Problem At BKK Airport [Multiple Entry Tourist Visa]

[Maestro]

It is possible to get a tax ID card and pay taxes, respectively file a tax return and claim a refund of taxes withheld at the source, eg by banks on interest payments or dividends.

[ardokano]

They don't need farangs anymore they have Chinese.

Chinese tour tourists don't drink; don't do drugs, don't patron brothels, don't overstay and don't commit crimes.

They just come, spend money and GO!

1. Evry year have News have arested chines for trafficing drugs in Thai.

2. Many chines owner shop sell fake production.

Chines crime comunity have in many way in Thailand.

Chines drink but its no need to much be drunk.

[bkkcanuck8]

Forget about this theoretical 183 days residence tax nonsense.

It simply doesn't apply in Thailand. As long as you don't have a non-B or non-O and work permit and are thus legally working here, you don't pay taxes and you CAN'T even pay taxes if you wanted to, without these documents.

Western countries may be different (although again I doubt this if you are say an international student and not working) but in Thailand, resident, shmesident, it's irrelevant. If you aren't working here you are usually defined as being a "tourist" by Thai immigration and the Thai authorities in general. It doesn't matter that you've just spent 290 days out of 365 days in Thailand, as long as you don't have a legal working visa and work permit, you are neither liable, nor eligible to pay taxes. Nor are you likely to be considered a "resident" either.

Thai tax guys seem to disagree.

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

They may not enforce it just yet, but it's pretty black and white. Could also be the next loophole that slams shut. I can only imagine the stampede toward the first class departure lounge if they decide to tax retirees' pensions and investment income. Which is why I suspect they haven't enforced it... Still just a little scary.

Edit: And anyone can pay taxes in Thailand. There's even a form for it. But since paying taxes doesn't give legal status to stay in the country, I imagine they gather a lot of dust at the revenue office.

It is not enforced that way because it would become a nightmare when it comes to things like Pension Income. Since digital nomad is not "seen" (aka enforced) as working in Thailand if the income is not made from Thai sources (and if it is you require a work permit) -- it would be more likely grouped into the same category as "Pension Income". It would become a nightmare (and potentially seriously dent the retirement business) if they suddenly started auditing any foreigner holding a bank account receiving money from offshore. Like many countries, what is written is not how it is enforced.... it is all subject to interpretation.

If they "slam it shut" they don't shoot themselves in the foot, they blow the whole leg off.

[Suphan]

_{Going back to the original post}

_{You spent around 9 Months last year in Thailand on a Tourist Visa, guessing multiple entry plus extensions?}

_{Then you left for 4 Months, 9+4 is 13 and you have just come back after being out for a 4 days?}

_{You must of had 4 extensions if you say you have one already this year.}

_{Immigration are only going on what the database brings up, in this case you have entered the Kingdom by chance and maybe refused re entry if you leave.}

_{Visa extensions are being abused and this is what is happening to people, new laws are now enforced from 15th November last year because of this sort of abuse.}

_{Advise is to get the correct Visa in future and don't abuse the system or piss off any Immigration officers, they have the last laugh.}

[ubonjoe]

_{Going back to the original post}

_{You spent around 9 Months last year in Thailand on a Tourist Visa, guessing multiple entry plus extensions?}

_{Then you left for 4 Months, 9+4 is 13 and you have just come back after being out for a 4 days?}

_{You must of had 4 extensions if you say you have one already this year.}

_{Immigration are only going on what the database brings up, in this case you have entered the Kingdom by chance and maybe refused re entry if you leave.}

_{Visa extensions are being abused and this is what is happening to people, new laws are now enforced from 15th November last year because of this sort of abuse.}

_{Advise is to get the correct Visa in future and don't abuse the system or piss off any Immigration officers, they have the last laugh.}

Could you please supply a link to those to new laws. I seen nothing to support your statement anywhere.

[Suphan]

_{Going back to the original post}

_{You spent around 9 Months last year in Thailand on a Tourist Visa, guessing multiple entry plus extensions?}

_{Then you left for 4 Months, 9+4 is 13 and you have just come back after being out for a 4 days?}

_{You must of had 4 extensions if you say you have one already this year.}

_{Immigration are only going on what the database brings up, in this case you have entered the Kingdom by chance and maybe refused re entry if you leave.}

_{Visa extensions are being abused and this is what is happening to people, new laws are now enforced from 15th November last year because of this sort of abuse.}

_{Advise is to get the correct Visa in future and don't abuse the system or piss off any Immigration officers, they have the last laugh.}

Could you please supply a link to those to new laws. I seen nothing to support your statement anywhere.

New Multiple Entry Visa requirements are solely down to Visa extension abuse.

You can now only stay 6 months at 60 day max a time http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/574

[Suphan]

_{Going back to the original post}

_{You spent around 9 Months last year in Thailand on a Tourist Visa, guessing multiple entry plus extensions?}

_{Then you left for 4 Months, 9+4 is 13 and you have just come back after being out for a 4 days?}

_{You must of had 4 extensions if you say you have one already this year.}

_{Immigration are only going on what the database brings up, in this case you have entered the Kingdom by chance and maybe refused re entry if you leave.}

_{Visa extensions are being abused and this is what is happening to people, new laws are now enforced from 15th November last year because of this sort of abuse.}

_{Advise is to get the correct Visa in future and don't abuse the system or piss off any Immigration officers, they have the last laugh.}

Could you please supply a link to those to new laws. I seen nothing to support your statement anywhere.

New Multiple Entry Visa requirements are solely down to Visa extension abuse.

You can now only stay 6 months at 60 day max a time http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/574

http://thaiconsul.co.uk.xdeb.xps-ltd.com/news.php?p=8

[PomRakBKK]

Similar experience with Non-O based on marriage in December 2015. Didn't extend my 60 day extension and was held for at least 10 minutes by the I/O while she flicked through my passport. She was totally confused why I didn't get an extension and I tried to explain her that I need to cancel the visa to get another one so I have to enter on the 30 day stamp.

I called the thai elite visa afterwards, asking them to provide a letter for me that I will re-enter the country without extending my current visa, so I can obtain the elite visa. Needles to say I was biting on granite..

Unless you know someone who can provide an airport walkthrough for you, you are taking a gamble...

[Buddumber]

_{Going back to the original post}

_{You spent around 9 Months last year in Thailand on a Tourist Visa, guessing multiple entry plus extensions?}

_{Then you left for 4 Months, 9+4 is 13 and you have just come back after being out for a 4 days?}

_{You must of had 4 extensions if you say you have one already this year.}

_{Immigration are only going on what the database brings up, in this case you have entered the Kingdom by chance and maybe refused re entry if you leave.}

_{Visa extensions are being abused and this is what is happening to people, new laws are now enforced from 15th November last year because of this sort of abuse.}

_{Advise is to get the correct Visa in future and don't abuse the system or piss off any Immigration officers, they have the last laugh.}

Could you please supply a link to those to new laws. I seen nothing to support your statement anywhere.

New Multiple Entry Visa requirements are solely down to Visa extension abuse.

You can now only stay 6 months at 60 day max a time http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/574

only says that UK'er and Irish are abusing the Immigration officers not anyone else

Edited February 8, 2016 by Buddumber

[Tomtomtom69]

Forget about this theoretical 183 days residence tax nonsense.

It simply doesn't apply in Thailand. As long as you don't have a non-B or non-O and work permit and are thus legally working here, you don't pay taxes and you CAN'T even pay taxes if you wanted to, without these documents.

Western countries may be different (although again I doubt this if you are say an international student and not working) but in Thailand, resident, shmesident, it's irrelevant. If you aren't working here you are usually defined as being a "tourist" by Thai immigration and the Thai authorities in general. It doesn't matter that you've just spent 290 days out of 365 days in Thailand, as long as you don't have a legal working visa and work permit, you are neither liable, nor eligible to pay taxes. Nor are you likely to be considered a "resident" either.

Thai tax guys seem to disagree.

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

They may not enforce it just yet, but it's pretty black and white. Could also be the next loophole that slams shut. I can only imagine the stampede toward the first class departure lounge if they decide to tax retirees' pensions and investment income. Which is why I suspect they haven't enforced it... Still just a little scary.

Edit: And anyone can pay taxes in Thailand. There's even a form for it. But since paying taxes doesn't give legal status to stay in the country, I imagine they gather a lot of dust at the revenue office.

Wrong.

Try paying taxes in Thailand without a work permit. You'll either be told to come back with your work permit, salary slips, passport etc. etc. and/or laughed out of the office.

[Buddumber]

pension income sent into thailand is taxed at 300 baht per remittance over and above bank fees.

oh and you dont need a work permit for this tax to be applied.LOL

Edited February 8, 2016 by Buddumber

[ubonjoe]

pension income sent into thailand is taxed at 300 baht per remittance over and above bank fees.

oh and you dont need a work permit for this tax to be applied.LOL

Nonsense

There is no tax deducted as far as I know. It certainly has never been deducted from mine.

[elviajero]

Forget about this theoretical 183 days residence tax nonsense.

It simply doesn't apply in Thailand. As long as you don't have a non-B or non-O and work permit and are thus legally working here, you don't pay taxes and you CAN'T even pay taxes if you wanted to, without these documents.

Western countries may be different (although again I doubt this if you are say an international student and not working) but in Thailand, resident, shmesident, it's irrelevant. If you aren't working here you are usually defined as being a "tourist" by Thai immigration and the Thai authorities in general. It doesn't matter that you've just spent 290 days out of 365 days in Thailand, as long as you don't have a legal working visa and work permit, you are neither liable, nor eligible to pay taxes. Nor are you likely to be considered a "resident" either.

Thai tax guys seem to disagree.

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

They may not enforce it just yet, but it's pretty black and white. Could also be the next loophole that slams shut. I can only imagine the stampede toward the first class departure lounge if they decide to tax retirees' pensions and investment income. Which is why I suspect they haven't enforced it... Still just a little scary.

Edit: And anyone can pay taxes in Thailand. There's even a form for it. But since paying taxes doesn't give legal status to stay in the country, I imagine they gather a lot of dust at the revenue office.

Wrong.

Try paying taxes in Thailand without a work permit. You'll either be told to come back with your work permit, salary slips, passport etc. etc. and/or laughed out of the office.

You are wrong, again! If you have a tax ID, file a tax return with the Revenue Department, and have a tax liability they will happily take your money and don't give a stuff about work permits.

Fortunately, although anyone considered resident for tax is obligated, the Revenue Department do not insist that we file tax returns. Probably because with double taxation agreements the revenue collected would be minimal.

[elviajero]

Forget about this theoretical 183 days residence tax nonsense.

It simply doesn't apply in Thailand. As long as you don't have a non-B or non-O and work permit and are thus legally working here, you don't pay taxes and you CAN'T even pay taxes if you wanted to, without these documents.

Western countries may be different (although again I doubt this if you are say an international student and not working) but in Thailand, resident, shmesident, it's irrelevant. If you aren't working here you are usually defined as being a "tourist" by Thai immigration and the Thai authorities in general. It doesn't matter that you've just spent 290 days out of 365 days in Thailand, as long as you don't have a legal working visa and work permit, you are neither liable, nor eligible to pay taxes. Nor are you likely to be considered a "resident" either.

Thai tax guys seem to disagree.

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

They may not enforce it just yet, but it's pretty black and white. Could also be the next loophole that slams shut. I can only imagine the stampede toward the first class departure lounge if they decide to tax retirees' pensions and investment income. Which is why I suspect they haven't enforced it... Still just a little scary.

Edit: And anyone can pay taxes in Thailand. There's even a form for it. But since paying taxes doesn't give legal status to stay in the country, I imagine they gather a lot of dust at the revenue office.

It is not enforced that way because it would become a nightmare when it comes to things like Pension Income. Since digital nomad is not "seen" (aka enforced) as working in Thailand if the income is not made from Thai sources (and if it is you require a work permit) -- it would be more likely grouped into the same category as "Pension Income". It would become a nightmare (and potentially seriously dent the retirement business) if they suddenly started auditing any foreigner holding a bank account receiving money from offshore. Like many countries, what is written is not how it is enforced.... it is all subject to interpretation.

If they "slam it shut" they don't shoot themselves in the foot, they blow the whole leg off.

The fact that DN's working in Thailand currently get away with it is irrelevant to any tax liability. Thailand uses self assessment and those living here more than 180 days in a tax year should file a tax return on any income brought in to the country.

[elviajero]

Absolute nonsense. If you live in Thailand more than six months in a tax year you are potentially liable for tax on income brought in to the country.

Many DN's and other remote workers living here full time claiming to be 'tourists' are potentially evading tax. You only need a tax ID to pay tax.

Resident for tax doesn't make you resident in the eyes of immigration. They consider anyone without PR a non-resident even though many of us reside/live here. We are non-immigrants being granted temporary permission to stay for various reasons that includes tourism.

It's legal to not pay tax as a digital nomad if you simply don't remit funds in the financial year that they're earned.

It's also not possible to pay taxes without a work permit, and not possible to get a work permit for working online. I'm sure if Thailand wanted me to pay taxes they'd find a way to enable me to.

The majority of the worlds workers live from month to month and I am absolutely sure that most DN's are the same. They will be sending money to Thailand as fast as they can earn it.

If you are paying tax in your home country then it is unlikely that there would be much, if any, tax due in Thailand, but I'm sure if you submitted a tax return and had a liability they would want you to pay.

Edited February 8, 2016 by elviajero

[balo]

Just stay in your home country until you hit 50 and then get a 1 year visa based on retirement. In the meantime you are more than welcome to visit for a short holiday .

[elviajero]

• There are no official (announced) limits on tourist visa extensions (other than one per entry), visits or the cumulative duration of stay.
• I think if you go to immigration you will get another extension and you'll be able to use your third entry as long as it's on or before the 'enter before' date.

Since 2006 immigration have been cracking down on long term "tourists" so this report doesn't surprise me at all!

Thailand has never stated they're cracking down on long term tourists, all press releases and news articles have mentioned illegal workers and criminals.

OP was still let in eventually. He's also essentially a digital nomad, good to see they get let in.

So you missed the announcement back in 2006 when they restricted tourists entering under the tourist visa exempt scheme to stay a maximum of 90 in 180 days.

You can deny reality all you like but since 2006 immigration have been making it harder for 'tourists' to stay long term. The latest being the abolition of longer term tourist visas being available locally to Thailand, and a definite policy of encouraging long term tourists to get a 'proper' visa. I would fill in the bits in between but there seems little point.

But then they cancelled that 90 in 180 days rule and it never came back... so I don't see how you draw a conclusion from that.

Anyway the 90 in 180 days wasn't a 'we don't like long term tourists' decision, it was a 'we think people are working physically in the country taking jobs from Thais, or involved in criminal activity, on visa exemptions' decision.

Then they realised there were other ways to rectify that without penalising tourists long term tourists who use them, so they cancelled it.

They've also given out free tourist visas at several points since 2006...

My conclusion is that 2006 was the start of a campaign to stop people claiming to be tourists from staying long term. Yes it was primarily because of illegal workers, but the restrictions then and since were applied to, and penalised, everyone. It wasn't/isn't just illegal workers taking jobs from Thais, it's all illegal workers.

The 90/180 policy was stopped because it was too hard to manage. Back then the computer system didn't supply the records it does today and IO's had to go through one's passport and physically count the number of days stayed within the rolling 180 days. I know that from personal experience. The replacement, that was also to prevent long term stays, was to limit land border entries to 15 days and remains to this day with the exception of a few countries. But the days of back to back visa exempt entries allowing long term stays are over.

The free tourist visas were because of the coup to encourage tourism, not endorse long term stays.

Since 2006 immigration have been pushing people with frequent visa exempt entries on to visas and then controlling the number of visas they could get locally. If it was intended that people should stay here long term on tourist visas there wouldn't be limits imposed at embassies/consulates close to Thailand. Prior to November last year you could probably stay here a couple of years with back to back visas from Vientiane, but now thats probably down to a year at best. Making people trawl SEA to get SETV's doesn't seem like a policy of encouraging long term stays for any group of tourists.

IMO the tourist visas place in the immigration system is to support short term typical tourists that spend their holiday/vacations here. Anyone that wants to stay long term is evidently being encouraged to buy a visa/extension for the purpose of their stay. As there is not a long term tourist visa or extension of stay available to 'tourists' it's an easy conclusion that they are not wanted under the current system, unless of course they pay for it.

Edited February 8, 2016 by elviajero

[itsuptome]

elvajero thanks for that perspective about the long term trend. It'd be hard to argue that Thailand hasn't been tightening up on long stayers of all kinds for a while.

I think forumgoers focus too much on hot button issues like "kicking out the low quality farangs." Let's not forget that there was a point when getting a work permit here didn't require 4 Thais on the payroll. There is a general, long-term trend of the country closing itself off IMO.

But back to the immediate reality, my understanding is that if a person enters on a valid tourist visa Immigration may deny them entry for one of the following reasons, and these reasons only:

• Not possessing or showing evidence of 20,000+ baht
• Not possessing a flight exiting the country
• Suspicion of working in Thailand

Is this correct?

The OP did say in this case that the officer seemed satisfied when he presented evidence of an exiting flight. But of course many people enter without this or the 20,000 baht.

It seems like questioning and warnings may currently be picking up a bit at the airports but not too many reports of people on tourist visas actually being refused (yet).

So the conservative approach would be that if you're coming here on a tourist visa, particularly if you've spent a lot of time in Thailand in the past, to enter the country with whatever evidence you can to satisfy all three conditions above.

[elviajero]

elvajero thanks for that perspective about the long term trend. It'd be hard to argue that Thailand hasn't been tightening up on long stayers of all kinds for a while.

I think forumgoers focus too much on hot button issues like "kicking out the low quality farangs." Let's not forget that there was a point when getting a work permit here didn't require 4 Thais on the payroll. There is a general, long-term trend of the country closing itself off IMO.

But back to the immediate reality, my understanding is that if a person enters on a valid tourist visa Immigration may deny them entry for one of the following reasons, and these reasons only:

• Not possessing or showing evidence of 20,000+ baht
• Not possessing a flight exiting the country
• Suspicion of working in Thailand

Is this correct?

The OP did say in this case that the officer seemed satisfied when he presented evidence of an exiting flight. But of course many people enter without this or the 20,000 baht.

It seems like questioning and warnings may currently be picking up a bit at the airports but not too many reports of people on tourist visas actually being refused (yet).

So the conservative approach would be that if you're coming here on a tourist visa, particularly if you've spent a lot of time in Thailand in the past, to enter the country with whatever evidence you can to satisfy all three conditions above.

1. Suspicion of working is probably the number one reason, or excuse, used if they want to deny entry as it doesn't seem to require any evidence. Immigration act; Section 12.3
2. You can be denied entry under Section 12.2 or possibly 9 for not having the means of living after entering, and the amount is currently 20k for tourist visa holders. It is also an MFA regulation for applying for a visa although rarely if ever applied.
3. I honestly don't know about not having a flight out of the country. I am sure it's in the regulations somewhere because it's often mentioned on forums, and IO's do sometimes ask about onward fights, but I have never seen the law or regulation that allows denial for this reason, or a report of someone being formally denied for this reason. An onward flight is an MFA requirement for applying for a visa so I assume that immigration put the onus on the embassies/consulates.

I am sure it is very rare for someone to get denied entry if holding a tourist visa unless they fall under any of the more serious reasons in Sections 12 or 16 of the immigration act. Immigration Act. And I think a big part of the increased scrutiny is also down to the terrorism alert.

IMO if any future restrictions for tourist visa holders happen they will come from when the visas are issued and not at the border. I also wouldn't be at all surprised if extensions of stay are restricted in the future as indicated by the IO in the OP, but we will have to wait and see if this report is a one off or a hint of things to come.

[natway09]

No, there is no exact time in the last year that can stay in Thailand, but the immigration lady laid it out for us 4 entries & you will be flagged.

Obviously if spend 9 months in a country other your own there is a reason & they are entitled to know what it is.

I get better treatment from Thai immigration than the UK happy people