Thai Citizenship vs Residency

[Valentine]

I recall a thread a while back which seemed to have the conclusion that if you were going to apply for residency why not go the citizenship route. It would be good to get thoughts from those who have done either. I am married to a Thai & have many consecutive 1 year extension of stay so should satisfy some criteria for both.

[ubonjoe]

Are you working with a work permit and paying taxes? Both require you have been doing that for 3 years to apply.

[jacky54]

Retirees are discriminated against in this regard.

[scorecard]

Retirees are discriminated against in this regard.

Can you name any country that easily / even at all, quickly and easily grants citizenship to retirees from other countries? I don't know any but correct me if I'm wrong.

There is also a good argument that people who have contributed to the development etc., of Thailand should have some priority.

[Valentine]

Are you working with a work permit and paying taxes? Both require you have been doing that for 3 years to apply.

I was until last year but my extension has always been based on marriage. If that is the case then I suppose I can forget about it.

[stevenl]

Are you working with a work permit and paying taxes? Both require you have been doing that for 3 years to apply.

I was until last year but my extension has always been based on marriage. If that is the case then I suppose I can forget about it.

I dont see why you should forget about it. I don't think the basis for the extension makes any difference, as long as you have been with workpermit and paying taxes.

I'm in the same situation and also considering the same, so interested in this thread.

[Badbanker]

You will need to be legally married to a Thai and on 3 consecutive extensions of stay to qualify. You also need to be paying tax and on a work permit for a substantial amount of this time at your time of application.

[papayasalad]

why do you want pay tax anyway.? if you are not a resident and over 50 you can stay long term and don't have to pay anything.

and residents can not even work without a work permit.

0 advantage to become a resident unless you want become a thai. you will always be a farang anyway.

[HikeFromLA]

BACKGROUND:

I would like to stay in The Kingdom. I am a marketing guy, writer, performer, I can make a living on the internet but can also help local businesses with various things. Have trusted local gf but am gunshy of a new on-the-books marriage. GF happy either way.

*****

So as I understand it, in order to become a Thai citizen, besides language proficiency, I would need 3 years working legally paying local income tax.

It seems like latter could be accomplished, for a non-techie, only by forming a Thai company, with, you know, in-laws and gf on the payroll, then working for it as key employee.

Seems OK.

Do I have it right?

Do I also need an on-the-books legal marriage to Thai gf?

Re retiree versus resident versus citizen:

retiree (or married guy) can stay 1 year between border runs...

resident can stay forever without visa runs or border runs...

citizen can stay forever with no exits, plus he can work etc

Do I have that correct?

Also - UbonJoe points out that residency and citizenship BOTH require work record... thus for a non-techie like me, for whom working locally requires the effort and expense of setting up a Thai company, one may as well go for full citizenship -- since one has done the hard part already, one may as well be able to continue to work, do business, profit from local business, without resriction. Thus citizenship ought to be the aim. Am I making sense?

Edited February 7, 2016 by HikeFromLA

[swampdonkey]

What do you mean "on the books marriage "

If you are not legally married

Then you are not married

You need a marriage certificate

To prove you are married

[HikeFromLA]

Too late to edit my above post, but...

Oh CRAP

Just found this thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/892734-non-immigrant-o-visa-multi-entry-work-permit/?utm_source=newsletter-20160206-1536&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=featured

it appears to say that "Non-O Visa" must be based on MARRIAGE in order to lead to citizenship

So much for my idea of starting a company and having future potential for citizenship...

SRRV retirement visa and business approach both losing luster... the marriage thing looking more intriguing...

{gulp}

PS As additional personal background, I should add that for an American a new passport is highly desirable, otherwise you are continually hounded by US and state laws, taxes, and banking regulations with worldwide reach...

[HikeFromLA]

What do you mean "on the books marriage "

If you are not legally married

Then you are not married

You need a marriage certificate

To prove you are married

Yes, exactly.

In most normal countries, including Thailand, shacking up does not carry legal consequences. Ditto with a religious ceremony. Only legal marriage, registered with government, has consequences. (USA and Philippines, btw, are dire exceptions.)

And legal marriage ANYWHERE can have annoying consequences SOMEWHERE, thus impinging one's freedom of travel and/or commerce. For example:

-----In some USA states, a married man needs wife's permission to buy property or incur debt. ("Baby can I buy this car, please? Pretty please?"

----In most Latin American countries, you cannot formally immigrate there without proof of divorce and letter from ex-wife saying you're all up-to-date on obligations. She'll happily write one for you, of course, so you can pursue young senoritas, right? And of course all such documents have to be notarized, consularized, apothecaried, hypothesized, or whatever the word is. And you generally have to fly back to your home country to do this kind of thing in person. A real hassle.

Anyway yes I quite agree, avoid legal marriage unless it furthers you in some concrete way.

Edited February 7, 2016 by HikeFromLA

[sunnyjim5]

What do you mean "on the books marriage "

If you are not legally married

Then you are not married

You need a marriage certificate

To prove you are married

Yes, exactly.

In most normal countries, including Thailand, shacking up does not carry legal consequences. Ditto with a religious ceremony. Only legal marriage, registered with government, has consequences. (USA and Philippines, btw, are dire exceptions.)

And legal marriage ANYWHERE can have annoying consequences SOMEWHERE, thus impinging one's freedom of travel and/or commerce. For example:

-----In some USA states, a married man needs wife's permission to buy property or incur debt. ("Baby can I buy this car, please? Pretty please?"

----In most Latin American countries, you cannot formally immigrate there without proof of divorce and letter from ex-wife saying you're all up-to-date on obligations. She'll happily write one for you, of course, so you can pursue young senoritas, right? And of course all such documents have to be notarized, consularized, apothecaried, hypothesized, or whatever the word is. And you generally have to fly back to your home country to do this kind of thing in person. A real hassle.

Anyway yes I quite agree, avoid legal marriage unless it furthers you in some concrete way.

OK we hear your opinion.

What was your question again please.

[bigt3116]

why do you want pay tax anyway.? if you are not a resident and over 50 you can stay long term and don't have to pay anything.

and residents can not even work without a work permit.

0 advantage to become a resident unless you want become a thai. you will always be a farang anyway.

Did you mean "white westerner" or did you mean foreigner ?

[kingstonkid]

Are you working with a work permit and paying taxes? Both require you have been doing that for 3 years to apply.

Joe

If I pay taxes for 3 years but do ot have a work permit do I have a chance or is it mandatory that I have both.

[scorecard]

why do you want pay tax anyway.? if you are not a resident and over 50 you can stay long term and don't have to pay anything.

and residents can not even work without a work permit.

0 advantage to become a resident unless you want become a thai. you will always be a farang anyway.

Well we all see it differently.

I've had PR for near 2 decades - the value to me is that I never have to apply again for any type of visa, and even much more important I have a 99% guarantee that I will never be separated from my Thai family, now including my Thai son his wife and their three kids - my three grandchildren who today my total life.

Edited February 8, 2016 by scorecard

[ubonjoe]

Are you working with a work permit and paying taxes? Both require you have been doing that for 3 years to apply.

Joe

If I pay taxes for 3 years but do ot have a work permit do I have a chance or is it mandatory that I have both.

You have to have both and a minimum income to apply.

[realenglish1]

Retirees are discriminated against in this regard.

Can you name any country that easily / even at all, quickly and easily grants citizenship to retirees from other countries? I don't know any but correct me if I'm wrong.

There is also a good argument that people who have contributed to the development etc., of Thailand should have some priority.

Yes I can name one that I know Its Panama after 5 years they will give you residency my Know it all

[GarryP]

For a foreign man - married to a Thai for three years, three consecutive years of of tax receipts (you need to maintain your work permit up to being granted citizenship). I was on a category B visa, but extensions were based on marriage not on my employment. Visit the Citizenship thread, there is a load of information there.

[thaiowl]

Have had PR since 2012. Makes life easy without the hassles of getting visas etc etc. Haven't given citizenship much thought.

[mesterm]

What are the actual benefits of a foreigner getting Thai citizenship?

[GarryP]

What are the actual benefits of a foreigner getting Thai citizenship?

If you have to ask that question, I wouldn't bother.

[dbrenn]

Are you working with a work permit and paying taxes? Both require you have been doing that for 3 years to apply.

I was until last year but my extension has always been based on marriage. If that is the case then I suppose I can forget about it.

As has been said elsewhere, you need an unbroken extension of stay and tax returns (form Por Ngor Dor 91) for the three years preceding your application. You need a work permit when you apply, and there is a minimum salary requirement of 30,000 Baht if married (80,000 Baht if not), but it's OK to have switched jobs in the preceding three years.

[bangkapi]

It's all about having a work permit and paying a lot of money to apply for the permanent residency lottery. If you get accepted, you can pretty much easily get citizenship after 5 years and jumping through a lot of arbitrary hoops.

[ozyjon]

My cousin was an Australian citizen/resident, about 20 years ago sold the

house and all decided to return to the old country in Europe to build a new

house, start a business and show the family what a great success they

turned out to be. Turn the clock forward to today, they are broke, their

huge mansion in ruins beyond repair, their children now adults are both

drug addicts, they don't have Australian citizenship and when we meet

and talk about it they often cry saying, why did we ever leave a first world

rich country for a poor third world country. ?

[GarryP]

It's all about having a work permit and paying a lot of money to apply for the permanent residency lottery. If you get accepted, you can pretty much easily get citizenship after 5 years and jumping through a lot of arbitrary hoops.

If you are applying based on marriage you do not need to go via the PR route. I am not very athletic either so they let me off without jumping through hoops. I went through the process that others followed. It is quite straightforward and the documents you need to provide are not difficult to put together. Did everything myself without any need to hire someone to help. The only thing that I found rather pointless was reserving a Thai first and family name when you do not need to use them.

[scorecard]

Retirees are discriminated against in this regard.

Can you name any country that easily / even at all, quickly and easily grants citizenship to retirees from other countries? I don't know any but correct me if I'm wrong.

There is also a good argument that people who have contributed to the development etc., of Thailand should have some priority.

Yes I can name one that I know Its Panama after 5 years they will give you residency my Know it all

The thread was about granting citizenship not about granting residency.

No I don't know it all and I didn't claim to know it all, and I said that clearly in my original post.

[arithai12]

Two important points not yet mentioned in this thread

-what is the cost of obtaining PR? I recall 200,000 Baht. If the main advantage is never to bother again with visas, well that's a lot of visas.

-citizenship: obtaining a Thai passport might mean, in many cases, giving up your native one. I think that merits serious consideration.

[ubonjoe]

Two important points not yet mentioned in this thread

-what is the cost of obtaining PR? I recall 200,000 Baht. If the main advantage is never to bother again with visas, well that's a lot of visas.

-citizenship: obtaining a Thai passport might mean, in many cases, giving up your native one. I think that merits serious consideration.

You do not have to give up your other nationality unless your home country does not allow dual nationalities..I don't think there are all that many that don't allow it.

[Bredbury Blue]

The OP posted "I recall a thread a while back which seemed to have the conclusion that if you were going to apply for residency why not go the citizenship route. It would be good to get thoughts from those who have done either. I am married to a Thai & have many consecutive 1 year extension of stay so should satisfy some criteria for both.".

I read the thread with interest as I'm married to a thai, on a 'O' marriage annual extension of stay, and in my 3rd decade of working here, but I didn't see the answer to the OPs question in the thread - is it better to go for citizenship over residency?

Can anybody advise?