese just walked right in on! no army, no navy and no desire to get into a fight with anyone, they never had a war or victory, just a country laying around for anyone to come in and shop around! they just sat around and waited for the winner to give them something! I never did figure out what the victory monument was all about in bangkok! the people were compasonate but the government was not much different than it is today.

[pedro01]

So the local expats can now take heart and see that Thailand had a feeling of disdain and disregards toward foreigners

than, as much as they have now... nothing changed....

Aaaah - wonderful.

An ignorant, xenophobic, comment based on total lack of knowledge of what happened and why.

My hat off to you sir, you lowered my IQ 10 points with your post.

[Pete Beale]

Thailand really had no choice in the matter. They were quickly overrun and told what to do by a Japanese army. It is important to remember than an estimated 100,000 Thai people died under Japanese occupation building railways and other infrastructure for their military. Memorials to allied POW's are dwarfed by these losses that are rarely mentioned

Who estimated that 100,000 Thais died, you ?

Lets see you sources for such a number.

[TomJoad]

"Phibun took dictatorial control of Thailand and became a puppet of the Japanese."

The Rest of the Story:

After the war, the Allies managed to get Phibun (the former puppet of Japan) put back in charge of Thailand. Predictably, Phibun created a strong, militaristic nation right in the heart of Southeast Asia. No coincidence that this was also the beginning of the Cold War (China had recently gone communist, so all the capitalists nations were shaking in their boots). Thailand became France and then the USA's strongest ally in the region.

Apparently, Phibun could be considered the reason Thailand today has a military that is stronger than its civilian government. Another unexpected legacy of the Vietnam War.

[geriatrickid]

I wonder how the intelligent and effective Brit policies in SEA were blocked so successfully by those blundering Yanks.

By money. If you recall, the British were in hock to the USA as it had been fighting the war for several years prior to the entry of the USA subsequent to the December 7, 1941 attack. May I also remind you that it was Churchill who did his utmost to stop the iron curtain coming down, who warned of the Soviet Union's expansionist plans. We'd all have been better off had the world listened to Winston.

Do not misinterpret my disappointment with the US political strategy as anti Americanism. One side of my family lived under the Japanese occupation. Unlike the wealthy Thais, the Dutch, English, White Russians and others resisted as best they could. I grew up hearing the stories of how the Japanese occupation forces would beat my family who had it much easier than the Chinese who would often be bayoneted for not moving fast enough or just because the Japanese wanted some fun. Even the expat Germans who resided in China were shocked by the cruelty of the Japanese. Had it not been for the US sacrifices in the asia, my family probably would have been executed along with the tens of thousands of other detainees and allied POWS.

The Japanese slaughtered thousands of Thais and raped Thai women just as they did in occupied Korea, the Philippines and Manchuria. The tragedy of Thailand is that no one was held responsible for the crimes against the Thai people. It is Thailand's dark secret that should be told. In France, Denmark and Holland, collaborators were dealt with. In Thailand, collaborators and profiteers were rewarded weren't they?

Edited January 26, 2016 by geriatrickid

[tominbkk]

It would be interesting to get Thai TV posters reaction on this. Not bashing at all. my home country the UK has many historical atrocities across the decades. I accept that. I Would like to know how Thai people feel here if the truth should be more prominent and people made aware of it, for the better.

I doubt most people here under 45 years old even know there was something called WW2.

[GreasyFingers]

Thank you to all of the history contributors. Good to know that some expats have studied Thai history and passed it on here.

[trainman34014]

This report is just ridiculous, it doesn't tell the whole story!

The mayor reason that Thailand sided with Japan was that Japan promised to get Thailand back the land France had occupied from Thailand for their colonies in Cambodia and Laos. And the Brits had taken parts of Thailand to their colonize of Burma and Malaysia. Saying that Thailand should have sided with the allies is the same as saying that France should have sided with Germany when they invaded!!!

220px-Siam_territoral_losses.gif

I believe that this is one of the reasons why we as foreigners can't buy land in Thailand today!

My assessment has always been the majority of France and its people DID side with Germany after they invaded. Far more than they will ever admit !

[JimGant]

after making sure their allies were in debt to two world wars

Yeah, I guess we did force those Old World countries into debt, after they had the audacity to start two world wars in Europe, then couldn't pay for them. Shame on us for providing loans -- then troops -- to aid the continuance of these European follies. If we hadn't butted in, with our bankers and soldiers, Europe would now be happily either fascist, or communist. Either way, no big deal to the Yanks -- plus, they would have saved a bundle -- not to mention tens-of-thousands of American lives -- by not funding these wars. Then, stupidity upon stupidity, having to provide Marshall Plan money to rebuild those sorry countries. Shame on us, for sure.